Farm Doin's - 2020

[sKePTiKal]

My head is not in a happy place. I recognize this as a totally stressed out space.

No more has been said between Hol and I on the topic at hand, since last week. So I've just been feeling all the swirling yuck in my own head. Not even Buck can get through and have an effect - and I'm pretty sure he feels that. Even if I don't want that...

Hol and I have chatted about misc stuff; I saw a design for leather along the lines of what she makes I thought she'd be interested in. Progress at the hut. Talked w/contractor yesterday since without any notice whatsoever... his guy started digging out at my shale pit without any coordination with me. Too close to the property line for comfort. And the utility right of way. But it's pretty clear there's some new distance between Hol & I. And that my fuse has been lit; but so far the explosion has been contained.

Which is why I feel so crappy. I'm doing that every moment of every day... because she's off busting her butt to finish up this project & make her new nest and get moved out to give me my space back and start figuring out how we coordinate after that... while S lollygags, wanders around, and snacks and naps all day long. I feel like the whole "request" to dis-invite Buck from coming here was a huge ungrateful, betraying slap in my face. Couple that, with the implied criticism of my judgement, perception, and ability to take care of myself...

and while it's all a mountainload of bullshit, it's pressing me down. The old 16-ton anvil or stinky turkey buzzard again. It's the kind of thing where if I spilled something, I might just break down in tears kind of deal. Like I can't do anything right; and everything I say, do, be, am - is somehow "wrong".

All because someone ELSE sees things differently and thinks they're "right". Maybe for them, they're right. But not for me. They can't make those decisions for me; not my "caretaker" or parent; I'm not being some romantically blinded naive little girl or desperately lonely widow here. As is documented here - I've handled my questions, doubts, concerns in a responsible fashion.

Yesterday, the guy installing my flooring called to tell me when they're delivering the wood and doing the install, so I'm going to try to finish the stone before then. Then over the weekend, I start dismantling/moving my bedroom so they can pull up the carpet and lay the hardwood. Hol is going to be moving at the same time but she said she'd help. So I'll be trimming stone veneer with a tile saw today; joy joy. I need to get my head on a little more balanced than this before I dive into that. Power tools, yeesh.

But it might look like progress in my 'hide out" space which is about the only place left in my house I feel comfortable in and that someone doesn't feel entitled to leave his messes. I need to shop for a big rug for the bedroom too. I feel a splurge coming up........ maybe..... if I can find something more classic and not so "trendy".

OH... and it's apparent one of them was sleeping in the other guest room. I'm guessing Hol from the beeline to the coffee pot.

[Hopalong]

Oh, (((((Amber))))).

I can so imagine how painful this has been:
I feel like the whole "request" to dis-invite Buck from coming here was a huge ungrateful, betraying slap in my face. Couple that, with the implied criticism of my judgement, perception, and ability to take care of myself...

It's no wonder there's new distance between you and Hol. As horrible and strange as it must feel, perhaps in some way that feels "wrong" it's also "right." Intense closeness and too much analytics between parent and child can so backfire. I know my D (which isn't fully parallel but maybe in some small way) went nuclear and extreme to finally individuate herself, and in hindsight, I saw how much too involved and enmeshed I was...and how out of desperate anxiety over her well being as the bipolar deepened I advised too much, analysed too much, talked too much, and so forth. And in the long run none of my "helpful" wisdom saved her. Her being fully in charge of her own destiny hit me in the face like a dead fish, and I know her life is an enormous struggle to survive. Character wise, as I experienced how she'd treat me, and to me her entitlement and cruelty were huge disappointments and also my fault--I felt responsible for everything. I kept forgetting that she'd had TWO parents, and the influences that created her were partly me but also many others, including genes she could not help. She found and claimed her own highway and she is on it. Sometimes painful things happen in families no matter WHAT one's good intentions are.

I forgave her long back and forgive myself too, but I've never been through a more painful reckoning. You and Hol are very different people and I'm NOT thinking total estrangement will happen to you. But that is why (hope this isn't just pure projection, so take it all with a shaker of salt) I think a bit more distance between you would perhaps be healthy. When a child is one's biggest focus and biggest "project", stuff warps. Adult distancing and practicing regular boundaries keep things the right shape or help them re-shape into a more viable form.

