Coronavirus

[Twoapenny]

And life is going on like normal around here; cases are low - we're a very rural state of course; neighbors separated by miles in some cases - per testing, the negative cases outnumber the positive (and I know 4 were NYS campers that brought it with them) - and the recovered cases outnumber the positives. There have been 50-51 deaths out of 1.8 million people.

Governor has a common-sense plan for getting people back to work - phased in, so that things can be halted or reversed if there is a sudden spike in illnesses/pos tests. Hospitals and clinics are back to operation for the full range of issues again. But he didn't turn the state into ghost-towns in the first place. Our farmers, orchardists, construction trades were all considered "essential" - and so are the places that supply them.

Across the mountain, it's more urban - but even so, I saw plenty of people not masked. Even store employees. There's a higher percentage of masks there to be seen - but since a mask obliterates half the facial cues for interaction and communication, people are really "over" feeling unnecessarily isolated & divided.  It's very easy to misinterpret emotional information from just eyes above a mask.

Large urban areas are likely to be the last to finally get their caseloads down to a small, managable number. But that shouldn't prevent the people who AREN'T living in those areas to get back to production supplying the needs for those cities. And of course, as ever - people who want to continue to self-isolate, wear masks, maintain a bigger "personal space" - are always free to do so. There isn't the overarching public health concern about education, information or quarantine for healthy people instead of the smaller number of sick anymore. The state needs to withdraw back into it's regular boundaries and let individuals do as they like.

It's supposed to still be a free country, right?

I wish we lived where you did, Skep, miles between neighbours would be so much better than the cramped conditions so many have to live in.  We're in a quieter part of the country where I am compared to somewhere like London, for example, but even here you're never far from anyone else and space is limited unless you're very wealthy and can buy a large plot (and that, of course makes no difference, when you go out because everyone else is out as well).

To be fair the masks are largely pointless in terms of protection; a medical friend explained it all to me and I can't remember the big words but basically masks need to be proper medical grade with appropriate filters in them to stop the germ particles entering the nose and mouth and they can also, apparently, get in through the eyes so you need eye cover to stop that problem (and visor type cover, sunglasses don't do the job!).  My worry about the masks is that they'll lull people into a false sense of security and make them think they're safe when they're not.  Additionally the healthy people versus sick people is a huge problem here, because of the healthy people passing it on to the sick people.  There's very limited testing (so no useful figures to establish how many people have it) and no contact tracing set up so anyone a positive person has been in contact with could also have picked it up, they pass it on and so on.  Our elderly, currently being applauded as it's VE Day (75 Years since we 'won the war') are currently dying in their beds in care homes without even anyone sitting by their side or sufficient pain relief because the morphine supplies are low and the care workers can't sit with them because of the risk of infection and the fact they're rushed off their feet looking after everyone else.  People like my son have been told they won't get a ventilator because they're not worth saving; no-one's really able to make a decent profit out of him because he can't work so he has no value and isn't worth the time or effort.  They've just announced that disabled people currently using ventilators as part of their disability need (not Covid related) won't be getting the filters they need for them because they're saving them for Covid patients.  These people will die without that support; again, they're disabled so their profit margins don't make them worth saving.

I think what I'd have liked to seen - and some say it's easy with hindsight although many countries had a couple of months warning this was coming so could have got plans in place - would have been to ring fence staff to look after the needs of the elderly and already sick and disabled.  So you've got those that need protecting being protected by teams who are all isolating and therefore reducing the risk of picking it up and passing it on.  Then let all the other fit and health people go out and do as they please.  They can all infect one another, get better quickly and then that herd immunity would have been in place and presumably would have kept everyone else safe as well.  I prefer that approach to the 'throw them under the bus' approach that's happening here, although it hasn't surprised me as the last ten years have been horrifying here for anyone needing help so I knew as soon as I heard what was going on that we'd be left to fend for ourselves. xx

[Hopalong]

Amber,
Treading gently I hope, but maybe it'll help us understand each other even though we see things through different lenses.

The thing about freedom, I believe, is that in a moral society individual freedoms are balanced with concern for the common good. That's why we require drivers' licenses, so 5-year-olds don't take off to drive to California to buy Lamborghinis. (Did you see that one? He was promptly rewarded for his "brave" behavior by being taken for a ride in a real Lamborghini. IOW, lauded on social media for acting "free" rather than scolded for endangering everyone on the highway.)

