Author Topic: Mindfulness and codependence thread  (Read 157374 times)

lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #300 on: August 02, 2020, 12:21:57 PM »
Tupp:

::sending cuddle back to Tupp::

It's been my experience that more information leads to more success and deeper understanding of difficult concepts.  Truthfully, having bad experiences with other Ts helped me understand how great this T IS.

Lighter


lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #301 on: August 02, 2020, 12:41:12 PM »


Sometimes, I think it can all be (over)simplified down to shifting our thinking, feeling, rumination and obsessions away from we accept we CAN'T do... to accepting and acting on, what we CAN.


Right, Amber.  I think you're right here.  The problem is..... we're usually not wired that way.  We're usually wired all kinds of wrong ways and don't even realize it.  You know the drill; )

Lighter

lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #302 on: August 02, 2020, 01:51:04 PM »
Lighter,

You brought back a lot of memories. After my divorce I went to ONE therapist who said, after I had completed my story, "let's get you on some meds. You can't be okay after an experience like that." The fact is, I WAS okay--well not in the grand scheme of things, but I was in the immediate. Never went back. 

I'm sorry that happened to you, CB.  There's a lot of marginal and bad Ts out there.  I thank God for Doc G and this board.  I'm so grateful for the Ts who help and don't harm. 

Watching movies is hard. So much of the sub plot is this kind of crap that women have to live through(most esp the historical stuff I like to watch). Can't decide if the stories are worth the PTSD.

Youngest dd and I were talking about how there aren't really thaaaaat many plots.  Sometimes I see that SO clearly.  Like a laser. 

Everyone focuses on the symptoms... the conditions.  They don't call out the causes for what they are... common and something the global community should develop zero tolerance policies for.  That's not the way it is, though, and somehow I manage to not feel despair while pondering it.   I used to feel ONLY despair.     
 It's maddening, don't get me wrong, but there's an absence of despair now.   People are entertained... not moved to CHANGE the foundational reasons we're dealing with all this drama, and writing stories and scripts......  and that's OK too.

I just SEE it so clearly.   It's my need for my external world to line up with my internal world... I think.  The INFP in me.  I've passed this intense desire for justice to my youngest dd.  She noted that too, yesterday.   She doesn't see it as a positive attribute.  More of a curse, unfortunately.

When you watch your favorite programs....
I wish you more emotional distance, expanded resilience and less reactivity.  The reactivity... the PTS is devastating.  I hope it transforms into an ability to respond and be responsive in the ways you can be.  The ability to act, and do what we can, is part of healing, IME.

I'm glad you got out too, CB.

Lighter

 



CB

lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #303 on: August 03, 2020, 04:04:42 PM »
I read Hops SHAME thread and think....
however did I get anything done when I spent SO much time judging myself, sneering at imperfection and setting expectations, one after another.... bargaining with every bit of downtime I allowed myself to recover enough to get back up and slog unhappily through years of danger, threat and DOING things to survive, rather than feel joy. 

BLECK.  Just a completely different mindset I don't miss at all, IME. 

To view oneself as a cog.... a wheel.... a thing in motion or NOT in motion, and judge that so harshly.

It's painful to look back at the last 15 or so years.
Nose on the pebble living is very painful. 

There's an investment of time and cranky resistence to breathing spaciousness into our consciousness... to seeing the entire field, and getting one's nose off a pebble.  There will always be pebbles.  I'm amazed that spaciousness seems to be a lasting feature, once achieved.  I don't understand it, entirely, but it makes it easy to be dismissive of the time spent trifling and judging myself to my detriment.  I SEE that so very clearly now.  I've internalized it, and it took time, and persistence and consistent redirection BACK to that very helpful truth.

Looking back... I wonder how I got what I DID get done... done while tying up so much time judging and suffering. 

I had help, as Amber said on another thread.  Sometimes the people we depend on don't help or they make things worse.  Discerning who is helping, and who's making things harder, without getting sucked down another rabbit hole, isn't easy, IME. I guess the codependence stuff is woven throughout these moments. 

Gently ignoring people, who do more harm than good, is a skill, IME.  We learn to make peace with it.  We don't automatically do and understand it.

 At this point... There's suffering and responding and responsiveness, rather than reacting and shame and judgment, though it does pop up.  I manage it.  Banish it, mostly.  Marvel at the times it remains silent, and how nice the space is without it. 

10 years ago... there was suffering and tearing off a raw piece of survival with my teeth.... shutting out someone doing harm, and allowing some unexpected person to step up and help in ways a stranger or person NOT obligated to help.... when receiving was so very difficult... created so much shame.... it was a super hard time to admit I needed help and worse..... to receive it.  There was also humiliation at HAVING to depend on others..... ask for help..... be told they didn't want to get involved, etc.  I had expectations for them, and they were wrong expectations.  Expectations I held for my very helpful self.... just so unhelpful to set expectations and SEE outcomes that would be morphing and changing all along, as plots unraveled.