You love her so much and your mountain compound dream has been full of love and energy and creativity. It may still turn out that way, or it may become a simpler "live near" kind of thing. A grandchild might still come along, or new friendships with people who live nearby, who can come out to visit post-covid and sit on the porch with you or you and Buck and talk and be your present friends. Your peers. I wish that for you.

Be good to yourself. You are not just building a rock wall, you're climbing one. One step at a time, keeping your balance, and trying to enjoy the climb itself...that's just about where you are.

Something I was perversely glad to read was you acknowledging how very much it has HURT, bringing you to tears. You sound always so knowledgeable and competent and in control and directing and planning...all of which is TRUE about you. But you seldom portray your vulnerable side, the simple hurt of being mistreated or misunderstood. Much less by the person you love most in this world.

I know what happened with Hol would really hurt my heart in your shoes. And I'm glad you're not suppressing that. You will heal and there's every chance you and Hol will eventually find new tracks individually that will result in your relationship working a lot better. But I don't think you can MAKE it happen. Once she is deeply into her own growing up, say in a few years maybe? (sorry!) she'll have more insight and maturity than she does now. Getting T will help and doing it entirely independently of you and not processing it with you would help even more. Girl's got to grow up.

I think a parent acknowledging their actual helplessness to steer their children's lives after a certain point (surely, age 40 is that point) -- releasing the outcome, is the only power we have left. Letting them go. Even in the most functional families, letting go is a gift. But it huuuuuuurts. It's a muscle we didn't know we had to use.

Oddly, that pain can lead to peace. Even relief.

Meanwhile, you and B deserve your own time, your own shared spaces, your own private happiness that is literally NO one's business but yours. I hope you won't discuss your relationship with B with Hol. I hope you will just live it.

And if she ever begins to comment on it again, I would Shut That Door firmly. More importantly, not open it in the first place. She'll share it with S or others in her entourage and it's not private and she is not your friend, she is your child. Likewise, if you can keep your talking about Hol to B as simple as you can for the sake of you both. He'll understand that bruise and be tender with it. But you don't want it to dominate your new beginning together.

Best of all, imo, would be whether or not Hol chooses to find a T, that YOU do. For yourself.

You've been through enough on your own.

hugs and comfort,
Hops

[lighter]

Amber:

You care what Hol thinks, so it feeeels really bad when she's suffering and distanced from you, but this isn't the end of your relationship with her.  There will be endings..... Hol will move out of your house and into the hut.   S and Hol may break up.  B will join your little farm and Hol will forge whatever relationship she'll have with him....... I trust they'll work that out. I think you should to.

I don't know that you care what S believes....  I doubt you care much, but it's a slap in the face, and that's disconcerting as hell, IME. Not shattering, but...... sets the world topsy turvy for a while.  Till things come clear, and they will, IME. 

Breathe.....
focus on self care.

Let Hol do her own breathing and pondering on things.  This sleeping apart, S shirking work while Hol and you struggle to get things done...... Hol FEEEELS everything S does and doesn't do......  deeply, I'm sure.  I think she's feeling quite a lot of shame and humiliation,  to be honest.  I think both your fuses are lit.  Just keep sending the message you know she'll handle what's on her plate, bc you believe in her.  Leave her to it.  Tend your own plate, as you seem to be doing. 

I'm already looking down the road to when you, Hol and B are stretching your relationship legs on the farm together.  It feels like you'll all 3 find your wind and hit your strides. 

S' opinions aren't important.  Don't allow him to take up valuable real estate in your head, Amber.  There are so many more worthy people and things to think about.

Lighter

[sKePTiKal]

I think the "distance" I notice - is simply me detaching. The conversation between Hol & I the day after the "slap in the face" cleared things up between her and I. I am intentionally not following up on that; waiting for her to do her own processing. And we both play those cards close to the chest until we're sure we know what we're talking about. Hol and I have TALKED; about other things... and still have the dynamic we always had. So we're not closed to each other.

She will decide what to do about S in her own time; on her own. If B & I are respectful of that process, all we ask is that others be respectful of ours. Who knows? Once he's really HERE, we might decide it's not going to work. That is a built-in "escape clause" in our plan - with no hard feelings. He's even willing to do whatever is legally comfortable in this instance.

