NM's birthday

[English]

I'll try to get this across right.  Yesterday NM called to say that step-sis had her baby girl.  She went on to say that the baby was born on HER BIRTHDAY.  The way she said it made it all about her. I had to ask how they are both doing.  All she wanted to say is that she was born on HER BIRTHDAY.  This step-sis only became part of the family a few years ago when NM married NSF, so NM has a minimal connection with her.  She's only seen her a couple of times.    She turned this wonderful occassion around and made it about her.  Then she proceeded to read my mind and tell me she was going to hang up because she KNEW I was busy.  As I'm going along with my learning, I'm seeing N in every little thing she does.

[bearwithme]

I'll try to get this across right.  Yesterday NM called to say that step-sis had her baby girl.  She went on to say that the baby was born on HER BIRTHDAY.  The way she said it made it all about her. I had to ask how they are both doing.  All she wanted to say is that she was born on HER BIRTHDAY.  This step-sis only became part of the family a few years ago when NM married NSF, so NM has a minimal connection with her.  She's only seen her a couple of times.    She turned this wonderful occassion around and made it about her.  Then she proceeded to read my mind and tell me she was going to hang up because she KNEW I was busy.  As I'm going along with my learning, I'm seeing N in every little thing she does.

Good gracious.  N's are all the same, especially the Nmoms.  When I had my daughter 2 years ago, my Nmom was mad that my dad's wife (my step-mom) would be there at the hospital with everyone else.  My Nmom kept saying "why does SHE get to be at the hospital? She's not the REAL grandma!!" 

You'll get a kick out this:

When my Nmom, my dad and his wife entered the room to see the baby for the first time, I had my baby in my arms literally 30 minutes after giving birth, well, my Nmom nudged my step-mom out of the way and kept saying over and over again, "Oh look, the baby recognizes ME, she recognizes my voice...look at the baby looking at her grandma....the baby totally knows MY voice!!"  When my step-mom went to hold my baby, she kept saying that the baby was looking over at her and wanted her grandma.   And you know what, Nmom never said congratulations honey, she's beautiful or I'm so proud of the both of you...what a beautiful child, etc.  She made it all about her.  I wished I could have kicked her out of the room.

How delusional to think that my own child recognizes HER N VOICE and was looking right at her??!!  I'm still outraged about this!!  What's so hard about saying, "Honey, I love you and you have a beautiful, healthy baby girl, I couldn't be a more proud grandmother?"  This was the ultimate dissappointment for me.  I have no mother and this saddens me greatly on a daily basis.

[Dreamedeeri]

Awwwww. (((((English))))) ((((BWM))))

Yuck. I can't imagine how horrible that must felt. Well, OK, I can imagine just a little.

[bearwithme]

thanks for the sympathy Kathleen.

You know, for what it's worth, I like to just come here to write my stories. I love to tell them and I wished we were face to face so that I could see everyone's reactions as I tell stories of my Nmom.  Sometimes I thrive on telling someone "what happened to me."  Sometimes it drives my day....kind of like a gossip thing but not really.  When I was going to therapy, it was like a drug for me.  I couldn't wait until my next session with my T to tell him how I feel and what happened with my Nmom and the zillions of questions I had. 

I would sit and go from subject to subject in front of him just ranting, crying, ranting, crying and breaking down.  Strangely, it felt sssooooooooooo gooooooodddd!!!!

I asked my T why was it that I couldn't wait to come to his office to talk the paint off the walls?  His reply was this:

"Bear you have a story to tell.  You have to get it out into the world and tell someone what happened to you because what happened to you was atrocious and remains unjustified.  Like a crime someone has committed to you, you want justice, it is natural to want justice for it.  Also you have been silenced.  Your pain was silenced for so long and you were not allowed to 'feel' anything but your Nmom's feelings so now that you can 'feel' for yourself, you MUST experience every emotion that you suppressed or held in private because it is detrimental to your emotional as well as physical health.  You were abused. Period. You were never allowed to tell your story, whether it was you were having a bad day with your friends or you were hurt by what your Nmom was doing/saying to you...."

