Voicelessness and Emotional Survival > Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Friendship Moments: good or bad
Twoapenny:
(((((((((((Hopsie)))))))))))) I nodded all the way through and I do get it, especially the loneliness thing. And I do think one of the hardest things about being in relationships with the sort of people who have this level of neediness is knowing that boundaries and refusals can spark rejection. And we all know how painful that can be, particularly when we're in situations that mean any kind of loss is keenly felt. But equally I feel being around people that don't see us is a kind of loneliness. You're very understanding of her problems and her point of view and yes, we can all take a moment out to see how other people's behaviour might shine a light on our own in some way. But what about you in all of this? You just lost Pooch. Pup sounds gorgeous but he must be exhausting - in a good way, but exhausting none the less. Your D reappeared not so long ago, that must have raised a tsunami of emotions, all of which you've probably dealt with alone. You've had your various health problems in recent years, all of which continue to need managing and watching over, you don't have family/partner/endless amounts of money to make your current life easier, you've got your own issues with regard to past abuse, difficult relationships and the general unfairness of life. You're not in an easy situation yourself and you haven't had an easy life. I think it's quite miraculous that you needed a nap rather than a vat of gin. Many people would have opted for the latter.
You don't have to eat all the chocolates in the box, you can just take out the ones you like. I don't think it's worth trying to 'deal' with this situation because it's just not how she does life. I think you can be responsive when she wants to talk about poetry, or good films or anything else that's good for you and ignore the next 'woe is me' email about the husband, or the next demand for your time or your energy that doesn't line up with what you want or need. Enjoy the aspects of the friendship that are nice and avoid situations where the other stuff takes precedence. She knew your sleep schedule beforehand, if it's problematic for her she should have come up with a way of dealing with it in advance. She wasn't concerned for you at all, a concerned person would sit down with you in a calm moment to talk about their worries for your situation and ask if there's anything they could do that might help you change things or get some outside support, not berate you for having normal bodily functions, compel you to ignore your own needs and then ignore you for doing so. That's horribly abusive behaviour. Don't let your compassion for other people's situations leave you without compassion for yourself, Hopsie xx
lighter:
((Hops)) the whole way through your description I was thinking.....
1.Hops is buying into the Poet's criticisms and ....
2. The Poet has no ability to follow through with the strategies to keep herself occupied on her own. She was doing her best, but her needs unhinged her reason.
The fellowship is the round/soft/comforting side of this relationship.
The sharp/cutting/hurtful side is about the wounded and protective parts....of you and Poet.
Poet seems to have fleas.....I think, from her relationshit with her abusive h...I think. Or maybe this is all about her AND you placating difficult parents/people from your childhoods? Familiar and practiced pathways.
Maybe she can't see it? Nose on her pebbles, and all that.
You can see it. You can sense the edge of your boundaries, discuss them, attempt remedies proactively. See it coming. Watch Poet crumble as her wounded parts lose sight and ability to correct her boat.
I think that's similar to what happens in relationships with her h.....she goes into survival mode and behaves irrationally. Buys into his criticisms. Makes bargains with herself to avoid the darkness of feeling abandoned and alone.....even though she has friends and she has you, as her vessel to place and hold darkest truth.....the verbal/emotional abuse and her inability to choose self care and boundaries over verbal/emotional abuse cycle that's her "normal." Familiar to you both. Perhaps she sees this as a bargain between you. Unspoken, but binding?
Terrible thing, but familiar and perhaps it's still in her uncomfortable comfort zone.....but way outside yours, imo.
I think both of you put up with hurtful parents and weren't allowed boundaries. Both deal with boundary transgressions as crisis, shifting into survival mode, bc of unfortunate buy into the criticisms, used against you like a surgeon's knife.
If there's no buy in.... the energy/reactivity dissipates and it's easier to see what's really there, IME.
You see more than Poet sees, but it's still her stuff rubbing against your stuff.....raw and reactive. You can get your nose off the pebbles to see what's there. You can.
Reviewing boundaries/enforcement of same coupled with clarity around your entitlement will go a long way to define how to handle your relationship going forward with Poet, IME.
You're mixing up caretaking her feelings and the word enmeshed pops up. It's not your job to caretake her, her feelings, her darkness to preserve connection.
I wonder if there's some stuck unconscious belief for you...... that's your job....you felt worthy of love IF you kept your end of that horrible bargain in your FOO. Caretake others at your expense. That's love.
