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Farm Doin's - 2020

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sKePTiKal:
I wouldn't just drop in on him Hops. Of course I would ask.

Hopalong:
I hope he says Yes, Amber.
I think it could be a beautiful bonding time,
hard as it may be.

(Nah, I'd never think you'd just appear.)

hugs and hopes,
Hops

lighter:
Warning....  B and his situation, as far as I can guess, is about to be processed in this post, mostly with very few facts and likely misunderstandings about any facts you have shared, Amber.  Proceed with caution, a huge grain of salt, and perhaps not at all.


 B's needs vs his wants, according to Lighter, which isn't worth much, if anything, bc Lighter doesn't know much about the situation, but.......

 B WANTS to keep the peace with his ex, which makes sense.

B NEEDS help,  bc he's struggling physically with pain, mobility and insomnia...... infection..... lack of competent medical care...... access to medical care seems restricted and ongoing pain makes it difficult to think clearly.  OR DOES he NEED HELP?  Who's helped him, post surgery, in the past?  Anyone at all?  I keep thinking what he's going through is major, but I can't tell based on B's going through this maybe? alone? 

I see the benefits of allowing B to handle it on his own, to preclude the stirring the pot as dd readies for college during COVID.  I am all for peace where children are concerned.  Protect and give them wings... all that. 

On the other hand.... IF the ex isn't a sociopath,  bent on turning the DD against her father bc he's somehow broken and deserving of ridicule bc of his scars and injuries..... wouldn't she be a good person to take the DD to college and get her settled in.  And... how does B KNOW what he ex is saying to the adopted dd?  Does dd tell him?  Is he present when she SAYS these things?  Is he reading texts or e mails?  Letters?  Is the woman standing in the driveway or at the business or in the HOME saying these things?  Not my business... I know that, but I'm processing anyway, bc I've never actually done it, up to this point. 
 
So, CAN the ex take dd to college, if B can't do it?   I wouldn't allow anyone to take my precious child to college, and settle her in IF I COULD BE THERE myself.  But... there are times when letting go, and letting my children figure things out feels just right... like relaxing in a cool pond..... and letting the water support me.  I have to let go of many bothersome ideas and things, first... what's lurking in the holes on the bank.... the algae creeping towards me..... possible snakes and snapping turtles.... then forgetting those things and focusing on the water and sky and the feeling of being refreshed and in nature has space to be what it is.....ME in my moments, NOT worrying about daughters with the ability to care for themselves, even though my heart would break in letting go the trip to college, and seeing everything is just right and safe and comfortable for my child.  Heck, there might be fear about the ex really connecting with the dd.  I dunno. 

As Hops mentioned, we don't know the ex's story..... if the mother is toxic, or a loving woman who left her newly adopted dd for reasons that make sense (COULD any reason make sense?) and now has good intentions toward that child, even though she's saying negative things about the only present parent in her life.... the father.  Again, how do we know what she's saying and how she's saying it? 

And my mind continues probing the edges of what the ex is DOING in her adopted daughter's life NOW that she's grown and on her way to college.  Why show up now?  Why bark orders and assume authority when she's been absent so long.  Does she fear she'll lose the insurance and co payments now that the child is an adult?  If so, why?  He's never been obligated to pay those things, why would dd going to college change that?  It wouldn't. It's his plan to see the house... that's likely the BIG factor here, but why?  If it puts money in her pocket, why remain clinging to B, all the while bad mouthing him, allegedly, and being a terrible person no one would want to do anything for, if that be the case.   


I understand caring for someone I've cared for for 18 years, even if they've hurt me and left me with health issues, a newly adopted dd, and taken my older child physically away from me.  I understand paying for things that make her OK, bc the children NEED for her to be OK, and I WANT her to be OK, and I want as much serenity for both my dds as can be managed.

And so B has a sensitivity to conflict regarding the ex.  The ex left him, and shouldn't be bothered if he has a gf, BUT B represents her as a sort of con woman who'll interject herself INTO your life, Amber, and make claims on your money, as well as his, IF she knows about you. That was the idea I got from one of your posts, Amber... not that it was what you meant, but again... I don't know.  Just spit balling here with what I have to go on.

