Relationship/s

[Hopalong]

Thanks, ((((Tupp)))).

I'm feeing if not happy about relationships at the mo', at least clear. My denial and fantasy buttons have been damaged. I'm thankful for that. I feel more reconciled with what is real, rather than my eternally busy internal fantasy machine.

About M? The disappointment is really final. I don't expect he'll rise from the ashes of unawareness and become my contrite, recomitted, self-aware life partner. (Unless I'm desperate at 85 and take him up on his offer of a spare bedroom in a schmancy retirement place. That would be a bitter and sorrowful end, but who knows, I might make peace with it in response to exigencies. We'll see. I SO doubt it. Or perhaps our clumsy "friendship" will prove more sustaining than it is now. Could be ancient history by then.)

About C. Been thinking about him with my realism cap jammed over my brow. I sincerely doubt we're a good match, but imagine we'd have fun getting to know each other -- bantering/debating (the usual thing that happens with smart powerful men who seem to delight in pushback from a female-poet-outspoken human who bears NO RESEMBLANCE to the milieux or values that have guided their alpha rises.) That's okay. I like challenge and lively conversation and intellectual equality, and so do they, generally. However. If I'm in full control of my sanity I will remember: this process of opening to the possibility of good things happening -- is about my OWN dream of vital shared and trusting life companionship. Not dates that are like exciting movies, which end.

So that's a big change. I want/intend to remember: this is my LIFE, not just my evening. And I'm going to hold onto what is True North for me and my own life journey. Not what would just entertain and/or excite them.

I think I can do it. Maintain reality.

That's new! OMG.

hugs
Hops

[lighter]

Hear! Hear! To Hops knowing and trusting her own true North....and trusting it's wisdom.

Yes

Lighter

[sKePTiKal]

If I'm in full control of my sanity I will remember: this process of opening to the possibility of good things happening -- is about my OWN dream of vital shared and trusting life companionship. Not dates that are like exciting movies, which end.

Quoted for truth.  LOL.

But in reality this first stage of relationship is kinda like a seesaw Hops. Sometimes one is more centered in those romantic feelings (or else, why bother?) and sometimes in the reality of what your goals are for your future. I just can't picture you forming a functional relationship that provides stability and more resources and companionship in old age - WITHOUT a wee bit more than "respectful affection" on the flip side of the coin. So, like a team of horses, you need to get them to work together, not independently "take charge" of direction. And sometimes that's helped or hindered by the partner.

As to C giving you some space - who knows the reason why? It may be something "normal" for him... and he stepped down his participation onlne, respecting your request. Maybe he has a busy couple of weeks. And maybe he's moving on to someone more immediately accessible... as long as you remember that you were looking for someone you might be interested in (and vice versa) when you agreed to communicate/meet... and that if he walks away it's probably the universe telling YOU to move to on to something better -- and not a personal permanent condemnation of who you are; all will be well.

I think sometimes when we let the fantasy horse lead, one can let the heart space start to "believe" prematurely. It's secret, you know. Except it's not, really. It's better to keep a tight rein on that horse. Pay attention to the practical plodder more and give the whole team more time and practice before making that decision to let the heart space just do it's thing. If one stands in our power of choice and discernment when those feelings start to filter in, and threaten to wander away into the more imaginative and emotionally charged thoughts - one is better able to protect one's own "touchy" issues and more clearly see the partner through his actions and behaviors. By that point, one knows if one can extent enough trust to "go there" - into the heart space - and still be safe.

Sometimes that can all happen fast. Or it can be very slow and gradual. And as I kinda discovered - it can be both.

[Hopalong]

Amber, embroidering this on a sofa pillow is taking an extremely long time but I thank you for it!

...when we let the fantasy horse lead, one can let the heart space start to "believe" prematurely. It's secret, you know. Except it's not, really. It's better to keep a tight rein on that horse. Pay attention to the practical plodder more and give the whole team more time and practice before making that decision to let the heart space just do it's thing. If one stands in our power of choice and discernment when those feelings start to filter in, and threaten to wander away into the more imaginative and emotionally charged thoughts - one is better able to protect one's own "touchy" issues and more clearly see the partner through his actions and behaviors. By that point, one knows if one can extent enough trust to "go there" - into the heart space - and still be safe.

