Author Topic: Relationship/s  (Read 96080 times)

Meh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2726
Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #585 on: September 12, 2020, 07:07:43 PM »
SM was the first serious relationship that lasted longer than a few months in many years. (One year, five months.)

I mean I am glad for you Hops, even imperfect romance is very nice, even the temporary kind. It's worth something for sure.

It's awesome that you are using a dating site for older people, dating sites are becoming ubiquitous to our society. I wonder what kind of sociology/psychology books people have written about dating sites, I don't have time to read them, maybe another day.

Still it makes me wonder how the process of shopping online for a person has changed dating because that's what dating sites remind me of.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2020, 07:43:51 PM by Scab Mite »

Hopalong

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13474
Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #586 on: September 12, 2020, 07:49:52 PM »
M used to joke that he "found me in a catalog."

Already have a new connection (likely friend) that will be fun. He asked if I'd like to meet.

Woo hoo! We'll see each others' foreheads! So exciting.

No details yet, won't be for a few weeks.

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Twoapenny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3575
  • Becoming
Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #587 on: September 14, 2020, 06:34:02 AM »
Have you and M had any contact at all, Hopsie, or did you both stick to the no contact thing?  I'm glad you've got man friend and maybe man date on the go as well, it is nice to have the social contact (albeit distanced) and to have possibilities in front of you, I think. 

I do get what you're saying about the obsessive thing with food.  I have a couple of friends like that and they're lovely, I love them to bits, but food is on their mind literally all the time - what they ate, where they're eating next, how it will be cooked, which wine to have with it.  They are genuinely making a two hundred mile round trip to go to a restaurant they both like.  It's a level of interest that I can't quite get my head around and I find difficult to enjoy all the time.  I think other people's interests can be tiring if they're not your interests as well (or at least not in the same way.  I do enjoy a nice meal but for me it doesn't go much beyond, "that was lovely - thanks").

sKePTiKal

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5299
Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #588 on: September 14, 2020, 07:42:38 AM »
Hops, one thing about distance relationships I'm excruciatingly aware of... (for a number of reasons)...

is the mind's tendencies to fill in the blanks; use my own imagination to "create" the other person, how we'll be together, what we might DO together... etc. A certain amount of this is simply being interested in the other; is fun & even healthy. I think it is important to check that against a face to face experience, and not in a compressed, fleeting, time-space. Some people simply exude some energies - being themselves - that I can only bear a short amount of time. It would drive me batty in the long haul.

While it's kinda fun to discover things about another person - I don't want to have to guess what the chocolate's filling is THIS time, every time I connect. I like stability & consistency. Predictability. Might sound boring, but even consistent people have their "wild hair" moments; just not as often.

Another thing, is to be completely open - but put part of one's brain into observer mode - when you do have those face to face encounters. Be honest with yourself, about how you feel about x, y, or z in the other person. I think you were doing that with M, after the first couple of "flags" showed up, so I know you got that.

I found my imagination couldn't hold a candle to the real live B, and how I felt, and and what I observed in real life.
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Hopalong

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13474
Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #589 on: September 14, 2020, 09:56:28 AM »
A couple times, Tupp. He sent me two informational things on Covid and a photo essay about dogs (added that "he'd agonized for a week" over sending that), and I sent him a pic and video of a very large bear crossing the intersection close to his house where he often walks, captioning it "your new neighbor." We each were in a way trying to take care of the other. His dog-pix was different, an attempt to rekindle memories/feelings, but I didn't reply so there was no further back and forth. Slippery slope. Generally, he's respected my boundary.

Amber, couldn't agree with you more. Years ago when I absolutely hit bottom with failed relationships, the #1 cause was that I'd fantasized my brains out about someone I'd only been with a short while, or about what I wanted to happen in future with someone ditto, and became nearly deluded with hopes and fantasy. It was out of great loneliness (living with Nmom) and also an imagination on steroids. And my capacity to rely on not-in-person communications like emails (being a writer) to build the dream. NOT good for me. I was not maturely reckoning with different factors I should have, from the get go.

