Farm Doin's

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Farm Doin's - 2020

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sKePTiKal:
Lighter, if I could, I would lock things up. Logistical reasons; practical reasons; why that's not possible. But that, IMO, is the least of the issues here. This is more of a - you don't bite the hand that feeds you lesson for S... and no work-y, no eat-y. I've gotten several spontaneous genuine "thank you" hugs from Hol - but never once have those words left his mouth... like he's a "little prince" and just expects everything to flow to him from everyone.

Yes Hops, I still own everything; I will pay the additional taxes on the hut - and it's my house too, until I ride off into the sunset. The land lease lets them rent use of X amount of land and gives them a legal basis to residence in the hut, without it being a rental situation or creating an additional income (and taxable income) situation for me.

It's an understatement to say I don't like this aspect of him. And given that the rest of the time, he simply lurks around here like a ghost (except for working on HIS stuff) I truly don't know much else about him. But often our children hook up with people we don't like. I don't have to like him... but one thing you simply do NOT do, is make a personal demand from one's benefactor (his checkbook balance aside) in an attempt to protect your male ego territorial rights. Especially, when you don't step up into that role of protector, provider and equal partner. I can see where B would threaten him that way. But then, most people would try to talk through those kinds of things and get to know - or at least SPEAK to a new person that's coming into your home, or at least where you're living, if you were concerned, right?

B isn't a physically big guy. Divers are necessarily smaller to get into awkward places working on ships & subs. He also doesn't project a dominating, controlling or "bad person" menacing energy around him - in public or private. He's capable, yes. So this is all S's insecurities, and I haven't seen enough redeeming qualities to consider him a permanent "feature" here. Not with how close he is to ex-girlfriends. One of which, seems to have the same entitlement attitude he does. She was dropping broad hints to Hol during the last visit (oh, yes... I'm so intolerent & rigid, right? /read: sarcasm) about designing/building her own house out here. EXCUSE ME???? I don't think so.

It's not like I had much of a choice about S moving in here. Hol presented it to me; was dead set on it; and it would've definitely risked our relationship for me to say no. And I've been bringing my wishes & concerns to her about his behavior ever since. That has covered the continuum, of me asking her to ask him - since he doesn't talk to me or acknowledge me when I talk to him - to modify his habits/behavior... to my nuclear melt-down over the tools when I was trying to work.

She is definitely squarely in the middle here. And I know the same things that irritate me are going to irritate her when they don't change. I know that he doesn't have clue one what the word commitment means. But it's like if she brought home a stray dog that had problematic behaviors that weren't able to be changed or commandable - and has the clear & obvious traits of turning on you. (And yes, that fact about not being able to change people when they tell you who they are, came out my mouth during the group meeting in front of him.) I am going out of my way to not make her misery any bigger than it is, and to remain non-confrontational or force her into any decisions. But I'm not letting her try to polish this turd and pretend she's happy when she's not. She brings up issues often, before I utter a word. And since I express emotions with my whole body - she clearly knows when I'm upset or angry.

Until she makes the decision on her own, that this isn't what she wants to live with... I feel like my hands are tied. But then, I've also been running through a couple hard & fast "no's" that might be forthcoming after I've calmed down a little. As far as I'm concerned - if B's presence here, without any overt actions on his part - is so upsetting to S that he must leave - I don't really care. And if Hol is fool enough to chase after him, I won't try to stop her. This guy is a player, a taker, and he doesn't WANT to fit in and participate and shoulder the work here. And he doesn't care anywhere in his psyche want anyone else wants.

Not something I want around here. Period. My concern is Hol; and getting her the therapy she needs to stop repeating this pattern. Her anxiety levels are off the charts; and so is her energy to "do". She is positively excited about moving into the hut and his resigned, OK, I'll help you do that - if we can do this tomorrow - and no, I require a nap or food, or a walk right now instead - is truly grating on her. When she wants to be heard & her feelings/thoughts/ideas validated she seeks me out... because he really only sees her as the object that provides for his needs/wants and just isn't there for her - or gets angry at her for disturbing him.

I know what happens when resentments build up over a long time of trying to resolve a problem that only gets pushed off the table because it's not "convenient" at this very moment.

Hopalong:
Oh, that makes sense. (Land lease and tax planning.) Got it.

Is Hol aware that she can go online and find nearby Ts who work online and some who specialize in abusive relationships, etc? If she is, is there a need for you to find a T for her or can she find her own?

Do you think discussing S with B a lot, and/or H & S's feelings of threat about B, will make it easier or more difficult for B to anticipate his life with you on the mountain? Just wondering if holding back most of that might be healthier for you two starting out together IRL, so he doesn't get drawn into drama that's not his? Or feel something toxic will be going on out of the gate?