I had an idea how things worked.... an understanding things would BE Ok, even if they weren't OK, but I was hard ,pressed to lean on it when threatened in ways I couldn't escape, mostly involving my children.  Having to SIT and BE inside my head, in peril physically, attacked from every direction and in ways I couldn't discern ahead, but knew to be imminent.... that's a place where internalized trust of SELF and releasing outcome is vital, yet at the time, impossible with the tools and coping strategies I had available to me.

But there's a thread of knowing.... intuition, I suppose.  I regret not living INSIDE that space, and I think....
I'm there, in that space, now.  I've always said that, but now I understand better.  Have internalized it more fully and received such relief and succor from inhabiting it, which isn't like flipping a switch. 

Letting old habits and strategies go isn't easy.  It's a process. It opens up space for new things and ways of being... coping.... experiencing joy instead of suffering.  That's a winning trade, every time, IME.  Understanding that, I'd have jumped at it years ago, but I didn't have the ability... I didn't have the right teacher.

 It's helpful to have a hand to hold.... someone who's been there, done that.  It moves one through more easily, more quickly, with less suffering and time, IME.

I must tell you... there were days when just looking into T's eyes brought me to hot tears..... without a word passing between us.  To be seen with such compassion... really seen and appreciated and known and..... was very powerful and healing, and I have to think, in my case, necessary.

To have my fingers pryed off old coping strategies, from different directions, in different ways, with different tools... to have it explained to me as I resisted and reacted and experienced anger and resentments..... it all came up band it came out, like vomiting..... or like wind ruffling blinds, up and out of my lungs or like waking without suffering and noticing it.  Just..... being amazed and so relieved..... without thinking about it..... inhabiting new, very neutral head space...... leading to more joy,  without always thinking it through, for sure.

And accepting the new.....
being able to get comfortable and trust it was real....
trust it will lead to more discoveries, more comfort, and more joy.  Somtimes one finds a smile they can't wipe from their face, and it's just.... very...  unexpected, but real and powerful and as simple as living fully in the moment.  What did those words EVER mean all the times we've heard and said them?

That huge smile.... that huge joy, that's what it meant, and I resist feeling resentful, even now, about my inability to understand it, and people's inability to EXPLAIN it so I could understand it.   I very clearly see it's not simple, it can't be grasped (from my POV) simply..... there are different approaches and pieces of  information pointing one to inhabiting different space.... rather than just understanding..... but inhabiting new spaces, and knowing HOW nad WHY one may get there adds to the experience and internalizing it, IME. 
 
Fingers being pried off... fingers being placed onto new tools and beliefs and habits..... it's complicated, and yet... pieces of it are much simpler than I can believe.  The processing... the brain's ability to make lasting change, in milliseconds, that's perhaps the most powerful truth in all this, IME.   To trust it's easy, and lean into it... stop questioning it and doubting. 

At some point one stops resisting and looks forward to what comes next, bc of new and informative experiences... bc experiences of proof, I guess.

 TRUST it's OK to not judge. Trust being super curious instead.. .without questions.... is just the rigth thing to do, and so it becomes familiar and questioning it, at some point, drops away and before you know it, it's BECOMING a new default... a new brain setting.... what your brain chooses over all the old default settings, and then it's just how one lives, IME.

It takes energy to judge, and question and internalize shame and let the voices of people who installed critical programs rule, IME. 

And it feels like eating bees, IME.  We eat a handful of bees, then suffer, bc we eat handfuls of bees, without thinking, and get frustrated and feel shame we aren't more productive, energetic and happy.  That seems very odd to me now. I didn't use to understand how my internal world was sabotaged and my inability to SEE what was really happening was..... needed... required my attention and tending to. 

Tending to my internal world lead to SEEING the sabotage, and putting a finger on the voices someone else installed.  Being critical of myself was automatic, even when I took a break and stuffed my mind with distraction.... it was still THERE, I'd just made a bargain with myself.  It always lead back to the same place, bc eating handfuls of bees was the only food I knew to eat.

How in the world did I have the expectation I could turn that handful of bees into calm, peace and ability to SEE choices and respond.  Eating bees is the stuff reactivity is made of, IME.  That expectation, for myself, was of course going to lead to more reactivity and disappointment and suffering.

 Shifting ones emotional diet to something healthier..... it's a new texture.... it's not as exciting or emotionally engulfing..... sometimes it's boring, compared to bee eating, IME.   

One just gets through it... while noticing what's there.  We let space empty out, and don't rush to fill it... we just notice it.  Remembering there are new tools is very difficult in these moments,  but eventually, if one resists condemning oneself for failing to just DO it perfectly, one sees how it works.  One gains access and can choose tools  without so much confusion and pain and judgment, which is sort of the key to having access, space and ability freed up.... bc we STOP doing the things that normally take up our time and energy and consequently are the things blocking access to calming our brains to allow processing and refining in historic files those things dogging us..... rolling around in our brains, bc trauma froze them there and keep them RIGHT THERE...in one's face, all the time.

It feels circular, and it is...
until it's not. 

The thing that ends the circular suffering is the....
new skillset....
resting in awareness....
deep self compassion that doesn't judge when one falters.....
releasing expectation......
getting very curious about what's there, and what comes next.

Zero judgment is necessary.

And none of this is easy or simple, bc there are so many moving pieces, and that's OK. 