The ex is an unstable con woman, or she's not.  It's either true, or it's false.  The ex is either a deeply disordered individual, who B remained married to for 18 years, adopted a daughter with AND would have remained married to all this time IF given the chance OR he's misrepresenting her, and has reasons to do so.  People change.  People lose their minds after years of being stable.  They meet other people, get scared, and they run away from big scary change, which was B's situation with the injuries he sustained.... in all ways.

I'm getting to my point, which is Hop's idea about you being there with B during the surgery, Amber. 

IF it's SO important to B that you never meet the ex, never experience her, that she never has to experience you.......
the ex's reactivity to HIS having a new gf.... that;s something I want more information about.  I don't think it's a silly small thing, and I want to know specifics about this ex person's behaviors so I DON'T have to worry. 

What does B owe you or anyone, regarding his history with this woman?  Maybe nothing.  Maybe something.  That's yours to figure out, Amber. 

B was free to date and marry and have relationships with anyone he chose after the divorce.   If B is saying he had to hide all his relationships from the ex.... or that he didn't have any relationships BC of the ex's reactivity...... that's ringing really OFF to me.  AND... maybe throwing more red flags on the field.

The ex is either a cruel person who makes fun of B's scars, or she's not.  B is either reactive and off base, OR he's misrepresenting the situation on purpose or bc his experiences have colored his POV..... or he's telling it straight, and the facts is the facts.

I normally don't think about it this much, but I always see red flags before I stop thinking about it, Amber.

Since you believe in B.....
since you believe he's representing the situation as he believes it to be.... I have to go with your gut and B's actions.... caring for an adopted dd while struggling with physical wounds and surgeries ON HIS OWN, and with a divorce from a woman who allegedly filed it, AND abandoned her newly adopted dd... I keep writing that, over and over, and that means I'm reacting to the ABANDONED A NEWLY ADOPTED CHILD then PING..... I'm off again.  I just can't make it square up, for me, which isn't important, and means nothing, I realize. 


You have information and feelings backing up B's narrative that the ex is  likely going to interject herself into his personal life, but to what degree should be be worried about that, if at all?  With my history, it would be illogical for me to NOT want to know what I'm about to be dealing with, if anything, really.   

What CAN she do, and what problems can she create?  He presents her as a sort of waifish person.... requiring his help with medical insurance and bills, with her hand out, but all the while ridiculing him for his wounds and scars suffered in battle and from surgeries....... which honestly paints a picture of a bully, stomping around, sticking their finger into
the emotional and physical wounds of someone she was married do, and cared about supposedly,   for 18years, for what reason is she doing that, AND why would B continue to reward that behavior?  Never mind.  I know why, can think of many reasons, but not understanding means imagination has it's way with me, finally, on this thread.

WHO does that?  Who leaves a newly adopted child BEHIND in a divorce, after the trouble it took to adopt that child?  Ugh.  My heart pulls and bleeds thinking about that child's face when she learns new mama is hitting the road, with the real dd, and not coming back.  IF that's what happened, OMG. 
Heart. 
Bleeding.

And we're back to the original red flags of B not wanting you in or around his world..... his ex, his business, for reasons of peace in his life, which I get...... and you haven't met his dd, but you know she exists and you know she's her daddy's girl.  At least you know he told you his dd knows about you.  B is trusting she won't tell her newly engaged mother about you...... it seems pretty important to B that she doesn't......

::sigh::.

I have to wonder.... who raised this child while he was in the field?
Who cared for her while he was in hospital?

Because I've experienced a man who brought me a Christmas tree, professed deep love with the words of a young vulnerable boy.... creating feelings of love and bonding (with an ASPD N) I read your story about the jeep fixing trip and feel fairly neutral about it.  I'm not triggered BUT I notice the same falling and feeling and intense feelings of commitment I had. 

About keeping you separate from his entire family life and world..... I recognize that also.  There were reasons ASPD kept me separate from his FOO..... and most of his life..... bc he had deniability, and was hiding a life he didn't want me to know about.  It meant he didn't get caught in lies as often... could lie at will, without consequences, and his life of subterfuge was much easier, bc I pretty much let it go that way. 

And so, in closing.... I gently point out my experiences and causes for all the red flags I perceive on the field. 

I agree with Hops..... B needs you by his side if he's recovering from major surgery that could go bad in SO many ways, IME. 

He might consider having you there, or not. 