S can't say that. And ya know? That's now HIS problem. I don't have to explain, justify, or compare. S is NOT MY PROBLEM. And that is how I'm detaching. I also don't have to do any more than I've promised Hol, either.  I know she is immensely grateful and appreciative; and I know how uncomfortable she was being put between S's "needs" and my wants. I think I still come out ahead on the comparison of "perceptions" too - because I did second guess myself for most of a year; I made the effort and paid the fees to investigate if B's story checked out. Hol did not; I won't compare. We chose different paths for different reasons - and she has to deal with hers. That was made abundantly clear to her the day after the confrontation.

I didn't take his head off; I didn't dismiss him or laugh at his concerns. I simply argued my case. I was angry that I had to do that -- AGAIN. After all I've done to protect myself - and them - from getting involved with someone with ulterior motives. As if I'd just give up; give in. LOLOLOL. She knows better and even said it out loud in front of him - that I would do what I thought in my best interests, regardless. Yep; she knows Mom. She will eventually come around to seeing B without suspicious glasses on. Or she won't. But she's not going to have to defend herself from him, so that kinda counts for something. He's going to make her life easier, since he takes it on himself to do what needs doing - even preventatively. This is something TIME will clear up.

I have the clear advantage of having known him years longer than she has. And this decision about him moving started being seriously entertained years ago. She wasn't privy to that; she wasn't even around; as I told her: I haven't shared everything with you. B's D was getting ready to enter HS, when the invitation to visit was made. Now she's off to college. The "due diligence" aspect has been satisfied. All I'm focused on is the interpersonal stuff at this point; whether we're compatible ENOUGH; whether those deep expectations will pan out from the flirty promises.  And there's real life, too - we're older folks; not in terrible health given how hard we've both lived. Things happen externally to all of us, that require adaptation and adjustment.

Since I'm leaving the issue be and not "saying" any else about it for now... it gives Hol a chance to process the underlying emotional stuff. I have full confidence she will - as it suits her. I don't have to like her conclusions. But it doesn't mean that we can't both live our lives fully within the context of making the place work and be what it can be.

I hope S is taking notes. <insert evil grin> My idea of "evolved" is light years past his; and I came by it the hard way. I didn't just read or watch a youtube about it. Hol is his - to keep or lose - as it manifests. And I'm a LOT easier going than she is.

[Hopalong]

Not because I'm doubting she has one, but because I've never heard much about her vision:

But it doesn't mean that we can't both live our lives fully within the context of making the place work and be what it can be.

Is "making the place work" the same vision of the mountain for Hol as for you? I've heard about her doing some leather work there, and wishing to have a child, but not much more. Is she all in on the family compound/business/enterprise dream herself? Or is it more about a cool place to live and invite friends to, near you, and with space for her creative work?

I am trying to comprehend whether you're on the same page, or close enough. Sounds as though Buck's very ready to become part of your vision.

I would imagine you have thought it through and far ahead in a lot of detail, so am just wondering what Hol's dream is. What she'd like the shape of her life to be. I hope she is on board because that would be easier for you. Making films in big cities is pretty different from a cooperative bucolic arts compound, oui? Then again, maybe the bucolic arts compound is just as you said, a perfect place for her to retreat to. (And making films is a pretty team-based kind of career so it actually might fit really well once the rest smoothes out. I hope it restarts for her soon.)

hugs,
Hops

[sKePTiKal]

Well, the visions are pretty close - except I'm intent on living pretty privately, not a lot of company and she wants to be able to share the space and ambiance - and add her urban soundtrack into the hills (where I'm more likely to play bluegrass & bagpipes - or tibetan monks).

She wants to raise goats for making cheese; I'm looking at heritage breed cows - dexters - which provide milk and are a decent beef cow. I don't like pigs; anyway shape or form. S keeps ducks, geese & guinea keets - and when all this construction stuff dies down - we'll probably both have chickens, layers & meat. I want to stock the pond with fish. Buck wants to put an alligator in it - LOLOL.

She is planning to move her sewing, quilting, leather operation to the hut - which opens up the studio again. After making Buck a shirt and a parka - first sewing projects in 20 years - my old Husky decided to have a computer crash. Only local - but not close at all - place to get it looked at turned out to be a Mennonite quilt shop... and while I was there (machine fixed for free, along with the magic button combination to fix it again) I bought another mechanical one. Straight sewing machine, no embroidery, no computer. I was drooling over the industrial machine they had in the shop. I've wanted to get a loom, because I should be able to find wool to spin & weave around here. Textiles is something we want to keep going with - along with the self-sufficient garden/livestock plan.

