Knew this would happen. Really need advice...

[KayZee]

So I've been trying to work up the strength and coherence to write this...The whole thing just makes me feel so trapped and exhausted...

I've been trying to keep NM at bay for the past couple of months. Every week or so she'd tell me (not ask, mind you, and usually with one day's notice) that she was going to come visit.  And I kept responding, "No. No. No. It's not a good time.  DH and I are under really stressful deadlines.  I'll let you know when we're free to meet up.  We for sure can't do it until late October.  And even then, we will meet you halfway between our house and yours (about 1.5 hrs drive for both of us)."  She'd then sulk or gossip about me to other family, saying I refused to let her see her grand kids even though I hadn't said 'no,' I'd simply said 'not now' because we are over-burdened with work and overtired with the kids' schedule.

Blah blah blah, she pulls the same thing with Skype, texting me to say, "Skype with me right now!"  And I had to say, "Sorry.  We can't now.  We have friends visiting for the weekend.  But we can Skype you later in the week."  I text her later in the week to see if she is free to Skype and she totally ignores me.  The trend being: if NM can't have what she wants the minute she wants it, she grows angry and dismissive.  It is insane to think a family of four people (with a baby on the way) can drop everything for you at a moment's notice.

SO HERE'S THE REAL ISSUE: NM crashed in on DH and I yesterday.  Drove over three hours to our house and arrived totally unannounced, ruining our plans for the afternoon.  I knew she was going to do this eventually.  I've been sensing it for months.  And I thought I was prepared; I always imagined I would go outside and ask her to leave. 

But in the moment, I couldn't. I just froze, shut down I was so shocked and let NM and Enabling D inside. There was also this issue: I felt like it was a horrible head game, a set-up.  Like I couldn't ask them to leave because if I did I would look like I was the selfish, over-reactive, hateful one.  Because it was all just "so innocent" and "loving."  And who turns away "sweet old grandparents" who just want to "see their grandkids" and coming bearing a truckload of Trojan Horse presents?  NM did not even acknowledge that she had turned up unannounced after explicitly being told it was not a good time.

When NM showed up, I felt this message: I OWN YOU. I WILL DO WHATEVER I PLEASE AND TROUNCE ON WHATEVER BOUNDARIES YOU PUT UP.  YOU CAN'T ESCAPE ME. And even worse, I felt the deviousness of it all.  The gas lighting bit: IF YOU SAY NO TO ME, I WILL MAKE YOU LOOK LIKE THE BAD GUY. I WILL TURN EVERYONE AGAINST YOU.

If I wasn't pregnant, and if I didn't have two small children I love more than life itself, I swear I would have done something terribly self-harm-y after NM left. I felt filled with despair and self-hatred.  I really wanted, for the first time in years, to drink myself into a black out or slice up my arms.  I felt like NM dumped all this hatred and darkness on my door, but at the same time, it was all disguised in this "who-me? I'm-just-a-thoughtful-grandparent" act.  It was gaslighting on steroids.  And it worked.  It made me feel utterly insane and self-loathing.

To make matters worse, DH and I got into a horrible fight after they left.  This always happens when we see my parents.  But I was so upset.  I think, because I felt so gaslighted and mixed up, I wanted/needed to hear someone else confirm that what NM did was messed-up, a perverse power play.  (I had been on the phone before that with an uncle NM had got to and told all sorts of lies about how I won't let her see the grandkids but "let my in-laws drop in (FROM F-ING BRITAIN) at a moment's notice (IMPOSSIBLE!)." 

Anyway, DH told me the worst thing: That he talks about my mother with me every freaking day and he's sick of it.  And that I make every small thing she does into something sinister.  Well that just about made me lose my mind.  NM has turned everyone in my FOO against me already.  And the thought that I have to stuff my feelings with my husband when I already feel so family-less and alone...it was too much.  He's since said he was just tired, the weird unexpected visit was too exhausting...He wants me to know I can talk to him about anything.  But it still hurts.  Still makes me feel like NM can even play and manipulate him, come between us.

