What gives you your sense of self worth

[Twoapenny]

Thinking more as the day's gone on, I am very aware that looking after young Tup and dealing with the feelings that come up from that is meaning my son's not getting the attention I want him to have so I feel that I have a lot of balls up in the air at the moment and that's making me feel quite tired.

[Hopalong]

Tupp, I'm totally convinced by your narrative because it includes such practicality and a detailed plan. I'm sorry I threw you a curveball there...you DO need to get away from this incredibly toxic place. Which I suddenly got a novelistic sense of, the oppression of the proximity. UGH.

I do have faith you'll take your new strength and inner growth with you...and it will not stop.

Now I'm in it! Wish I could come help you pack.

Hugs
Hops

[Twoapenny]

Tupp, I'm totally convinced by your narrative because it includes such practicality and a detailed plan. I'm sorry I threw you a curveball there...you DO need to get away from this incredibly toxic place. Which I suddenly got a novelistic sense of, the oppression of the proximity. UGH.

I do have faith you'll take your new strength and inner growth with you...and it will not stop.

Now I'm in it! Wish I could come help you pack.

Hugs
H


Hops, absolutely no need to apologise,  I can't tell you how much I appreciate the fact that there are people who listen to what I say, think about it and then take the time to point out possible problems in order to try and save me pain.  It doesn't happen very frequently in my life so I am very grateful when it does.  I hadn't even realised myself how toxic it is until just recently; now it seems so obvious I don't know how I hadn't realised before.

In truth, if it weren't for the timings re my son's college, or I had enough money to move from this particular place but still stay close enough to visit the T then I would do, but life being what it is that's not an option at this time.  It all feels right, though, I can't quite explain it, but things feel as if they are moving in the right direction.

I have found the last couple of days difficult; Young Tup is angry, she doesn't trust me, she finds it hard to take my assurances that I am here for her now.  I got angry with myself; I could have fought back, I could have run away, I could have screamed and shouted and made so much fuss that he never came near me again.  But equally I can see what would have happened if I'd have done those things.  So it's all in a flux but today feels better, calmer.  I am writing poetry and that is helping me; it's not terribly pleasant to read but I'm getting feelings down on paper and, I don't know, really acknowledging things for the first time?

Anyway, it's all good and I massively appreciate your thoughts   With regards to the packing, a long time ago now I posted on here about needing to buy more storage to organise my 'stuff', and you gave me some very good advice about getting rid of 'stuff' instead of finding more places to put it.  I've followed that ever since so there isn't too much to pack now, which means you've already helped with the packing, lol.  I can only say thank you - again!

Love Tup x

[Hopalong]

Already helped with the packing...

Many many many many adolescents/teens abused in the same ways mistakenly believe they "could/should have fought back." When there's only ONE "should" in what happened and it has nothing to do with any Tup behavior at all and never will. He should not have abused and your Mum should not have enabled.

"Shoulda" is old blame-the-victim (I'll make up an acronym--BTV), which is internalized as shame-the-victim, and results in Adolescent Tup being wary of Grownup Tup (who does know BTV is armadillo shit yet can feel angry at herself...for not being a different Young Tup). BTV is merciless.

But you can't even blame yourself for BTV bouts, Tupp. It makes sense because in your inner work, you are stirring up stuff that will cause you to revisit some old feelings and thoughts. Don't despair...

I have retrograde thought/emotion patterns still and when I know I'm better about something, it doesn't mean the door has slammed shut and I'll never deal with it again. It just means life's a cycle or spiral and now and then another wave or ripple comes through.

It's like a kind of perfectionism. I know there are bad things I will never forget. I recognize improving health when my periods of thinking about them become: 1) shorter, and 2) further apart.

Right now you are dealing with all of your past for very very good reasons, so things won't be clean and tidy for a while. You are synthesizing a ton of healing, comforting and strengthening your inner child who will accompany you on your journey forward forever, and preparing for a physical/geographical move that will be the outward expression of your inward liberation.

It's big, sometimes messy stuff! And you're doing it magnificently.