I am making progress. Sometimes my feelings in the opposite direction of the happy horserace are a clue, too.

I've been noticing in recent months (particularly since his sons' visits and how difficult it was to be held up like a girlfriend, when I ain't any more) that it's gotten harder to be around M. Avoiding it, really. Or when we get together, although it's the same rituals around meeting/eating/yakking, feeling shut down and depressed. He delights in my company (my listening) and seems perfectly comfortable with the new shape of our relationship. I no longer fantasize or hope or imagine it's anything it's not. But something was gnawing at me.

I finally realized it was that we have had absolutely ZERO conversation about how we feel or what we want as friends, and for me the whole scenario was beginning to feel fake and painful and unexpressed and if not awkward, at least superficial and strange. I can still enjoy his company but it's bittersweet and almost like a constant reminder of a dream given and then taken back, so to speak. More motivation to move on, which I YAM.

After my poetry meeting yesterday I went over and we had a real talk. I didn't rub his face in it but mentioned that I really am trying to move on, and though I don't want to reject his friendship at all, it's been a difficult process for me. I told him I am open to dating again and getting a little bit of response, and without much detail did let him know that I am doing so. He got it.

And he let one thing out that I had a shocked reaction to, internally. Although he said again that I can always count on him, I am permanently in his "circle of firelight" etc etc etc (and I have no idea how real that is)...and talked a ton about his own plans (stay right where he is and change nothing)....he also said that although he "hates to mention it" when I had the small stroke that really made him pause. And he doesn't want to risk ever losing anyone again (as when his wife died).

I get it. It's normal for older people to think about the consequences of commitment. I do too. But I guess....his cancer and his heart disease never had anything to do with me backing away, and it kind of hurt to hear him be so ... I dunno, transactional. I felt as though he was seeing me as "defective" so in spite of all the flowery transcendent language about what I meant to him then and mean still, this was another example of him saying: I'll talk love and commitment but when it comes right down to it, I won't sacrifice anything for you.

I just teased him that he couldn't even move his pepper shaker out of the way to make room for me and he got it. I'm not hating on him for his stroke comment, but found it a little bit cruel. It's the kind of thing anybody could THINK, but to tell someone to their face...I wouldn't. It's even a perfectly good reason for him to reconsider a partnership, commitment, etc. Could well be for me too, in future. I just don't get why he brought it up. Maybe it was to "get me back." Dunno, but really, it doesn't matter.

Anyway, good to know, I guess. Kind of sad.

C update. He's back from his trip and ready to plan his little train adventure to visit me. He can't make his email work consistently to save his life so I hope he pulls it off. I'm looking forward to an evening with him and he's already inviting me to the Kennedy Center etc. Not sure how much will be possible given Covid, but it's fun to have his interest. Next steps are MEET IN PERSON, then see where/whether it goes.

hugs
Hops

[lighter]

I think M was trying to hurt you back, Hops.  It was my very first thought.

It's great you have new possible relationship on your horizon. 
Enjoy.
 Boundaries in place.
Listen to your gut.
Lighter

[Hopalong]

Thank you, Lighter.
Thanks for helping me not remain in denial.

You are an excellent reality check for me about men and how they tick.

It's sometimes hard to protect ourselves against ourselves when it comes to the penis people....

hugs
Hops

[sKePTiKal]

That decision to not risk again, another person you are committed to is a personal choice. No right/wrong about it. Even when one is clear on that decision, there is second-guessing and the unexpected and unforeseen to deal with that can lead to regrets and worse.

I know this, but I made my decision and will take care of meself as best I can - and with help - and stand strong in that commitment.

Today is appt day.

[Hopalong]

I agree, Amber. I don't think he was wrong to discover that limit within himself. What might have shown more kindness, however, would have been to not go house hunting and continue to feed the Big Dream fantasies. What he did instead left me ongoingly hurt and confused as he subtly sabotaged those visions while not admitting he was no longer committed to our lifetime relationship.

Although I still have real love for M, to me, he showed a combo of selfishness and some weak personal integrity in the way he brought it up (which felt like an underhanded slice--"oh, but unfortunately you have this defect..." kind of implication-- not an adult conversation about long-term care questions). If he really loved me and cared about my wellbeing, like -- actual love rather than "I like her conversation and attention so I will keep her involved with me" -- he would have told me as a man that he was reconsidering his former declaratinos and realizing he couldn't maintain that promise of security etc, rather than letting me go through a long slow and painful disillusionment process while he just watched.