The thing I really need advice with is this...  I feel I need to put a calm warning in writing to both parents (that my NM can't lie or exaggerate anything to my father).  I'm thinking I need to say something like, "Thanks for the gifts. It was good to see you? (Even though it wasn't.)  But in the future, DH and I can't do any surprised or unannounced visits." And maybe also something like, "If you turn up here uninvited, we will have to turn you away?"  Does anyone have any advice about how to word this stuff?  Have any of you written a letter like this before? 

I got four hours of sleep last night because I was so upset, angry and stressed out.  Who does this to someone who is third-trimester pregnant?  I feel like I'm treading water as it is--trying to finish a big project, be the sole breadwinner and running around after two toddlers--but I feel like NM is constantly trying to sink me.  I don't have the time or energy for her head games.  I feel totally powerless.  And pretty alone.

thanks for reading,
Kay x

[BonesMS]

(((((((((((((((Kay-Zee)))))))))))))))))))))

I tend to become blunt and rude whenever anyone FORCES an UNINVITED visit on me!  I don't know how to word something "diplomatically" to a !@#$ who REFUSED to HEAR me after I had already said NO! 

Bones

[Twoapenny]

Hi Kay.  I tried to write a reply last night but I'd had a couple of glasses of wine and I couldn't get my words out

Firstly, I wanted to say that you are not on your own, however much it feels like it at times.  Remember that when things get tough xx

Secondly, I think your mum will bad mouth you whatever the situation, whatever you do.  My feeling is, if I'm going to get bad mouthed I'd rather get bad mouthed for doing something that is healthy for me than bad mouthed for anything (everything) else.  It takes courage, and it isn't nice to know you are being slagged off, but boundaries are there for you, not for anyone else and anyone who doesn't respect them doesn't deserve time/space/energy from you.  It's easier said than done (and I still have trouble with boundaries) but you are doing this for the right reason and is does get easier with practise.

I think writing a letter is a good idea but.......................be prepared for them to ignore it!  Perhaps look at it from your own perspective, make writing the letter about what you feel is right rather than what you hope their response will be.  So, being the normal person that you are, you want to put your cards on the table calmly and let everyone know what the situation is.  I think that can help (you) and I think the wording you've suggested is pretty much spot on.  I'd be inclined to think that she won't respect what you want though, so plan B will be turning them away if/when they turn up again.

You can go for the down key approach (oh!  We're just on our way out.  You should have called, what a wasted journey for you, bye!) as you bundle everyone into the car and vanish.  It's slightly easier than outright confrontation but has the disadvantage that you still disrupt all your plans and they might be there when you get back, or decide to stay nearby and turn up again in the morning.

You can, as Bonesie suggests, be really rude   I've really let rip at my mum before and I know others have.  It gave me a release that I still can't quite put into words but............you have your kiddies and if they're there you might not want to do that in front of them.

So your third option would be next time to say "Hi.  I've already said it's not okay to turn up unannounced.  It isn't convenient.  You need to go home."  or however it feels best for you to word it.  And then go in and shut the door and just carry on like they aren't there.

It is incredibly hard, Kay, any you'll probably feel guilty and like the worst person in the world for doing it but, to be honest, if they're daft enough to do a three hour drive on the off chance that you're going to be home and available then that's down to them.  I don't think there is a nice, easy way to distance yourself from difficult family, there are mind games, emotional manipulation issues and that horrible tug between wanting a family and not wanting the one you have!

And I do understand the way you feel about your hubby saying he's fed up with it all, I've been on both sides of the fence and it's so tough for everyone involved.  Is he in your camp on this one?  Does he want to stop them coming over like this as well?  Perhaps the two of you, on the lawn together saying the same thing next time she comes over might help?  Some people find a time limit to talking about it helps - ten minutes a day and then you get on with something else?  Boundaries again - don't let her keep taking up your time, your head space, your relationship with your hubby, your lovely babies.  It's hard, you have to kind of re-train your brain and that's a lot of work but it does get easier.

I hope that's not all come out as gibberish.  It's early and I haven't had any coffee yet

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Kay)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

[BonesMS]

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Kay-Zee))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Tupp)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

It's hard as hell dealing with an NMomster, or any N for that matter, who simply REFUSE to RESPECT boundaries!   