If I can work towards it, anyone can. 

Every Amazon on this board is talented and used to surviving.  Has survived terrible things.  CAN get herself through and out of whatever comes up.

Trusting that, so the mind can calm itself.....
tending to the mind when survival comes up....
tending to it like it's a small child.... like it's our own small frightened child self....
and reassuring her she's OK... we're going to take care of her.  We can do that now... our adult, grown up self has that ability and it's safe to rest now.

That's all mixed up in the process, and our child selves are ready to be reassured and to rest.  To trust. 

I look back over the threads on this forum and wonder at what we've accomplished with the tools we've had access to.  How strong we were.  How strong we are to have gotten ourselves through. 

Where is the place where the new skills aren't more clutter, bringing up shame, bc using them seamlessly isn't possible..... they sometimes become more clutter, and that's devastating, IME. 

BUT, moving through, even when there's no payoff or there's more suffering and confusion...... when adding the addition of feeling overwhelmed on top of what lead to seeking "feeling better."  It's amazing one gets beyond, bc habit and brain pathways and default settings are things to be noticed, understood, examined again with the addition of CHOICE,  identified and introduced as something possible to choose, necessary to choose, as a way to suffer less... to experience joy... then more joy.

And then it happens.  Unexpectedly, bc IME, no one can understand something they've never really experienced, outside the sense of "flow" one sometimes finds, seemingly out of the blue, and unexpected.... the light switch that goes on without flipping it cotnsciously.... one finds that, and it's supposed to happen, but one didn't expect it to happen.   One is SURPRISED by the experience.   Waiting for it to dissipate, perhaps be conjured up and not real at all, but it persists, and there's joy and surprise and......
knowing.

Experiencing the fruits and flowers of the work, the doubt, the dismissing of self judgment and managing to  trust and work with the new tools, as one can, while remaining neutral.... refusing to judge.... embracing the new, and releasing outcome.  It's like juggling, only juggling really difficult to hold in one's mind concepts, and unfamiliar habits.... habits taking up energy and space in our brains.

Having space in our brains is necessary.  It means we find ways to STOP reacting and filling our brains up with old default settings, but first....
one must nOTICE those things.  Become aware.  Resist judging them, and that gets easier, IME, bc just SEEING what's IN there...... is super interesting.

I want to know what's behind what I've seen.  I want to continue unwrapping boxes of information and turn them over in my hands and mind and decide what to do with them. 

I'm relieved I have tools to SEE and deal with these things. 

I feel empowered.

I don't feel overwhelmed as often.....and I trust I will feel overwhelmed by certain situations.  Having strategies to deal with them, even if I react and fail in the face of them, I know I'll slow down, remember to breathe or push on walls and manage brain integration, again, to bring about better outcomes than were possible this time last year. 

Once the ball is rolling.... it rolls quickly, IME.  I feel it rolled more quickly for Tupp than it did for me, but I accept our brains and readiness are different.  Not better or slower or whatever judgment I could place on it.

I'm simply relieved and leaning into trust... not hope, but trust. 

Where I was hopeful, but didn't trust.... I now understand, have exerperienced enough relief to KNOW... without doubting.  New territory is always intimidating, maybe triggering or threatening.  Positive experiences make choices apparent and known and possible to own.  Choosing, having choice more often, becomes habit, and then it's the default setting.... without realizing it...... it's THE default setting without thinking about it.

I'm writing this out as much for myself, as for the board.  It's like SEEING something, many somethings, important somethings.... again, from different angles, putting pieces together that weren't together before, and driving more deeply into understanding of how they work, and why they work. 

Understanding how they weren't present, how they weren't available, how I missed them, and understanding how things could have shifted and been changed.  I don't regret.   I merely want to understand, and internalize the depth of having choice and access to logic, creativity and problem solving skills where there was ONLY reactivity before. 

It seems so obvious, yet there was so much time where I could ONLY see ONE PEBBLE at a time.   I had no distance to SEE the entire field, and now I see.  Now I have access to creating more space, which is amazing, bc all the space I've created has remained in tact.  Not coming and going, though I'm sometimes reactive, I have access to choice and it's all tied into what I no longer do....
judge myself, natter myself with shoulds and should haves.... compare myself to others..... think about how my choices or inability to DO things like keep clutter cleared impact my life negatively..... I think, instead.....
I'll deal with that when it's time. 

What does it matter, today, or in 100years, if that remains undealt with?

I always shrug, bc it doesn't really matter.  It's not really a problem, and when I feel it is I'll pick it up and deal with it,  in my way, when it's time.  I might have to ask for help, and that's cool too.  I'm great at some things, I have super powers, ansd the flip side of those super powers is always going to be the things I'm not so strong in.

No darkness without light.

No good without evil.

No strength without weakness.

It's not something to struggle against and wish was different.  It's something to accept and get curious about. 

Wishing and hoping things are different is very much like running a program in the computer that is our brain, IME. 

Sometimes these programs run in the background, but they suck up so much energy... we're always wondering why we have so little energy.

When we notice and become aware of these programs.... we SEE what's there, and gain more choice.  Choice  about that particular program, and any other programs we've yet to identify. 