Since that time I became pretty fierce about forcing myself to embrace, value and respect reality. Reality is my friend became a personal mantra. Likewise, emotional availability and reciprocity.

Your outcome with Buck is one to dream of, but not in my situation something to "expect" or "make happen." As you say, I need to meet and build in the real, observe and enjoy. But first of all, always, observe.

Had a first chat on the phone with the fellow who lives 45 minutes away (in a gorgeous old house, not that I Googled him and even his ex, of course). He's friendly and we enjoyed it. We have a lot in common so he's going to be fun to meet as friends regardless, which we'll do at a winery or brewery halfway in a few weeks (I'm limping and in pain and want to feel better before we do).

He's a "B" too--a storyteller and musician. (Did things professionally similar to my early Poet in the Schools stuff, ran a contra dance program and a traditional music radio show that was well known. Think, fiddle. Still does music gigs.) Was married twice before and is separated from his third wife--I hadn't spotted that. I said I'm not judging but may I ask, were you involved with Wife #2 before the divorce from Wife #1? He said yes, that's what happened, and then Wife #2 years later left him for someone else. I told him his karma was repaired. Red flag down for his honesty, but back up for passive voice (it "happened" rather than "I chose to...").

I lied about not judging because part of me does, but busting myself for blatant hypocrisy corrects me most of the time. During my first marriage when I was so lonely and unhappy I thought I'd break, I had a one night (well, one hour) stupid empty fling with a married man I'd become fixated on at work, who was moving out of state the next day. I felt terribly guilty and confessed. My husband forgave me pretty quickly; on some level he knew he was neglecting me and our child, but I didn't forgive myself for a long time. Much later during the years I lived with my mother, I was working in California half of each month and fell in love with my married boss (who told me his marriage was dead, affectionless, "staying just for the kids" etc.). Again, physically, it was a brief and unsatisfying fling on that level. But I remained in love with him for many wasted years because we were soulmates in ways. Very painful and pointless in the long run. It took place largely in extraordinary correspondence.

I think infidelity happens because we aren't ready either to face facts about our own existing marriage and act responsibly to resolve it one way or another, or if single, we aren't ready to be with a person who is completely free to choose us. Now, I normally do not meet or date anyone who is only separated, not divorced, so I'm a little surprised I am looking forward to meeting this B person. I think it's because of Covid, as I'm so sick of isolation. And he does sound like friend material. He's a good talker. I had come from a depressing two-hour discussion group that got very dark and apocalyptic about politics and he told me a story to cheer me up. It was a long involved ridiculous tale about a man who adopted a centipede. I could see how he did this for schools, other groups and radio and it made me laugh. We also knew a musician in common and had some overlap that way.

Not a whole lot to laugh about these days, so that was nice. BUT...it's against my "rules" so it will be important to me when we meet-at-eight-feet, to be sure that I say to him: "I don't normally meet anyone new on purpose who isn't fully legally free." And I made sure to say on the phone "find new friends" etc. I didn't have trouble understanding his reasoning, I just don't think it's wise. He said the way he looks at it is he won't get the divorce unless "something happens" and there's a reason to. That's his call, maybe he doesn't want to spend the money on it. Then again, how does his ex view it? Since he sees his ex often as they still co-own another property (she lives there and he fixes it up)...I think that's an "emotionally unsafe" position for a new woman in his life, should love happen.

She gets to wait around to see if he reciprocates, but also risks investing a lot of time and feeling in someone who's in limbo and hasn't made a clear decision or isn't inclined to. She could thus if she's not careful invest a lot of time and feeling and remain uncertain and unsure a lot longer than necessary. In that sense I agreed with M, who was always talking about life being too short especially at our age.