I think I've shared a similar experience on another thread about an N who INSISTED on showing up on my doorstep, UNINVITED and UNANNOUNCED because, in her own little mind, she was DELUSIONAL about OWNING me!  (This was someone I had known for over 40 years until I terminated all contact with her.)

If the children are not around when the NQueenC!@#$ turns up unannounced and uninvited again, if I were in your shoes I would probably react with the following:

"What part of the word 'NO' do you NOT understand?!?!?!  F**K OFF!!!!"

I also got bad-mouthed no matter how hard I tried.  It was damned if I did, damned if I didn't, and, as in Tupp's words, I got slagged off no matter what.  If they choose to believe that you are nothing but a pile of dog !@#$, in their own small-minded opinions, then those kinds of dimwits don't need to be in your life.  Reminds me of a saying I've seen from time to time......

Those who matter don't mind and those who mind don't matter.

Bones

[lighter]

Kay:

I remember being very sensitive and highly aware when I was pregnant...... and it didn't help I was being gaslighted and lied to..... made to doubt my reality, and made to feel guilty for speaking up about how I felt.

It's a terrible hard place to live, IME.

I also remember feeling like drinking myself into a black out stupor to escape the truth of my situation when it became apparent, and I couldn't deny it any longer.  (I didn't, but I recall the moment I told my h his behavior made me WANT to do that.)

There are no good answers.

There are no win/win situations.

Every choice you'll make will have consequences that effect everyone around you (likely) negatively. 

That's the reality, and I think you really care about the people around youm, and about how they perceive you, so it's harder still.

It's difficult to put together a logical game plan when you've been driven to distraction, doubted and made to feel bad for naming your reality.

THE NERVE! 

I have to say, your idea of writing a calm, loving letter to your parents laying out boundaries along with gratitude for the gifts sounded like a very good plan to me.

If you can manage to parcel that into a long term plan of enforcing those boundaries calmly, with grace, and positive (outward) emotions, I believe you'll find a better response from your husband and other family members. They really don't see what you're going through.  They don't understand.

It's my hope that your calm will bring out your mother's true character for all to see, and gain even more support for the boundaries you set.  Your mother gains support when her behavior makes you look like the unstable, bitter one.

It's not wrong to have and set boundaries..... it's logical and healthy.  Don't let yourself get baited into defending them, or your right to have them.  Remain calm, sure sure sure about your rights, and it always helps me to write down all the hard feelings, and read them.  Write some more then read and write again and again until I've internalized it all down to it's essence, and can discuss anything calmly without being triggered, thrown off my stride, respond with anger or shut down in hurt and confusion.

It will help you stay focused on your goals, and pay less attention to the pokes and prods your mother delivers.  Focus on what you'll do, not on what she's done perhaps?

Good luck, I'm sorry you're going through this, esp with all those pregnancy hormones coursing through you.

Lighter

[sKePTiKal]

This might help you sort things out, Kay -- write 2 letters.

In the first one, you're going to say, Mom - I'm not a child you can call to your side any side you want - I have a life, children, and responsibilities. Your behavior is rude and I wouldn't tolerate it in some other person. You're going to write out the kind of relationship you WISH you had with her -- where caring for each other is a 2-way proposition and no one keeps score. You're going to get all that out of your head, first... and this might take awhile. That gives your life and body and hormones a chance to get back to balance -- but also lets you get your feelings and boundaries absolutely positively unequivocably clear in your own mind. You will know for yourself exactly what she is doing/has done that is "wrong" from where you sit. And that will lead naturally, to...

the second letter, where you TELL her (not ask, plead, or request) exactly what you want her to do, what the "rules" are now, and why. This one, you can decide to mail or not -- the first one is simply for you. A letter from you, TO YOU. This is you sticking up for you, helping you enforce boundaries (which ya gotta know what they are, first -- you already know that -- but also WHY you need this boundary -- and that WHY is way higher on the priority level than anything NM could throw out there as "important", you know?)

You will have to explain to her, in words one of your children would understand -- that if she doesn't follow the rules, THIS is going to happen -- and make sure you're ready (and DH to back you up) to enforce it.

