Author Topic: My Long, Long Story.........I no longer Feel Alone With This  (Read 65838 times)

longtire

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Re: sad
« Reply #60 on: February 08, 2005, 12:41:01 PM »
Quote from: bunny
Well, I don't know what info you read but it's extremely difficult for a spouse to help the partner if they were sexually abused in childhood. The partner who is trying to help will be attacked many times for their efforts.


What I read was a list of suggestions on how to support and allow space for the abused spouse during their recovery.  Of course, all of that supposes the abused is willing and is working on their recovery.  Reading it helped me to realize is that my instincts were on the right track in the beginning of our marriage.  I didn't do anything wrong and certainly didn't cause my wife's problems in any way.  With someone not using denial as a defense, my support may even have been appreciated for the caring attempt that it was.  Imagine that!

Quote from: bunny
Your wife may have wanted to be a good wife. But she can't do it with her problems. Until her inner hell is diminished (in intensive therapy), I don't think you have a chance of getting your needs met.


I finally see that.

I think she still believes that she HAS to be a PERFECT daughter/wife/mother/person.  When reality contradicts that, she creates her own reality in her head.  Part of her (the real part underneath?) knows that being perfect is impossible, so she projects outside excuses (usually me) as to why she is held back from her "natural" state of being perfect.

S's mother shamed her into giving up herself and being "perfect" to keep her mother from dying and abandoning her and S tries to do the same thing to me.  I can see that its the only way she knows/believes/trusts.  I can see that she believes that her way is THE only possible definition for "relationship" right now.

From growing up in a family without emotional feedback, I was already afraid that I wasn't good enough as a person.  Even then, I still couldn't convince myself that the things that S was saying about me were real or correct.  I know, I tried to convince myself that she was right and I was wrong.  <Insert "My wife blamed me and all I got was this lousy depression" T-shirt>  :lol:

I've wasted a lot of time and energy playing that pointless (for me) game with her.  I won't do it anymore.  Not with her or with anyone else.  I believe that means our marriage is over because I don't think she can interact with me in any other way.

Quote from: bunny
I think you deserve individual therapy to get needs for being "seen" and "heard" met. You're trying to do this without help. That's what you've been forced to do all your life. But now you have the resources to have your own therapist. I hope you consider it.


I agree.  I have an individual session with the counselor next week and then we have a joint session the week after.  I'm going to keep those appointments, but I believe that will be the end of that.  Part of the agreement with the counselor is that she will only treat us as long as she's seeing us as a couple.  I'm calling today to setup an appointment with my previous therapist.  I'm really curious to see how it goes for me with him this time.

More later, its taken me 2 hours to post this due to interruptions today.   :)
longtire

- The only thing that was ever really wrong with me was that I used to think there was something wrong with *me*.  :)

bunny

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Re: sad
« Reply #61 on: February 08, 2005, 08:51:14 PM »
Quote from: longtire
I didn't do anything wrong and certainly didn't cause my wife's problems in any way.  With someone not using denial as a defense, my support may even have been appreciated for the caring attempt that it was.  Imagine that!


I'm sorry you've been deprived of it for so long.


Quote
I think she still believes that she HAS to be a PERFECT daughter/wife/mother/person.  When reality contradicts that, she creates her own reality in her head.  Part of her (the real part underneath?) knows that being perfect is impossible, so she projects outside excuses (usually me) as to why she is held back from her "natural" state of being perfect.


I don't think there is a real part of her that is available to anyone right now. External events generally get in the way of perfection. Then the person who is desperately trying to be perfect feels shame fused with rage.


Quote
S's mother shamed her into giving up herself and being "perfect" to keep her mother from dying and abandoning her and S tries to do the same thing to me.  I can see that its the only way she knows/believes/trusts.  I can see that she believes that her way is THE only possible definition for "relationship" right now.


Insightful.


Quote
From growing up in a family without emotional feedback, I was already afraid that I wasn't good enough as a person.  Even then, I still couldn't convince myself that the things that S was saying about me were real or correct.  I know, I tried to convince myself that she was right and I was wrong.


But now you know what's accurate and what's distorted.


Quote
I've wasted a lot of time and energy playing that pointless (for me) game with her.  I won't do it anymore.  Not with her or with anyone else.  I believe that means our marriage is over because I don't think she can interact with me in any other way.


It was always over. The only question was when you'd open the prison gates.