I think masks trigger similar yay-cowboy sentiments. My understanding about wearing cloth masks is that it's NOT as much to reduce one's own chances of getting the virus. It's part of our SOCIAL contract, because it prevents your breathing/spitty speech/cough/sneeze from infecting a vulnerable person near you. Because people without symptoms can be asymptomatic carriers for weeks without knowing it, you're just reducing the chances that you'll do harm. Possibly deadly.

I'm good with that. I'd rather live in a culture of civic responsibility and caring. No skin off my nose nor threads falling off my flag. I've been sickened by images of protesters howling humidly right into the faces of people (officers) who are trying to keep the peace or some (counter protesters) who want to peacefully point out a different perspective. Even coughing deliberately on them. It's hard to respect that.

Diff'rent strokes, but that's how I see it.

Hugs
Hops

[Twoapenny]

Well we are bracing for the second wave here now.  PM made a number of vague, confusing announcements on Sunday night that left some people thinking they could go back to work (or could force their employees into work) from Monday.  Government then said they meant Wednesday and released a 60 page lockdown easement plan that focuses a lot on guidance that will be released 'later in the week'.  The papers were full of pictures of people on crowded buses and trains.

The thing that frightens me the most is that a lot of people are taking and will take any relaxing of lockdown by the government as a sign it's safe now.  And it isn't.  We have the highest death toll in Europe and no idea how many people are walking around infected and not knowing it.  They are reducing financial support for people who've not been able to go into work so many will be forced to go back, however unsafe it is.  People are under the impression that cloth masks will keep them safe - they won't.  We're in an holiday area and there have been reports of many people turning up overnight to visit their second homes or have a few days by the seaside now.  No method in place to check the health status of any of them or meet their health care needs should they fall ill while they're here.

People are taking the fact that the NHS coped with the first wave as a good sign.  But the only reason they coped was because they cancelled everything else - every operation, every routine appointment, chemotherapy, rehab, everything.  They now have that massive backlog to work through and, with people flooding out the doors now, another wave of Covid patients to deal with, which will mean cancelling everything else again, and so it continues.  There's a massive lack of understanding, brought about by the government and the media and I'm so scared for so many people who will genuinely think it's safe now and it isn't.  I've told son we might well be in for a year and he took that pretty well.  I haven't mentioned it might be even longer.  I did manage to get my food delivery organised for Friday but we can only get one delivery a week so if it's short of anything we're going to be stuck again.  We're just hiding inside until we see how bad this next wave is going to be.

[Hopalong]

Yesterday I was getting blue about the isolation and uncertainty, and wound up searching out political parody songs on YouTube.

I think Randy Rainbow is keeping me sane. Or sane enough.

Local cases are climbing but this is not second wave, it's still first wave. We are a smallish Atlantic city and have been behind the national curve or the big urban situations like New York's. One thing that works well locally is a well-educated population for the most part, a good deal of community engagement, and a significant number of dedicated social justice organizations and efforts.

I hear you grieving for your whole country, Tupp. Maybe when it gets overwhelming though, you might want to reduce that big national picture from your focus and do something simple, like make cookies (biscuits) and leave a package of them on the doorsteps either side of you. Or figure out how to make a wee kitchen-compost container so you'll have rich dirt for things you'd like to plant.

Mainly, a news break. You are absolutely doing the best you can in this strange time, and you've done an amazing job of it.

I remember when I lived in a tiny one-room efficiency as a grad student, and had one African violet in a pot. I doted on that plant and it became extraordinary. I also adopted an injured cat I found in an alley. He'd been hit by a car and had spinal damage, so when he ate he "pecked" his food from the bowl like a chicken. But he was deeply sweet and lovely, and purred up a storm.

I'd listen to the Steve Miller Band..."if you can't be with the one you love, honey, love the one you're with." Oh those hippie days! I guess I just thought of that tune because "if I can't be in the world I'd love, I'll love the one I'm in." No matter what.

hugs
Hops

[lighter]

I've fallen down the COVID 19 rabbit hole for a while.  The part I'm trying to wrap my mind around is the blood clotting and why.  I think its nothing to do with B+ blood types, which oldest dd and I have.  I think it's the fact the virus moves through the easily infected lungs, enters the blood and infects the endothelial cells.  The endothelium is the lining of our blood vessels. It directs important functions of the vascular system like clotting and swelling. 