We get to choose between running that program OR not running it.   We become aware of the absence of running those programs. 

Choosing self compassion... .choosing to rest in awareness..... these aren't new programs...... but they make choice available, IME.

Rest and self compassion are tools/habits we cultivate.

The fruits and flowers are doors appearing, and sometimes clanging open leading to more doors and choice and creative options we couldn't see before.

By this time, one trusts the tools. 
The energy, previously spent questioning and doubting, is available for other things.

That's HUGE!  To SEE what's going on, mine spaciousness.... create emotional distance (window of resilience) so we can see the entire field.... and the field is vast, and larger than we can know.... it continues to expand, which is amazing.

The royal we continues to be amazed and to trust and to lean into wonder and curiosity... and doors continue to open.  Choice continues to present itself.  Creative options appear, and the royal we is astonished at all the years it was absent.

I was so proud of myself for getting through what I got through IN THAT while in surival mode.  What could I have done if I'd been able to integrate my brain, free up energy spent fearing, and ACT in creative ways I had no access to?

I'll never know, but I do know this. 

The next years of my life will be spent mining joy and seeking out things I want more of.   

I don't have to waste any energy regretting or worrying about repeating it, bc I've been there.  I know what that is.  I've moved through and out the other side.  The relief is real and permanent. 

My girls are repeating things I've said, and I don't think they understand that. I notice they're employing tools I didn't teach, bc they weren't willing to listen if I tried to share.  But they're learning from watching, and they're doing what's been modeled for them.

I think having ME back is a relief for them.  Maybe they don't consciously remember who I was, when they were 4 and 6, but a part of them is experiencing relief and ease and awareness. 

And it can be as easy as that.  A switch going on, even though there's electrical engineers sweating and working and striving and making choices in the background... and sometimes just slipping into a rhythm, effortlessly.... there are no switches flipping themselves.  It's us, and it's always been us.  We do it when we aren't paying attention.

Imagine what we can do WHEN we pay attention!

::nodding::

Yup yup yup.

That: )

Lighter


 


lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #304 on: August 04, 2020, 01:44:50 PM »
I don't have an appointment with my T this week, for the first time in a long time.  Will have to see when we began sessions.

I did contact her about a difficult conversation I had with a friend about something awful that happened to that friend.   Friend is suffering.... really badly.  Just so.... touching and I so want to help her feel better.  This upset me very badly and I contacted the T via text.  She texted back SELF CARE... all about self care.  I should go back to SELF CARE.

Now, I WANTED T to solve my friend's issues.  Should we go to the police?  Take matters into our hands?!?!?  Surely she'd have that answer, and I NEEEEDED that answer, bc I needed to act.  The tiger was chasing me... I was in survival mode, and that made me less helpful than I wanted to be....  there was shame over SEEING myself say things I wish I could STOP saying, but couldn't.

I wish I'd done more listening.... and not felt compelled to fix anything.  I wish I'd filled the space, left by NOT trying to fix everything... with silent compassion.

Will put that on the list with T to discuss more fully. 

Also, today, I'm focusing on what I'm doing.  I'm refusing to allow myself to focus on what I'm not doing. 

I hop to and get things done, with joy, when I'm not casting LIVE! DIE! LIVE! DIE! judgments everytime I see sometihng requiring attention, eventually.  Lots of things need attention, but I have more ability to discern what's a priority now, and NOT allow small things to derrail the BIG picture. 

Phhht.

I can do this; )

Lighter


Twoapenny

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #305 on: August 09, 2020, 09:32:39 AM »
Shifting ones emotional diet to something healthier..... it's a new texture.... it's not as exciting or emotionally engulfing..... sometimes it's boring, compared to bee eating, IME.   

That really stuck out for me, Lighter, almost as the centre of all of it.  I think if you've lived in a highly stressed state, for whatever reason - family issues, life threatening situation, high powered job, whatever the cause of the drama - as much as we don't want that any more, it is hard to shift down a gear (or ten) and adjust to quiet, routine, slower pace.  I know how tired I get now from a relatively small amount of stimulation or stress and when I think back to being far more stressed than that, all the time, it does make sense that your body just gets used to it physically, in the same way it gets used to alcohol or cocaine or tobacco or whatever else you might be using.  It's not as exciting or as engulfing but I am finding more and more now that I have a deeper sense of satisfaction.  It feels more concrete and less transient than it used to.  It's not there all the time but it's there more of the time.  Are you finding that as well? xx

Hopalong

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #306 on: August 09, 2020, 10:03:13 AM »
Lighter,
I'm so glad you've stopped eating bees.
Now you might be eating crickets instead: boring, vaguely nutty-tasting, but very nourishing and high in protein. (Cricket flour is in our futures....)

I can see/feel how far you've come, how grateful you are. It's good to see you looking at your own internal savannah.

It's also neat to hear about you resisting the compulsion to rescue your friend and offer silent compassion instead. Just as your T offered you, when the hot tears sprang.

Wow.

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #307 on: August 09, 2020, 10:37:44 AM »
Yes, Tupp. 

I think there's chemical, structural and belief system changes taking place in the brain to account for feeling more concrete and less transient.