Love,
Hops

[Twoapenny]

Thanks, Hops

I am trying just to 'feel' it and not to attach any right or wrong to it.  I think that's one of the things that's difficult about some upbringings; you don't learn about feelings in a normal way because they're so intense and confused and messed up and there's no healthy dumping ground for them, you just have to bury them deep and try and get through it.  It has been quite revealing to me because I am aware that my reactions to things can be childish at times and I think it's simply because I didn't get a chance to react to things when I was younger.  A lot of it's still just sitting there, waiting to be aired, I suppose.  My anger at myself is probably anger towards my mum and step-dad but still too scary to recognise, I guess?  I think that's another reason for me wanting to move now; they are near enough that if I did erupt I can literally walk right round there and start kicking off and smashing their cars up.  I think there is that underlying fear of losing control and being in close enough proximity to actually do something that I would, ultimately, regret.

I am trying to focus my mind more on positive things; I still find that self talk very naturally leans toward the negative and the critical, particularly in the mornings.  Do keep catching myself and having to try and frame things differently in my mind.

On a more positive and practical note, I had a look online at the disabled sports facilities in the general area we are moving to.  25 pages of sports activities for disabled people, all accessible by bus   Where we live now there isn't one single activity you can get to without a car.  He's not been well enough to do sport for a while but I have to say the huge reduction in driving has been a massive relief for me.  There's also only one of each activity where we live at the moment, so if one isn't suitable for whatever reason that's tough, there isn't another option.  Living somewhere with a wide range of activities available - all subsidised so cheap and cheerful - that we can get to by bus just feels like heaven on a stick.

[lighter]

I think there will be parts of the move, and living elsewhere that is heaven on a stick, Tupp. 

The trick will be shifting into observer mode, and staying there so you can SEE yourself and your new situation without old fear, scripts, and habits sneaking in and scribbling all over it, IME.

It won't be easy, but you'll have this amazing freedom from the....
I get hooked up in posts to you every time I start to refer to your SF and M.  Even the ignorant flying monkeys.

I see monsters doing egregiously harmful things TO you and your son, and doing those things while accusing YOU....
diabolical really.

 The trademark of a truly disturbed person/people....  I can hardly type about it without becoming incensed... every time.  How do you live so close to them, and remain level?  These monsters in positions of trust, charged with your actual protection.... THE NERVE! 

What they've done is diabolical, but I see them as blunt ignorant objects... not as people, and maybe that's where I go wrong.  I lose sight of the fact they were likely victimized by monsters at some point.  And damaged. They're damaged....

distance is just the thing for this, Tupp.  Not figuring them out, but re filing them in your heart and mind, and leaving them far far far behind. Distance is just the thing, IME.

So.....

naming them.   

I  need something I can write and leave on the page, and let go by without distracting me that feels right enough, yet doesn't distract you or anyone else reading. Something I don't have to think about every time I write a post to you, and I write quite a few I don't send, so.... to  just name them. 

I look at your neighborhood from a distance, and I see monsters.  Monsters who harmed you and your son, then turned around and accused you of victimizing them..... how could you live in that place so long, and do as well as you have?

::HUGE PATS on the back for Mother Bear Tupp::

That's where the majority of your energy has gone, and soon you're son will be heading to University, and there will be more time to heal yourself.  You've worked so hard.  You've identified destructive patterns, and coping strategies.  There's the ground work.  Facing the demons is how you back them down, unhook their wires into your brain, and dislodge them... right? 

You're doing that, and at some point you're wiring in new people, places and uplifting things.... there will parts of  the new place that's heaven on a stick, of course there will be.

::nodding::

I so look forward to that for you, even though it won't be automatic metamorphosis.... 
it will be safe space....

distance from the monsters.......

where you can build new things. 

A new chosen family. A new career.  A new T. 

Honestly, just telling your authentic story without having monster fingerprints all over it... sullying it.... confusing it for the people you're telling it to.....
 feels like a line from the Poem SHE LET GO. 
The line I love best...
near the end.

"A small smile came over her face.  A light breeze blew through her."

Just THAT.... not having the monsters touch your story.... reframe in, corrupt it. 

That will be a divine gift you give to yourself and your son, IME.



OK..... I'm going to write out the entire poem to close this post.  Not because I think we should just let go, (Ahhh, pressure!) but bc I believe it's something we can do when we've done the work, and are ready.  I look forward to that for us all.

