Relationship/s

[Hopalong]

Thank you, Lighter.
The support, acceptance and ESPECIALLY the patience of this board has gotten me through it. There's nowhere else, not therapy, not IRL friendships, where I've been so able to "get it all out."

And while complaining about M's lacks this time, I note that I skipped over my own. Helpful to also face squarely (without self loathing) my own contributions:

--lifetime habit of falling into love-delusions because my imagination is so busy and eager to fill in my lonely spaces and relationship "adulting" is too hard
--dizzying CoD responsiveness to powerful personalities (which covers a craving to be taken care of, despite my independence)
--immense stubborness (from anxiety) about not fully letting go until I've beaten a dead horse into dogfood

I had a significant though pitiful memory the other day that I need to share with my T. When I was about 10 years old, I got to go to a sleep-away camp near another town. I was very excited. I'd had few friends and never knew how to bond with my peers (geeky, waaay sensitive, and incredibly lonely).

So when I got to camp and met everyone, I told them that although my name was Hops, everyone should call me "Honey" (sooo suthrun!) because that was my nickname. Kids rolled their eyes and I don't recall any doing it. (I was as out of step with peers there as at home). But one counselor, a young man, always looked at me directly and gently called me "Honey." The whole week.

It hit me the other day that I was truly affection starved. Though my Dad was very gentle as a personality and did offer me some cuddly closeness, he was very busy and tired. It was Nmom, I realize in retrospect, honestly never ever showed affection. She messed with me nonstop and I spent huge amounts of time with her. But her way of relating was just the nonstop talking AT me. Never with me. Her touch was brisk and efficient, but never tender.

I believe I was so affection starved that I made up a tender nickname because I had heard people -- whether someone's parent or a servant in their homes -- call them "Honey" in a warm, straight-from-the-heart (particularly maternal heart) voice.

I never heard that voice in my childhood. But I'd unconsciously felt it as a yearning, and so I declared the revealing nickname at camp. For one week, I imagined I'd be addressed as "Honey" (because strangers would believe me that everybody at home called me that) which would mean love.

Didn't work out that way (kids saw through it) but remembering, I am so grateful for that young counselor, who heard the yearning and was so kind in his response.

hugs,
Hops (no, don't need to be called "Honey" except on special occasions! LOL)

[sKePTiKal]

This all sounds good Hops. I've always admired how you've been able to compassionately unearth your feelings and accept the reality of situations. (Not to mention your ingenious way with words!)

Nothing indicates that you have to close the door on your dream. M might not be the right person to share that with - but clearly there are some of his attributes that looked promising and felt attractive. So, following the old "nothing risked, nothing gained"... you took a chance, put in the effort, and discovered there was some misperceptions/less than complete understandings. That takes bravery! And believing in yourself. Trusting yourself.

I'm a firm believer in "friendship first". And you did, as far I understand the chronology, take your time. I think you've come out the other side of that experience not just intact - but stronger. You have a better understanding now, of your standards and "need priorities" for the relationship you're dreaming about, I think.

[lighter]

LOl, you knew I'd be sitting at my keyboard so wishing I could send any small comfort, ((Hopsy))

I'm so sad for your brave and creative little child's heart at camp.  So grateful for that attuned camp counselor who saw her/you and responded.

That's such important insight.  Seeing how childhood wounds play out through a lifetime is heartbreaking and such huge relief all mixed up with processing, overcoming and new choices becoming available with astonishing clarity, ime.  Sometimes pounding like a hammer..... it's so apparent.....old patterns seem so wrong.  New choices seem so obvious, ime

Lighter

[Hopalong]

Thanks, Amber. That was so affirming.
I felt a lot better after reading your response.

I wrote this to M, and felt I was speaking clearly:

It's actually quite painful for me to be around
your family, as very much as I like them...it's emotional
and reminds me of the lost big dream and lost hopes.

Again, no blame; I'm not going there. It has been about
a year and I'm just trying to feel my way into my future as
it appears likely it will be.

It starts in the present and, for me, requires honesty and
openness. Otherwise, true closeness becomes a sham.
We both deserve better than that. Wish we could talk
about deeper things sometimes. But it's okay....your
place in my heart will always be!

Hugs and thanks,
Hops

[Hopalong]

You HAVE sent comfort, Lighter!
And your understanding that the needy little kid was also "creative" really adds strength.

I feel lots better now.

As to new choices being so obvious. You're totally right, in the rational part of things.

I'm working on that! I'm half id, half poet, half lazy daydreamer, half deluded. But my rational half totally agrees with you.

That makes me two and a half...never did like math.

hugs
Hops

[lighter]

Woo boy, Hops.

:: Hot tear rolls down L cheek::.

There's no room for new connection if we fill ourselves with other connections.  M will be fine. 

You have to be true to yourself.  M won't understand, unfortunately.  It's one reason he's not enough.

Lighter

[Hopalong]

Thank you.

And thank you!

(And no tears for me, you're feeling enough grief for others at the mo'...I'll be fine!)

hugs
Hops

[lighter]

::offering young Hops mug of 🥦 soup::

I selected a round, lovely blue hand made mug and big round soup spoon for you.

Soup.

 No more tears.
Promise.