We learned new coping strategies, so they're available, even if we stutter and sputter remembering them....using them....temporarily losing access to them, bc of stress / biochemical hijack, etc.

I see it this way....
as long as I remain engaged and willing to rest in awareness, I continue driving and deepening lessons and skills resulting in more positive experience, building more trust and belief in familiar directions, but also areas I haven't discovered.  It's building on itself, and please remember....small gains, for me, are precious things.

They sometimes feel like a tiny synapses, but I feel it like a new building block dropped into place.

Some people have many powerful physical experiences, but that wasn't me.  I had one or two, which shocked and amazed me. I guess I had no hope that would happen.  I thought the entire process would be a slog, and it feels like a lot of it has....
But...
The slogging relieved tension on the brain, and the brain, once out from stress locking it into fight or flight, is an amazing thing.

I believe we've made permanent changes in our brains....bc brain plasticity.

It's my opinion new permanent changes will feel similar to the first.....there will be learning and remembering to use the new tools and strategies....kindness with ourselves, then more permanent and deepening lasting change.  Even if there's stuttering along the way, which isn't defeat.  It's the stuff relief is built from, ime.

So, ya....me too: )

 Lighter

lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #308 on: August 09, 2020, 10:40:27 AM »
Thanks, ((Hops.))

Here's to everyone putting down their bee eating forks.....to letting the bees buzz on by.

Lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #309 on: August 14, 2020, 02:24:13 PM »
So, company will be here tomorrow. 

It feels right, and good and comfortable to me.

I'm engaged happily in organizing, cleaning and editing the house and this is what I've noticed about that:

I'm enjoying the fruits of taking proactive steps, over time and proactively, in what used to be overwhelming jobs.  I didn't decide to DO it.  It just began happening, and I was enjoying the DOING of these things.  Today I'm enjoying the doing of the jobs, particularly bc there are so many steps out of the way.  I'm in the zone, and it feels comfortable.  It's not amazing or interesting in a...
GEE,  THIS IS GREAT!  I'M IN THE ZONE, not sure why, BUT I'M THERE, and IT's GREAT AND I'm GETTING LOTS OF STUFF DONE! YAAAY!  Hope it stays. 

I'm just moving through a very balanced, energized,  happy ZONE, which IS new for me.   It's no longer THE ZONE, which was my normal.... however rare and mysterious..... that's shifted.

The relaxed self care....  the doing of things NOT leading to finishing said thing, which was one reason I;ve been overwhelmed so easily..... EVERY job had to be done JUST RIGHT, and a certain way and certainly with a particular expectation for just how that would look and feel.   I mean....  creating sacred space.... whenever touching cleaning supplies... is, looking at it with some distance I didn't notice I was creating in this area..... a bit much. 

The judment dropped away. 

The comparisons dropped away.... which frees up energy for DOING and BEING present and engaged and curious, rather than uptight and fearful and judgmental. 

Judging others, meant I was judging myself, and that seems really obvious now, but will post it again,  in case I forget.

Judging myself is just messed up, and counterproductive in every way, IME.

And so I continue moving through all the clothing we're growing in and out of,  bc that's the case with the three of us IN this house right now.  We're exchanging clothing, figuring out what won't fit any of us, and passing these things on. 

I'm ready to make that drop this evening, when I LOVE dropping off at the Goodwill near us..... in the dark..... with no one looking.  What is up with that?  Don't care.  Maybe it's a sort of purge.... not shameful, BUT I really DON'T want to be judged...and now I don't care. Again.  I'm taking it at face value.  It means open sunny spaces, improved organization and ability to find the things we use daily... without struggle. 

That's a really nice place to be, IME.

In the meantime, I'm not setting any goals for how the house will be when guests arrive.  These folks KNOW us and me and we've lived together, so..... welcome and maybe you can help me with this ONE organization block I've identified by the time you arrive, guests.

Not afraid to ask for help.  Not afraid to need it.  Not afraid to be seen as needing help... and that's new.... flowing.... feeling pretty integrated.

Integrated is a pretty good word and IS THIS my brain firing on all cylinders?  I think, ya... maybe it is.  There's no struggle or ON OFF switch.... just moving along, with economy of motion and zero worry about the process or outcome.

And....
wow. 

There's space for appreciating what I love in my life...honoring those items I use all the time.....
there's space.... more space......
there's flow and no thinking about purpose or priorities.....
just....
 flow.

Flow is amazing.  Flow is cleaning a floor, walking the dog, gathering flowers and branches for porch flower arrangements, getting them in water for the time being,  then moving back into he house to check on laundry...  find the ROOBMBAS, handling them, getting them back to work, then dealing with more clothes, which seems ultra managable right now,  then enjoying some of the clean open spaces accumulating over the last months and  moving on the the next thing without suffering or doubt or fear or....
stress.

Zero stress.   

I dealt with a health professional earlier, and didn't have an emotional blip as I dismissed her as not a right fit for youngest dd, and got off the phone after a quick statement about what we would be doing... seeing the gal we usually see in that office.  I discussed the plan with youngest dd, we agreed, and now I'm looking forward to getting right back to what I've been doing happily all day.  Just moving through the stuff, and cleaning without pressure KNOWING it WILL feel like sacred space, even if I don't struggle and hurt myself in the process.