THIS, for me, is the most frightening aspect of the disease, along with the cytokine storm and inflammation that comes with.

Those with heart disease, high blood pressure, diabetes, and other health problems stressing the endothelium are at higher risk, which makes sense. 

My feeling around this virus is we'll find a way to be proactive around it..... instead of waiting to see who can fight it off and who can't, which seems to be our main strategy.  I understand we're gathering information so we can be responsive.  I'm not complaining, just writing out the moving parts that worry me most.

The links below are the recent rabbit holes.  Not asking for input or for anyone to read them.  They're my notes.  I'm not panicking.  I want information to make sense of what's happening around me.

Lighter




https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200424/blood-clots-are-another-dangerous-covid-19-mystery

https://www.pharmacytimes.com/ajax/study-suggests-blood-type-a-associated-with-higher-risk-of-covid-19

https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/16/blood-clots-coronavirus-tpa/

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20200521/Excessive-blood-clotting-and-stroke-in-COVID-19-patients.aspx

[Hopalong]

Lighter,
Makes perfect sense that you'd study the actual biological info, as much as we have available. Reliable sources, too. You have a very rational approach to how the brain reacts to and processes trauma, for example in your understandings of why EMDR has been so powerful. Good for you for using your innate curiosity and research drive to find out more about this damnable virus!

I'm tapped out on my appetite for more bio-detail at this point, and have decided that whatever the government, country or different groups do or don't do, my own strategy is pretty simple (and easy for me as a privileged person with food, shelter, and some social interaction covered). It's just one: AVOID.

Read a good article by an immunologist who said not to forget the reality of airborne transmission, especially when forced to be indoors with others. So that makes me feel more serious about mask-wearing. Not when friends come over and sit eight feet away, or in my car. But maybe I will start wearing it full-time on walks. Most of the time on my street close encounters are easy to avoid, but the occasional runner can mess that up. I'm not downtown or on crowded streets, though, so I have it easy. It's a broad street with yards easy to step into if needed.

It seems that the basic cloth masks don't protect US much, but do protect others from our own moist breath, much less coughs or sneezes. To avoid inhaling damp runner-breath, for example, it'd have to be the kind of respiratory mask (N95?) health professionals wear, and I'd rather walk in circles in my yard than try that. I also have an indoor exercise bike I have used mostly to hold damp laundry. !!!

I am just extremely grateful that everything I need can be safely delivered to my door, and easily disinfected once inside. It's been critical to ask myself firm questions about the difference between my WANTS and my NEEDS. So far, there's nothing except a prescription (drive-up, no-contact window) or getting gas that forces me to go anywhere so far (except for my knee x-ray but they managed distancing seriously there). Even my potting soil was safe drive-up pickup. But I don't buy food outside any more, or anything else. Haircut? Forget it. I can think of rationalizations for excursions, but unless they are absolutely no-contact safe pickup (I did that for free plants)...I'm skipping it all and hunkering down.

Probably until I'm 100. Might as well accept it, and look for happies in other ways.

Hugs
Hops

[lighter]

I gather information so I can do everything I can..... then put COVID 19 back down again for a while.

I don't want to be running around like a chicken with her head cut off if someone I know gets it.  I don't want to think it's this when it's really that.

Hops:  It's comforting to picture you safe and content in your little neighborhood.... crossing the street when you see joggers and bikers coming at you.  Keeping your safe distance in the yard with guests.  I can't wait to read about veggies served to guests from the garden.

CB:

I'm going to spend some time on the links you provided, then put this down for a while. Thanks for all the good information.  It helps to do all I can, then go back to what I was doing before.

Lighter

[Hopalong]

On the insanity side, this felt so true I didn't know whether to cry or laugh:

Shops: No Shoes, No Shirt, No Service
People: OK! No Problem.

Traffic Laws: Wear a seat belt in your car or get a ticket.
People: OK!  No Problem.

OSHA:  While working in certain places, you must wear safety goggles and safety gear.
People: OK! No Problem.

Airlines:  You must be seated and wear a seatbelt, with your tray table up when taking off.
People: OK! No Problem.

TSA:  Before getting on this plane, you need to remove your shoes, your belt, anything from your pockets, and go through this X-Ray machine.
People: OK! No Problem.