Buck of course, needs a metal & mechanics shop. Since Holly has been learning to weld - she can refine her skill there and she's already a decent mechanical brain. B also is rock hound... and is eager to search the hills, cliff and fields for fossils, and whatever else might have lain hidden in the woods for a long time. Not to mention, he was quoting Chaucer last night... and regularly spews some Shakespeare play or another out of the lesser known ones.

I occasionally have flights of fancy about getting a horse - morgan or fjord pony - that can act as an all purpose farm animal: drive, ride & plow, timber, etc. And then I nix it - because the highway is way too dangerous for horses. Except right after the shutdown in the spring, there wasn't any traffic - especially big trucks - to speak of. Who'd have thought life would bring circumstances to the point that actual "horse" power would be feasible this soon?

New technology is blending with the old ways and I think Hol is about as committed to my idea of low-impact, but sustainable life style here. She is doing a lot of research into methods; her friend M is a master gardener & advocate of permaculture - which is the revival of old ways again - LOL. And so far, all of us can be reasonably comfortable sans the conveniences of modern life. I might have the worst internet addiction - but that's partly because the sources of local, regional & state news are pretty scanty and WV went online back when we built the first homestead. There are still pockets around that don't have fiber available yet... but there are a LOT of workarounds.

Hol is the lawn mowing queen and champion wood splitter. She also likes to build with rocks - she was my helper on those projects at the first homestead. The bobcat makes that work a lot faster, safer, and fun. She has a head full of ideas for plantings at the hut. I still have herbs in seedling pots to transplant and it's just been too danged hot & dry - and soo much OTHER crap going on. Every year, I think - this is the year I'll not have anything else to deal with and have permanent dirt under my nails. And every year, I end up saying - well there's always next year.

It has been interesting and fun to meet more of her friends; and there are overlaps in interests... so I would welcome them to the county & surrounding ones too. But I just don't want a large group of people all doing their own thing at all hours all the time out here. She's been told point blank - after I'm gone - she can do as she likes with the place. I really won't care. And there are some of her friends who are closer to "inner circle" people - who bring compatible skills and personalities and energy to contribute; so it's not like she has to ask permission to have guests in the hut. She knows to let me know if she's hosting bigger groups for a camping weekend or whatever. I've been able to be OK during those too... and enjoy the solitude I'm afforded by not being the central HQ for festivities. So it works out pretty well. (At 40-ish, most of her friends are past the hell-raising, invincible, "hold my beer & watch this" phase; that helps too.)

[Hopalong]

Oh my gosh, Amber. I love SO much about all of this.
I'm just having happy ping-ping-pings because:

I looooove goats. Used to milk some for a friend up near the mountains when he went away (when I lived out there too). Baby goats are the bomb. And the cheese...

I like aquaculture over gators, but B must have a right to his own little pet, eh?

I used to ride and looooove being near horses, but no longer for harnessing and sitting on. I hate bits. To me a horse's nostril is one of the most beautiful shapes in nature. And a horse was my friend once in a way that humbled me.

I wish I still sewed. Nmom had incredible standards for sewing...no garment came from her old Singer that did not have exquisite French seams. Dayyum. And I lived with a super talented weaver once. Same house, also included potters. Have you thought of a potting studio? Bet Buck would be awesome at that, dunno why.

Permaculture is EVERYTHING! I am so excited that Hol really does have a strong vision and it's so creative and sustainable and well aligned with yours.

As to hordes of guests or loud music...it's good most are in their 40s now and that she's clear on permissions required. I hope they'll all be considerate and wonderful to you and not disturb your peace. I have no advice except set those boundaries early and hold them consistently with no apology or anxiety. I know you can.

Where's my hut going? I'm not picky.

hugs
Hops

[sKePTiKal]

Not all of those things may manifest in reality however. I'm pretty realistic about how much I can/want to do. So, one goal at a time before I find myself in over my head. LOLOL.