And maybe I've associated suffering with proper cleaning, partially bc my father drove it into my head with a hot poker (fig.)

What a relief... to not HAVE to clean like an abused PD farm wife who looks down on everyone else for their marginal, unworthy efforts at cleaning, even as her husband cheated on her in a very public manner and she couldn't eat all the yummy things she made for everyone in the kitchen, bc Type I diabetes and health problems stemming from being denied medical care by her abusive father who beat her bloody for things her brothers did, AND forced her to drink baking soda water before her appendix burst and the doctor held up her guts, like rotted worms, and doubted she'd ever recover during the emergency surgery she was lucky to receive at all . 

Whoo... glad that's off my plate, bc it did suck.

Things ARE changing.  I'm limiting the insanity IN MY LIFE and it's nice to trust myself to do that,  bc I do trust myself to DO that.  I don't fear or doubt any more.  Like getting off the phone with the healthcare person.  I didn't need her to understand, and I didn't care if she did, which was pretty obvious in her shock, and I got on with my day, sans judgment... just new for me, bc lots of bad history with healthcare professionals.
 Amazing.....
 Freedom.

Ya, that.

Lighter, going back to what she was doing. 

Happily: )










Hopalong

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #310 on: August 14, 2020, 08:31:37 PM »
That gory horror story was your mother, Lighter?
I am so sorry.
It sounds like generational trauma.

I had a friend whose grandparents were driven out
of Turkey by soldiers with rifle-butt blows and starvation on the
way and her mother inherited and re-enacted the trauma of
the grandmother with an intensity and violence my friend
only understood later. That insight about generational trauma
was a revelation to me. Similar to what some Jewish friends
carry even as the generations make the Holocaust recede.

It made sense to me when I read about science that showed
in other species, say monkeys, ONE generation would learn
to use a tool in a new way....and a next generation that was
NOT raised by the parents who'd learned it, would still show
the new skill as they matured. The experience was encoded
in the DNA, in a way that expressed psychologically.

I find that amazing and wondrous, because I would think
that learning/encoding could be about positive discoveries
as much as traumatic ones.

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #311 on: August 16, 2020, 08:38:05 PM »
The story was about my father's mother, Hops.

Lighter

Twoapenny

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #312 on: August 17, 2020, 08:48:44 AM »
So nice to read, Lighter, without the judgement or the pressure to get things done, get things right, not to upset or offend (healthcare professional) - just doing the day, easy process, doing it as it needs to be done rather than super charging through the list.  Nice!

And so sad about your father's mum.  The obsessive cleaning seems to be a thing we've all talked about on here; I do feel it was very much the way women proved their worth in a time when they couldn't access education and to be divorced or single was considered a very bad thing.  I used to have a friend who cleaned obsessively; she was abused as a child and even a tiny speck of dust in her house made her feel so filthy that she couldn't cope with it and just cleaned all the time.  It's sad how we look back and see the way our parents, grandparents, great grandparents all dealt with the things that made them feel unhappy or worthless and how those things became things by which we were judged (not clean enough, not pretty enough, not well behaved enough) and so we take that forward and so on.  Generational trauma, Hops, as you said.

And then I wonder about the current generation and if their parents are damaging them in the same way, by not making them clean or wash clothes or take their turn to cook dinner.  Most of my friends' kids do nothing around the house and generally money is just given to them without any condition attached.  I wonder if that does them a disservice for later life, in the same way that I feel my mum constantly cleaning did to us (I don't think it damaged us that she cleaned all the time, but it would be really nice to have some memories of finger painting with her or making pasta necklaces or something).  Be interesting for all of us to be looking back at some point in the future and seeing how the patterns change or if they do.

I've digressed again!  I'm glad you're in the flow.  Are your friends still there? xx

lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #313 on: August 17, 2020, 11:46:47 AM »
So nice to read, Lighter, without the judgement or the pressure to get things done, get things right, not to upset or offend (healthcare professional) - just doing the day, easy process, doing it as it needs to be done rather than super charging through the list.  Nice!
Yes!  No lists.  I'm pretty familiar with what needs doing, by now, in my life.  There are things that MUST be done to standard..... even if the standards are changing, and I trust I'll DO that without badgering myself, driving myself and scaring myself all day about them, kwim?
 BTW company came and we had a terrific time.  They didn't spend the night, though the house was ready for spend the night guests.  We cooked, with the guy pulling grill meister duty..... just an amazing time and the girls and I are luxuriating in a very clean house, very happy ME and going out and doing stuff... yesterday was cool and breezy.  Youngest and I just went into the world and did stuff..... bought Chinese cooking wine, gf soy sauce, and black sesame seed oil..... SNOW PEA LEAVES!  We  love snowpea leaves,except for pulling them off the stems, and we made a terrific yummy meal, seeing chicken then roasting it in the yummy sauce with eggplant we got at the FARMER's MARKET!  We love the farmers market but haven't been in months, and we also got corn and big slicing tomatoes... the ugly ones.... amazing and we're going back to get peaches TODAY... will leave after this post, in fact: )


