Friendship Moments: good or bad

[sKePTiKal]

I think we're all trying to learn how to see these people sooner, Hops. It's kinda programmed into us to give the benefit of the doubt and second chances. But that conditioning didn't include the criteria for giving that to people while getting little to nothing in return.

[Hopalong]

Exactly, Amber. You are so sane, and that inspires me.

I think some of it is that I have been a broken person (it's a FT project and I accept that) who is/was drawn to other broken people. Sometimes, I think broken or formerly-broken people can and do heal each other in ways. Hell, we all try to do that here.

But there needs to be steady respect for another's broken bits. They can be jagged.

Lately, I withdraw faster when I feel octopus tentacles coming my way. That's with new people, mainly. With long-established relationships, the attachment is stronger.

But, this bout with Poet taught me I have better boundaries than I used to. I just will not be the target of nasty temper outbursts, and if anyone's going to take my gentleness as weakness, well I'm stronger than I knew.

Thanks in very large part to y'all here. My gratitude is boundless, truly.

hugs
Hops

[sKePTiKal]

Complete this sentence: even broken people........


- can fix themselves (mostly)
- still have broken bits that surface under stress or emotional pain
- are doing the best they can, within their capabilities (which vary a LOT)


Your turn!  <grin>

[Hopalong]

- can become Kintsugi

Love your list, Amber!

I feel clear that the friendship crisis is past, now. But still feeling the aftermath, mostly some increased anxiety in general. And just the effects of shock. I realized that I didn't know a toxic part of her, and her explosion shook me to the core. If a "best friend" can do that, or felt entitled to in order to relieve her own discomfort, who is safe?

hugs
Hops

[lighter]

How're you feeling today, Hops?

Lighter

[Hopalong]

Thanks, Lighter, sorry for the delay.

I feel much better, not anxious about it any more, just letting a new reality settle in.
I'm just stunned at how ready (eager?) I was to believe this was genuine loving friendship. And, in ways, it has been. Her simmering rage was out of my sight, imo.

I just don't know where that decision comes, that accepting or not pushing back against abuse is a good thing. This is what she's done to herself, and I can now see that the justified rage anyone could feel about having been abused as a child, beaten by a husband, date-raped, etc etc -- could erupt in moments of shame-trigger or fatigue. That's what I think has happened to Poet. I don't judge or blame her for being too afraid to examine/heal it, though I profoundly wish she'd try.

I feel I understand it. The reality that remains for me is that unguarded, wide-open trust is no longer appropriate in this relationship. So sadly, that's changed forever. But I can accept it and still love her, and communicate with more formal (as Amber mentioned) and also lighter exchanges. It'll be good to have a year off from visits now. Or two.

I think the being-alone crucible she's going through right now could be transformative if she lets it. I wish she could find some peace. She reports nonstop plans to see people so she isn't fully alone. I get that too though I can't do it myself.

But to your question: I feel okay. Rebalanced. Thanks much for ALL the support and insight.

hugs
Hops

[lighter]

It makes me sad.....
to notice things board members have accepted, as love, or parts of love, wrestling with it, like some live thing, when really..... it's just malformed......beliefs.....about love/earning love,  and worthiness.  Esp when it involves parents.

I guess the, often very toxic people, board members struggle with, are in the middle of their own struggles, involving childhood trauma.

Some people do more, or less, harm in the world.  Some people (perpetrate?) more or less kindness/help in the world, but it comes down to neeeeeed, doesn't it?  Needing things to be different.......
Choosing people, broken in familiar ways, so one can change past outcomes, in the present.  That's what happens, right?

Poet's abusive husband reminds her of a childhood trauma, she's trying to change, in the present....right?  Your relationship, with Poet, is/was about trying to change/heal relationships/trauma in your past....right?

That's pretty complicated, if one needs to go back, find the origin trauma, and heal it, rather than refile one person, and decide they'll simply install boundaries, practice and enforce them.  Difficult to do, and not repeat..... if the struggle is about past yearning to fix old trauma overlayed onto present relationships......right?

It was niggling thing, for me, to notice what past small transgressions, I had allowed years and years ago....bc they lead to larger transgressions.

 Some I let slide, some I didn't, but my blindness......my ability to ignore, shut out, explain away..... honestly not feel bothered by, in some astonishing cases....or......
accept, in other astonishing cases.....
that was all mine to discern and own.



Once we know better, we can do better.

There's 5 trucks, including 2 dump trucks, and various equipment he hauling flatbeds, on my street....I think working at the cowboy's house. 
::calculating cash on hand::.
Maybe I can get some stuff done too!

I'm glad you're feeling less anxious,((Hops.)) Will likely come and go, ebb and flow, until something clicks.....heals that needful part, IME.  Then, will feel like an old key,burning in an ancient lock.  Calm and done ness.....zero desire to think about it for another minute, I think.

