Relationship/s

[Hopalong]

Really good T. She said (you'll recognize MANY of your own wise perceptions):

It wasn't expectations, it was your hopes. They are what they are. Powerful longing.
How you felt was because good timing or not, it was a small and real heartbreak.
You DID work through it in two days. Not a year.
You have nothing to be ashamed of.
He was honest, you were honest.
It was great that you told him how you felt so far.
You can try a meeting or two as friends and if you then find you can't manage it, you just tell him so, and then withdraw.

About the Daddy thing. I'm really glad that suddenly came into my mind, and T got it. It's true. I want to be with someone KIND and HONEST. M was ultimately neither. I got so excited about the Scot because I have a feeling these are his values, too.

It's a good Daddy issue, if I'm right. Doesn't hurt after so many "users" to have some strong inner clarity about what kind of person I want to spend more time with. Doesn't have to be the Scot if that fizzles as it probably already has. But it's a super-clear indicator of what are the most important qualities to tune into. Not dazzling resumes or education or all that gravy, but CHARACTER.

I think the Scot may have that. This does not mean he's fully available to me. He said he's "not ready." The rest...what does "not ready" mean -- is it a softer FULL NO or just a measure of TIMING? (Does "not ready" mean his goal is "ready later.")

I asked T ... do you think I could simply ask him that? She said absolutely, and it would be very healthy to! Who knew?

So, aha. Instead of suppressing a question like that for fear of "appearing" over-eager or desperate or whatever, that's actually adult/rational brain. Asking for information that will help me decide in the real whether friendship will work for ME.

T just wants me to keep the focus on him being a friend to me as well as the other way around.

I feel a lot of relief and T doesn't think I should criticize myself for innate traits. It may cause me difficulty to be highly sensitive and emotional. But that's what I am. Built in.

I feel better. And SO much of that is due to you guys. Thank you. You don't even send me bills!

hugs
Hops

[lighter]

Hops,

I think you moved through the Scot feelings beautifully.  It's difficult to look deeply into painful emotions.....to see what's behind it. 

Well done.

Esp suspending judgment of yourself. 

Lighter

[Hopalong]

Thank you again, Amber and you too, Lighter.

I am feeling not just better but HAPPY, because I finally figured it out. I have reached the holy grail of really seeing what just happened over the last few days. Had lots of support and wisdom (especially here) and help, too. And I got there.

The recent emotional crisis uncovered several new/unaware layers and really taught me some important new things. One thing was how deep my missing kind "Dad" goes. I didn't realize it was still in there, so many years later.  I figured out that projecting all those humanistic qualities sooo strongly onto the Scot before I really know him was about how deeply I've missed having and trusting a man (similar to my Dad) who is KIND and HONEST and ETHICAL in relationships, not just in professed values. Honestly, kindness is the IT factor. Not just a word but absolutely the first and most important character quality I'm looking for. D'uh!!!

I suddenly saw in complete clarity how I have had decades of relationships in which after a while I figured out that no matter how well I held compassion for and really understood different men, my track record is having chosen a lot of them who were just unkind. !!??!!  (I have even wondered if in some unconscious way by trying to "fix" or "change through love" a bunch of men like that I was trying to fix my sociopathic, cruel bully brother (and get his love back). Yikes. And probably.

Apparently when I was very little I adored him. When he went off to kindergarten and I was still home, the story goes that I'd go into his room and get one of his shirts and wear it all day until he came back. (My how things change...I'd rather burn one today! But I think as a tiny girl, he might've been my world.)

Major relationships: First love cheated (with my best friend), Husband #1 yelled nonstop and had a punitive streak, husband #2 lied pathologically, married lover (my fault) strung me along, a narcissist local artist was just that, super-executive conservative dude just wanted to dominate, M's a charming narcissist with all that implies. I think after M I DO feel ready to recognize the RIGHT qualities in a man, and when I thought I saw a whole bushel of them in D, I totally lost my balance.

My T and poet both think this is overall a good sign and a "birth" of a new big awareness.

Kind of feels that way to me too. All I know is that I'm back within myself, no longer scared, and feeling alive and present. Whatever the Scot does or doesn't do.

Whew.

hugs
Hops

[lighter]

I have a great big smile reading your post, Hops.  It all made sense and I feel certain you'll have more clarity around all new relationships.

Clarity is a very good thing!
:: Nodding::.

Lighter🎃

[Twoapenny]

Aw, well done, Hopsie, those lightbulb moments are amazingly helpful when they come.  It makes sense that you're experiencing the loss of you dad when this happens, not just the understandable disappointment when a chap you like isn't available.  I hope you're doing okay and it hasn't brought up a lot more loss - it can be hard to close the gate again once it's opened (I think we've all been there!).