Congratulations on making your own therapy appointment! I hope it is helpful!!

bunny

longtire

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My Long, Long Story.........I no longer Feel Alone With This
« Reply #62 on: February 10, 2005, 05:25:51 PM »
Well, I realized that this thread has turned into more of a diary than a discussion.  I'm not sure what to make of that.  On the one hand I'm proud of myself for opening up, finding my voice, and sharing what I'm feeling and thinking.  On the other hand, I still feel afraid a lot of times that talking about myself "makes" me Narcissitic or selfish.  I know in my brain that a lot of this comes from growing up in a home where it was taboo to ever talk about feelings, but I haven't been able to emotionally get it yet.  For now, I'm trying to surf along, reminding myself of the good points of posting and giving myself permission to make mistakes for the rest.  If someone is unhappy with this thread, I hope they post and let me know rather than just ignoring it.  In the past, I would have just said that they can go somewhere else if they don't like it.  It feels more connected for me to be open to relevant criticism now.

I have an appointment to restart therapy with my old therapist on Monday.  I felt very tongue-tied when talking to him on the phone to setup the appointment.  I was surprised by my reaction and will mention that with him Monday.

On the good side of life, I got my inner child to trust me!  When I was feeling so sad the other night, I did some guided imagery, talking with my inner child.  I told him I wanted to feel all the sadness and reassured him it was all right to let it all out.  I only had a few tears, but felt a lot better afterwards.  I asked what he needed to feel safe and happy and he told me that he needed me (the adult) to protect him (the child).  I promised to do that and he handed the protection role over to me and has been happily being just a child again.  Since then, I am aware of my inner child when he speaks up and tells me to enjoy life more.  Later that night "we" had a good time making ourself dinner and watching a couple of fun action movies.

The committment I made to protect myself is from unhealthy people and situations without avoiding or withdrawing in general, as I have done in the past.  Since I do not seem to have any influence to get my wife to stop treating me badly for things which have nothing to do with me, the only other course I can see is to not interact with her.  I plan to let her know that I have decided to go ahead in getting a divorce in front of a witness in our next  (last) joint counseling.  Even if things could be worked out between us, I don't see any way they can be worked out while we are together.  I know that I need a long break from all the blame and shame crap so I can work on my own issues and not waste time and energy "working" on a relationship that does not give me anything I need or want.  I've been working to gather information on our financial situation and thinking about what I need to do to prepare.

I realized last night that this is the problem I have had with Imago all along.  I understand how it's supposed to work.  It's a great idea for two people in an intimate relationship to be committed to help each other grow and mature, essentially being each other's amateur therapist.  My wife is unable to do that for me.  I have attempted to play this role with her in the past, but she just blames me even more for doing it.  She is neither able to give or receive in this area due to her beliefs and defenses around relationship, intimacy and power/control/influence.  I honestly think that it might actually be better for her as well if I were not around to mistakenly blame for her issues.  Who knows, she might realize that even though I'm not around anymore, she still has the same problems.  I prefer to call that hope, I'm not relying on wishful thinking anymore.   :)
longtire

- The only thing that was ever really wrong with me was that I used to think there was something wrong with *me*.  :)

bunny

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My Long, Long Story.........I no longer Feel Alone With This
« Reply #63 on: February 10, 2005, 07:11:22 PM »
Quote from: longtire
Well, I realized that this thread has turned into more of a diary than a discussion.


Maybe you had a lot to say about your process right now. I don't think it's narcissistic.

Sounds like you've had some profound insights/changes and now you're living more like a mensch. That's a good thing.

I think something like Imago is designed for people with a lot higher ego functioning than your wife has. And as for spouses being each other's therapists, that's like walking through a minefield. Even a therapist can barely help another person. What we *think* would help them might send them into a tailspin. Anyway, you've retired from being her therapist which was a wise move.

Keep the diary going!

bunny

longtire

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My Long, Long Story.........I no longer Feel Alone With This
« Reply #64 on: February 14, 2005, 11:54:32 PM »
I had therapy with my old therapist earlier today.  I was afraid and shaking some as I went in.  I dived right in explaining where I'm at with things.

My therapist said "maybe you're having a hard time making this decision because its a complicated, hard decision to make."  So simple that it never even ocurred(sp?) to me!  I've been looking for what's wrong with me.  I never stopped to think that maybe its just plain HARD!  He also said, that maybe I'm biting off too big a piece to work on.  Instead of worrying about whether there will be a next relationship and what it will be like, and whether it will be safe, just do what I need to do today with the relationship that I have now.  He suggested telling S how I feel and being vulnerable with my fear and sadness about the situation, without resorting to anger to be heard through her defenses.  I had been planning to do this in our next joint counseling anyway.

