Author Topic: Facebook post by Micaela (my daughter) on the day after the election  (Read 9366 times)

sea storm

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Re: Facebook post by Micaela (my daughter) on the day after the election
« Reply #30 on: March 01, 2017, 02:11:39 PM »
I really liked Micaela's passionate response to the Trump election. It is not watered down in polite fancy dancing but comes straight from the shoulder. Firey opal girl.
Trump got elected and it is a wake up call for me and I realize that even after hearing about whole cities being defeated and ruined by economic decisions made by government. I think it is about armies of frightened people struggling to live the American dream and realizing that they are in quick sand because the government has failed them. We hear that the middle class is struggling but they are not hungry, they don' t have to try to feed and be there for their children when the money cannot stretch that far, or face health problems with no support.
The squabbling that goes on between the rich and uber educated about what America needs ,where they seek answers in polls and popularity really makes poor people feel sick with hopelessness.
The reason Trump got elected is because of fear and ignorance. People had little or no understanding of the issues and were not educated enough to understand and people are scared. So they are scared of anything that looks like it will create more stress. The resiliency and willingness is not there.
So much governmental policy seems to be initiated in a top down way. Just pushing people around and walking into their lives in such a glib and egotistical top dog way. The people have spoken. They would rather go down in flames than stand for a continuation of the same old crap.

I am not a Trump support and never was . I'm Canadian and even I feel disheartened and yup, i felt grabbed by the pussy when Trump was elected. Come to think about it...... lets all women where badges that say that so we are not silenced by Trump's language in being pussies.

Micaela, don't stop speaking your mind. Bless you fierce warrior woman. There are no prizes but it needs to be done.

Lot of love
Sea

Hopalong

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Re: Facebook post by Micaela (my daughter) on the day after the election
« Reply #31 on: March 01, 2017, 06:28:44 PM »
How wonderfully, perceptively written this is, Sea.
And how I value you.

love,
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

sea storm

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Re: Facebook post by Micaela (my daughter) on the day after the election
« Reply #32 on: March 02, 2017, 03:01:50 AM »
Awwwww Hops. Hugs and cuddles to you.
It is good to see a lively debate. I don't know how to do it properly but at least i get the ideas out there and they can get honed by wiser people than me.

I am so surprised to see great hordes of people coming out to protest. They are even doing it in Canada, in my little town of Port Albern and in Vancouver, BC.  The world has woken up. The slumbering haves of the western world are awake to how fragile their freedom has become.

Personally, I don't go for parties and they seem more corrupt all the time. The beauty of values over consumption and greed is emerging in a humanistic and uniting way. I opposite is Trumpism.
I bet that is a landmark for political writing from me. AND I am joining the NDP party to try to get more votes in our election.


Well, I think I will just ramble on drifting along with the tumbling tumbleweeds, Hops. Keep the faith

Sea

lighter

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Re: Facebook post by Micaela (my daughter) on the day after the election
« Reply #33 on: March 03, 2017, 10:03:02 AM »

The world has woken up. The slumbering haves of the western world are awake to how fragile their freedom has become.

The beauty of values over consumption and greed is emerging in a humanistic and uniting way.

Sea


Yes to the above..... Corporate greed, and using insanely triggering arguments to distract, and pit us against each other.... Yes.

The destruction and pillaging of our planet, without responsibility to clean up their mess, or make safe again, is the world's reality now...... even the safe, white entitled people's reality. 

Standing up for the immigrants, and minorities and people in the line of fracking fire, etc.... everyone who stands up for them is standing up for their own rights, IMO.
Lighter
« Last Edit: March 03, 2017, 10:05:38 AM by lighter »

sea storm

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Re: Facebook post by Micaela (my daughter) on the day after the election
« Reply #34 on: March 03, 2017, 08:23:36 PM »
I agree.  Our voices really need to be heard now. Women know about how the world is suffering. Men too.  Things need to shift and I think they are at some level that is not clear yet. Paradigm shift.

lighter

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Re: Facebook post by Micaela (my daughter) on the day after the election
« Reply #35 on: March 04, 2017, 12:15:34 PM »
I watched NETFLIX documentary last night.....

Inn Saei is title, I think that's how it's spelled.

Timely watch for anyone with Netflix.  It speaks to this topic directly, IMO.

Lighter

mudpuppy

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Re: Facebook post by Micaela (my daughter) on the day after the election
« Reply #36 on: March 21, 2017, 01:30:25 PM »
Quote
It is good to see a lively debate. I don't know how to do it properly but at least i get the ideas out there and they can get honed by wiser people than me. 

That's  not  a debate. That's having someone you assume is sharper than you confirm your biases.

Quote
Personally, I don't go for parties and they seem more corrupt all the time....

..... AND I am joining the NDP party to try to get more votes in our election. 