So for now, I'm just looking forward to a fun afternoon meet with a fun fellow. But no fantasies. If there's an obvious or potential connection between us that's obvious right away, I'll make sure to say out loud right away: "This has been fun but for my own sake, I won't make plans to see you again until you are legally free. I hope we might connect again once you're free to move on." (My guess is there are financial reasons it hasn't happened so far, his 1920 house would be a money pit.)

Even when you defy them or fail, being raised with rigid morals never quite leaves, I think. Maybe the "B" one-date plan is an experiment with seeing if there's a middle ground I could live with. But I'm too vulnerable to mess about. He's fairly recently separated and probably online because he's lonely like me. At least he didn't lie about it.

Thots?

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8349
Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #590 on: September 14, 2020, 11:48:48 AM »
Oh, Hops.

I don't know.  I dated my B during his divorce, which dragged on and on.  Hi finally gave his ex everything to move on, and start again.  I ended up regretting the time I wasted waiting for the divorce to be final. In a way....my time with him feels like I was suspended in amazing energy, emotional safety, reciprocal care and interest in each other and outside activities....looking back, it really feels like a safe bubble I thrived in.  I miss it. 

If you have a true, safe connection with someone....it can be precious.  If you believe you do, but don't, it can be devastating, IME.

It can't be built by one person, IME.

I respect honesty too, but I have to balance it out with my values.  That means I'm better off IF I file honest people according to my values, even though they express desire to change or are honest to the point I over value their honesty and become.....
I have to watch my codependent tendencies is maybe what I mean.

At some point their honesty and my belief system intersect and....maybe something doesn't have to give.  Maybe people can be filed in my heart correctly, despite the honesty I value so much...maybe too much.

I'm not saying honesty is always manipulation when someone admits to cheating, being married, etc.  I'm saying....typically....what someone is doing when we meet them is what they'll be doing in relationship with us.  Not everyone requires monogamy either.

No judgment about that, only my own need for clarity and preference for honesty, no matter what that is. 

I can respect honesty without rewarding it with trust.  I can appreciate honesty without extending vulnerability.  I can hear someone's truth without judging it, even if it goes against my world views. 

What you build with new friends can take shapes and forms you aren't familiar with.  You can say NO and mean it, defend it and not listen to wrangling and reasons to change your hard NO, rather than waste time and energy giving attention to someone trying to change your mind.

You deserve respect for your honesty too.  You deserve to be accepted for who you are, just as you extend that to others, IME.

I guess that's important to remember....
You're not an apple on a tree to be picked by a man.  My mother said that to me while I wrestled with dating a divorcing man during my own divorce.....B.

Looking back, my B was right....it was OK to date and move forward with plans and connection.....even if it was complicated.  It was also amazing and rare and worth investing in.....in that case.

No connection with other is worth dishonoring connection with self, IME. 

You posted about keeping imagination out of relationship....and I agree that's good to be mindful of.

Enjoying music and friend connection with a new person sounds fun and reciprocal with this person, right now. 

I don't imagine all connection has to be between single people.  As long as everyone has a realistic view of what's happening, or not happening.....connection can be many very good different things, imo.

Maybe you have a new best friend in this person? Maybe this person offers the chance to learn hard lessons that expand your vision and understanding? Maybe there will be romance? 

Whatever happens, be honest
with
yourself.  That's the most important connection.

Good on' ya, Hops, for seeking out more if what you want.

Lighter
P.S.  I'm pecking out posts with one finger.  No time to edit.
















Hopalong

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13474
Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #591 on: September 14, 2020, 03:09:59 PM »
Thank you, Lighter.
That was a wonderful, comprehensive response with many wise remarks in it. I really appreciate it. Especially:

Quote
regretting the time I wasted waiting for the divorce to be final

Quote
are honest to the point I over value their honesty and become.....
I have to watch my codependent tendencies

Quote
what someone is doing when we meet them is what they'll be doing in relationship with us.  Not everyone requires monogamy....