I believe that the most helpful thing he did for me today was trust me.  He didn't try to solve the problem, and in fact just barely pulled one thread of the web and trusted me to do the rest.  For where I'm at right now, it was exactly what I needed to hear, and no more.  I honestly was thinking that this was going to take a while, uncovering layer after layer.  I think that I've been building up to this for a long time.  The only thing EVER wrong with me is that I kept trying to convince myself that there was something wrong with me, instead of there being womething wrong with the people I grew up with.  I'm under no illusions that I'm through dealing with this, but I made a major step today with my therapists help, and I'll never be the same.

On the way out (literally) I realized that what I've been reluctant to let go, what I've been defending by getting angry instead of afriad or sad about is my dreams for my marriage to S.  I've gone over and over the "steps of grief" from various sources and have never read or heard this described.  I've have many, many dreams, expectations, and aspirations that I hoped, expected and longed to have fulfilled through my marriage.  These are not pipe dreams or wishes to have someone take care of me in place of me.  These are realizable goals given a committed partner, hard work and time.

I typed up a list tonight of all my hopes and dreams for this marriage, printed it, and deleted the file.  I took them outside, read them one by one and pictured them flying off.  Then I burned the list.  Very symbolic, huh?  I felt like I needed something more concrete to let these cherished hopes and dreams go.  I know that many of these will come back to roost with me again in another place and another time, but are not possible in this marriage.  I'm crying now, because these dreams weren't selfish.  They included everyone involved (wife, daughter, family and I) being fulfilled and getting their needs met.  They may be a bit idealistic, but I'm not about to give that part of myself up!  I love my dreams like the children I've never had.  Its hard to put the final nail in this coffin and admit that these beautiful dreams are truly and finally dead, but I have.

Now, I'm not sure that I even want to try to express my sadness and fear to S without getting angry.  But, I'm feeling like I want to do it for me and leave the emotional relationship in a way with closure for me.  Even if she were able to respond with connection, understanding and empathy, it is too late.  I have let go the last of my pigeons.  There is only her and I, everyone else is already gone.  All that is left is the last goodbye.

I hope that this is not overly poetic or maudlin.  I have had 2 glasses of wine tonight.  If it is, well, this is really me in the moment.  I don't know what else to say, goodnight.
longtire

- The only thing that was ever really wrong with me was that I used to think there was something wrong with *me*.  :)

longtire

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My Long, Long Story.........I no longer Feel Alone With This
« Reply #65 on: February 15, 2005, 12:42:29 PM »
This morning's update:  I woke up to find a note from my wife saying that she was not willing to continue joint counseling together.  She plans to pursue individual therapy instead.

I'd call this synchronicity, but I think there is a fairly obvious connection and interaction here.  I am struck by how often lately I've noticed "coincidences" happening in my life.  I honestly don't know if they were there before and I didn't notice, or if they are happening more frequently now that I am more open to them.  Either way, I really have the feeling that some things are meant to be.

I plan to talk with my wife tonight and let her know that I have decided to get a divorce in a non-confrontational way.  That is, I plan to be non-confrontational in both this discussion and throughout the divorce.  I know I can, now.  I no longer need to be angry to protect my dreams.  I may feel afraid and I know that I'll feel sad, but I no longer need to feel angry to protect myself, no matter how my wife decides to act.
longtire

- The only thing that was ever really wrong with me was that I used to think there was something wrong with *me*.  :)

mum

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My Long, Long Story.........I no longer Feel Alone With This
« Reply #66 on: February 15, 2005, 12:47:08 PM »
Longtire:  I believe what you are seeing is that you are indeed creating what you want.
Inspirational.

bunny

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My Long, Long Story.........I no longer Feel Alone With This
« Reply #67 on: February 15, 2005, 01:38:30 PM »
Quote from: longtire
This morning's update:  I woke up to find a note from my wife saying that she was not willing to continue joint counseling together.  She plans to pursue individual therapy instead.


I think your wife senses that you are going to say something she doesn't want to hear [in joint therapy] so if she cuts that avenue off, everything will be "okay."

If you have decided to divorce her, there is no confrontation needed. You just present it as a decision. Unfortunately the confrontations will come later, and they will be rough: about money, visitation (can't remember if your daughter is a minor), etc. She will be a woman scorned and no matter how nice you are about it, that won't matter. It's not about you, it's about her emotional problems. Get a good attorney.

bunny

longtire

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My Long, Long Story.........I no longer Feel Alone With This
« Reply #68 on: February 15, 2005, 03:24:58 PM »
bunny, I also wonder whether this is a reaction to finding out that we were going to start using a tape recorder at the sessions.  If she really weren't saying anything, I would expect her to welcome this step to prove her case.  I think that the thing she is most angry with me about is that I don't take her word for things anymore, I trust my own judgement now.  I leave open the door for her to have influence with me, but not to be in control or power over me anymore.