SHE LET GO

Without a thought or a word, she let go.

She let go of judgements.

She let go of the confluence of opinions swarming around her head.
She let go of the committee of indecision within her.

She let go of all the right reasons.
Wholly and completely, without hesitation or worry, she just let go.

She didn't ask anyone for advice.

She didn't read a book on how to let go.
She just let go.
She let go of all the memories that held her back.

She let go of all the anxiety that kept her from moving forward.

She let go of all the planning and calculations about how to do it just right.

She didn't promise to let go.

She didn't journal about it.
She didn't write the projected date in her Day-Timer.

She made no public announcement.

She didn't check the weather report or read her daily horoscope.
She just let go.

She didn't analyze whether she should let go.

She didn't call her friends to discuss the matter.

She didn't utter one word.
She just let go.

No one was around when it happened.  There was no applause or congratulations.
No one thanked her or praised her.  No one noticed a thing.
Like a leaf falling from a tree, she just let go.

There was no effort.  There was no struggle.

It wasn't good.  It wasn't bad.
It was what it was, and it is just that.
In the space of letting go, she let it all be.

A small smile came over her face.  A light breeze blew through her.

And the sun and the moon shone forevermore. 

Here's to giving ourselves the gift of letting go.....

there's only one guru - you.



I'm still not completely OK with using the lable "monsters" but it gets me to the end of a post much quickly.  It works but it's not quite right either.  It's the pretending they aren't dangerous monsters that's hooked me up, I think.  If you talk about what they did/are likely still doing then the monsters give very large blow back, IME.  The chaos manufacture begins, and nothing good comes of that, we've all been there.

It's the fact that we have to pretend they aren't dangerous criminals capable of doing terrible things.... of DOING terrible things to us..... it's the pretending.

When you get to your new neighborhood you'll be framing everything.  Authentically.  Selecting what you share, and how you share it.  There won't be anyone there to sully it and take it from you, IMO.

It will finally be your story to tell, and your future to build, and your life without monsters looking over your shoulder, deciding what you can have, and what they can take from you.

IS monster the right label?  Is there a better one?  Maybe no words will ever feel OK?

Lighter

[Twoapenny]

Hi Lighter, and thank you  

I love the poem

Words are hard, aren't they?  I still find it hard to accept how bad the things they've done to me are.  Perhaps that will change once I've moved.  Perhaps there is still a need for protection from reality when we live this near each other?  Oddly I have seen my step-dad every day after counselling for the last three weeks.  That used to happen before when I'd talked about him at counselling; he'd drive past me on the way home or at some point the next day.  Weird.

My T asked me to start listing things that my step-dad robbed me of by abusing me.  We'd got to fifteen by the end of the session and I've carried on at home and I now have 44.  It's a lot, Lighter, it's forty years of my life that he's had an incredibly negative and destructive effect on.  I have found that hard to deal with.  I've felt very angry, but also very sad and tired - sad of coping instead of enjoying, watching from the sidelines instead of playing centre stage, waiting for the scraps after everyone else has finished instead of sitting in the middle of the table and demanding the best dishes.  Equally, I did write a list of the things I have accomplished despite what he did (and I did impress myself) and I've written a list of things I want to do with my life - and top of that is move, lol.  I've got a date in my mind, one month before Christmas, so I've started counting down.  We've got a holiday before that, when we'll look at colleges and the general area we'll be looking to move to, just to get an idea of where to look.  This move can be temporary, though, if we just get to the right area, then we can worry about 'the best place to be'.   There's plenty of time for that, I've got money saved and we've got our campervan to stay in should something hideous happen and we end up with nowhere (that did happen once before!  Very scary).  So things are moving forward, an inch at a time.  My usual impatience means I would like them to move quicker but the time frame does mean I'm getting a lot done so the move should be as smooth as possible (bar unforeseen circumstances).