[I definitely do. I've required it of myself for decades now, and also require it of any new partner. I'm too old to and have no desire to play games OR to offer myself up for unnecessary hurt. Also have a hard rule that I have zero right to ever again be an undermining factor in another woman's marriage, no matter what her man might say about her. Been there, done that 20 years ago. It was wrong then and I believe it would be wrong again. I never had a single doubt about M in that regard, nor myself. With someone new? Either we work together to reach a goal of committed monogamy, or we don't. Clarity.]

....and the most significant for me:

Quote
I can respect honesty without rewarding it with trust.  I can appreciate honesty without extending vulnerability.


The last one matters most to me because it returns squarely to making a CHOICE. Returning the responsibility for my experience to me, where it belongs. Good warning and well put.

I'm going to just wait and see if he follows up about the meet in a couple weeks. If he doesn't I won't mind and if he does, I'll get myself really clear before, during and after. Firm friend zone is the most likely outcome.

Thanks again!

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

sKePTiKal

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5299
Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #592 on: September 14, 2020, 03:34:54 PM »
I highly recommend the "friend zone" for a time, Hops... given some details about his situation. To start with for a few months at least. You can reassess the potential for "friends with benefits" level later. And think about how risky it might be to invest emotionally with him... perhaps he'll talk about how his current situation is for him, emotionally and that would give you a good insight into what his relationship style is... before you move into one with him. If he's already brought that situation up, then I would consider it fair game to inquire more about it. Full disclosure and all that.
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

lighter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8349
Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #593 on: September 14, 2020, 04:58:58 PM »
You're welcome, Hopsy.

Whatever happens, find the joy in it. 

I trust you'll figure this out and continue connecting with others too.

You aren't married.  Go ahead.... Chat your heart out!

You just might find the guy who moves your floor AND gives you all the space you require.  The guy who shares your humor and cares about your day.

BTW autonomy and independence are normal and human and not aberrant things, IME. 

Lighter


Hopalong

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13474
Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #594 on: September 15, 2020, 06:00:02 PM »
"...moves your floor" is a great image, but the one that melts my heart is "shares your humor and cares about your day..." is even better!

I find this expert really absorbing. So smart and articulates things so fluidly. Also just good to listen to:

Dr. Ramani Durvasula (particularly her medcircle.com series on narcissism). She spots the specific thing about someone not asking questions...
Here's one example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ska9CXcuI8

Fwiw...

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Hopalong

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13474
Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #595 on: September 27, 2020, 01:40:50 AM »
Local Zoom quirky guy ended our last Zoom yak with an invite to come sit in his yard, which I happily accepted. He lives 5 minutes from me, a block from the house I grew up in. VERY familiar area.

I'm looking forward to that. He might possibly become a "pod friend" since he seems responsible/serious about Covid. Sure could make winter more fun, and I hope I find another woman or man friend who might be able to meet my paranoid standards.

Meanwhile, to avoid being invited to his house, I sent M a very short email asking if he'd like to meet at a close-in winery on Oct. 10th, which I'd enjoy if he's up for it. Glad I did that and we'll see what happens.

Meanwhile also, I have a LOT going on suddenly around church things...signed up for two workshops (everything's still online) and have had some good correspondence with folks. Friends are also doing a distanced outdoor 80th bday celebration for a woman in my Covenant Group. We're wobbly about attending as it could be up to 20 people but I know that property and there's loads of room to spread out. Will decide later.

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8349
Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #596 on: September 27, 2020, 11:45:05 PM »
All that new connection and it's fall!

I just love fall; )

Lighter

Hopalong

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13474
Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #597 on: September 28, 2020, 08:06:27 AM »
Had a fun actual date yesterday out in a small town in/beside the mountains, which is sorta halfway between his town and mine. Storyteller man is bright, energetic, creative and quite the talker. I think he's craving attention and a partner. So far he doesn't communicate much (email, calls) so I'll wait and see. But we had a good time together. He wanted to hug me when we parted and it was my first non-M hug in a long time. I felt clunky about it (as well as mushy, physically--Covid gain).