As for the divorce, I'm going to start a new thread to get some suggestions from people who have been at this point.  I'll take the deatils there.
longtire

- The only thing that was ever really wrong with me was that I used to think there was something wrong with *me*.  :)

Anonymous

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thank you
« Reply #69 on: February 15, 2005, 03:31:16 PM »
I have not read the entire discussion, but I did want to thank you, longtire, for sharing your story.  You see, I had a mother very much like S's, and while I have tried very hard to recover from her, your story also made me see that I have copied some very hurtful, maladaptive behavior from her.  My beloved husband should not be the victim of that behavior, but I fear that I do hurt him sometimes.  I am trying to learn better, so I can give him better.

I am probably simply repeating what others have said, but please, please, get out of this relationship and reach toward someone who will recognize and honor you for who you are.  You have fought the good fight.  If S insists on living out her life in delusional misery, there is nothing you can do about it.  For your own sake and your daughter's, prove that something better is indeed possible.

I will pray for you.  I just wanted you to know that your story touched and helped me, and I hope you find peace in someone's arms.  You deserve it.

longtire

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My Long, Long Story.........I no longer Feel Alone With This
« Reply #70 on: February 15, 2005, 06:28:42 PM »
Guest,

Quote from: Guest
I have not read the entire discussion, but I did want to thank you, longtire, for sharing your story. You see, I had a mother very much like S's, and while I have tried very hard to recover from her, your story also made me see that I have copied some very hurtful, maladaptive behavior from her. My beloved husband should not be the victim of that behavior, but I fear that I do hurt him sometimes. I am trying to learn better, so I can give him better.


I hope that you can tell your husband this directly.  If so, you are very far ahead of where my wife is right now.  Just recognizing that you have these issues and that they affect the person or people you care about is a huge ability.  Working to make changes to interact better the people you care about shows your ability not only to love, but to act on that love, which is most difficult of all.

Quote from: Guest
I am probably simply repeating what others have said, but please, please, get out of this relationship and reach toward someone who will recognize and honor you for who you are. You have fought the good fight. If S insists on living out her life in delusional misery, there is nothing you can do about it. For your own sake and your daughter's, prove that something better is indeed possible.


I can't hear it too often!  I realize at this point that there is nothing I can do to make the relationship work out.  I'm also aware of the issues that kept me here so long and have dealt with them.  I know that better relationships are out there, I have no doubt.  I look forward to that, but for now I'll fight the battle of the day, and leave tomorrow's battles for tomorrow.

Quote from: Guest
I will pray for you. I just wanted you to know that your story touched and helped me, and I hope you find peace in someone's arms. You deserve it.


Prayer and kind thoughts always help.  Thank you very much, your kindness means a lot to me.
longtire

- The only thing that was ever really wrong with me was that I used to think there was something wrong with *me*.  :)

onlyrenting1

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My Long, Long Story.........I no longer Feel Alone With This
« Reply #71 on: February 15, 2005, 09:34:19 PM »
longtire

Quote
typed up a list tonight of all my hopes and dreams for this marriage, printed it, and deleted the file. I took them outside, read them one by one and pictured them flying off. Then I burned the list. Very symbolic, huh? I felt like I needed something more concrete to let these cherished hopes and dreams go. I know that many of these will come back to roost with me again in another place and another time, but are not possible in this marriage. I'm crying now, because these dreams weren't selfish. They included everyone involved (wife, daughter, family and I) being fulfilled and getting their needs met. They may be a bit idealistic, but I'm not about to give that part of myself up! I love my dreams like the children I've never had. Its hard to put the final nail in this coffin and admit that these beautiful dreams are truly and finally dead, but I have.



I'm crying with you, how can you make the blind see, what they can't feel. You tried every way to make her see the light, but she believes it is you who is blind. She has 20/20 in the mirror, it will be her only view.
 ( I can be korny sometimes, sorry)

 I'm feeling sad for you, but I feel your strength to let go. Don't let your guard down, it's your kindness that is counted on, remember your anger is not always a bad thing, use it to keep your guard up.

onlyrenting

longtire

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My Long, Long Story.........I no longer Feel Alone With This
« Reply #72 on: February 16, 2005, 06:39:42 PM »
onlyrenting1,
I have no problem being kind :) , and don't feel the need to be angry anymore (for now).  I'm in touch with what I feel, which tells me what I want.  Then I can decide what the best way to meet my need or want is.  As long as I am aware and advocating for myself, I don't feel afraid (that general fear thing) or defensive.  I will continue to be protective without being defensive for both my and my daughter's interests.  What a difference that is for me.