Poet, when not in survival mode, wouldn't want you to do that.... wouldn't want you to give up your boundaries and surrender them unto her to preserve her comfort.....I think.
Funny how the world shakes down into those comfortable with boundaries and those not comfortable, IME. Poet isn't allowed boundaries with her h. She trounces yours, just the same.
It doesn't have to be profoundly sad and unchanging.
I wonder what would have happened had you spoken to her as you would speak to a child....with compassionate authority. No shaming. I'd like to think both your inner children would be comforted and calmed, a bit.
Our boundaries keep us safe. It's the best intentions, those outside our lane, confusing and complicating things, IME. Sometimes we don't need to understand the why of these things, IME.
We take care of what's ours and give others the opportunity to respond/react/tantrum and correct or not correct, but we can't control them or the relationship through sacrifice of self care and boundaries. That's just repeating old uncomfortable and destructive patterns that never worked, IME.
Time for something new and hopeful.
Modeling healthy boundaries for Poet gives her framework for her relationshit with h, imo.
Sure, it'll be uncomfortable. It won't be easy to state with compassion, bc of your stuff rubbing against her stuff, but maybe writing it out will help.
If you draw up, far enough, and see the situation with emotional distance it's not so scary, IME. Nose off pebble isn't an easy maneuver under fire. You've been under fire, Hops.
Some distance will help and judgement around this should be suspended, IME. This can be catalyst for clarity and change.
If you view it as bad/threat/proof you're X...
it's not helpful, IME.
Just see what's really there and try not to judge it, ((Hops.))
Stand in your boundaries and trust you're worthy of them.
Lighter
sKePTiKal:
Oh Hops. I get it.
It sounds very much like what Hol does to me, especially the "you're not normal". But, being who I am and having lived through what I have, my bent (after registering the hurt, then anger) is to inform her directly that I have designed my current existence to suit myself - it doesn't have to please or satisfy ANYONE else. And while I accept HER perception that I'm "losing it" by not being like her, running 90 miles an hour all the time with peak overthinking an analyzing, I don't believe it's accurate about me.
Take it or leave it, I'm who I want to be, living as I like, and I can rise to occasions or not - as I choose. Tough titties, if she doesn't like it (as we used to say). I get exhausted by too much "other people's stuff" which is why I socialize only occasionally. I don't NEED a growth mindset at my age, I don't need to "become a better person"... I function rather well given all my different hats and incorrigible tendency to bite off more than I can chew sometimes.
I'm not prone to those kinds of criticisms; I push back. Non-conformist to my marrow. No one puts baby in a corner. That probably makes me an insufferable asshole sometimes... but in my perception, that's what I think of Hol's "perceptions" of me, too. I don't think it's normal to have social time spent with one-sided "criticism" and "you should's" either, especially when I didn't complain about a single thing. Just needed some pleasant downtime and cameraderie.
I will never understand this idea that there is "perfect pattern" of being that we all must toil to achieve. I'm OK with not understanding it. I'll be me, make my mistakes, apologize, and go on my merry way knowing "you can please some of the people, some of the time but you can't please ALL the people ALL of the time".
Hopalong:
Aaaaand, I talked with her about it the next day and explained everything about what was triggering for me about her lecture/rant about "normal"...and she listened respectfully. She also talked more openly than she ever has before about how she gets triggered by massive feelings of abandonment, in situations that aren't about that at all.
It was a very good, respectful and loving conversation. And I just dropped her at the airport and am ready to be blissfully alone again!
As long as there's both learning and love, I can deal better with such dramas. And hopefully wind them down before they build up. It's hard to be psychologically nimble in the middle of a triggering conflict, but even if it's only in the aftermath that I fully figure out my part, it's worth trying for a valuable friend. She appeared just as eager to be cooperative and appreciative today, and I was grateful. We parted comfortably.
(You couldn't pay me to be her housemate, however.)
hugs
Hops
Hopalong:
Aww, for some reason y'all's replies loaded for me after I posted my last.
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU.
I'm walking on a lovely sun-dappled path in a forest of sisterhood.
You each deserve a point-by-point appreciation which I can't do as I've got a poetry thing coming up, but YOU GET IT. You all get me, you get her, and you get it.
That is worth more than I can express in the moment.
huge grateful hugs,
Hops
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