One of these things is not like the other.

Quote
 ....using insanely triggering arguments to distract, and pit us against each other.... 

I'm  going to guess calling people who disagree with you greedy, rapacious, Nazi, fascist, racist, hateful, xenophobic, homophobic, Islamophobic, misogynistic bigots are most definitely  NOT examples of insanely triggering arguments to distract and pit us against each other. They're just obvious facts every right thinking person acknowledges because there is only one right way to think, right?

I  would delicately suggest this kind of rhetoric and demonizing of anyone with the temerity to not toe the statist line is an impediment to political success and most of the reason those toeing it find themselves close to the political wilderness.

Quote
... they are in quick sand because the government has failed them..... So much governmental policy seems to be initiated in a top down way. Just pushing people around and walking into their lives in such a glib and egotistical top dog way.

So the solution is more government?
Government is by definition from the top down. The perpetuation and growth of itself is its only core value and it is by its nature unreformable. And the greater its distance from the citizens the greater its arrogance yet the left demands every law and regulation be a national one. But even at the local level government is by definition some of the populace or simply unaccountable bureaucrats imposing by force policies on either everyone or those without a voice.
And contrary to what the left seems to think,  every one of the most destructive  acts perpetrated on the poor and minorities was done so by force of government; whether the statutory legality of slavery, the codification of Jim Crow and its support in the Plessey decision or the soul rotting and family destroying evil disguised as do-gooding called the welfare state.

A wise man once said government is the problem not the solution.


Hopalong

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Re: Facebook post by Micaela (my daughter) on the day after the election
« Reply #37 on: March 22, 2017, 12:19:31 AM »
I'm always saddened when I hear you generalize and seethe with sarcasm here, Mud, when no one here to my memory has ever treated you this way:

...calling people who disagree with you greedy, rapacious, Nazi, fascist, racist, hateful, xenophobic, homophobic, Islamophobic, misogynistic bigots are most definitely NOT examples of insanely triggering arguments to distract and pit us against each other. They're just obvious facts every right thinking person acknowledges because there is only one right way to think, right?

I don't know what it feels like to be "insanely triggered" but it makes me sad to hear you this way.

I disagree with your characterization of welfare. I don't need to call you names to say so, and I'm not thinking up some scathing way to put you in your place or condemn you to any kind of wilderness.

We need to put down the condescending explanations and contempt and listen to each other. Many of your points about government are well taken. Good people can disagree in good faith about how to re-balance this country.

I'm not content with the direction it is going, but am unsure whether this board is the place for politics. If there is more light than heat, I'm game, but much as I have always respected you, I feel intimidated and nearly silenced by your tone.

Sometimes I wonder if your feelings toward liberals have anything to do with your life as a logger. I don't know if that makes any sense but I know the work we do can get us into fixed mindsets as much as our faiths sometimes can. To me, it matters more that we always speak to and treat each other with dignity and respect. We don't have to think alike to love alike.

love,
Hops
« Last Edit: March 22, 2017, 12:37:55 AM by Hopalong »
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

mudpuppy

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Re: Facebook post by Micaela (my daughter) on the day after the election
« Reply #38 on: March 22, 2017, 11:13:18 PM »
I  didn't say you called anyone any names and I didn't call anyone any names.
However a good many of those labels I listed have been used in this thread and all of them are used routinely by the left to describe, not far right fringe groups, but elected Republicans and their voters.

Nor did I  condemn anyone to a wilderness.  I tried to helpfully point out the over the top rhetoric that I  listed is contributing to the  left and the Dems suffering historic electoral setbacks at every level of government. IOW they're condemning themselves to the political wilderness.

Disagreeing with my characterization of welfare is fine but pointless. One only has to compare the state of the  black family and inner cities prior to the welfare state and post welfare. You have to try to make a system with worse results than Jim Crow but the architects of our present system  were up to the task.

I  note your call for reasoned debate and to end the name calling, the first of which I  have engaged in and the second of which I have not, did not occur for instance after Bones's original comment which really was seething and filled with quite strident name calling. And you congratulated Sea after she reckoned Trump was elected by ignoramuses and Doc's daughter who equated people like me  electing Trump to sexual abusers.

I'm thinking maybe you are seeing things a bit less clearly than you think you are and maybe I'm seeing them a bit more clearly than you give me credit for.
If people don't like sarcasm then they should consider, if they're going to talk about politics maybe they should rationally discuss the issues rather than making either careless or malicious characterizations of the people they disagree with.
If you start off punching somebody in the mouth you shouldn't be surprised if they punch back. And if you engage in lazy thinking, who is at fault the lazy thinker or the person who points it out?