Mon/Tues the hardwood is getting installed in the bedroom. I used all the stone I had, and did not finish on the wall. Out of adhesive, too. And of course, now that's out of stock at my home depot... and I'm not driving 50 miles to where they do have it... because I need to empty my bedroom and closet enough that they can get in and lay the flooring before Monday. LOLOL.

As far as what we want to do out here, I think all of us are on the same page - but it's not going to fly that one person isn't contributing to the daily chores and only taking care of his own stuff. I haven't required it till now; waited to see if he'd offer - nope. He does have his projects - the ducks & geese are providing eggs and we could eat them. Chickens will come into the picture once everyone is settled again. So, we'll see. When it comes time for Hol to fill her propane tank and figure out how to get internet down there... see if he's paying his share or not.

Yes, I worry about personalities being compatible here, but IT'S NOT MY JOB TO MAKE THEM GET ALONG. People can't act like grownups and behave - or "Happy Trails".... I got other things to think about, manage, organize and work on. It's not my job, and I'm not his mommy, to pick up after him or manage his emotions for him by making sure he's never ever uncomfortable about anything else going on here, at my - or B's - pleasure. End of negotiation. Don't like those terms? Well then, you know how to get back to your farm and I'm sure both ex GF's will welcome you and soothe your wounds.... NOT. LOLOL.

This here "country" ain't a democracy even if I will listen to everyone from time to time. It's also not a dictatorship - because I have no interest in spending my time trying to manage other people. But I do have expectations and standards.

[lighter]

So, we'll see. When it comes time for Hol to fill her propane tank and figure out how to get internet down there... see if he's paying his share or not.Yup.
Yes, I worry about personalities being compatible here, but IT'S NOT MY JOB TO MAKE THEM GET ALONG. People can't act like grownups and behave - or "Happy Trails".... I got other things to think about, manage, organize and work on. It's not my job, and I'm not his mommy, to pick up after him or manage his emotions for him by making sure he's never ever uncomfortable about anything else going on here, at my - or B's - pleasure. End of negotiation. Don't like those terms? Well then, you know how to get back to your farm and I'm sure both ex GF's will welcome you and soothe your wounds.... NOT. LOLOL.  You got that right, Amber.

This here "country" ain't a democracy even if I will listen to everyone from time to time. It's also not a dictatorship - because I have no interest in spending my time trying to manage other people. But I do have expectations and standards.
::reminded of the O-Ren Ishii's speech to the Tokyo crime bosses ::.
If anyone has anything to say... they should respectfully come to you and say it.   You're open to discuss all topics EXCEPT for how you conduct your private life.   Paraphrasing here.

::NOD::.

Lighter

[sKePTiKal]

My bedroom looks really strange with all my little still lifes/altars moved out. But it feels like the timing is right - all that "stuff" suited the hermit phase I started out here in, recovering and reclaiming "me" from all the change I'd lived through in the past couple decades. I feel like that's finally finished. So now - making space for Buck - and making the room as comfortable and healthy as I can make it. Still want to change out the french door with a good slider... but that can happen later.

Upstairs and downstairs - are the shrinking Holly piles of stuff. We are keeping fingers crossed that this week she can get serious about moving in. Yes, she's already pushing it as much as possible... while not getting in the contractor's way. And we're already starting to transition from the daily morning "what's going on" conversation to a once a week pow-wow.

There are some developments on the Hol & S front; and "little Amber" (pre-Twiggy days) made a cameo appearance to make a non-verbal but unmistakable comment. For now, I'm going to stay mum on the details -- but suffice it to say that Hol is making short work of deconstructing the imbalances in this relationship -- all she said to me yesterday was apparently she wasn't allowed to expect any more from him in the relationship because "that's who he IS" and yet, it's decidedly NOT OK for Hol to be who SHE IS. We had talked about "capability" the night before and how, while it's always possible for people to change & grow at some unknown future time... what they are capable of in the present is also important. Because that's where you're building communication (minimal in his case) and emotional connection (she's doing that all alone) and trust (:rolling my eyes so hard I'm looking out my ass:) -- she can almost certainly COUNT on him, to have some excuse when she wants to do something and even ASKING for help isn't getting her any. Because he's constantly "stuck" in his "present state" of "being who he is" and will not disturb that for what anyone around him wants/needs/expects.