And I don't know about you, but these days I find it increasingly rare to meet someone that I click with, who has traits and habits that I admire and who I genuinely want to spend more time with and get to know better, male or female.  Most of the time I just want to get away and avoid people   Lol, so I think it is hard when you meet one of those rare gems, the excitement comes and then if they aren't able to continue, for whatever reason, it is a bit of a blow.  But hopefully now that you feel a lot clearer about what it is you're looking for in a person it might be a bit easier to wade through potential applicants   I'm imagining some sort of eligible gentlemans' clearing house now.  Lol xx

[Hopalong]

Thanks, Tupp. It really was a lightbulb moment and I'm grateful for it. Maybe more like a lightning bolt moment. I'm very glad those layers peeled away and I suddenly saw the underneath story. I honestly hadn't seen it and it's been lifelong. I'm sorry I didn't see the pattern with clarity sooner, but it got through when it did and I feel lucky about it.

I'll take insight as one of the greatest gifts in life. Smooth tidy insight that fits in the dresser would be nice, but in my life/nature more often it kind of explodes.

I think that's good, though. Maybe it's some form of essence or personal lessons being concentrated or more intense during this chapter of life.

I've been very tired over the last few days. Must've been all that emotional exercise. But awake-tired. Thinking-tired. Etc. All very much worth it.

Thanks for the encouragement, dear Tupp. I don't expect anything particular to happen any time soon but I'm doing a dutiful check-in on the website and am connecting with new writing groups locally. ALL of that is good for me.

And since poetry is connected directly to my heart, if I am writing more and connecting finally with the local poet community, I will be finding connections in a way, regardless. Important ones for me.

big hugs to you,
Hops

[Twoapenny]

Aw, Hopsie, I'm glad it was a constructive lightbulb moment, sometimes those realisations can be like tsunamis of so much unexpressed stuff coming out but it's great when they give you clarity and things just make more sense.  Quite nice it's come now, I think, with the possibility of a difficult winter ahead, and it's so lovely that you're connecting with writing groups.  I think that way of being around people that you can have those connections with (even if it's online rather than face to face) is so nice.  I'm really pleased that it's all kind of made sense and lined up like this xx

[Hopalong]

Thanks, Tupp!
I just got invited by a local Serious Poet (teaches at the university also) to join a poetry workshop group. My goal is to present (for many, revise) all the poems I've written since my first collection in the late '70s.

It all happened because poet friend introduced me to those two poets I already meet with, and one of them forwarded an invite to give a live reading, and the best poet there offered to plug me into the loop with good quality poetry events/workshops etc. Happened in a week. He also sent me his own manuscript, which is lovely.

It does feel good. In other respects I'm not feeling very well, can't sleep and had some chest pangs and SOB during the night. I think if I conk out for a few more hours I'll feel better. (Two days ago I slept right through the most important meeting about the refugees. Woke up from a nap not knowing whether it was AM or PM. Was upset but got caught up with the group and back on track.)

Thanks for noticing and caring, Tupp. The downs get balanced out by the UPS, and all this poetry stuff is a huge UP.

BTW, I got a very sincere and sweet email from The Nun and I accepted her apology completely, as she did mine. We'll get together sometime in the next couple weeks. I'm glad it wasn't a friendship-ending conflict and that we each handled it well.

hugs
Hops

[lighter]

I'm trying to stay rooted in the moment, Hops.  My first reaction to your finding the poets is.... I wish you found the poets and poet events a year ago, 2..... more, many years ago.

Then I remember...... you found them/they found you at the right time and this is happening now.

I missed a little of the joy around that.... wasted it on rumination. Even if it was just a little.  I noticed and noted it.

I'm happy for you and the other poets.  You'll all benefit through this connection.  Golly.... seems such a positive connection for all of you.  Like lightening in manuscripts and pens.

As for the Nun....I've just gone through a bit of the same dance with my friend..... the one who lost her husband recently was here for Halloween and there was no husband buffering or me tiptoeing around his demise in their shared space to buffer the rough spots.  Well....I'll write about it on another thread, but I'm happy the Nun reached out.  My friend and I are Ok too.

Lighter

[Hopalong]

I hear you on the rumination, Lighter.

It truly is sad that I didn't have the insight-tsunami about my men-choices decades ago. I really regret it. I think I often got nearly drowned by deep and unconscious drives to "fix" childhood wounds; particularly the brother ones. Especially now, when I long for a life partner more than I ever have before and candidates are harder to come by, I'm regretful it didn't come sooner. But things happen when they do (I don't think there's "always a reason" but accept that they just happen). And I don't give up.