Lighter

[Hopalong]

I think the reason I for now choose to "still love her" (unless she acts out unsafely again) and to try to "understand" her aren't really self-abnegation, but the core remnants of my religious upbringing. I'm not abandoning myself for codependency, though I'll observe and resist it in ways that make sense to me.

I didn't throw the baby out with the bathwater when I let go of a traditional faith, but kept the single core idea, which is enough for me. Super simple. Golden Rule. For me, after years of confusion and angst, I worked out that faith simply means "experience trust." Not foolish naive blind stupid trust, but a general trust in possibility. Not expecting it, but always allowing for it. I'm home in agnosticism, which is for me optimistic. Not worried about it; it's probably just Universe.

hugs
Hops

PS I learned a lot from all this. Not obsessing, not even regretting. Well, we all regret pain. But this was an obvious and helpful lesson. What stays with me is the fact that I stood up, pushed back and refused ill treatment. With clarity in the moment, not just afterward. All those things are good for me, not wasted.

[lighter]

Wouldn't it be amazing to feel zero emotional dump when, those we love, lash out, attack and struggle?

I'm picturing calm and wise Bran Stark's character, from Game of Thrones.

Lighter

[Hopalong]

Probably not realistic for me to expect to have zero dump when someone I'm close to lashes out. That'd be a robot. But I am learning to process more quickly and be on my own side.

I've been feeling some sad-spurts at her silence but also, que sera, sera. I understand she can't/won't deal with it by connecting sincerely, so I'd rather be at peace without the playacting. In her few recent emails she keeps instructing me: "keep caring about me" but also drops the thread of reciprocity and I believe, doesn't think that perhaps I need support and caring too.

It'll be weird to see her at the poetry workshop next week.

All in all, though, all is well.

hugs
Hops

[lighter]

I don't know, Hops.

One wouldn't have to be a robot, necessarily, while sitting in emotional awareness, sans reactivity.

It might just be observation, sans fear, guilt,  or shame.....I think.

Not sure, but, for me, dependence on a relationship seems to be a jumping off point for fear, IME.  Once I shift out of need, into wanting...... everything flips.

Same with needing to be seen a certain way, or not needing.

I understand everyone has important things, about who they are in the world......
if I neeeeeed others to see me that way
vs
understand they're free to hold whatever opinions they like...... I'm still me.  I'll be ok, no matter what they think AND if they're insisting something contrary, to my truth, is real........
there's a motive.  Something about me and my stuff is rubbing up against their stuff, and I don't have to fix it, change it or otherwise alter their belief.

Lately, when I drop the rope, they do a huge change and drop into normal behavior patterns.

Maybe, I'm saying you don't have to be anything, with the Poet, but authentically yourself. 

It's the neeeeding Poet to SEE your truth..... that's creating upset....maybe?

I dropped the rope, with my Army Ranger friend today.  I've done it several times in the last month.  I remain u bothered, and he figures stuff out, or not.  I'm always shocked when he figures stuff out, but the more I drop the rope, the more he comes'round to rational conclusions BUT only when I can release expectations.....so it seems.

You can extend compassion to your Poet friend.
She can remain your friend.
What she may not be able to do is extend reciprocity and the kind of vulnerability required for big growth.

If you accept her, as she is, then she's just a friend with limits and flaws your mindfully willing/unwilling to spend time with.

It's unrealistic expectations giving us the vapors, IME.  Rarely is it someone's repeated bad treatment of us.

What we allow, and don't allow, is up to us.  Not them, IME.

Telling the Poet you require some reciprocity.....is an option.  Requesting and requiring a bare minimum of decent behavior is an option.
Enforcing boundaries, you've set, with immediate delivery of stated consequences is an option.

 Allowing her to remain willfully ignorant, while ignoring your stated needs, is an option.

I wonder, if she'd feel ok, with your being treated, like she treats you, by someone else?

I bet she'd say you deserve better......UF she's not mired in shame and defense mechanisms.

The question is.....
do you need her to be anything, other than what she is, now?

I'm trying to internalize this, Hops......not telling you what to do, or believe.  Just sharing my lessons.

Lighter

[Hopalong]

VERY wise lessons, Lighter.
Thank you.

You're right. Pining for reciprocal care and interest may not be rational. I'm letttttingggg go of fantasy. Dropping the rope.

I'll ponder stating some needs. Maybe. If she shows openness, wants to Zoom again, then I'd see an opportunity to state what I need/prefer (big diff) in a healing friendship. If she avoids....I'll let her do so. She's in charge of what she CAN do, and vice versa.

That helped. All of it.

thanks again,
Hops