So she's been doing all the moving in, and keeping quiet too... and I can see the wheels turning. A week ago she came out with: she wished she could move into the hut 3 weeks before he did. (Referring to his pigpen habits.) They have not talked since he yelled at her two nights ago and she slept in the other room. We got up and didn't see his car - thought he'd left - and sadly that was a false alarm. The temperature & atmosphere around here felt way lighter, fresher, less toxic even just believing he was gone. He's parasitical.

[lighter]

Amber: 

It felt like a penny dropped as I read that last post of yours.

There's nothing wrong with S, or how he behaves in you space.  He'll be just what he is, wherever he goes. 

He's not going to change. 

The only change will come from you and Hol.

Any time spent feeling upset over S (for me)  is wasted... he is what he is.

What Hol is, or what she becomes.... that's the great mystery I want to see unfold

What you're willing to put up with and how you'll rule over your boundaries.... THAT's fascinating stuff, IMO.

I'm on the porch, in what feels like an Autumn breeze, watching many hummingbirds flit in and out, fly by together, and feed at the edge of the porch, or check out all the red lamps, just in case they have sugar juice too, lol. 

Something clicked for me, as I read your post.
We spend so much time focused on S.... the story was never about S.

Lighter 

 

[sKePTiKal]

Perhaps Lighter. Perhaps S is for Hol, what the tarot readers call a karmic relationship - one that we learn some big life lessons from. As for me: I saw the writing on the wall a year ago. But feeling that my hands are tied - and it's NOT MY PLACE to make a final decision of whether he fits in here or is good for Hol, or even is reciprocating as much as he's gotten being here... is a pretty crappy place for me to be in. Given my nature, I'm going to have negative feelings about him - even IF energy-wise - I've spent time here alone with him (when she was in jail) and we can share a space "peacefully" with only his refusal to clean up after himself and being entitled to use & abuse my tools to irritate me. We simply did NOT interact. That is his standard way of dealing with the whole world around him. It's really not personal in my case. However, it's going to be VERY personal in Hol's case; and this is what is coming up for her, over & over again. He does the same with her - until he's uncomfortable in some way and then he's explosively angry with her.

For the most part I am detaching from much of anything to do with it. I have other things to do. (B has been a little neglected lately. But he's quite busy too.) It's in her hands; she is a big girl and I have faith she'll do what's right for her. She knows I have her back if she needs me; and I don't rise to the state of even non-verbal comments until he's being a real PIMA, in my house - and trying to tell me what I should do and be like, for the sake of his comfort. As if he's the only one who matters. There is another part of me; perhaps "little Amber"; who was wise all those years ago and is wiser still now... or my shadow side... that is working on a force field around my space and reclaiming it. It will likely be another two weeks before they're completely moved out. I am self-validating the role of "Queen of my Estate"... knowing just what I can/can't do without "unintended consequences"; knowing what is "right use" of power and what is definitely NOT; and staying strong within those boundaries. And giving her all the space & time she wants to invest in what I know, she knows is not currently what she wants. We have discussed if that's likely to change. She is still hopeful; but the last blowup has shrunk that hope somewhat.

They stayed in the hut last night; kind of camping - mostly just starting to claim the space. I even offered to make & deliver a pizza for them, if she texted me. I'm not being a bitch in this situation, but I'm not going to be pushed around either -- or let her get pushed around or manipulated. I am trying to model a helpful & respectful behavior. Hol and I checked in briefly about how she feels now; what she's thinking going forward. She is going to give him a chance to settle into their space and see if he can begin to open up to her a little more and they can find a way through the repetitive non-reciprocal nature of their private & mundane life. She will be not be overjoyed & happy if they decide it's not going to work - and that he can't accept that she is who she is, too and that she likes and respects herself this way and that's NOT being his mommy. And she is steady in the self understanding that she can't be guilt-tripped by him. She sees it when he tries it. Quite the contrary. When he threatened leaving after this last argument - which was pretty one-sided; him yelling only - she said "Go then" and went to sleep in the other room. This morning, she wisecracked that she's taking care of 3 dogs. Yeah, it's clear to her. I'm not worried on that front. She is giving him the benefit of the doubt that he will make good on the promises he's made - all conditional on being in the hut.