Evidently, my wife FAXed a copy of the "I'm not doing joint counseling" letter to the counselor as well.  That seems more obviously avoidant than usual on her part.  Usually she does the passive avoidance or "talk to everybody to get them on my side" kind of thing.  She has hardly been at the house except to sleep for the past week, since her individual counseling.  I have a call into the counselor saying "thanks for your help" as closure for me.

My mood  has been bouncing up and down a bit, but 90% of the time anymore I feel peaceful, connected, and hopeful.
longtire

- The only thing that was ever really wrong with me was that I used to think there was something wrong with *me*.  :)

longtire

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Mad@!@$%
« Reply #73 on: February 17, 2005, 06:15:50 PM »
I'm angry!  I'm angry that I have to do all this work to protect myself from getting divorced from someone who only took advantage of me.  Why doesn't she have to prove that she deserves to get anything from me?  Why shouldn't she have to do the work to have to prove that she deserves any of my money.  Money=time=mylife.  Why should I need to worry about what selfish, unrealistic things she is going to do or say, when she can count on me to continue to be the stable, reliable, calm, honest one?

I would be thrilled! to meet a woman who is as committed, conscientious, spiritual, loving, open, accepting, supportive, and hardworking as I am!  I wouldn't treat her like s@#t, blame everything on her, refuse to admit to reality, avoid all responsibility, verbally and emotionally abuse her.  I'd work to get my act together to keep someone like that in my life!

I'm mad at my parents for not giving me the tools I needed to recognize a leech and throw her out of my life.  I'm mad at her parents for starting these problems and raising her to feel entitled to take anything she pleases and not have to lift an emotional finger and still be able to look herself in the mirror every day.  Aaaghhghfhghfhhrhrrrrrh!

Why does the one who has already given so much with so little in return, still called on to give some more?  I made a mistake and lot a lot, so now I owe some more?  Why can't I sue her for breach of the marriage contract that said Love, Honor and Obey?  I didn't get any of those.  Why aren't things setup for me to show that she violated the agreement, and she's out?  Why are things setup so that the lazy, selfish, hateful one gets to continue to take from the hard working, responsible, caring one?  The world is not anywhere close to fair and that SUCKS!

Why do I care so much about this and she doesn't give s%&t about ending things, except for how much of "her" money she's going to lose?  Why am I the one still walking on eggshells to keep from upsetting her during the divorce?  Screw that.  I'm taking care of me and my daughter.  If she pulls something shitty, I'll make sure that everyone knows it.  No more keeping things under wraps because of my shame.  I'll make sure that everyone knows what knid of a person she is and how she doesn't keep her word.  I'll make sure everyone knows about the verbal and emotional abuse I've put up with over the years.  I'll even make sure they know about the sexual frigidity and the financial irresponsibility.  Why should I care, it reflects on her exactly how it should reflect on her.  I'm not afraid to be seen as the crazy, out of control one by bringing this up anymore!  If people want to get sucked into her fake social front and believe her over me, thenI don't want them within 10 miles of me anyway.

I've been having a crappy day today because I wasn't letting all this out.  I only hope that she feels as miserable as I do, whether she is aware of it or not.  Why should I feel crappy about it?  I've demonstrated my worth and committment in a very difficult situation.  I should be strutting around like a peacock!  I've got some issues, but I can work them out instead of running away all the time.

What does it say about her that she couldn't make it work with someone who was trying so hard?  I didn't want her to have a different personality or change who she is.  I did want her to grow up and grow out of the crap her mother fed her growing up.  She is too concerned with living up to her perfect image to even be halfway decent.  She is still more concerned with meeting her mother's expectations that the adult man that she married to use and takes his money.  She needs to go back home and live with her mommy if that's what she wants.  I wanted her to stop denying reality and work on her crap that is hurtful and prevents any kind of intimacy.  I wanted her to stop blaming me for every single problem, see me for who I am, and take responsibility for her words and actions (or lack thereof).  If that's too much to ask, to too bad.  I'm damn picky and I'm too stubborn to give up going for what I want.  I don't believe it's too much to ask from someone who pledged to love you until they died.  Talk, touch and grow!
longtire

- The only thing that was ever really wrong with me was that I used to think there was something wrong with *me*.  :)

bunny

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My Long, Long Story.........I no longer Feel Alone With This
« Reply #74 on: February 17, 2005, 07:18:24 PM »
longtire,

A long overdue rant, eh? :)

Well your feelings are quite reasonable. It's a bummer. But your life will (after this upheaval) be a lot better.

bunny