---------------------------------------------
A second item I saw in what you wrote: give DH a get out of jail free card -- give him a pass for not coming to your rescue, choosing to tolerate the visit to avoid a scene... poor guy probably feels caught in the middle of an emotional gun battle and his natural reaction is to duck. It will help him know how and when to ride to the rescue, when he knows what your absolute boundaries are too. My poor hubs has the patience of a saint -- after all these years, I still have the same self-harm reflex when I feel my boundaries have been trampled, and I b-itch about every little thing my NM does that makes me crazy... but it doesn't stick with me much anymore; I'm more able to accept: crazy is as crazy does and let it go.

Your DH doesn't know what to do to help; and is afraid of doing the wrong thing -- remember, he's gaslighted too. And Ns are incredible spin-masters... able to create appearances - illusion - of what is just normal human interaction while they drive the knife into your back and twist it for their own sick pleasure. Poor DH is confused about what's going on -- accepting the illusion of normalcy and not understanding what's there to hurt you. People who haven't experienced this particular PD -- can't be expected to know all the ways this works... and it takes some years of explaining (and learning ourselves) just what a trigger is -- and where (the boundaries) those triggers are.

((((((((((((((((((((((Kay)))))))))))))))))))))))))))

He's gonna have your back, don't worry about that. And there is no better feeling in the world. But for the moment, you need to take care of you -- pamper yourself a little, breathe slower and calmer, enjoy some fresh air -- and then set aside some time to write letter #1, for YOU. That will get you to letter #2 the fastest.

[Hopalong]

(((((KZ))))

I really understand how you feel helpless, powerless, drained...when she Got Her Entitlement Way regardless of your needs. I think that's what N-mothering does. I have a dear friend in her 60s, gorgeous, accomplished, intelligent, who INSTANTLY lost all her ability to take good care of herself when her Nmother (now in her 80s) moved to this town from out of state. It's been sad to watch.

I think what you're describing is lack of assertiveness (or effective assertiveness). I can't imagine more helpful training for you than assertiveness training. I think that kind of workshop is tailor-made for children of invasive N-mothers. It's like the calm unruffled refusals, with grace, that Lighter describes. And along the way, plenty of the messy Nobody-is-Going-to-Validate-Me-Here feelings Tupp did.

It frustrates me that assertiveness training isn't still widely available as it was in the 60s and 70s, but there are smart practitioners out there who know how to teach it, and I think it's a sanity saver for people with mothers like yours.

I am really sorry she doesn't see your needs. She may legitimately yearn to see her grandchildren, but ... she doesn't have an automatic RIGHT to.

I wonder about this (and don't know if it's a good idea).

Dear Mom,
I need to explain something difficult. I hope that you will be able to understand and respect it, but if you can't, I feel a responsibility to communicate this clearly anyway.

For reasons I choose not to go into, it is important to my health and my family's well-being that you never again come to visit uninvited or after I have told you it is not a good time for you to come. You may be yearning to come, you may want to see the kids -- I am sure that is true.

But even if you must endure disappointment or frustration when I say No -- you must learn how to accept that it is my right to say when I want you to visit. And that No, means No.

I am going to do all I can to ensure that I communicate with you clearly about my boundaries. If I don't do it perfectly, I will work at it harder. But I want to clarify that I will no longer tolerate you overriding or ignoring my desires. My family and my home is a sanctuary, and whether you think I "should" feel stressed or not over the prospect of a visit -- I will defend my right to maintain the conditions I need to have for a healthful and positive life.

I expect my boundaries to be respected, even if it causes disappointment. Let me repeat this, clearly: DO NOT EVER AGAIN COME TO MY HOME FOR A VISIT WHEN I HAVE TOLD YOU NOT TO.

If you are able to respect this, then our relationship can continue. But it will have to include times when you do not get what you want when you want it, and it will have to EXCLUDE your ever again overriding my wishes and coming to visit because you refuse to wait.

Again, I am not going to go into the reasons with you. I hope you will be able to hear this, and act on it. Any future compulsion to "override" or "go anyway" will be seriously destructive to our relationship.