And so sad about your father's mum.  The obsessive cleaning seems to be a thing we've all talked about on here; I do feel it was very much the way women proved their worth in a time when they couldn't access education and to be divorced or single was considered a very bad thing.  I used to have a friend who cleaned obsessively; she was abused as a child and even a tiny speck of dust in her house made her feel so filthy that she couldn't cope with it and just cleaned all the time.  It's sad how we look back and see the way our parents, grandparents, great grandparents all dealt with the things that made them feel unhappy or worthless and how those things became things by which we were judged (not clean enough, not pretty enough, not well behaved enough) and so we take that forward and so on.  Generational trauma, Hops, as you said.  It gives me the same terrible feeling of helplessness to read that, as it does to hear about eating disorders and being trapped in abusive relationships to keep little children safe.  Just helpless.

And then I wonder about the current generation and if their parents are damaging them in the same way, by not making them clean or wash clothes or take their turn to cook dinner.  Most of my friends' kids do nothing around the house and generally money is just given to them without any condition attached.  I wonder if that does them a disservice for later life,I'm pretty sure it does. in the same way that I feel my mum constantly cleaning did to us (I don't think it damaged us that she cleaned all the time, but it would be really nice to have some memories of finger painting with her or making pasta necklaces or something). Awww, you so deserved finger painting memories and making little valentine cards with your mum. Be interesting for all of us to be looking back at some point in the future and seeing how the patterns change or if they do.  I was talking to my T about some of this... and I think my sister and I were buffered by the fact we had each other, as twins, always.  We found things to do, even when we were alone for long periods of time... we were playing at the edge of a pond, waving orange safety flags in the road, drawing on walls, playing in a sandbox, on a swingset, in the orchard, and just basically running around to the neighbor's houses getting yummy treats, and helping out in the garden, etc.  We had lots of freedom, but we filled that time with social, physical and creative outlets, even if we were punished for some of them.  Try flushing your mum's bc pills down the toilet and see if she's as happy about it as you are... not.  WE DID THAT.  We'd scoot our cribs together, then crawl back and forth.  Once, I'm told, we emptied our diapers and finger painted on the wall, never a dull moment with twins, and we always ALWAYS blamed little brother, even when he was flat on his back newly born.... "brother did it!"  So.... I don't think we missed having a mother sit down and do things with us, bc I don't recall that she did.   I remember watching mom's angry feet stomp by the bed, sister and I were hiding under, as she looked for us.... not sure what we'd done, but she was mad and we were getting spanked.  I remember being spanked and sat on front stoop, to have a proper cry, AFTER my mother failed to properly supervise us... that's when we were waving flags in the road.  For the life of me, I don't understand why parents hit little kids for their own failures.   She should have spanked herself, not us.   

I've digressed again!  I'm glad you're in the flow.  Are your friends still there? xx  Friends didn't spend the night, but they will in the winter, as will cousins, and I'm pretty sure I digressed all over the place.  Have to get youngest dd and go to the school now, then farmer's market, for peaches! 
Lighter


lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #314 on: August 20, 2020, 09:21:40 PM »
I've been thinking a lot about Victor Frankl and how our ability to get off painful pebbles isn't easy.  It's hard.  It's sometimes not possible, but it's always available, however difficult the lessons are to find. 

I remember my martial arts instructor attempting to teach me to meditate in 2008, which I sorely needed to learn, but failed. 
The effort backfired, in more than one way, and I became pretty intransient in my belief around meditation as elitist... perhaps viewing it as a difficult puzzle requiring keys I just didn't have. Keys being kept from me.... perhaps those who had them chuckled at my expense and of all those who couldn't SEE and grasp them?  I wasn't sure... but I was frustrated and angry and defensive around the entire topic for over 10 years... when I needed it most,  frankly.   


After all this time, of focus on 3 or 4 very large, jagged pebbles..... my girls have grown into smart, capable adults.  Capable of protecting themselves, which has been an ever present mantra through it all.   When the girls are old enough... when the girls can protect themselves. 

That reality frees me up-my energy up, to do other things.  Not spinning my wheels suffering over and over, frees up more energy still.   I can feel the space.... I can feel the possibility.... and it's thrilling, but only for a second.  Something shuts it down.  I don't understand that yet, but I'll keep chipping away at it.  Noticing what it is, and not judging it. 

About my inability to meditate.  It seems so far away now, not that I believe I can do it well.  The fact I reap benefits and freedom and less suffering, bc of time spent being walked through it....hand held, really..... being shown how,  from so many different points of view... shown, educated, allowed to SEE...eventually..... it's everything. 

Being shown was the key I needed to figure it out.  The saying goes...

When the student is ready, the teacher appears."  Something like that, and it was the case for me.


There's zero shame in needing help.... zero judgment for not being able to figure out myself.  It is how it needed to be, and that's all. 