He went on to say more but I'll stop at that.  We all have stories to tell and I love hearing each and every one of yours.

[Dreamedeeri]

My former T said that it was good to talk about these things that hurt us because bringing them to light helps us heal. It's as if talking about painful things gives them less power over us. I imagine my words and an image of the incident floating up and just disappearing like smoke. Each time we tell others our story, it makes us a little lighter. 

[bearwithme]

My former T said that it was good to talk about these things that hurt us because bringing them to light helps us heal. It's as if talking about painful things gives them less power over us. I imagine my words and an image of the incident floating up and just disappearing like smoke. Each time we tell others our story, it makes us a little lighter. 

Brilliant!  I must be really heavy because I have a lot to say!!!!  LOL!!!

Thanks for listening to everyone out there!!

Bear

[Hopalong]

I had a friend who "owned" her grandchildren. Started a huge fight with her D before the baby was even born because my friend wanted the new baby named after her own mother (because that would be healing for my friend, it was meaningful to her because of two things: cultural continuity, and her own forgiveness of her abusive mother). I understood her reasons. But I was intensely uncomfortable about her not "getting" her adult daughter's choice NOT to name her newborn after the deceased grandmother. My friend made it a huge battle and huge drama and seriously, doesn't seem to love the new little one (who was given the "wrong" name) like the older child.

She never, ever recognized her daughter and SIL's right to name their own child. I couldn't get that even though she kept telling me it was cultural. I thought it was fairly horrible.

I have always been spooked by a parent who, with BOTH parents sitting in a group, would go on and on about "my child..."

I always think, what about your H or W? Sitting right there? Can't you change your pronoun and acknowledge you BOTH have a child?

Ewww.

Squicks me out.

Hops

[English]

NM called yesterday, but I had already talked to her once this week, so I didn't pick up.  When she talked on the answering machine, she had annoyed tone to her voice. She sounded exasperated with me.  All she said is, "Hi, it's Mom, I'll talk to you later. Bye."  It's amazing how she can make me feel guilty just by the tone of her voice.  I hate that.

[Ami]

NM called yesterday, but I had already talked to her once this week, so I didn't pick up.  When she talked on the answering machine, she had annoyed tone to her voice. She sounded exasperated with me.  All she said is, "Hi, it's Mom, I'll talk to you later. Bye."  It's amazing how she can make me feel guilty just by the tone of her voice.  I hate that.

Dear ((English)))
  From my experience with an NM, healing is a marathon ,not a sprint. You are just at the beginning stages of facing it. This may be the hardest part b/c we want a good ,loving M and donot want to give up that dream.
 I think you are doing really well in beginning to face the truth about your NM.
 Keep writing and sharing                         xxoo  Ami

[English]

What do you think?  Let me give you some background before I discuss the phone conversation with NM.
1.  I had lap band surgery in April for weight loss.  I also have a long history of severe depressions.  Although haven't had any in years.  But I know the feeling including the suicidal ones.  It's horrible.
2.  Because I had lap band surgery in April, NM decided to do it this August.  Everyone advised her against it, except the surgeon.
3.  She has only been occassionally taking her meds for depression because she has trouble swallowing them through the lap band.
4.  I manage to do it by talking to doctors/pharmacists and breaking the ones that I can break.  No problems.

She called me at work yesterday trying to explain that she hasn't been taking her meds because of the lap band.  Then she started crying; she was obviously depressed.  I don't remember what all she said.

I just kept telling her, "You'll be all right. You'll be all right."  I didn't have the opportunity being at work and all to ask her the parenting questions I thought I should ask her. "Have you talked to your psychiatrist?"  "Did you read on the paperwork that lap band can cause depression?"  I feel like I SHOULD parent her; take her by the hand.  Tell her what she should do to remedy the situation.

