My Long, Long Story.........I no longer Feel Alone With This

[Anonymous]

Hi Longtire:

Just a minor point re your working toward forgiving your wife, self, and re appogizing etc:

I have done enough for this point, and can pick that back up when I've done more of my own work. That whole baby steps, walking with leg shackles thing.

I was trying to give you credit for the work you have done so far and encouragement that you are well on your way there.  I was trying to let you know that it seems like you have done and are doing a good job so far, not direct you to work on this, or advise you in any way.  Did I mess up??

GFN

[Brigid]

GFN,
I am going to jump in and speak for Longtire as an outside observer.

I was trying to let you know that it seems like you have done and are doing a good job so far, not direct you to work on this, or advise you in any way. Did I mess up??

I don't think you messed up in any way and I don't think he felt you were pushing him to do something he's not ready to do. You were just stating that forgiveness is something to strive for.   He was just responding that it will take time for him to get to that part of the equation.  I think that is true for all of us. There are so many factors that enter into how the divorce came about in the first place that vary drastically from relationship to relationship and how the separation and divorce is handled also play a major part in the whole forgiving and forgetting.  

In one of the few discussions I have had with my husband since our separation, when I was demonstrating some anger regarding the lies he told or whatever, he just looked at me and said, "but I told you I was sorry."  My question would have to be, "What part of what you did are you sorry for?"  There was so much, but he would never have understood that.  If I spent two hours listing all the things he should be sorry for, he would tune me out after the first 10 seconds and say the affair is really the only thing that he did wrong and he truly felt justified even with that, because, after all, he was just trying to find happiness.

I guess my point is, and I don't think its rocket science, that it will depend on how deep the hurt is as to how long it will take for forgiveness to come, if ever.  But it is certainly something to strive for and can be a huge healing agent and relief from a very heavy burden.

Sorry if I just insinuated myself, but I didn't want you to think you said something or did something wrong, GFN.  IMO at least you did not.

Brigid

[longtire]

GFN, I was going to write a long reply, but ditto what Brigid said.  I was merely pointing out where I am right now in forgiving my wife as well as admitting my own mistakes and errors in our relationship.  No comment intended on your statements.  (Which I agree with, BTW.)

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 4:31 pm    Post subject:     Reply with quote
Oh yeah... I forgot to add...

start the countdown, she's going to ask you for money again.

Stormchild, you win!  She asked if I had thought more about getting belated Christmas money last night.  I told her that I hadn't really thought about it (true!).  She didn't say anything else about it.  I didn't even have time to setup the betting pool here! (Maybe sarcasm is not such a bad response after all....)

[Anonymous]

Hi all:

Brigid:

Sorry if I just insinuated myself, but I didn't want you to think you said something or did something wrong, GFN. IMO at least you did not.

Thanks Brigid.  You really are sweet to say so.

I'm not really feeling as if I messed up...yet.  I'm just asking because  I just want to know if Longtire felt that I was directing him, and if so, then I must have messed up somewhat, by not saying what I was trying to say correctly. That's all.

I guess my point is, and I don't think its rocket science, that it will depend on how deep the hurt is as to how long it will take for forgiveness to come, if ever.

I think of forgiveness as a choice, my choice.  I decide to forgive.  I don't need appologies (although.....they certainly help me to consider trusting the person again....depending on a number of other factors).  Often times there never will be any appologies, so if I wait around for them, I'll be waiting forever.  I can decide to forgive if I want to.  No time limits.

Forgiveness.....is for me.  (not so much for the other person/event).  I don't like carrying anger and resentment around inside me, it feels crappy, and I try to get rid of it....express it....release it.   I always feel better when I let go of these feelings.  Holding onto them, just seems self-destructive.  They are powerful feelings that can become the focus of my emotional status, if I'm not careful.

Once they are mostly gone, once I no longer feel a whole lot of anger toward, or resent a person or event, I find it is easier to decide to forgive.

How deep the person/event hurt me?  Aren't they all deep?  Don't they all cause pain and upset my life?  If I try to measure which person/event hurt the most....do I then say......it was too deep so I will always feel this huge amount of anger and resentment and therefore will never be able to forgive?

For me.......I must work at releasing those feelings, reducing their hold, and then make a decision on it.  It's for my own well-being, mostly.  Forgiving brings a feeling of a weight being lifted.  It does not mean that I forgive the behaviour, attitude, intention, of anyone.  It just means I forgive the person for not being perfect.  I don't forget their actions.  I don't trust that they won't act that way again.....unless they do much more to indicate so.  But I do decide to forgive people and it helps me when I do.