I don't know if it's a good idea. I guess, what I'm thinking is that IF you are going to learn assertiveness skills and dedicate yourself to practicing them with your mother literally without exception for the rest of her life....THEN, it would make sense to write something like this. It is a warning shot across her bow. But it would not be something to be tentative about.

I am so sorry you're going through these feelings...especially now. She has no clue about how much stress you're under, or how she is a walking Last Straw. But she is.

Much comfort,
Hops

[KayZee]

Thank you Bones!
I admire your bluntness.  And I wish I could do it!  I've spent the past two days mentally telling off NM in my head.  But whenever I've gone there in real life with NM, I tend to get emotional and angry.  And of course, NM just uses that as ammunition, makes me look like I'm the irrational, "crazy," difficult family member.

Agh!  At any rate, thanks for listening and the encouraging words!
Kay x

[KayZee]

Thank you so much TwoaP!

Those are all really sound, amazing strategies.  Exactly the kind of help I've been praying for. 

I think I will draft a letter, keep it short, unemotional and to the point.  And I'm not going to make any accusations or give any rationale or justification because I'm not going to prove anything to NM or make her hear me anyway.  I'll just feel better once I resurrect the boundary and have some documentation in case NM gets even more stalkerish and mental.

DH is on my side.  He's seen the depths of NM's nastiness; she was really vile with him for the first two years of dating and the first two years of marriage.  (Not to mention the hideous way she treated him on our wedding day!)  He doesn't want to see her either (under normal, planned circumstances and holidays) and he was just as floored as I was when they showed up to "surprise" us when I'd explicitly told them to give us some time and space.  DH's way of dealing with things is just to downplay them, laugh them off, try to forget about them as quickly as possible.  So I think he just instantly snapped into that mode after they left, whereas I spent the hours following reeling. 

DH's comment hurt a bit because we don't talk about my mother every day. And even when I do bring her up, we don't often sit down and yak about my issues.  But yes, lately, I've mentioned her every week.  Because every week leading up to her surprise visit, she found someway to try to bulldoze into our lives.  It's been weeks of her threatening to come up and me shutting her down (to DH's shared relief).  So yes, I suppose she's been in our lives a bit more lately but only because she's been more ballsy and bullying then she's been in years.

I do need to retrain my brain though to keep her out... That's the other problem with these visits.  (And probably the one that DH really feels and notices.)  I feel totally distracted, emotional and jumpy for at least three times the length of the time I spend with her.  So if I see her for two days, I feel deeply anxious and depressed for two days before and two days after.  Even the three hours I spent with her after her surprise, translated into at least two days of difficulty concentrating, plus bad dreams.  Last night I woke up screaming, dreamed with horror my 15 month old ate a taranchula and NM was on the sidelines cackling with joy like a witch, shrieking, "Don't you just love it when they eat the big ones?!"

Oh god, I wish there was a quick easy fix.  But I truly can't thank you enough for the support and advice...

so much love and gratitude, Kay x

[KayZee]

Thank you so much Lighter!

They really don't see what you're going through.  They don't understand.

So true.  And I'm so, intensely grateful you all understand... 

It's been a few days and I think I felt self-harmy because (in addition to losing the boundary between my house and NM's) I also lost the boundary between her and me?  Like, it was all a game to her...showing up here, prodding me, trying to set me off in order to make me look irrational, difficult, crazy....and even though I didn't outwardly deliver, some part of me still wondered, after she left, am I the crazy one?  Is it really bad of me to be outraged by this?  I felt framed and body-snatched, like she'd managed to fill me with all her self-hatred and aggression.  And some old part of my brain (I haven't cut myself in seven years or gotten drunk in nine) just wanted to obliterate her by obliterating myself.

It's not wrong to have and set boundaries..... it's logical and healthy.  Don't let yourself get baited into defending them, or your right to have them.  Remain calm, sure sure sure about your rights, and it always helps me to write down all the hard feelings, and read them.  Write some more then read and write again and again until I've internalized it all down to it's essence, and can discuss anything calmly without being triggered, thrown off my stride, respond with anger or shut down in hurt and confusion.