So - monsters.  I think it's a good word.  I always think 'animals' as well - the lack of social skills, the lack of empathy, the 'dog eat dog' mentality.  But then I think of animals and their cute affectionate ways and their ability to love unconditionally and I think no, that's not fair on animals.  It's hard to sum up in one word.  But I think monsters is a good one to go with.  How are things with you? xx

[lighter]

Hi Lighter, and thank you  

I love the poem

Words are hard, aren't they?  I still find it hard to accept how bad the things they've done to me are. You''ll do that in your own time, Tupp.  Perhaps that will change once I've moved.  Perhaps there is still a need for protection from reality when we live this near each other? Honestly, I think you're spot on there..... there would be a need to keep emotional distance, from so many things, while living so close to the monsters, IMO. For so many reasons.  Yes. Oddly I have seen my step-dad every day after counselling for the last three weeks.     That used to happen before when I'd talked about him at counselling; he'd drive past me on the way home or at some point the next day.  Weird.  That is uber duper odd, IMO, Tupp.  You're amazingly strong.

My T asked me to start listing things that my step-dad robbed me of by abusing me. Ack, the white hot color of anger over the idea of his TAKING from little Tupp, then helping your mother take more from you and your son.  The bastard.  The only way I know of to put that kind of anger out is to understand and you don't want to let them take anything else from you.  To accept they're monsters, unable to do better, and know they never will.... they were doing their miserable best, such as it was.  Don't allow them to take any more years away... not the way they have. We'd got to fifteen by the end of the session and I've carried on at home and I now have 44.  It's a lot, Lighter, it's forty years of my life that he's had an incredibly negative and destructive effect on. I think it's enough, Tupp.  I do.  ::nodding:: I have found that hard to deal with. The alchemy of turning NEED.... need to understand, to make sense of, to receive justice, to punish, or to OWN some form of closure.... it eats up our attention and time if we don't find a way to deal with it finally and lay it down, IME.  I can't say I've dealt with anything so serious as you, Tupp, but I know there's got to be an end to the taking taking taking from you if you want it badly enough.   You're strong enough to do that, I believe it truly.

How to turn the need and hate and painful anger into.....
to turn it instead INTO acceptance.... it's like spinning hay into gold, and I can't say I have a lot of experience doing it, but I've done a bit of it, and the sense of relief is astonishing, IME.  Just accepting.... radical acceptance as Hops says.... such a relief. 
Not that the waves don't keep coming, bc they do, but there's hope in the finding some measure, any measure, of feeling better, IME.  Finding better leads to more good things, and it's a matter of inching forward till we understand how much power we have.  Why is it so hard to KNOW these things?  How tragic to be held hostage by how others treated us in the past?  It's all in the expectations, right?  If we change our expectations, we have room for other things.  Acceptance, Tupp.  Realistic expectations free us up to focus on what's in front of us..... that's how it feels right now.

We spend so much time trying to feel better, IME. It can take all our time if we're not careful, and that's smacks more of living like an addict, not thriving.... if we aren't adding to out tool boxrd, and mindfully employing those tools...so hard to do when we're getting knocked off balance over and over again.  I think distance will mean fewer waves for you and those waves will get weaker, and wield less power over you, I hope.  I think it's possible.   It's going to happen for you.  You're working hard to achieve it, and bc you're striving you'll chase it, and find it, IMO.  I've felt very angry, but also very sad and tired - sad of coping instead of enjoying, watching from the sidelines instead of playing centre stage, waiting for the scraps after everyone else has finished instead of sitting in the middle of the table and demanding the best dishes. I think you'll be able to take center stage, and ask for the finest dish, Tupp.  When it happens it won't feeel like you think it will either.  It'll feel like you're playing hooky and can suddenly take flight.... a flip of a switch, and a KNOWING that things are different bc you believe they are.  Equally, I did write a list of the things I have accomplished despite what he did (and I did impress myself) and I've written a list of things I want to do with my life - and top of that is move, lol.  I've got a date in my mind, one month before Christmas, so I've started counting down. ::marking calendar... Tupp's move:: We've got a holiday before that, when we'll look at colleges and the general area we'll be looking to move to, just to get an idea of where to look.  This move can be temporary, though, if we just get to the right area, then we can worry about 'the best place to be'.  So true.  It doesn't have to be just the right place.  I honestly believe you'll be in spot you need to be.  That spot will have a purpose, and you'll discover why it was right, and maybe it leads to a better space you wouldn't have found otherwise.  There's plenty of time for that, I've got money saved and we've got our campervan to stay in should something hideous happen and we end up with nowhere (that did happen once before!  Very scary).  So nice to have alll your bases covered, Tupp.  You're pragmatic, and plan as best you can.... that's one of the reasons your son is doing so well, IMO.So things are moving forward, an inch at a time.  My usual impatience means I would like them to move quicker but the time frame does mean I'm getting a lot done so the move should be as smooth as possible (bar unforeseen circumstances).  It's amazing how much we can get done when a time frame is in place, huh? 