As to logging forming my political philosophy didn't you just inveigh against generalizations?
My political philosophy stems from my observations of the real world, my valuing of liberty over safety, free will over coercion and my comparison of the philosophical  root of  the  Founders and our Constitution and the ideological  roots of those who seek to fundamentally transform it, to quote the  recently departed president.

I  do agree this is not the forum for politics which is why I  don't start political conversations here. However when others do, particularly when views I  hold or people I voted for are being characterized as hateful fascists,  it  would be a little ironic if I  didn't  speak up on the Voicelessness  board, wouldn't it?

mud


Hopalong

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Re: Facebook post by Micaela (my daughter) on the day after the election
« Reply #39 on: March 23, 2017, 08:35:19 AM »
Referring to "ignorance" as a cause isn't the same as name-calling a person an "ignoramus." Sea did the former, and I agree. I also thought she expressed a lot of empathy for voters, how'd you miss it?

I think savoring anger isn't a good thing.

I am ignorant about a whole lot of things. And lucky, because I was born into the opportunity for an high-quality education. That should not be but IS an elite privilege--a class accident. I can never take it for granted. It was not earned...every child deserves great teachers in safe, well-funded schools. Because like health care, equal education should be a human right, not a privilege (yet evolved according to where power lived, thus becoming privilege). That education, in an environment where I could study and learn (in a well-nourished body that had plenty of wholesome food and easy access to health care) can lead to a peaceful home full of books, music and hopefully kindness. It's hard to create strong families and cultural awareness if one's never been exposed to them. But there are different kinds of knowledge. The knowledge I lack--many pragmatic strengths, huge areas of thought I wasn't drawn to--I'll never gain completely. I had the enormous gift of liberal arts. Just learning to think.

I don't know if I'm a lazy thinker. Probably I am. Or maybe a simple thinker is a fairer term. If fact + compassion guide a policy, I'm likely to favor it. If fact - compassion seem at play, I likely won't. I'm also drawn to common sense and when I connect the dots about what causes or has laid the groundwork for suffering, my awareness rises. Anyway, one thing I learned is that what we all have in common is much larger than what divides us. I'd rather focus on what we have in common.

Where I live, I experience people newly since the election. I wear a pretty BLM pin on my coat that I got at church; it's a simple thing. I've had small encounters in town that I would not have had otherwise, that have touched me. One young man who works in parking at the Medical Center asked me about it and when I promptly gave it to him he reacted with such emotion. A lady in the grocery beside me suddenly opened up and shared with me her sweet-potato recipe. A checker's face lit up when she saw it. And so on. Every day. Simple as this is, their reactions underscore for me how painful it has been for so many people to be guarded, careful, wary every day...because the assumption was their lives did not matter. Not as much. (Even as a child I saw evidence every day that their fear was reality based.)

I just realize, wearing my pin, that it is a tiny way for me to say, I see you. I have seen your unequal opportunities and struggles and suffering and mistreatment here, in my lovely town, my whole life. I understand your pain not firsthand, but because I feel it. And in this time, I'm going to say so.

I am Hops, hear me squeak roar.

Rambling on, I've never understood the absurdity of taking offense at the statement that Black Lives Matter (as though it states, Only Black Lives Matter, which it does not)...and the lack of empathy for WHY black parents live in terror for their children, a very specific terror most white parents can skip over...that absurd reaction saddens me. BLM is a positive message, and was a flash of brilliance, imo. Likewise, reading books about white privilege is a revelation I'm grateful for. It's so logical and even denial makes sense, too, when you understand how fearful everyone is of the Other.

Anyway, I realize in writing this ramble that I am just telling stories about people, and it all intersects. What you experience as "reasoned debate" to me just feels hostile and makes me sad. That's an emotional construct--I'm a poet partly because of it...and I can't help it, I'm wired that way. I've always been sensitive this way, no matter which political side I have been on. I've never, ever enjoyed passionate arguments that tear others down. Whether I think an argument is "correct" or not. I like light but recoil from fire. (There was hellfire-and-brimstone in my childhood, too.)

I know if we ever met in person I'd hug you and be happy to see you, Mud. Maybe we could volunteer together for some effort that makes sense to both of us.

I hope it happens. Countries do split, and wars happen, dictators rise and civilizations collapse. That's history. If love's going to win it needs to win everywhere.