I am definitely going to try this.  I've never thought of it and no one's ever suggested it to me before.  I find it so hard not to be triggered sometimes.  I've gotten better over the years, but NM just pushes and pushes and pushes until she gets the reaction she's looking for.  I try to remove myself from the situation before it gets to that point.  But, it would be incredibly helpful to be able to talk about some of this stuff--even to DH--really calmly and coherently without dissolving into snot and tears.

Thank you so much for your help and support.
it means the world to me... Kay x

[KayZee]

Oh, P.R.  Thank you!  I don't know how you always manage to be filled with such compassion and so much good, strong strategy...

Two letters is brilliant!

And you are right about D.H.  It's a horrible situation to be in, especially for normal guy from a supportive, good-enough family.  He has no experience with these depths of dysfunction.  And it's not his job to rescue me anyway.  I think my mistake was: I was looking for him for affirmation ("this is messed up, right?") when I really should have taken a time-out, alone and worked on a spur-of-the-moment version of letter #1.  I knew it was messed-up.  I felt it.  And yet, somehow that didn't seem like enough. I felt unsure of myself.  And probably a little co-dependent.

Such good advice too about writing letter #2 in language my three-year-old would understand.  Actually, my three year old has more emotional intelligence than NM!  I might have to write it in language my 15-month-year-old would understand: basically, just No. No. No.

so much love and thank you!!! Kay x

[BonesMS]

Thank you Bones!
I admire your bluntness.  And I wish I could do it!  I've spent the past two days mentally telling off NM in my head.  But whenever I've gone there in real life with NM, I tend to get emotional and angry.  And of course, NM just uses that as ammunition, makes me look like I'm the irrational, "crazy," difficult family member.

Agh!  At any rate, thanks for listening and the encouraging words!
Kay x

((((((((((((((((((((((((Kay)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Bones

[KayZee]

Thank you Hops!!

Seriously, that letter is like Cliff's Notes!  And I am totally going to use it as a jumping off point in what P.R. would call my letter #2.  If you ever lead an assertiveness course, you should it plus a few others (a letter for the co-worker, for the friend, for the significant other) into a workbook and publish it!  I haven't done it in years, but I find it really helpful to start with a script and practice it.  That's what therapy (when I could afford it) mostly was for me--a constant dress-rehearsal for confrontations/self-assertions.

I think an assertiveness training class would do me well.  I meant to go and hunt for one the last time you mentioned them.  I feel I should be able to find one around here.  I'm near Woodstock, NY... So there's lots of emotional wellness and personal growth stuff 'round here!  We probably live more in the '60s and '70s than an average community!

At any rate, thank you deeply for the lifeline.
You all have shined so much light on a really dark place.
Kay x

[KayZee]

Thank you again for all the help...

I just sent my email no. 2, having spent a lot of time on it and making sure it was firm and clear, but un-accusatory(?) and not emotionally wrought.  I have serious feeling it will provoke N-rage regardless, but am doing my best to "assert and relax" without stressing out about the fallout.  I feel much better, having stood up for myself and the best needs of DH and the kids.  Thank you all so much for listening and lending advice.  I hope I'm not back with any stalking/restraining order updates (only half joking)...

lots of love, Kay x

[Twoapenny]

Whatever happens, Kay, you are doing the right thing and proceeding along the right lines.  When things got so bad that I had to think about a restraining order my sol told me to write to her first and spell it out - no contact, direct, indirect, no bad mouthing me to people who know me, no sending shitty cards to my four year old son or getting my sister (and even my sister's kids, on one occasion) to write to me.  That way if things do get really bad you have proof that you have calmly, politely asked her to respect your privacy and she has chosen to ignore you.

It's horrible.  I think about my family a lot this time of year; my birthday is late summer - no family and then of course Christmas is fast on its heels and that's a time I really feel the lack of family, as many others do.  Some friends of mine are getting married and are having huge stresses over who they can't invite; they've so many family and friends they're having to trim lists to fit people in.  I've no-one.  But I'd still rather have my health, my sanity and know my son isn't growing up with this craziness around him than put up with her bizarre behaviour so that I can avoid feeling like no-one loves me.  It's tough, tough, tough but the situation can't go on as it is.  You are doing the right thing.

Sending a big hug to you, a don't be crazy vibe to your mum and light and love to everyone else.  Night night.

Tup xx