I think it's okay to accept that it's a sad revelation at the very same time that it's positive and a great relief to have been swomped on the head with it. Both things exist together; we're just currents of learning all the way through life. 'Tis what 'tis.

I'd rather die in the middle of a meaningful learning experience than decide I'm done.

"Sad" and "die" aren't negative words for me, just words. If I weren't balancing them inside with "happy" and "change" maybe they'd be "bad" -- but I'm feeling overall good about it. A little melancholy, but that's the season it is -- life, pandemic, physical changes. Gratitude, even in spurts, really helps me keep going.

Glad things are sorting out with your friend as well!

hugs
Hops

[Hopalong]

I've been doing a big, reflective "review" of my last (hope that doesn't mean "last" as in "never another") relationship. Because M and I emailed so much and I expressed so much here and in emails to friends, I really have a clearer picture and it's helpful. Very helpful.

I saw something I was startled by, because I hadn't recognized this as part of my behavior to the extent it clearly was. Pleasing, placating, smoothing over, quickly forgiving-on-steroids to the point that I never demanded that a big boundary breach be genuinely owned by him. Probably, and probably unconsciously, I knew on SOME level that if I ever held him actually accountable and expected a mature response around that, it'd be over. I would apologize every time I realized my own comment or behavior had been hurtful or inappropriate. Immediately. Part of my code. But he just couldn't. I think his ego structure is very fragile. I have never felt badly about myself for saying "I was wrong." It's relief. Clears the path to go on. But way way back, the machismo or privilege or power or whatever in his family told him, Never Admit Fault. Never Apologize. I feel badly for the boy taught that. It harmed him.

I also saw in this review how real it was for some time. I really did love M. and buy the whole mythic fantasy he ginned up. (It's amazing that I met someone who's a worse fantasist than I am.) But only I am responsible for buying into it all for so long and letting it become trance behavior of a sort.

I'm the one responsible for allowing us to go on too long and take up more of my life than it should have once the writing was on the wall. It helps now to think of my T's perspective, that when I do see clearly what is real (see instead of glance at), I act. And it's taking me less time than it used to. That's the one step forward.

So that's put to bed. Not without any sadness but not disabling and definitely an important threshold relationship. I'm grateful for many parts of it. Now, I am either passing into a fulfilling future alone or perhaps even with a partner one day. But forward. Forward in time. Not back. Being in my present now is about health, growth and readiness. Really, more genuinely, caring for myself.

More on that in another thread. I hope all of you are doing okay. That Season is creeping up; I'll be holding all of you in my heart.

hugs
Hops

 

[lighter]

What important insights, Hops. 

I do believe you'll be available and responsive when new relationships present themselves.

Sorry for short post.... I'm in the weeds, deep.

Lighter

[Hopalong]

Thank you so much, ((((Lighter))))).

I think a lot of us are "in the weeds" right now.
Either overwhelmed by the present, processing the past, or just distracted and busy as this key season change kicks in during pandemic times. Takes effort and time!

When I feel any anxiety about fallow times on the Board, I remind myself I have resources and can still do productive thinking or reaching out.

It's all good. But I really did appreciate your message today.

big hugs,
Hops

[Hopalong]

After relaxing a bit too much this evening, I thought of my T's suggestion that I could always contact the Scot and be a grownup: just say, are we on the same page about friendship? (Since he'd never responded since saying he'd be calling after "at least a week" in NYC for work.)

Hmmm. I wrote this:

I was thinking you're probably back from NYC by now; hope all went well. I was also thinking that saying you would call was a friendly impulse but perhaps not one that really suits you at this point.

Thought I'd honor your offer of friendship by checking in. I expected nothing but enjoyed the idea!

He responded instantly that he'd like to meet me for coffee next week (and NYC never happened, some long story). Hmmmm again.

So I said okay, and if it's cold out I'll invite him here bringing his own coffee, since I just have tea on hand.

Very odd. Don't feel worked up about it one way or another. It's pleasant to realize I haven't thought about him at all for weeks.

So I dunno what sort of meaning this has, if any. I imagine I'll just be calm and see what he talks about. No more drama.

But it's...interesting. Maybe this is the sort of stay-in-neutral-while-being-yourself-and-being-observant kind of thing Lighter and Amber always advise.

I'll give it a try. Nothing to lose.

Hmmmm?

hugs
Hops

[Phyll]

Hopalong, I think it is much less scary approaching this as a friendship.  I recall you wrote that he quit drinking.  That may be a lot of pressure for him to learn how to date again after a long marriage and without the use of a social lubricant. You are being a friend by meeting him where he is at.  Coffee or tea and maybe some baked goods to snack on?  A card or board game maybe - or share some pics of your recent trip, or books you read?  Have a nice visit!