Local Government:  You need a permit to open carry a weapon.
People: OK! No Problem.

Grocery Stores and Other Businesses:  Please wear a mask while you are shopping to help reduce the risk of infecting others with a potentially deadly virus.
G☭P:  HOW DARE YOU TAKE AWAY MY PERSONAL LIBERTIES AND RIGHTS

[lighter]

They are interesting, CB.  Thank you so much!

OK.... I watched some Laura Ingram on Fox this evening.

She was very upset about the "left's" desire for her to wear a mask until the end of time. 

The end of time.  Hype much?

We're in the first chapter of a pandemic.   The US is sucking wind, not doing well globally with it and we're being asked BY OUR PRESIDENT to wear masks to protect others right NOW.  Maybe we can gain some protection ourselves as well.  All the better.  My mask has a splash guard that isn't particularly clear at this point, but it makes me FEEl safer. 

I don't get the crazy jump she's making to "the end of time."  It's inflammatory and untrue, assuming we have a vaccine at some point, and I believe we will. 

Assuming we have herd immunity at some point, and I believe we will.

It'll be interesting to see how Sweden comes out of this in a year, vs those Countries who shut down and closed up.

Lighter

[Meh]

We are wearing masks because we care about the people around us. And it's no greater burden than all these other reasons.

CB

Yep no big deal. Easier than donating blood or money.

[Twoapenny]

Hops, the research I have read is that it is all about how much exposure you have. That's why its usually fine to be 6 feet apart with no mask, but not always. It's also why the cloth mask is probably doing pretty good to protect you too.

There are a lot of patterns for masks made with t shirts and those arent so good since knit material is very porous (that's why it's so comfortable!!) I wish people would get a little more direction about that.

The key seems to be multiple layer of cloth and well fitted. Lots of gaps around your nose for example is not going to be as comprehensive of coverage. I have a couple with ties, and the ones with elastic over the ears are definitely a better fit.

I've also looked at the research about whether it lets virus particles in--apparently when masks were tested after outside exposure, the outer layer, and first inner layer had virus particles, but the inside layer did not. So likely there is some protection for the wearer even from outside particles. Likewise, the infected person wearing a mask had particle penetration through the layers of mask, but not the outside. Plus six feet distancing and you are probably getting very little exposure.

You can also add a filter layer between the 2 layers in the form of even a coffee filter or paper towel, which will of course, need to be removed and replaced after each outing. I also read that some patterns are using a layer of chiffon which I thought was an elegant touch! Some are using wire or pipe cleaners across the bridge of the nose on the mask to make it more custom fitted.

From what my nurse kids tell me, the N95 is a little trickier for the average person to use. That's hospital grade and may be a little harder to breathe in, especially during exercise.

Anyway, I'm like you--staying in for the most part. My patio guests have been my kids who live in town but only from time to time, but the one who works in ICU isnt coming anywhere near me, so I havent seen the grandkids for a long time.

CB

CB, that is all pretty much what I've been told as well.  I've a couple of friends here who are paramedics and they've both said that you need hospital grade equipment for proper protection, which even medical staff here can't get, plus, as you say, it's cumbersome and just isn't something you can run around town doing your shopping in.  Their advice is stay home as much as possible, wash yourself and everything else frequently, keep your distance from people whenever you can and use a mask in an enclosed space.  I think even just covering your mouth with a scarf is supposed to reduce the transmission risk by up to 30%.  But staying in reduces it the most.  We are staying in.  Lol xx

[sKePTiKal]

I believe the army did some tests on mask materials and found microfiber - the heavier kind, like cleaning cloths - was the most effective outer layer for stopping droplets. It makes sense, to me, because each fiber on those cloths is super-absorbent and even grabs dust particles thoroughly.

I can't imagine how hot that mask would end up being though. I can barely make my quick run through the grocery with my multiple layer cotton mask as it is without the claustrophobia setting in - increasing my discomfort.

[Hopalong]

Just watched a clarifying explanation from Dr. Michael Osterholm (head of infectious disease, U. of Minn.). Basic masks somewhat reduce risk of transmission (either way) but are NEGLIGIBLE in their protection when compared to distancing. He says people are fastening onto the idea that because masks are tangible, we're safe if we wear one. BUT: Six feet isn't enough, and distancing is the Number One Measure to reduce risk. He didn't specify how much is safe, but I'm going 8' even outdoors. He said outdoors, because movement of air clears virus particles faster, is the safest place anyone can be (as long as you're DISTANT from others).