As the woman pledging her heart to this man, for the foreseeable future in her mind, it seems reasonable B would invite you in, at this point, and begin
sharing
his
life,
problems,
and joys...
 with you.

But I don't know what the X factor of the ex really IS, do I?

I don't know how much sharing you require, honestly.  Less than most, certainly, and I SO GET THAT as a woman who didn't require her husband AT the hospital during either birth, or require a visit, for that matter.  I don't require a lot of attention BUT I DO REQUIRE HONESTY, to know I'M SAFE, to know I'm not being put in HARM'S WAY, and I dimon't want to be blindsided by something important, conned or made a fool of.  Since all of the above happened, I guess you could say I might be playing devil's advocate here.... a little.

I know what nutsy koo koobatshit kerazy making stunts people can pull, how they absolutely should be avoided at all costs and how much regret is involved when all steps to mitigate that harm are not taken... what that feels like.  It would suck if B has everything dialed in, as well as it can be dialed, and your mixing into his life, before he sells the house and makes a break DOES create complications and unforseeable chaos you end up wishing you'd avoided, kwim?

THat....  Holy cow, if I only knew then what I know now.... feeling..... is a really tough thing to fee, IME. 

Every attorney I ever had needed to learn the hard way, with me paying all the bills and suffering for their refusal to LISTEN or understand what I was plainly telling them.....

so here I am.   Wondering what B means, exactly, when he wants to keep the ex in the dark.  IS he downplaying how bad the crazy would be?  Is he overstating it?  IS IT IMAGINARY in his head? 

Sharing more than the edges of my causes and conditions with you, Amber, and my process here.... you could have stopped reading many paragraphs ago, and that's OK. 

For me, this would be where I'd WANT the rubber to meet the road....my inclusion in B's life, as his partner...NOT future partner, but actual partner in life, at this point...... I'd want to BE there, at his side, maybe during his trip to drop the dd at college, and certainly advocating for him at the hospital, which seems a no brainer to me, bc we all need advocates when in hospital, IME.  I'm not saying it's necessary, or that it's the best or right thing... I'm saying what I WOULD WANT. 

I'd want to be there for the surgery, or anything serious going on healthwise, but that's me and I can't always be trusted, bc of.... the codependence... thing. 

BEING THERE would require a POA, perhaps, giving you control over what happens to him IF, God forbid, the worst happens and he's unable to make decisions for himself AND.... who IS his POA, or decision maker SHOULD something go sideways?  His dd?  His OTHER dd?  And.... IS anyone advocating for him at the hospital?  Or... was there anyone advocating, before the time of COVID?  It might be everyone's banned from the hospital, besides actual patients.... seems likely.

I guess what I'm getting to is....
IS his ex wife the person who makes decisions for B, if he can't?  DOES she go to the hospital, or did she, when he had prior surgeries?

It's never been clear to me, nor should it have been, WHAT B's relationship with the ex is like, if it's like anything at all.  I'm just saying..... her LIVING with him would account for him wanting to keep you out of sight, out of mind in reference to the EX, IMO.  THAT is one of the only things that makes sense to me, regarding his secret squirrel policies regarding the ex, AND.....
I'm almost done here....
would it  be upsetting to you IF that were the case?  Maybe she lives in a little in law suite?  Maybe she lives in another County?  It seems odd that you don't know, IF you don't know, and perhaps you do.

I wouldn't be bothered by anything OTHER than the fact he wasn't up front with it.  I wouldn't be jeloaus or care if he was taking care of her, providing a place to stay, time with dd, even if they occasionally shared a bed, which I doubt they do based on B's account of how the ex FEELS about his injuries, etc. 

Would I be bothered if he planned to sell the house, her house too apparently, hand her money then disappear, after taking care of her in recent years or months without telling her was going to disappear and let her fend for herself without warning?  She SHOULD be fending for herself, but..... it seems a little whonky to my spidey sense.

There's a part of me that tightens up, truthfully, at leaving her in the complete dark, no written forwarding address and no way to find him, though rationally he has every right at this point, since their shared child... is she a shared child if the mom didn't have any contact all the years she was growing up?  And DID she have contact, or was it zero contact?

I think I'd care IF I was being given false information, one sided designed to mislead me information, or information that was half true, based on truth, but not really, kwim?