Lighter

[Twoapenny]

Did we establish whether Buck has a brother or cousin that we can organise an introduction with?  Aw, Hopsie, I do get the Covid partner thing and the need for connection, plus the long held dreams of love, being loved, being part of a family and so on.  I do get all of that, really.  But equally I'm still hoping that you meet some lovely bohemian poet or musician or someone like that, someone who looks at what's around him and sees beauty and joy and a sense of connection.  Rather than someone who needs to constantly impress and dominate, however politely or intelligently they do that.  Do they have dating sites for poets?  Or a 'match my Pooch' site, where the dogs get to choose who they hang out with   I'm hoping that he's out there somewhere for you and I hope he gets his bum into gear and shows up soon! xx

[sKePTiKal]

LOLOLOL. Tupp, I love how your mind works.

No, B has the same kind of FOO that we do. There isn't anyone he would vouch for, in the taking care of a relationship realm. He makes no grand claims for himself, either. He is what he is and it's been a struggle to be that. I understand. I don't have lofty expectations. Just simple ones. And he can do that. So, so far.... so good.

(It FEELS however, a lot better than that. There's kinda been a meeting of the minds about "life is what you make it" and since we're both "makers" after a fashion, it works.)

[Hopalong]

Thank you, ((((Tupp)))).
You have such a kind and wise imagination.
I loved this:

someone who looks at what's around him and sees beauty and joy and a sense of connection

That's EXACTLY what I need. So, I wonder what you'd think of the rich powerful former federal prosecutor who's now wooing me (online) and eager to hop on the train and come meet me? He's raving about my use of language, intelligence, and "pretty face" in some pics. I do find him interesting, because I find all sorts of life stories fascinating. That's part of my problem. Fascinating and exciting can rapidly get confused with appropriate. And then I start imagining something working when there's truthfully very little in common. The whole opposites attract thing gets me going in wrong directions in relationships. I need to look for simpler guys with wiser minds and warmer hearts.

Time for me to throw up my hands because rich powerful dominant men seem to like my profile? Oy. My guess is I'll shortly be backing away from another millionaire.

I love your bohemian gentle soul vision for me, and I strongly doubt he's that. But I'm willing to meet, once, and see. It's both hilarious and confusing. Maybe they've all been thrown in my path so I can practice my boundaries. (May need them with him, I sense. I don't want to be wooed like crazy. I want to be known.)

And get this: he's super intelligent, owns a significant business (provides financial intelligence/analysis to the government). And he's from Central America and speaks Spanish (entirely fluent in English).

Some odd overlaps with M, there. Funny. I feel a lot calmer about M since I got some more distance the other day.

hugs
Hops

[sKePTiKal]

It's hard to know the actual value of the contents of a book, by it's cover.

I kinda like your explanation of the kinds of guys being attracted to you; the one about a chance to practice boundaries. But give yourself SOME credit Hops... I think you're doing fine, given all the kinds of feelings (and then the danger of overthinking them) that happens when you're attracted to someone.

If someone had advertised that B could recite Shakespeare by memory, or speak Latin and several other languages - and have an excellent grasp of history, flora & fauna... well. That doesn't fit his "cover" at all.

I usually try to read the whole book, before giving a review. But there HAVE been some that I got a few chapters in and threw across the room because it was such dreck, executed poorly.

Maybe the analogy fits?

[Hopalong]

It totally fits, Amber.
I'm shakily deciding how I feel about stepping into the library.

I'd feel better in the children's section at the moment,
with the Caldecotts and Newberries.

I never knew there could be something such as TOO smart.

hugs
Hops

[sKePTiKal]

I totally get it Hops. But dating isn't commitment, and you can always put that book back on the shelf. No harm, no foul. And I don't think it would be too forward (or risky) if there are a few more dates after the first meet - to just put your wishes for a warm, caring simple partnership on the table.

I wouldn't be impressed if a guy presented all his material accomplishments & toys to me, in curriculae vitae fashion and was a single billionaire... unless there was a warm, open, and easy to talk to man under it all (ie, he listens to me as much as he talks). I think I got the anti-materialism bug before I was 21. Other stuff matters waaaaaaaayyyyyyy more to me.

And even during the first meeting, it's a good idea to check in with yourself (powder your nose??) and get a take on how you FEEL around him. If there's an attraction, move on to whether it's his looks or personality - or little things he does to put you at ease. It would get my attention, if he didn't talk much about why you should fall at his feet helpless within proximity of his magnificence - and instead let you talk first. Watch how he watches you; IF he watches you. Does he make direct eye contact? Does he interrupt with sensitive, related questions or does he simply make a comment?

I'm not saying guys who fit that profile are all Ns, or as insecure emotionally as little boys... I'd dearly love to hope that some guys in that income class are actually real people, with real depth. But my expectations aren't great, in the odds department. Personally, just from a merely practical point of view, I wish you'd look for retired contractors or highly skilled tradesmen who are ALSO compatible with life outlooks and educated. I think there are more of those who've learned the life lessons required to grow emotionally.

But I might have a bias that's sticking out from under my skirt.....  LOLOLOLOL.

[lighter]

What Amber said.

Yup yup yup.

Lighter