(IOW, not being in proximity to other people is IT.) He says we don't know because this is a strange new virus, whether:

1) It will come in one wave that's still happening all over, in different strengths in different areas of the globe, and eventually go away.
2) It will remain simmering in our species until we eventually have either: 1) immunity in 60%-70% of the population, OR 2) an effective vaccine created (hopefully 18 months but that's unknown) and distributed (???)
3) It will appear gone for several months (say, most of the summer) and people will tell themselves, YAY! Back to "normal!" and then if it behaves like flu (which is unknown but feared by scientists) then a second wave, as happened in 1918, will arrive with a vengeance more deadly than the first wave.

He says we DON'T KNOW which will happen and we need to accept not knowing. Science doesn't know and your cousin can't guess and political tilts have nothing to do with anything. It is deadly. It is unknown. It is new. Science is after it. There IS hope but no room for stupidity.

Yes, wear a mask but remember they leak around the edges. He said if there are two in a room, even six feet apart, and one is infected, s/he will AEROSOLIZE virus particles just by breathing that can infect you in two minutes. Mask and all. If both of us are wearing masks, we've got maybe four minutes. Better yet: face facts and stay home and stop all non-essential excursions.

He wasn't addressing the economy or answers to that, which governments have to address. He wasn't being asked to because he's just explaining the biology of it.

This helped me. I feel clearer about it. Don't relax with a mask on, be MORE vigilant about who passes me on the street (I'm thinking of a sign I tape onto the back of my shirt saying DISTANCE PLEASE. Not kidding.) And tap into inner resources and stay home indefinitely. M and I are on the same page and I can at least go there, and the few individuals who come to my back yard are ready to do distancing and disinfection, and nobody is in my house except occasionally M.

Not fun to read but I was grateful for his detail.

hugs
hops

[Hopalong]

(If anybody has HULU, he was on The View two days ago.)
Thanks, CB.

hugs
Hops

[lighter]

Tupp:

I'm glad the news you might be sheltering in place for a year didn't upset ds.

You're right.  Regular medical procedures have been cut back or stopped in order to cope with COVID 19 patients.   A second wave, with regular patients in the middle of it, would be terrible.   This isn't a good scenario in any case.

On a brighter note..... and bc I'm babbling with anxiety.....The family, staying at my dad's farm, continue to receive free cancer treatment for their son in Atlanta every Friday.  There were no cancellations for his treatment.    Across the street from that hospital is the hospital I had both girls at.  I just looked up their website and see the hospital is up and running, pretty standard.... women's center still taking expectant and delivering mothers and treating the infants.  Only 1 visitor allowed to see the new babies for one hour a day in NICU.  That goes to 4 hours when they're training the visitor to care for the infant.  The mothers can have only one visitor... the same visitor, through their stay, unless they're under 18yo.  Then they can have 2.

Any suspected COVID 19 patients or confirmed cases have suspended visitation.  In Mid March the patients had the choice to have a visitor IN their hospital room, on lockdown, with them.  I guess that's not the case now.   

The In Patient, OUt patient and infusion centers are suspending visitations.  No one is allowed to just show up at the emergency room... they have to call their doctor or the hotline number.   There are 5 hospitals in that group... all over the Country.
 
The rule for visiting COVID patients or suspected COVID patients is a big NOPE.  No visitors whatsoever. 

We're experiencing COVID in retirement homes in my County recently... 2 facilities the last time I checked... one is a few minutes from where I live.  The healthcare workers tested positive and gave it to the residents.... it's assumed .

Our County has 260 confirmed COVID cases.  170 recovered.  4 deaths.  The Latino community is experiencing 5 times higher numbers.   

2 days ago we had "a small number" of workers at the main hospital test positive for COVID 19.  The numbers are spiking back up and I don't see things getting better for a while. 

I could wish things were different.  That everyone would wear safety gear and look after each other.  Laura Ingram was upset about the patient tracing too.  WTH?  How will we ever get a handle on this if people are against tracing those who have the virus and those who've been exposed? 

I'm frustrated with the response here too, Tupp. 

Lighter