And he is clearly avoiding me. He's consistently told Hol I terrify him; I'm crazy; demented and having poor judgement, etc etc etc crap. Yet it didn't stop him trying to shove his entitled demand at me, to see B the way he sees him. (So, yeah it's going to be complicated - what in life ISN'T??) B has agreed to let me handle this, with some qualifications that I'm OK with. We both have extensive parenting experience and so, this situation isn't going to interfere with us. And B negotiates fairly. I know he's a man of his word, so I have a high level of trust there.

Life, however, is messy. And unexpected things happen all the time. I can't foresee everything or control those things, nor should I try in most cases. I have a high level of trust in Hol, too. And I know when it comes to relationships, she's already learned some hard lessons about guarding her own self-interests. But the times I thought he'd left or did actually leave, I certainly felt the energy in the whole space around here CLEAR UP DRASTICALLY.

I can, without malice, be a bull in a china shop with a floor full eggshells. With a giant happy grin on my face. To say I resent the NEED TO BE, because it's impossible to have a grown up rational conversation with someone who won't talk or acknowledge that my feelings are important too, without someone feeling intimidated or only considering their OWN wants & needs - and not the others around them  - is an understatement. The respect that has been afforded has not been reciprocated. And that was a basic truth I dropped on Hol almost a week ago - that it's hard to have real love without respect for the other person. Just tossed it out as a non-sequitor. Someday, I'll hear her say it in another context.

[sKePTiKal]

Thanks CB & Lighter. Honestly, I think I've spent enough brain-time on this subject - and as they spend more & more time at the hut (she's been here helping me with things to heavy to move by myself) - I can let it go and it's MUCH easier to just check in with her during our pow-wows once a week.

:shrug: Maybe he will change enough to convince her it's worth it. Maybe he won't. Will I still have to field Hol's need to express her frustrations? Probably. But I'll just tell her what she told me - talk to S and tell him how you want it done. Her kitchen counter butcherblock - all custom made by a friend of hers - now has spots on it after one night in the place because he doesn't pay attention to what he's doing and doesn't notice he made a mess - and doesn't feel it's his job to clean up after himself. Her response to that was: can you at least TRY? (Yes, she knows that it can be sanded & refinished but ONE NIGHT? REALLY??) I just looked at her and said, now you know how I feel. She didn't say if he even apologized; I have heard him do so in the past - while at the same excusing him from trying to do better, by simply saying "that's who I am". SIGH.

And we can do that; be that honest. As long as we don't push on the boundaries we've both developed over the past 2 years... we can say almost anything to each and have it acknowledged, and allow explanation or defense of self. Without it becoming an "argument" - because neither is wishing for the responsibility of controlling the other. That is way too advanced in human interpersonal relations for S.

When her complaining starts to take up too much of my time, which it has done in years past because she wouldn't just make her decision and carry it out, then I can/will be a tad more blunt and limit my time on it.

Instead of letting this take up room in my head, when they're moving out... I'm moving on to my happy place: Buck and decorating plans. And my new "studies" on some old interests. He COULD be here in as little as a month; just depends on how things go at his place.

[Hopalong]

Uggghh.
I'm very sorry you're living with this kind of resentment and undercurrent stress, Amber. NOT what the mountain dream was about.

About this:
....or let her get pushed around or manipulated.

FWIW, short of him being physically abusive to her (zero tolerance of course)...is it possible Hol will learn her own boundaries better if her capacity for learning from her mistakes is assumed?

IOW, if she herself recognizes being dominated or manipulated? If you alert her to those, in my understanding that could slowly train her to believe that she can't develop the capacity to alert herself. Undermine her own agency because you are ready to leap in front of her or advise her or spot her.

I don't mean this in an unkind way, but Hol may need to fall. And bounce. Even painfully. Before she builds a stronger sense of self.

She's got a mother tiger when she might need a mother giraffe, serenely munching a good distance above her drama.

hugs
Hops

[sKePTiKal]

Hops Hon, I KNOW she's got this, all by herself. I'm just calling her out to explain how SHE sees it and inquiring as to where her boundaries are. I'm absolutely NOT going to attempt to set them. If anything, I'm more easygoing and forgiving than she is. I'm only reassuring myself that she sees it. She wouldn't let me step in, anyway.

She's ALSO a mama tiger. Which why I'm detaching and letting it go along with all the stuff in my house... that isn't mine and I don't WANT.    The whole house will be cleaned top to bottom and then smudged. I might even wash windows.