Author Topic: I have access to my N's personal email  (Read 27510 times)

Portia

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I have access to my N's personal email
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2005, 06:46:18 AM »
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this unbelievable opportunity to learn all these things about the man you were madly in love with who dumped you so brutally

To learn! Yes, big learning opportunity. Learning is good.

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I even talked to his ex wife
very healthy I think, gathering more opinions, facts.

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I just wish I could find a relationship that feels as wonderful as that one did, AND be real. Is that too much to ask?

Depends what you mean by ‘real’! If you want to feel high sexual attraction, being worshipped etc then there’s going to be a downside when the initial highs wear off. Big highs can’t be sustained, there have to be lows. Depends if you want highs and pain and hurt – or sharing, intimacy, becoming  a partnership rather than two people playing out their childhood stuff with each other. That sounds very blunt. But I think I mean it…

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You really think I should be worried about violating him???
Have you violated him as such? Sorry if I missed something. It sounds to me like you’re only reading his email and that doesn’t exactly hurt him does it?

About the ethical part, I can see that when we do something secretively (read his email) it might be hurting us. But we make that choice. Kind of “this feels wrong but I’m going to do it anyway and take full responsibility for my choice. I might learn things that will hurt me terribly. I might feel voyeuristic. But I want to know the facts as far as I can and this is how to do it. So I choose.” If I have this access and choose not to read his stuff, what does that do to my ethics? I feel very honest, righteous, self-controlled, virtuous and am none the wiser about what’s really going on. That would make me feel ill (with a very high curiosity level, it would probably give me headaches just trying not to think about it).

Speaking of curious, can I ask what type of job you have? Just being nosy. I think therapists are people too, fallible human beings. If they aren’t then I don’t want to meet them, they’ll be the holier than thou variety who think they know what’s best for everyone. Dangerous!

Only one proviso: I think it’s okay to read his email so long as you don’t act against him for your own ends on anything you read. That’s crossing the line to me, that would hurt me and my conscience.

bludie

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I have access to my N's personal email
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2005, 08:48:09 AM »
Confused2,

Keep posting as I believe you'll get some very honest and practical feedback from this site. Although from a therapist's standpoint you probably know the ins-and-outs of what has cognitively happened to your ex-N, this knowledge IMO will not take care of the pain inside of you. It's always a long journey - transferring intellectual knowledge to one's heart -- at least that's been my layperson's experience.

Deciding to/not to read his e-mails based on something he does/doesn't do is still allowing him to have control over your life. I guess, like the rest of us, when you're good and ready to stop this will be a pinnacle on your journey toward healing.

It sounds like you're definitely getting on with life:
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In the meantime, I am moving forward in my life. I am not sitting around at home crying in my soymilk. After he left me, I completely remodeled my kitchen, took a dream trip to Hawaii, and have gone out with at least 12 new men (sadly, I am not emotionally ready to get involved it seems...) I know the instant I meet someone who truly interests me, I will not give my ex-N another thought.
But I wonder if this isn't a matter of changing your outsides to fix your insides. Know what I mean? My reaction to past breakups (even my divorce) was to spring into action and head for the change bucket -- change my hairstyle; take a trip; lose weight; buy something new; date someone new; take up a new sport or hobby. Previous reactions to past breakups included frenetic activity of some sort to escape the pain.

For some reason (I'm pretty certain it had to do with a Mindful Meditation class I took during the breakup http://www.umassmed.edu/cfm/history.cfm)I didn't engage in the same coping mechanisms of my past. Instead, I got 'present' with the pain. By just observing where I was at, and not trying to fix/change it, the pain itself -- I believe -- is being transformed to awareness. This is probably awareness I've needed for two decades (to avoid some of the pitfalls in my relationships) but it took what it took. I had to put my head through enough brick walls before deciding it hurt enough to stop.

This has just been my journey. I think everyone's is a little different. Most of us, however, have probably at one time or another recoiled from emotional pain at blinding speed in a knee-jerk fashion wanting a rational and reasonable explanation for our pain but often finding none until we move within ourselves. Therein, I believe, the answers can be found. In the meantime, revelational e-mails, intellectualizing, remodeled kitchens or exotic vacations can often just be substitures or diversions.
Best,

bludie

Anonymous

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I have access to my N's personal email
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2005, 10:23:53 AM »
Quote from: Anonymous
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It’s too late now.


It wasn't too late to tell someone that spoilers are often used out of consideration. She may not know about this.


bunny

Anonymous

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I have access to my N's personal email
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2005, 11:01:26 AM »
Spoilers I havent seen this mentioned anywhere before. Is it some kind of Message Board rule?

Anonymous

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I have access to my N's personal email
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2005, 11:49:29 AM »
Spoilers aren't a rule. It's an "etiquette" that has been used on newsgroups for many years. When someone writes something that is graphic, disturbing, sexual, etc., they often put a warning at the top of the post.

bunny

Confused2

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« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2005, 12:42:48 PM »
Hi everyone,

Thank you so much for all the feedback. It is really helping me to process. Here are my replies to various people:

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Again, I don't understand why it's up to him. He is a very sick individual.
Why would you need an apology and honesty from a person whose psyche has
severe distortions, who can't function normally, and who is seriously
emotionally disturbed? You dodged a bullet! Isn't it possible that he broke
off the engagement to protect you? Maybe he cares about you in his own
twisted way. The only way he could deal with reality was to mess up the
whole thing.


Yes, I dodged a bullet. It is an interesting take on it, that he broke it off with me because he cares about me in his own twisted way. I seriously doubt it though. He is a textbook Narcissist. He is amoral. He thinks only about himself.