So - monsters.  I think it's a good word.  I always think 'animals' as well - the lack of social skills, the lack of empathy, the 'dog eat dog' mentality.  But then I think of animals and their cute affectionate ways and their ability to love unconditionally and I think no, that's not fair on animals.  It's hard to sum up in one word.  But I think monsters is as good as any, How are things with you? xx  I think the word monster fits as well as any, and I'm happy not to think about it any more.  Just let it be that, and keep moving towards safe harbor. 

((((Tupp and Son)))

I'm doing OK.  My oldest dd visits next week, and we're really connecting... she's connecting to youngest dd as well.  So nice.  My girls are so emotionally intelligent.... I didn't have that when I was their age... maybe I don't have it now, but I'm feeling blessed to grow alongside them without blame, or finger pointing.  It's all about solutions, and finding better ways. 

::nodding::

We're planning to have a bonfire/sleepover/apple dumpling baking/puzzle room solving/card playing reunion, and the house looks great, the back porch is covered in hanging candle fairy lights, and the firepit is beckoning.... I really am feeling blessed: )

Thanks for asking.
 
Lighter

[lighter]

Tupp:

http://www.wisebrain.org/wisebrainbulletin/WBB10.4.pdf


I just finished the above, very timely, link.

Just......

wow.


Lighter

[Hopalong]

Ditto that wow, Lighter--thank you for that link.
I'm signing up.

Sorry to hijack, Tupp...but I'm signing up for an intensive mindfulness group. It's led by friends of mine, includes other friends and neighbors of theirs. But the couple leading it are long-term meditators.

I told her that not only do I have ADD but the squirrel in my head does too, but I'm still looking forward to what I can learn from it.

thanks again
Hops

[Twoapenny]

Head is whizzing.  Will reply properly later on (have read through but mind is befuddled and struggling to put feelings into words).  Hops, never a need for hijacking threads

But a quick question for you -

We want to move, as you know.  Moving brings it's own set of stresses and problems, as you know.  I'm very tired and long for some time to recharge my batteries (as I expect most of us do).

I have been offered a shortish term house sitting 'opportunity'.  Very out of the blue and very unexpected.  Approximately 3 months, in the absolute middle of nowhere, looking after someone's land and their animals whilst they are elsewhere.  No pay, but also no rent.  So, pros and cons:

Pros:  We could leave here more quickly and easily, and be able to put the deposit we get back from this place into a savings account and keep saving, meaning we'd have more for our new home a bit further down the line.
It's pretty much 'off the grid', meaning that we'd be harder to track down should my mother do her usual bit.
It's very rural in a beautiful part of the country so the nature around us would be stunning.
It is the kind of adventure I long for (even if it turns out to be a disaster).
If it is a complete disaster it is only for twelve weeks and we could pull out sooner if we really wanted to.
It's outdoorsey, working with animals which would be good for me to have on my 'list of skills', particularly as I am very keen to join communes at a later date and work abroad, possibly through the WWOOFing scheme.
I think it would be great for my son.
It's much closer to our new 'place we want to live' which would make looking for somewhere easier.
It wouldn't delay my son's college application as I could just get all the paperwork in place and send if off as soon as we get a move in date to the permanent area (which would be end of Jan so still well in time for the deadline).
The cat would love it.

Cons:  It is in the middle of nowhere - literally no neighbours, I don't know about phone/internet and would have to check.
It's a caravan (trailer, I think you call them) so will be cold even with heating on and it is going to be winter.
It will probably rain for the whole time we are there so we will never dry out!
Four miles from the nearest town - not bad but will mean we can't just pop out for a pint of milk if we need to.
The animals might escape/get ill/peck me to death or something.
The owners could just change their minds (just as we could) which would mean having to find somewhere else to live quickly (although we'd have the deposit money saved anyway so that probably wouldn't be a big problem).
I'd have to put a lot of my furniture into storage which will be a cost (although not too high a one as I don't have an awful lot of gear).
We wouldn't have a postal address so would have to sort out some sort of mail forwarding/PO Box system.