I care about honesty.  Always have.  Being married to a scam artist provides the ability to see from a dark POV, even if I don't want to see it.... the red flags draw my attention, and I'm putting it here so you might have benefit of my process, in hopes it provides more clarity for you, Amber. 

That's one thing I noticed about the chicken littles in my life.....
I appreciated them sharing their process bc then I didn't have to go there, not in the slightest, bc they'd gone there FOR me, shared their thoughts, allowing me to discern what I needed from it, then on I went, back to my regularly scheduled program.

Ignore the entire post if necessary. 

When you have a chance, Amber, I'd love to see you start a thread on using plants as medicine, how you grow them, and how you make them into useful things. 

::leaving the field... going to eat chicken pot pie::.

Lighter

sKePTiKal:
THANK YOU lighter: for taking the time to process all that out and put it all down. You care a lot, to do that for me. I appreciate it! It is however, quite familiar as this is the same thing, that Hol has expressed to me. She is also a Capricorn. LOL. Must be something about how y'all think and look at things.

I am not at all troubled about not having many more details about his ex, in his current situation, because it's clear he still has a soul-wound from the betrayal; and a bit of shame too - about feeling like a fool; feeling tricked after all those years only to have her bail, just as they were starting their own family. He is now, wiser and isn't likely to let his guard down with her again. (Or me either, not to put too fine a point on it.) She is needy, because of her own health issues making it impossible for her to work. And she does use that "oh poor me" to gain some assistance through the D, who feels sorry for her and sometimes from B too - because the D wants him to be more compassionate & helpful to "poor mom". They have had only minimal contact (mom & D) over the 18 years; she was adopted as an infant and so doesn't have any recall of her mom abandoning her & B. I am positive that eventually he'll be a little more forthcoming about stuff like that.

I didn't press him to "tell all" because I'm perfectly capable of checking her out on my own; which I did. Yes, her name is on the house deed. And when he sells it, per the divorce agreement, she gets half. No, I haven't told him I've done this either. No she hasn't been concerned enough about B to be there for him for the later surgeries. He has indicated that right after he was injured, that she did help him as best she could - and that was probably as much of a turn off for her, as his scars. She absolutely DOES require that when she's ill or in the hospital that he bring D to be with her. During hurricanes, she has taken shelter with them - and he described to me, how he goes to one room in the house and she another (probably D's room) and they interact as little as possible for the duration, which is his preference and requirement for offering safety and shelter. Which IMO, is more than generous under the circumstances - but it keeps the D from becoming an anxious, angry ball of energy directed at Dad.

Most of these conversations were face to face, so I could look in his eyes and observe his body language. I've gotten pretty good at reading the tone in his voice, too. Yes, I realize I got the "reader's digest" version of the story and that the details of it are likely pretty messy, still hurtful, and more than likely worse than he's shared to date. I wouldn't dare to begin filling him in on the gory details of my divorces and the arguments, etc. And I don't much see the point in that unless it's cathartic to talk about it or instructive about how I see relationships in general. Making it easier to let old hurts go. In my case, I was almost always the one doing the leaving; because I saw the writing on the wall quicker, I guess. The few times I have been left instead - while I was counting my lucky stars to be out of the relationship, there is still a small bit of those awful feelings about rejection left behind long after.

Which is why, I'm insisting on a non-traditional form of committed relationship. As comfortable as I feel about moving forward with him, and the high level of trust I have in him (and in my work on myself) there is always a risk involved. Unknowns and try as we might - expectations & hopes that sometimes are disappointed.

He is not close with family at all; old hard feelings exist between them, even. He does stay in touch with one cousin, who I am also familiar with and to. So except for his kids, and a handful of people he still trusts, he is almost untethered to his whole past life. So at his age, he sees this as an opportunity to start over and not be obligated to the people in his past. His whole nature revolves around being the fatherly type - so when his kids need them, he'll be out the door to them asap. It is how I am with Hol, too. I respect that in him.

He has expressed the desire to live quietly, peacefully, without games or drama - he's had his fill of that. Hence, his much tighter and stronger boundaries with people and his wariness of trusting people too soon. I understand that too.

