do you ever feel like you were to blame?

[bkkabri]

I went on a date(first one) with an old friend and we had a great time.  It was really strange being with someone who was in the conversation and talking back to you with compassion and life.  In alot of ways it made me feel great, but in others it made me feel sad.  The things my date were saying were great, but in the back of my mind I felt like why didnt this happen with my ex.  Nothing ever sounded genuine or intimate.  I still have this sting in me that I could have been different in the fact that I could have said something rather than have too much pride and stay silent.  I hated the silence.  I craved affection from my ex, but there was a wall that I just didnt seem to be able to get over and get back her love.  Has anyone ever experienced this.  My date understands my situation and she has been very supportive because I have been honest with her about my thoughts.  I guess I just wish my ex had the same feelings for me about taking the time to see what she was giving up.  The sting of feeling like I am nothing after two years hurts me greatly.  I wasnt perfect, but I was there for her.  She just didnt seem to care.  Thanks.

[Anonymous]

What did your old friend think of your date?
Did she have a good time?
Will you be seeing each other again?
What do you think of this board being hacked?

[bunny]

We all have to deal with unhappy parts of our past. At some point we have to decide whether we will continue to sacrifice precious hours, days, weeks, months, to rumination. Your ex is no longer responsible for the hours you spend obsessing...I hope you can get help to heal from this and get your life back.

bunny

[Anonymous]

I can appreciate your situation, bkkabri, but also acknowledge bunny's  nudge to steer you toward self-focus rather than other-focus. Thoughts about my ex-N woke me straight up from a sound sleep the other night. Unfortunately I couldn't shut off my brain for a while and ruminated. I have, however, made progress because instead of being really sad and forlorn, I find anger coming to the surface now. Even though I am uncomfortable with being angry, I think it's a progression toward healing (at least I hope so).

In another post I inquired about therapy. Is that something you're looking into or seriously considering? It's hard to do this stuff alone -- processing the aftermath from emotional abuse and a failed relationship -- so I'd encourage your getting some professional help. It would speed the process, I think.

bludie

[bkkabri]

The date went great.  It was nice talking with a woman who you could feel was into the conversation and not feeling like they were processing the informaton for more than what it was.  I guess where my hurt lies is in the fact that I want to be a good companion for my significant other, but my fear is that I dont have the tools to communicate to the person my feelings.  I beleive this comes from dating my ex because everything I tried on holidays ect. just blew up in my face with accusations and nonsense.  I dont understand the whole dirty films thing, but its an example of how messed up it made me feel considering that I feel Christmas is a time of year to express love in an intimate way.  I am so confused inside how I saw the red flags but didnt do anything until June.  In the end I feel like the narcisist because I feel like maybe I could have said something that warmed her heart like it seemed in the beginning.  I have so many unanswered questions, but in the end it is just a really bad experience because nobody saw her reactions but me.  My friends think this was just two people not working out.  They dont understand the nightmare of silence and then rage that happened.  Its like a bad dream.  The only thing good is that I believe God sent me my friend because he needed me to see that woman that are normal are affectionate and loving and caring to the degree where you feel normal inside.  That is the one thing I havent felt in the longest time-normal.  I feel like someone who was just belittled for everything that I am as a human.  Thanks again for your words.  They really do help.  I feel bad though because in the end I raged at her words and she suddenly became calm and happy to see me hurting inside.

[Anonymous]

you said: 'but my fear is that I dont have the tools to communicate to the person my feelings.'

It is not only about communicating your feelings. You are not the only person in any relationship. It’s a relation-ship. It’s about relating. That means listening to the other person and trying to understand their needs, their point of view. It means seeing if the two of you see things in a similar way, or not.

Maybe your ex has numbed you against trying to understand other people, but if you continue thinking people are around to make you feel a certain way, you’ll be very lonely.

Oh and women are people too. They’re not just objects on this earth to enable men to feel a certain way. I wonder what your friend made of your date. Maybe you could ask her.

[bkkabri]

Hi, thanks for the responses.  I think what I am trying to say is that it was nice to good on a date and feel connected to the person where we communicating and nothing seemed repressed in conversation with uncomfortable issues.  My ex somehow has taken everything I said and twisted it to make me sound like a jerk who could care less about her needs.  I am concerned about communicating because I dont know what to believe anymore in the sense that I felt like I was doing the things a man should do for a woman to be understanding and caring.  I also wanted at times to feel like we were connecting and having fun.  The problem was that she is obsessed with work so I stayed busy in my life to allow here the time.  Now I am suddenly not good enough because she is a medical professional and I dont understand.  I know its impossible, but I just wish I understood how this woman changed on me because I still love the image of the one presented.  My mind is killing me because I know she is probably presenting that person again to others, and I want to know why that presentation stopped for us.  All I asked for was some intimacy and closeness.  I cant beleive that was asking too much.

[onlyrenting]

Hi, (this may sound corny but it came to me I need to look at people as who they are and not trying to change them. I need to realize me and my needs can't come from someone who is not capable of giving)

try a different approach to yourself.

1. there are crows and doves

Crows sit and yak yak yak. no matter what you do they are still crows.
lets say that all Crows are BIG Ns. (so why waste your time.)

2. You are a dove you need love and caring doves around you.

3. The Crow sees you are a Dove. The Crow is hungry you look like Candy to him. The Crow will charm you but dont forget she/he  is still a crow. Nothing you can do. (trick them that you too are a CROW)

4. Build a good mental foundation for yourself so YOU can see the Doves in your life. You should be confident to find only the Doves. Keep learning about the signs of the Crow and fly away. Keep reading the message boards and learn like I have learned. I will not be able to leave my N until I become knowledgeable in the Doves that I seek.....And who are the crows.