I know you can't wait for this new chapter to begin, and I hope it is all the wonderful you're hoping for. Can't see why it wouldn't be, if S & H are not allowed to hijack it.

hugs
Hops

sKePTiKal:
Dunno Hops. I get to hear all his drama, so he might as well hear about mine. And it feels more honest & full disclosure-ish to let him know what exists here. So he can decide if he can let me deal with it, or get involved at my request (and within limits) or if he'd rather avoid it at all costs. He knows I'm handling it OK for now; and he doesn't need to ride to my rescue. I am confident he wouldn't do that unless I specifically asked him.

Yeah, we have that level of honesty & vulnerability between us now. He's not without courage emotionally - even as much as he's been hurt previously. He won't add problems to the situation either. Hol is MOSTLY OK with him, and right now that's the only other person that counts. And she doesn't figure that largely in the picture. If I can let her relationship BE - despite what I see, I know she will let mine be too.

Neither of us is a stranger to toxic; it's a PITA BECAUSE we have so much experience with it - but that's ALL it is, despite my freak out the other day.

lighter:

--- Quote from: sKePTiKal on August 08, 2020, 06:29:50 AM ---Lighter, if I could, I would lock things up. Logistical reasons; practical reasons; why that's not possible. But that, IMO, is the least of the issues here. This is more of a - you don't bite the hand that feeds you lesson for S... and no work-y, no eat-y. Oh, Amber. There's a difference between us.... when my stomach "clicks" as my father used to say... that's IT. That man would be told the tools are OFF LIMITS to him and why. I did that with my "renter" on the island..... I took the keys. I told him WHY I took the keys. I was sorry I had to remove his access to the tools, bc I'm sure it impacted his life in a very striking way. It didn't matter. He never would have been respectful of the tools, no matter how I asked.

You might not be able to lock the tools up BUT you can put boundaries in place... S CAN'T GO INTO THE TOOL SHED or borrow tools any longer bc A, B, C and D.

About his refusal to contribute, express gratitude (maybe he feels it? I have no idea) or honor you as a human being..... you can't control that and I know better than to try. THAT has to be worked out by Hol. Watching you set and hold boundaries will help Hol feel better about doing it herself, when the time comes, if the time comes. Just saying.... tools, in my family, are sacred. We return them in better shape than we borrowed them. Them's the rules. I've gotten several spontaneous genuine "thank you" hugs from Hol - but never once have those words left his mouth... like he's a "little prince" and just expects everything to flow to him from everyone.

Whatever he expects.... you can't know. What he's allowed to take and have, from you and your coffers, is another matter.

It's an understatement to say I don't like this aspect of him. And given that the rest of the time, he simply lurks around here like a ghost (except for working on HIS stuff) I truly don't know much else about him. But often our children hook up with people we don't like. I don't have to like him... but one thing you simply do NOT do, is make a personal demand from one's benefactor (his checkbook balance aside) in an attempt to protect your male ego territorial rights. I don't don't care WHY he's behaving as though he's experiencing a psychotic break with reality. I DO care he's doing it TO you, while leveraging Hol emotionally. His inability to reason or use logic is concerning, IMO. Especially, when you don't step up into that role of protector, provider and equal partner. I can see where B would threaten him that way. But then, most people would try to talk through those kinds of things and get to know - or at least SPEAK to a new person that's coming into your home, or at least where you're living, if you were concerned, right? So appears to be acting as a child acts..... asking his mother/protector/caretaker to his dirty work, while avoiding direct confrontation or accepting responsibility for his actions and words... for forcing Hol to make irrational demands on YOU. S can't see how......
how.....
what IS this request/demand/threat he's forcing Hol to make on his behalf...
of you and B?

It's something a child would do. I saw my brother do it when he was about 7 yo..... it's very childlike. I've seen no indication S is an adult, in any sense of the word. IF he's a 7yo child, and I suspect he is.... what does that mean? I haven't thought about it much, but food for thought.

Perhaps he'd respond positively to being spoken to like he's a child>?

B isn't a physically big guy. Divers are necessarily smaller to get into awkward places working on ships & subs. He also doesn't project a dominating, controlling or "bad person" menacing energy around him - in public or private. He's capable, yes. So this is all S's insecurities, and I haven't seen enough redeeming qualities to consider him a permanent "feature" here. Not with how close he is to ex-girlfriends. One of which, seems to have the same entitlement attitude he does. She was dropping broad hints to Hol during the last visit (oh, yes... I'm so intolerent & rigid, right? /read: sarcasm) about designing/building her own house out here. EXCUSE ME???? I don't think so.
OMG the entitlement craziness is catching!