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

mudpuppy

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Re: Facebook post by Micaela (my daughter) on the day after the election
« Reply #40 on: March 24, 2017, 02:28:44 AM »
The problem is all that rambling sounds compassionate but in the real world it leads to more misery not less.
Sentiment is worth less than zero when it meets the hard edge of human nature. There is for instance no compassion in patronizingly feeling sympathy for the fear of  the  mother of a black child at the hands of the police when he is at least 1,000 times as likely to be killed by another black child.
After 50 years of a war on poverty based on the  concept of white privilege the poverty rate is the same and the inner cities are if anything worse.
The thing that is killing blacks more than anything is white liberals working out their guilt complexes on them regardless of the consequences.
People die by the thousands due to the policies that have torn their neighborhoods and families apart and you worry that sarcasm isn't  appropriate when people suggest doubling down on these murderous policies that will kill and maim thousands more and condemn another generation or two to government dependency and the hopelessness that goes with it.
Under segregation black families were nearly as intact as whites and black teenage unemployment was actually lower than whites. Now, segregation was awful but for the black underclass the last fifty or sixty years of left wing government paternalism has been vastly worse in almost every single category that can be measured. That takes some doing.

So pardon my anger but you're damn right I'm mad when the people who constructed this catastrophe for the most vulnerable members of society ignore what they've wrought and prattle on about checking my privilege when they apparently  long ago checked their brains in order to preen about how much they care about the lives they've destroyed. Toss in the almost unspeakable  conceit of calling those who oppose what they've done racists and it seems to me the anger is rather more muted than it should be.

 Leftism not only means never having to say you're sorry, it provides one with the moral certitude to expect thanks from the ones you should be saying sorry to.

I'm  not  sure  why those on the left side of the spectrum are so unhappy. You won. You told us drugs are fun and the most vulnerable believed you and now swim in a sea of narcotics and opiods. You told us we needed a sexual revolution and that marriage was old fashioned and that we should  pay mothers without husbands. We now have a legitimacy rate approaching single digits, abortions vastly disproportionately hitting blacks, roving bands of fatherless boys killing each other and almost total devastation of black inner city families. You told us we needed open borders and now the same pathologies are hitting Hispanic neighborhoods and illegal aliens are soaking up the entry level jobs black youth used to use to get a foot on the  ladder. You told us blacks lagged because of whitey's racism and privilege and so black youth don't even try anymore because somebody owes them an "A" and a job or the dole.
You told us progressive policies were what were needed and after decades of almost complete progressive rule of every major city the poor black population is in worse shape than before. You told us black criminals were really victims and we went soft on crime and the crime rate soared. Who were the victims? White professors and politicians who told them criminals were really victims? No their black neighbors were the overwhelming victims of the crime wave. Thank God  common sense prevailed and the crime rate was brought down, but now the left whines about "mass incarceration" and if they have their way they  and the BLM  crowd mouthing the same platitudes will unleash another crime wave on the poor black neighbors of the thugs the left wants freed.
Congratulations. The left won.
That's why people are so ticked off: when the left wins everybody else loses.

mud

mudpuppy

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Re: Facebook post by Micaela (my daughter) on the day after the election
« Reply #41 on: March 24, 2017, 02:53:39 AM »
BTW;

ig·no·ra·mus  (ĭg′nə-rā′məs)  n. 

An ignorant person.

I  didn't miss the sympathy. I found it underwhelming when she said we are  ignorant.
How'd you miss the insult? More importantly why did you approvingly repeat it?
We're not ignorant and the vast majority of us are not any of the things the left accuses us of so they don't have to debate ideas; a debate they invariably lose.
We're sick of the arrogant, casual insults and the supercilious condescension and projection  by people who are routinely  wrong and who are locked into a rigid ideology that prevents their admission they're  wrong  but instead prompts them to become ever more condescending and averse to debating ideas.
There are a few relatively  gentle souls like you but unfortunately  you are, in my experience, more the exception than the rule.

mud


lighter

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Re: Facebook post by Micaela (my daughter) on the day after the election
« Reply #42 on: March 24, 2017, 12:59:25 PM »
Mud:

Does Trump never remind you of your brother or his way of operating in the world?

I was struck hard by similarities between my husband and Trump during the election. 

Think for a moment .....Any simarity at all?

Lighter
 

mudpuppy

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Re: Facebook post by Micaela (my daughter) on the day after the election
« Reply #43 on: March 24, 2017, 05:26:14 PM »
Trump and my brother are dissimilar in ways too numerous to count and similar in very few and those are superficial. In fact I suspect  a neutral third party with their perspective not ensnared in politics would almost certainly note that my dear brother shares many, many more personality traits with the  44th president rather than the 45th.

Regardless, personalities are irrelevant to good policy and a political philosophy that sustains life, liberty and property and those are the things that interest me in the political  realm, not how somebody feels or makes other people feel.
Feelings are for the Hallmark Channel. Thought, experience, reason and the basic morality that government's only legitimate purposes are to protect the country from foreign threats and from one citizen harming another are for political philosophy.

mud

lighter

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Re: Facebook post by Micaela (my daughter) on the day after the election
« Reply #44 on: March 28, 2017, 09:22:35 AM »
Mud:

If you leave out party politics, are you saying that your brother shares the moral fiber and character of #44, and not with #45?

Lighter