We first agreed to meet at a popular brewery (again in mtns) and yikes, it was PACKED with younguns (most in masks) for Octoberfest...so we agreed to go down the road, found a quiet restaurant with a spacious open tent and ate there and drank a couple beers. Yakkity yak. It was really a nice diversion in a nice place.

He'd definitely be a compatible friend and I hope to hear from him again. If not, god bless, on to the next, keep the line moving!

My backyard date with Quirk is this Saturday afternoon. Super casual, will be more of us talking but in the other's presence. We'll be 8 feet apart so can shed masks. I'm going to bring my own drink and snack so no contact, etc. Such a weird time. I know he's enjoying getting to know me, and likewise. Though what now look like quirks might be too much for a more serious relationship. (He has no car and goes everywhere by bike or bus, but isn't taking the bus now due to Covid. So for him to come to my place I'll need to fetch him--he said he'd sit in the back seat, wear two masks, and we could leave the windows open. That sounded considerate and safe, I think; he's just five minutes away.)

But I've got to keep an eye on my renewed eagerness to mingle because the fall surge in cases marches on. The students are back in town with predictable results. Many locals are pissed at the Univ. for re-opening. But that's for the other thread.

Haven't heard a reply from M yet and am curious. If he says Yes I'll be happy to see him. If he says No in a way I'll be happy for him; it'll mean he's taking care of himself by recognizing he's not able to make the shift. I'm pretty sure I can but wouldn't want to at his expense.

That's my R-report!

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Twoapenny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3575
  • Becoming
Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #598 on: September 28, 2020, 09:10:28 AM »
That sounds great, Hops, what a nice afternoon!  Is Quirk that one that you just got chatting to online and wasn't one you were expecting to be anything other than a friend?  Just want to make sure I've got things straight in my head.

It's difficult, but as this illness is likely to be with us for a long time yet, I think there needs to be a balance between risk of the virus and risk of everything else from not seeing anyone, no physical contact and so on.  It sounds to me like safe, distanced, masked up get togethers are a good balance between the two.  Nothing will be risk free but then of course, nothing is anyway.  Numbers here are high, it seems, although fatality rates much, much lower (it seems cancer has taken the top spot back now).  So I think you're sensible to do safe dates and it sounds lovely that you had a nice time - it's just nice having something to plan for, if nothing else.  Yay! xx

Hopalong

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13474
Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #599 on: September 28, 2020, 03:25:59 PM »
Thanks, ((((Tupp)))). I've been having fun!

Quirk is the Zoom-buddy I met on a neighborhood website, and we've been having lively long conversations every week or so. He's odd (as am I in my way), generally introverted, super bright and a great conversationalist. I enjoy him. Friend zone so far and that's fine with me. He's been widowed 2 years but still clearly affected and I'm sure we're both lonesome. We connect well and communicate well so it's just a happy connection. No fantasies so far but one never knows. I doubt we'd make great mates as he often has a "critical spirit" approach to other people he tells me about (which I think is just compensation for some social awkwardness).

Storyteller is the actual-date guy from a town 45 minutes away. Lots in common (he gets my having taught poetry in schools off a federal grant). He's a musician, very creative and made an actual career out of radio and music things. Fun to be with and talk to, but not super "present" except for his enjoyment of a delighted listener. Likely just friends and that's just fine by me. Hope I'll see him again. No angst about it.

M hasn't responded yet to my invite to meet for our plan to have a conversation in early October. That's notable because he was such a ready and prolific emailer. So he's dealing with his own feelings. I imagine he might NOT be able to be friends after all and if that's the case I understand entirely and hope he decides what's right for him.

hugs
Hops
« Last Edit: September 28, 2020, 03:30:29 PM by Hopalong »
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."