It's not like I had much of a choice about S moving in here. Hol presented it to me; was dead set on it; and it would've definitely risked our relationship for me to say no. I think you did just the rigth thing, Amber. And I've been bringing my wishes & concerns to her about his behavior ever since. When I informed youngest dd I was going to bring my concerns TO her young bf, dd got much more invested in problem solving, which meant SHE was let down, over and over again, by the boy in very poignant, impossible to miss or ignore ways. I feel this was part of why she SAW who he is, and I was only saying out loud what I was GOING TO DO.... speak directly to bf, lay out my boundaries and consequences for failing to comply. DD really wanted to skip that, though there were times she seemed relieved she could step down... she was at the point she WANTED me to speak up.That has covered the continuum, of me asking her to ask him - since he doesn't talk to me or acknowledge me when I talk to him - to modify his habits/behavior... to my nuclear melt-down over the tools when I was trying to work. He really shouldn't have access or the right to use your tools, Amber.... IME, of course.

She is definitely squarely in the middle here. And I know the same things that irritate me are going to irritate her when they don't change. You betch'a. I know that he doesn't have clue one what the word commitment means. I don't care what he feels or thinks or knows. I care that Hol is drawn to men who criticize her, don't support her and can't enter into adult reciprocal relationships. I care about her seeing this, and deciding if that's what she wants to spend her time doing, or not. But it's like if she brought home a stray dog that had problematic behaviors that weren't able to be changed or commandable - and has the clear & obvious traits of turning on you. (And yes, that fact about not being able to change people when they tell you who they are, came out my mouth during the group meeting in front of him.) I am going out of my way to not make her misery any bigger than it is, and to remain non-confrontational or force her into any decisions. Just as long as you aren't allowing your boundaries to be crossed. It's right and good to allow Hol to make her decisions about her boundaries. It's not OK for her or S to decide what you have a rigth to protect, for yourself, or not, IME. YOu get to set those boundaries, regardless of any discomfort it creates for Hol or S. That's how it works. You show Hol how to DO it. Hol feels more pressure and has the chance to understand what she's up against more quickly IF you hold your boundaries for your own sake... nothing to do with making choices for Hol. Just you and your stuff.But I'm not letting her try to polish this turd and pretend she's happy when she's not. She brings up issues often, before I utter a word. And since I express emotions with my whole body - she clearly knows when I'm upset or angry.
Maybe try saying...
"let me know how that works out for you."

There's something chilling to FEEL lone is completely on their own, when in a bad situation. To be left to their own devices.... all the energy Mom puts into it.... withdrawn, sans emotion. Besides, Hol knows how you feel. Saying it or showing it again hasn't worked. Maybe pulling back entirely, in regard to her relationship to S, will help Hol reflect.

Until she makes the decision on her own, that this isn't what she wants to live with... I feel like my hands are tied. But then, I've also been running through a couple hard & fast "no's" that might be forthcoming after I've calmed down a little. As far as I'm concerned - if B's presence here, without any overt actions on his part - is so upsetting to S that he must leave - I don't really care. And if Hol is fool enough to chase after him, I won't try to stop her. That's the spirit, Amber.
Wish them well, then go back to your joy. Show Hol how it's done. This guy is a player, a taker, and he doesn't WANT to fit in and participate and shoulder the work here. And he doesn't care anywhere in his psyche want anyone else wants. That's only your problem with regard to his touching YOUR things.... with you giving or not giving him things and food out of your own pocket, and how he affects Hol.

Unfortunately, all you can do is what you're doing... keep your hands off the HOL/S relationship, and focus on you and your stuff. I say consider telling him he's not allowed to touch your tools. I'm n ot sure why this is a problem.

Not something I want around here. Period. My concern is Hol; and getting her the therapy she needs to stop repeating this pattern. Exactly.Her anxiety levels are off the charts; and so is her energy to "do". She is positively excited about moving into the hut and his resigned, OK, I'll help you do that - if we can do this tomorrow - and no, I require a nap or food, or a walk right now instead - is truly grating on her. When she wants to be heard & her feelings/thoughts/ideas validated she seeks me out... because he really only sees her as the object that provides for his needs/wants and just isn't there for her - or gets angry at her for disturbing him. You have great compassion for her and her plight. I hope you find ways to help Hol feel the weight of her situation.... so she doesn't feel you're carrying it with her. Let her have the entire weight of it, Amber.. if you can.

Hol's a smart girl. She cares what you think. It'possible she'll care more if she doesn't feel you're walking with her on this difficult path. You don't have to share your opinion one more time... she already knows. Lighter

I know what happens when resentments build up over a long time of trying to resolve a problem that only gets pushed off the table because it's not "convenient" at this very moment.

--- End quote ---

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