I watch my girls blossom and move closer to me as I feel better... maybe we're all remembering who I was BEFORE... before the unthinkable happened, and things changed.... I changed, my brain changed, my biochemistry and nervous system changed..... in concrete ways I never would have believed if they didn't happen TO me.  To feel so strong, then get torn down, brick by brick, unable to recover all the way between battles..... you don't know what that is,  what it will feel like until you're in it.  I wonder what it did to the In Laws.  As MIL sent 3 BD cards to oldest dd, who's birthday isn't for some months... and one of the cards said LATE birthday.... MIL isn't doing very well.  She's very smart.  She should be able to figure out birthdays,  but she isn't. Maybe she can't.  Maybe she doesn't care to.   This is familiar.  Thinking about what;s in other people's heads, and spinning wheels over it.  It's scary, honestly.  MIL doesn't care how she appears... she's so out of her mind positive about her narrative.  Maybe that's what happens when everyone around you tells youi what you want to hear.... for whatever reason.  It's a sort of group psychosis, IME. 

I'll tell you this.... when the Judge ruled on my attorney fees, paid by the ILs, no one on their side showed up.  Nobody but their attorney.  No one witnessed what the judge said, and they didn't want to know that truth.  These letters,  from MIL, tell me their break with reality goes on, without a hiccup.... and my children are invited to partake.   

And I watch my girls figure things out.... share their experiences of problem solving in relationship, and high stress job...... I KNOW they're learning.   I watch them apply what they've learned.   I watch them take THAT moment..... how did Victor Frankl say it...

" Between stimulus and response, there is a space.  In that space is our power to choose our response.  In our response lies our growth and our freedom."

I wouldn't have had any idea what that meant... this time last year.  Not at all.  I'm sure I would have felt some amount of defensiveness and frustration.  I would have wondered where the key to understanding that WAS. 

But watching my girls.... reminds me of another quote from Frankl....


"Everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms-to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's own way."

And one more........

"When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves."


I don't know how to teach that.  Growth is painful.  Humans avoid pain, sometimes at all costs.   It's difficult, dirty work,  IME. Really gritty stuff.  I don't know how to explain it so my children will understand and internalize it... to FEEL it's truth, every day if possible, in their lives.

I no longer fear the In Laws harming the girls.  That's a blessing... such a relief, but the girls have enough facts to understand now.  No more protecting them.  It was time to give them enough information to make up their own minds, and they have. 

Talking about it isn't very helpful, I find.  It shuts down conversations and communication, IME.

There's modeling it, and releasing expectation. 

That's all there is.

Lighter




___________________________________________________________________________
I turned my ankle painfully this morning... taking out the trash, so I've been reading and journaling as I ice, elevate and eat anti inflammatories.  I liked these two things....




Pinnacles Of Possibility
CAPRICORN HOROSCOPE
AUGUST 20, 2020

You may find yourself wondering today whether you will ever come close to enlightenment or ascension. If you doubt your growth potential, you may adjust your goals accordingly so that you only reach for those aims you know you are capable of achieving easily. However, it is likely that you are already well on your way toward the next stage of your development, even if you do not acknowledge your achievements. Consider that you may be able to speed your progress by striving for weightier, more challenging goals. Should you feel a need to alter the course you have walked up until today, try to look for ways to integrate your most ambitious desires into your life plan.

Our chances of accomplishing our goals increase exponentially when we choose to aim high. Often, the limitations that keep us from fulfilling our full potential are products of a worldview fraught with borders that block our progress. When we believe, however, that we are capable of breaching these boundaries in order to accomplish great feats of strength, intelligence, or endurance, we are more apt to take whatever steps are necessary to realize our dreams. We may never reach the pinnacle of success that we have pictured so vividly in our minds, but we can rest assured that we will come closer to it than we might otherwise have because we regarded it as one possible outcome of our endeavors. Your principles will inspire you to aim high today, whatever the nature of the goals you have chosen to pursue.
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DailyOM Course Spotlight


________________________________________________________________________
Protect Yourself from Control Dramas
BY DR. JODY JANATI
Most people have come to accept that conflict is inevitable. What many do not realize is that most of us use unconscious strategies called control dramas to gain power or energy from another person, and to essentially, "get their way with others." A control drama is played by anyone who is feeling low on power or energy, to manipulate and steal the energy of another. We get our way with others by making them pay attention to us and then elicit a certain reaction from them to make ourselves feel fulfilled. The positive feelings we gain are won at the expense of the other person and this often causes imbalance and drama in our interpersonal relationships. In this course you'll learn about common control dramas and how to negate them through step by step applied approaches that really work. Dr. Jody Janati will help you identify and protect yourself from common control dramas that arise when individuals become defensive.

______________________________________________________________________________

At 4:44 today, I opened this link...
https://medium.com/accelerated-intelligence/why-successful-people-spend-10-hours-a-week-on-compound-time-79d64d8132a8

I believe THIS is true for me.  Time spent, outside necessary business, crisis management, WORRYING over things I can't change..... is time I'll reap benefits from down the road.  Time spent learning how to integrate my brain, calm my biochemistry, expand my window of resilience and rest in awareness, consistently, will be a priceless investment in myself, for my future, and that of my family.

It's been a game changer for me.  I'm excited to think about what it means down the road.  Excitement comes and goes, but I trust it.

Lighter