That's probably a bit harsh, because nobody fully knows themselves and every human being is capable of mixed motivations (my self included). I just have an internal high bar for honesty and not leading people on. I'm not sure M intended to do that...I'm pretty sure he believed his own hyperbole for the first year...and it's my responsibility to shake off poet-brain and light up grownup-brain to accept full responsibility for my own choices. And outcomes.

I think I'm doing that now. I choose to continue to love him in some way as a friend only. But I also choose to be less automatically available to him for his weekly dinner diversions and daily superficial email exchanges (or his evening calls to unload his day). Those were depressing me. Duh. So I'm going to tune into what I actually feel like --doing or declining-- going forward, and not automatically go along with his invites, generous (and delicious) as they might be.

hugs
Hops

[lighter]

Hops:

Deep down, do you feel healthy boundaries, applied consistently, will keep you safe in new relationships?

I don't know if I've every experienced that in a way I could make sense of, myself.  I feel like I don't know the what and how.  What I experience is reactive paralysis when THE moment to address that first boundary transgression arises.  The more irrational the transgresssion, the more paralyzed I've felt.

I have a sense of healthy boundaries working when I manage to put and keep them IN place, but it's not yet muscle memory.

I do notice reactivity falling away and it feels very hopeful.

Lighter

[Hopalong]

Yes, YES! I do believe that.

I don't know that I'll become a perfect boundary-laying machine, but I am very clear that what you so often say--watch out for the FIRST ignored boundary and correct that pronto-- is the right goal.

I am just feeling clarity, and oddly -- peace.

I think it's from conveying to M, without any anger at all, that he can't take me for granted any more. I don't need to make him a villain, but he's not my main magnet any more.

(It only took me a YEAR to untangle!)

hugs
Hops

[lighter]

I think M helped you identify your boundaries, Hops.   

He helped you find your self protective spirit....and use it.

It's sad he's emotionally immature and selfish, but that's who he is.  It wasn't about you.

You sound ready to let him go.

Light

[Hopalong]

I am, Lighter. The inner beagle is moving on. With sadness but eyes open. I think M has used me in ways, in other ways he's been real. But the not-owning anything ever, not apologizing ever, has accumulated...and the shine is off. All his hints and intimations at promises and commitment and certainty no longer ring reliable.

I don't find him emotionally reliable. I have begun to find him boring. I'm spotting his manipulative side. Rather than let my resentment build, I'm going to throttle back contact to occasionally, if I feel up for it in the moment. If I don't, I don't.
Much better for me in the long run to get the bandaid all the way off, rather than leave it dangling and ripe for infection.

I have mixed my metaphors to a beagle wearing a bandaid. Tired brain.

Speaking of tired brains, I'm concerned there might be something cognitive happening with C, whom I do not yet know. He can't seem to get communication methods straight and I'm about to let the idea go. I told him repeatedly that I don't text and he forgets. I explained I don't use my cell unless I'm away from the house but he calls me on my cell (last night after 9pm). I wasn't angry or assuming this was an intentional boundary breach because it suddenly hit me that maybe this wasn't dismissive of my requests, but a man who might be confused. He is 79. So maybe this whole fantasy that he's going to come here on a train and can successfully plan that is impeded by something on his end that I don't understand. I have a glimmer it might just be a sad reality that a clear connection and functional communication isn't happening for that reason. Hope I'm wrong but it's feeling too cloudy right now. He seems to want to chat a lot on the phone but is dragging his feet about making the plan. I will not build a phone relationship first. So maybe it's just a stalemate. That's okay but I'm real close to butting out entirely.

For a man who lives in the Watergate, I'd think he could resolve his computer issues enough to email. He says email's working fine, yet email (sent him train info) I've sent to both his addresses has started to bounce (when it worked before). He says his computer guy is "on speed dial" but didn't get it fixed yesterday and made no reference to it during our brief chat last night (I told him I was about to sleep).

He comes across as nice and as eager. I don't know enough about him to understand whether he really is okay, but I'm starting to wonder.