That's just me.  Sorry to rant along here.   It might be completely weird sounding.  It's just what works for me.

GFN

[Stormchild]

Stormchild, you win!  She asked if I had thought more about getting belated Christmas money last night.  I told her that I hadn't really thought about it (true!).  She didn't say anything else about it.  I didn't even have time to setup the betting pool here! (Maybe sarcasm is not such a bad response after all....)

Actually, Long, I wasn't really joking, just cynically worldweary so it sounded that way.

They become kind of pathetically transparent, after a while. She really seems only to be interested in $, so whenever she makes nice on you, it's probably about $.

I'm very very sorry.

[Brigid]

GFN,

For me.......I must work at releasing those feelings, reducing their hold, and then make a decision on it. It's for my own well-being, mostly. Forgiving brings a feeling of a weight being lifted. It does not mean that I forgive the behaviour, attitude, intention, of anyone. It just means I forgive the person for not being perfect.

You are oh, so right and I completely agree with you--in theory.  Unfortunately, my personality doesn't always allow for that and try as I might, sometimes I just can't let go.  I know this is a flaw in my character and certainly something I need to work on.  But I go back to my original statement of it depends on how deep the hurt is as to how long or how easily I can reach a point of forgiveness.  

I know that the lack of forgiveness creates anxiety and continues to give the transgressor power over me.  It takes energy away from moving forward and feeling better and healing and... and... and.  Pragmatically I know all these things.  I talk to my T about it almost weekly.  But . . . and this is a HUGE but, the level to which my H deceived, hurt, diminished, crushed, humiliated, etc., etc., me is something I will not soon get past.  I think part of it comes from being so angry at myself for not seeing what was going on, but mainly it is because of how much I trusted him and how highly I thought of him only to find out it was all a lie.  I felt like I had entered the Twilight Zone and my H had been replaced with some alien being.

This is a long-winded answer to a simple point that you are right and I strive to believe as you do and I work on that daily.

Brigid

[bunny]

Brigid,

There is no flaw in your character (IMO). It is actually not wise or prudent to forgive an abuser who is still actively causing trouble in one's life. That isn't the time to do it. Maybe you can forgive his squeezing the toothpaste from the top of the tube but that's about it right now. And some things are unforgivable; only God can handle that level of forgiveness. You don't have to. You can accept him as a sick person who did the best he could to function with his severe psychiatric problems. And it was very damaging to all concerned and we hope he gets help and leaves us alone. Maybe that's as close to forgiveness as anyone could hope for.

take care,
bunny

[Brigid]

Bunny,
Thank you for forgiving me my inability to forgive my H.  I still always go back to the Wendy Cope poem:

I can't forgive you.
Even if I could, you wouldn't pardon me for seeing through you.
And yet I can't cure myself of love
Of who I thought you were before I knew you.

She could have crawled into my heart and felt what is there when she wrote that.

Brigid

[Lara]

DEAR Brigid,
I feel for you so much. You have been through a MUCH worse time than I have, but I think those two points of Wendy Cope's poem are the real killers:
1. the difficulty in forgiving
2. the difficulty in 'curing ourselves of love' for the person we thought was in the relationship with us.

Sending you a huge hug,
Lara.

[longtire]

Oh boy!  I'm having a good day!  First of all I have been getting caught up on sleep.  I slept all the way through the night last night!  Between detaching from my wife's stuff, learning more about the situation every day (reading SWOE now), and getting enough sleep, the world looks like a great place again!  More importantly, I feel like myself again.

Plus, I got the house!  I'm going in this afternoon to take care of all the paperwork and pick up the keys.  I will move out by this weekend.  Now, I just have a "few" things to do to get ready:  clean the house, pack my stuff, tell my wife and daughter, shop for appliances, move, unpack....  Good thing I've got my energy back, I'm going to need it!  

[daylily]

   
YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Great news.  So happy for you!

daylily

[just a guest]

I'm so happy for you, Longtire

Hurrraaaaay    

D.R.

[Stormchild Guesting]

Yee-HAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                     

[Brigid]

Longtire,

Way to go brother  

Blessings on the new house.

((((((Longtire)))))))

Brigid

[bunny]

longtire,

Mazel tov! I hope and believe you'll be very happy in your new abode.

bunny