Complete nightmare?  Or worth looking into?  I'm keen to find out more but am aware that my head's all over the place at the moment and keeps telling me to to RUN AWAY so I'm not sure if 3 months in the middle of nowhere would be a blessing or a curse at the moment.

[Hopalong]

Wow, Tupp.

Unlike you, I am a LOL (Lazy Old Lady) and lack the grit to take on isolation, unknown animals, no internet, and so forth. Like you, I am a VSF (very serious fantasist) so I can see how you look for the rosy side. AND, if it really did mean significant money for your future could be put by, I'd probably really want to consider it.

But. You've already identified quite a few downsides. Living in a trailer during rainy winter with your son, and four miles from anything? Not sure it'll be the bucolic dream, honestly. And if it IS nightmarish for those or yet-identified factors that appeared once there...would you have a Plan B? I think that's probably pretty decisive. If you leave your current home with belongings in storage, what happens next if you really HAVE to get out of there?

Keep thinking, adding to your Pros and Cons list...and I know others here will have good observations.

Wow. Oh, also, breaaaaathe...

Hugs
Hops

[Twoapenny]

Wow, Tupp.

Unlike you, I am a LOL (Lazy Old Lady) and lack the grit to take on isolation, unknown animals, no internet, and so forth. Like you, I am a VSF (very serious fantasist) so I can see how you look for the rosy side. AND, if it really did mean significant money for your future could be put by, I'd probably really want to consider it.

But. You've already identified quite a few downsides. Living in a trailer during rainy winter with your son, and four miles from anything? Not sure it'll be the bucolic dream, honestly. And if it IS nightmarish for those or yet-identified factors that appeared once there...would you have a Plan B? I think that's probably pretty decisive. If you leave your current home with belongings in storage, what happens next if you really HAVE to get out of there?

Keep thinking, make your Pros and Cons list...and I know others here will have good observations.

Wow. Oh, also, breaaaaathe...

Hugs
Hops

Lol, am breathing in fits and starts   Have emailed a list of questions.  On one hand I feel it could be a break between my old life and my new one.  Character building stuff.  On the other could make me enter my new life depressed, lol.  Would be good financially.  Plan B is easy enough as we'd have the money to move so could just go and rent a flat.  Although saying that a big chunk of metal has just fallen off my van so I'd probably be better to wait and see how much that is going to cost.  We're 3 miles from anything other than a corner shop where we are now so that bit doesn't bother me so much.  No internet might do a bit more; did struggle without it recently.  Won't be completely isolated as the lady that owns it lets a home ed group meet there twice a week so we'd have visitors (which is more than we do now, lol!).  Will wait and see what the answers to the questions are.  I wonder how difficult it is to teach yourself to ride a horse? x

[Hopalong]

Oh, Lord.
Tupp faceplants in horse poo....

Okay, breathe (to self).

Hmmm. I like the thought of visitors! And adore horses though I quit riding. Do you have ANY experience with farm animals? Will the owners leave you nice and clear daily/each task instructions? I could imagine how lovely that could be for your son, to gain that experience. SO good for kids with issues to take responsibility for animal chores. They (animals) have wisdom and just don't judge... Now it's sounding more appealing!

Money, good. Plan B, good. Four miles not intimidating, good.

Now, how the Board would cope with no Tupp-talk for 3 months...BAAAAAAD. Have laptop? Village have a wifi coffee shop?

Vicarious thrills,
Hops

[lighter]

Hi Tupp:

I like to make lists of pris and cons.

Also....maybe a day on the farm helping to care for animals before you go any further?  Hands on experience will give you tons of information.

Worst case scenario.....what doesn't kill you and all that.

Best case.....you and your son experience the farm as tonic for the soul. 

I sure would like to see how your day reacts to the farm and animals up front.  How do you feel when you're there?

Lighter