Well I decided NOT to be her parent.  She only listens a small amount of the time.  She has a husband.  She is 69 year old adult.  So all I said was that she would be OK.  My problem is: I'm trying not to feel guilty in advance if something happens to her, i.e., suicide or overdose.  I'm tempted on one hand to jump in and tell her what to do and on the other hand to let her solve her own problem. 

I guess I'm asking advice if this was the right thing to do.  Not doing anything that is. I don't really CARE what happens to her, but I'm afraid of the guilt if something does. And BOY do I sympathize on having depression, but she has to take responsiibility for herself, right?
 

[Hopalong]

Hi English,
Could you call a social worker in her area and ask if there's some way an agency might reach out to her? Or a church?

I am sorry. Pain is pain, and Ns do feel it too...it's also painful for Nsurvivors to feel indifferent yet that's what helps us survive.

Hops

[HeartofPilgrimage]

English,

I think that as long as she is "in her right mind" (meaning not demented or psychotic), an adult has to take responsibility for helping themselves. You cannot force her to take her pills or to figure out how to get the meds in her system. She has to deal with it like you did. We all have to decide that we are not going to roll over and let depression have us. People that have not decided to fight it with everything they've got --- well, nobody can force them to fight.

[bearwithme]

((((English)))) How are things going?

I know the guilt you feel. Or felt.  I decided to help my mom because of guilt and although I don't regret helping her,  I think it was a waste of my time and kindheartedness.  I was in a similar situation when my Nmom had to have gallbladder surgery on a nearly emergency basis.  She cried to me on the phone that she had nobody to stand by her bedside and that she was really scared.  She had no one to take her to surgery or take her home, etc.  I was up for a promotion at work and had to be reviewed that week and couldn't take the time off.  But what did I go and do??  I took the time off and helped my mom.  I stood my her bedside and watched over her, took her home, and helped her heal for 2 days because I felt so damn guilty with her crying and in pain.

Narcissists quickly go back to the way things were when they aren't in need.  My Nmom's history of calling me a "bad daughter" made me do this.  My T said that subconsciously I wanted her to "see me" as a good daughter and the guilt of not helping her comes from just being a good person alltogether independent from the Narcissist; knowing what is right and what is wrong and having true compassion is a trait not inherited from the N.  I did this to show her what I truly am: "a good daughter."  Like I had to convince myself of this one last time.

Nmom doesn't remember the good thing I did, nor my sacrifice of getting a promotion at the time I deserved it.  She never once said anything about it.  In fact, one year later, she insulted me and my husband and told me I was ripping her off each time she took care of my daughter (her granddaughter), that I didn't pay her enough money for babysitting.

Good luck English.  I hope you make it through this.  Your NM will have to use her own life skills and wisdom to take care of herself.  The compassion you feel is humane and worth acknowledging.  But that's it.

[English]

Thanks for your advice everyone.  She actually solved her problem by herself without my help.  She went back to the Dr. and is feeling better.  Then she called me and wanted me to come over because she bought me a present.  She does things like that all the time to manipulate me into seeing her. I told her I couldn't come over.  I'm trying to make it to Thanksgiving without seeing her, but I have a feeling she'll guilt me (or I'll guilt myself) into seeing her before that. 

I have bought three books about narcissists.  Now it's time to start doing the exercises in them.  I haven't done any on the pretext that I should read them first.  But now it's time to start the healing process.  I'm just afraid of the pain.  I'll just take really small baby steps.  (although babies fall down a lot, but they do get back up.)  As part of my process, I've just been observing NM's behavior to see all the narcissistic traits. All her manipulations, feeling sorry for herself...I'm in the process of accepting that she is NM.  That she doesn't actually love me; but she loves who she wants me to be, who she thinks I am. 

I talked to her yesterday, so I won't be answering her phone calls this weekend. 

[bearwithme]

Glad to hear that English!

I need to practice the exercises myself.  What books did you get?  I always thought of what my Nmom would think of she came over my house to see a few books on Narcissism laying about!  I'd like to try that experiment.....