Hope this helps

[Anonymous]

<<I cant beleive that was asking too much.>>

You were asking too much -- from her.

If you behaved toward her as you do with this group, I can see that this relationship had problems. Can you see how people are frustrated that you haven't responded to anything they've said? That you repeat the same thing no matter what is said to you, positive or negative? Maybe she also became frustrated.

bunny

[bkkabri]

bunny, I am sorry that you feel to say the things you say, I am trying to get feedback to share my experience with people who have dealt with someone who started out as an angel and then became the devil all while I maintained my composure.  I am grief stricken at the fact that a person who claimed to support me and love me in a very natural way just drifted off into la la land and then turned on me without me doing anything but stand there and act "normal".  I am truly looking for perpective because when you spend two years with someone and over a year they drift away and you ask and they retreat, it scares you.  I still love my ex and would do anything to change what happened.  I am sorry you feel the way you do, and I am trying, but the truth is that my mind is reeling knowing that the red flags were there and I did nothing.  I never questioned my ex or burdened her until she freaked out about all these women on television.

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry bkkari, I have to agree with bunny. Although this is a forum to find our voices, I am uncertain if it's productive or healthy to go over and over and over the same things. Other folks, I'd like to include myself, have given you good advice but it doesn't seem to penetrate or get acknowledged. With all due respect, it seems that you're almost enjoying this morose state in lieu of taking action toward alleviating it. Sorry but that's my opinion, for what it's worth.

bludie

[Anonymous]

I'm the guest who asks questions.

You said: without me doing anything but stand there and act "normal".

Acting is not required. Be yourself. If you're not sure who that is, find out. If that makes your fearful, see a therapist.

You said: I still love my ex and would do anything to change what happened.

You 'love' a fantasy, you do not love a real thinking, feeling, person. You're locked inside your own head and you simply don't seem to relate to other people. And you haven't referred to the board being hacked. I wonder why. See a therapist.

[Anonymous]

Dear bkkabri,

Here is a link to an essay about "Breaking Free from Emotional Bondage".  There is a line in it that  talks about learning to face yourself and your fears and stop staring at your oppressor.  This is maybe what you are doing.

I understand it.  I did it too.  And I did it for too long.  It didn't help me heal.  I just stayed stuck in anger and incredulity that this person could do these things.  I stared and I pointed and I blamed.  

What the essay made clear to me was that although my exNH did all sorts of bad things to me, I still had some responsibility.  And that responsibility was to myself.  

Take a look at the essay and see if you see yourself in it.  I know that I did.  We understand that you are hurting.  We have all been there in that place of pain and captivity.  

The danger is, as the others have pointed out, in enjoying the pain, enjoying the staring , the pointing, the blaming.  When this is true, well.... you just end up in another painful relationship.   No healing, no net gain, no VOICE.

Good luck on your journey,

Gingerpeach


[/url]http://www.mtoomey.com/breakingfree.htmlhttp://

[Anonymous]

>bunny, I am sorry that you feel to say the things you say...


Hi bkkabri--  I really believe that ones very best, and most valuable allies are the ones that will tell things to them straight.  I prefer to be told what I need to hear to grow and move forward (in a caring way of course)rather than people tip-toeing around me, enabling, or coddling me.  Yes, I might find it painful at the time and even question it to myself at first, but ultimately, the jolt of honesty widens my perspective and helps me out of ways of thinking or being that are not helpful (and are even hurtful) to me.  

>I am >trying to get feedback

>I am truly looking for perpective

From what I've read on the board, you have received a lot of feedback and perspective.  Part of ruminating, or being stuck emotionally, is when we look past whatever support or possible aid given to us, and just keep going over the problem again & again.  It is goes something like:  

Q: "I have a bad headache. What should I do"?   A: Take two aspirin & it will go away.

Q: My head is throbbing & I have to go to work. I don't know what to do.  A: Take two aspirin.  

Q:  I was fine a few hours ago and I don't understand where this headache came from- I'm lost -help!   A: Too frustrated to answer at this point...

It might be a bad example, but do you see a little bit, how getting stuck does not let you see possible solutions to help you heal and move on?

>but the truth is that my mind is reeling knowing that the red flags were >there and I did nothing

 That would be a good thing to focus on, then.  Doing some introspection about your own self and why you think you ignored the red flags.  I was involved for 5 years with someone with N behavior, and I ignored all the flags in the beginning, and for years.   I had to look at why, and in fact am still doing a lot of introspection over the whole thing.  

I don't question the whys & hows & details of the relationship anymore because I know about narcissim and why things happened the way they did. I am trying to focus only on things that will help me heal & move forward. Even if the whole relationship scenario seems highly complicated, it becomes much more simplified when you chalk it up in general, to the behavior of a narcissist.    

If you are looking for a reason all this happened, then like I mentioned in another mail to you, read up all you can on narcissim and it will explain a lot of your X's behaviors that you question.  

It also might help you to re-read some of your prior questions and replies on them, before you ask a new question. You might be surprised and see "oh!  I didn't realize it but I asked this already".  Then, you can sit and try your best to really absorb and consider the replies given to you.

It is normal that you are hurting tremedously and grieving ((hugs to you)).  This is a very painful place to be in, and grieving is part of the healing process.   Though, you can grieve in rumination which will prolong and exacerbate pain, or at the same time you grieve, you can work at moving forward.   You can do both at once.

It's by far, very hurtful and devastating to come out of a relationship with an N, and I really wish you well!  I used to be on a board where all of the relationships were about romantic involvment with N's (not parent-child) and I can tell you that it was in the high 90 % range that once completely devastated people were able to move on and actually feel okay (and even very happy  ) again.    

BT

[BlueTopaz]

Me- BlueTopaz, above....