Oh well. Dating in one's 70s has to take aging issues into account, but this is feeling unwieldly in a weird way. I'm not blaming him as he may be unable to focus or remember stuff. But if I don't get a clear email about plans soon, I'm out.

Good for me. Yay, me.

hugs
Hops

[sKePTiKal]

I guess I didn't quite appreciate how another decade might impact the logistics required by age, impacts the old mental image & expectations of getting to know and be attracted to someone. Sure, B & I laugh a good bit about "The Old Folks' Boogie"... which ain't as easy as it once was for either of us and right now we're searching for a misplaced & forgotten coffee cup. But we've been burning the midnight oil talking, telling personal histories, and such.

Continuing to engage somONE, meet them, and even if nothing comes of the risk - keeps you healthier, Hops. It's a good thing to do, while it does have it's difficulties. I for one, am glad I kept that door open to the possibility.

Maybe the stars will line up for you pretty soon. I hope so. Maybe give C a chance to get his act together - but continue "shopping" and engaging, carefully out there? It also sounds like he's still actively engaged in a lot of work that might be distracting him, or he has underlying issues (of some sort) or even that he's not as invested in finding a lady love... as you are, for security & companionship.

[Hopalong]

You're right, Amber.
Continuing to open and look through that door, whether it results in a true-love relationship or not, is a healthy thing for me to do.

Right now I'm marveling at how I held on for a year after breaking off the illusory relationship with M, and feeling sorrow at how much grief I was trying to paper over with the convenient friendship.

Now I do feel the walls closing in, and the full weight of solitude. But I will pull out of this. I think I just have to face what the feelings are. Handily, I see my T in half an hour and will talk it through there.

I hope I have circled the drain with M for the last time, whether I ever see him or not. Just...mentally. How draining it has been. I don't want that for myself any more. I don't want deep loneliness either, but there are positive ways to combat that if I'll only step forward and arrange them.

Waiting and hoping for it to come to me amounts to waiting and hoping. I'm going to be more proactive than that, but release the damn outcome!

Dunno about C. I just have a hunch the guy is struggling, and don't want to get all involved over the phone until I can see and feel for myself, in person, what his vibe is. It's been fun but is starting to feel illusory and chaotic. Don't need that either.

SO glad you and B are together -- will check out the Farm thread when I get back!

hugs
Hops

[Hopalong]

T was helpful. I teared up for a change (almost never cry there).

I just described the way I've been feeling, weird layer peeling away by layer, since his sons came. And how irritable and stultified I've felt over our repetitive "go over for dinner once a week and talk about the same subjects and nothing personal ever." And then the Big Talk on Monday. And how he slipped in some truths: Don't wanna change my life at all for anybody, and stay here and keep me company weekly anyway but on my schedule....and: don't be a defective "stroke" person, since I might suffer if you died and that's not acceptable. And, I love your dog. (That was a good one.)

She got it. Got pretty pissed about his stroke comment. Told me I'm doing really good work. I realized I am just doing the next (and fortunately, a later) stage of grief. I really did have a lot to grieve when our relationship fell apart, and now it's not a "faux" friendship but has been a weird one since. For me. He's entirely happy with how I've been slotting into his needs.

I made a big step. He sent me the usual "come to dinner" invite and I replied that I am going to wait a week more and figure it out then. Woo HOO, brave Hops!

Who knows? By this time next week maybe I'll either be: Brave enough to cut the last thread or realize I'm strong enough to enjoy what's good that lingers and go over anyway.

Dunno which. I feel like apologizing to every friend I have for taking so long and talking so interminably about this relationship and its death or change spiral. But it's the most significant bond I've had with any man in over 20 years, and there were so many confusing carrots hanging off my halter, that it's just going to take the time it takes.

I've decided I have my own permission to bore people. Sorry, dear Amazons. But thank you...more than you know!

hugs and love,
Hops

PS-- So I sent C a message explaining the incoherent connections (email? text? -NO- dating site?) were daunting and that I sympathize and he's off the hook if it's just too cumbersome to organize. He just replied and said he'd be on the train TOMORROW. I gently explained the concept of "not without notice, I have a life" (not in so many words) and we scheduled it for later this month. Hah. Fun I hope.