I will remind you, that B & I go back YEARS prior to his first visit last year. We talked to each other and interacted within a group of mutual friends who have become pretty close over the years and are very supportive of each other, even beyond just talking online - much like us regulars here. Many have met in person; or gotten together to help each other out IRL... celebrated new children, held hands through losses... that group has even rallied for B, with various ideas, care packages, and what-not during his surgeries. And it finally got through to him, that they would stand by him... just as I have... and he was deeply touched and told them so, very simply.

The POA thing has crossed my mind too. His D is 18 now and is most likely his current POA. It's on my list of things to discuss with him, when he's here. Not to make any changes - but to inquire as the facts and ASK if he's planning to leave things that way. Hol is mine; and with her living here at the moment I see no need to change that. Should she start working again and having to go states away to work... then, I'd rethink that and consult with her about it. Before suggesting any changes. (She's likely to include that in any discussion of going to work in say, New Mexico or where ever, knowing her.)

Red flags, to me, always relate to a fear of unequal power within the relationship or about the other person or even oneself. Uncertainty about the future is always going to exist, starting something new. But I simply don't have the level of fear I used to, because by now, I've already experienced MOST of the crap that goes on in relationships and people's lives. My biggest fear, of course, is that he'll die before he even gets here to really START this relationship. But that's simply true of anyone all the time. So I know how irrational it is; and I know why sometimes it looms large for me. And so does B. He goes out of his way to reassure me he's not going anywhere any time soon, except to come here. He is the one insisting on equal power for both of us within the relationship; and it's not a trick. He gets pretty put out if I start "assuming the subordinate role"... but gently reminds me, that he LIKES me independent and standing on my own power. It's much more attractive to him than the alternative. But he ALSO fends off all my attempts to "caretake" him, too. LOL. He sees my reflexive tendency to those things and regrounds me and reorients me.

Overall, that just seems to be WAAAAAYYYY more healthy a relationship structure than anything else I've gone through to date. And since I'm determined NOT to relive any of those, I do pay attention for anything that might echo those old experiences. I am giving up no independence or personal power, in exchange for being loved this go round. We are still able to care about each other and do nice things for each other - giving up those natural human rights as a condition of being loved simply doesn't figure into our relationship. For either one of us.

Yes, I've spent even more time THINKING about this, what I know; what I don't; what I NEED to know vs stuff I just don't HAVE to know, to know "who he is". As a person. I've been over this ground about this for over a year now with myself. I'm comfortable; it's easy; yes - I worry about his health and physical ability at the hands of people who've put him through hell... and almost killed him more than once. So when I talk about the FEELINGS involved - it's because I know I've already addressed the thinking stuff; practical stuff; as well as I can to date and I can relax just feel for a change - without mixing all that up together into a giant tangled ball of yarn.

I trust me, in my OCD attention to those details and my ability to see and hold in my mind, all the possibilities and still not get frozen into paralysis. I trust my intuition and sixth sense about truthfulness and transparency; and being able to "read" people. I'm moving forward because there isn't anything so far left unaddressed by me or him, to my satisfaction. And when there IS some question that comes to my mind, I address it to him - and get an answer, without equivocating or excuses. Yes, his current situation is a bit sensitive but it's about to become his PAST situation for him.

lighter:
I'm releived B stops any attempt to caretaker him on your part.  I don't know why, but it seem really important to some part of me.   I know what it is... my ASPD told me he needed healing.... and he wanted to be caretaken physically every moment we were together.  WHen I had children, it became a problem. It wasn't like WE,  he and I had children.  it was ME who had 3 children, including him. 

B certainly seems overtly self sufficient, though I don't know how a man in his line of work raises an infant on his own... was she strapped to his back while he went on missions? 

Question.... IS B the guy you almost went out to help..... from your past?  From your other message board?  Or was that someone else?  It seems that person had a daughter too?  I don't think it is.

It's funny Hol and I have similar red flags showing up.  Not that I believe any are true or real.  I just need things to
square
up.  The ex being at the house during hurricanes makes sense,  and I'm glad his dd seemed to get what she needed.  I find people who can BE around exes are typically sane, nicer and very decent kind of folk, IME. 

If you feel things make sense, then I trust your gut and your ability to discern enough truth.

I felt happy when I read B reassures you he'll be around for a long time, and the only place he's going is to you.

That's hopeful and comforting, IMO.  I'm sure B intends it to be. 

Any movement on the idea of you being there for any potential surgery? 

Lighter



 

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