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I know I'm chipping in a bit late here, but thought I'd let you know
Confused 2 that I agree that finding out these details 'behind his back' as
it were is invaluable in dealing with a breakup with an N.


Thank you for affirming that knowledge is good. It HAS been good for me. As I said earlier, if I didn't have the knowledge I have through seeing what he has said about me, his last letter to me would have completely stirred things up for me again. Instead, I was able to see right through it to his real intentions, which were to save face. Again, a classic Narcissistic quality.

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you could spend some considerable time waiting for the Œsorry¹
that never comes but I don¹t think this is the point. Your pride/self-worth
has been hurt and you want to regain power for yourself, either by his
downfall or by an apology - revenge in other words? It sounds like this will
fade with time though.


I am not really waiting for an apology. That would be a miracle. But, the more I see his life play out, the more I confirm my diagnosis of his NPD. I can't wait to see how he devalues his current source of N-supply. I am sure it will happen. She is a platonic friend of his who is cheering him on to launch his transgendered porn star career. He is feeding off of her affirmation. But I am sure that will end when he realizes his current fantasy is not possible. (He looks gawd-awful in his dresses and make-up and he's 50 years old for crying out loud....)

As for revenge, I have already decided NOT to use what I've learned in his emails to get revenge. I just want to see his undoing. There is a Chinese proverb that goes something like this: "If you sit by the side of the river long enough, eventually you will see the body of your enemy float by." I am going to sit at side of this river for a while longer.


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Reading his email seems to be one way of repeatedly re-confirming the facts to yourself so that you can in time detach and reach the stage where you are no longer interested enough to read his email. You just won¹t care what he does and you will have moved on.


YES! That's exactly what I am doing by reading his email. Thank you!!! I am repeated reconfirming the facts because my emotional involvement in this relationship was complete. I gave him everyting I had emotionally. It appeared he was doing the same with me. And then whoosh! He was gone in a cloud of dust and I was a hit and run victim.

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If you want to feel high sexual attraction,
being worshipped etc then there¹s going to be a downside when the initial
highs wear off. Big highs can¹t be sustained, there have to be lows. Depends if you want highs and pain and hurt ­ or sharing, intimacy, becoming a partnership rather than two people playing out their childhood stuff with each other. That sounds very blunt. But I think I mean it


I like exciting, passionate relationships and it's a bit disappointing to think that the passionate ones are all doomed. One good thing that has come from this is that I no longer have any ground rules to go by. I thought this was it. I thought this was exactly how romance is supposed to happen. And look how it turned out. So, now, I am a blank slate with no guidelines and that is probably a good thing in a Zen sort of way.

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You really think I should be worried about violating him???Have you violated him as such? Sorry if I missed something. It sounds to me like you¹re only reading his email and that doesn¹t exactly hurt him does it?


Thank you. I have not done ANYTHING other than to read his email. And I have an arsenal to use against him if I chose to. But I have chosen NOT to. It's all for my healing and the only revenge I am getting is that I know how APPALLED he would be if he knew that I, of all people, had all of this damning information about him. It's a silent "f__k you" to him.

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About the ethical part, I can see that when we do something secretively
(read his email) it might be hurting us. But we make that choice. Kind of
³this feels wrong but I¹m going to do it anyway and take full responsibility
for my choice. I might learn things that will hurt me terribly. I might feel
voyeuristic. But I want to know the facts as far as I can and this is how to
do it. So I choose.² If I have this access and choose not to read his stuff,
what does that do to my ethics? I feel very honest, righteous,
self-controlled, virtuous and am none the wiser about what¹s really going
on. That would make me feel ill (with a very high curiosity level, it would
probably give me headaches just trying not to think about it).


Thank you! A good take on it. I think that what I am doing is completely healthy, at least in the short term.

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Speaking of curious, can I ask what type of job you have?


I am not a psychotherapist. I said I was a mental health professional because I have a degree that would allow me to practice psychotherapy. But I am actually in the field of higher education.

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I think it¹s okay to read his email so long as you don¹t
act against him for your own ends on anything you read. That¹s crossing the line to me, that would hurt me and my conscience.


Yes, I've already stated several times that I am simply reading it for my own healing and affirmation and not to destroy his life. He is doing a good job destroying it himself.

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For some reason (I'm pretty certain it had to do with a Mindful Meditation class I took during the breakup http://www.umassmed.edu/cfm/history.cfm)I didn't engage in the same coping mechanisms of my past. Instead, I got 'present' with the pain


In the wake of the break-up, I read practically every book that Cheri Huber wrote. She is a Zen teacher and her books are deceptively simple and full of truth. I am pretty sure I am taking a two-pronged approach: 1)insight meditation plus reading AND 2) getting back out in the world and doing things that bring me joy.

Thank you for all the wonderful feedback. Each time I talk about it, I take another step toward healing.

Confused2 (getting less confused all the time...)

Anonymous

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I have access to my N's personal email
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2005, 01:58:53 PM »
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Now, if he would only do two things, I would actually forgive him and stop reading his email out of ethical considerations: I want him to apologize for treating me the way he did AND I want him to be honest about why he left. A Narcissist will never apologize, so that's not gonna happen, and I don't think he is capable of honesty, even with himself, so that's not gonna happen either. But, if by some miracle it did, I would forgive him and NEVER look at his email again. That's when he would regain his human status in my eyes.


You are being contradictory. You initially say that you are only reading his mail for your own healing. In the quote above you imply that you are reading it out of *revenge* for which stopping is on the conditional basis that he would apologise or be honest about why he left. Please think about that.

Though I'd never *suggest* someone doing it, since you readily had access and have done it, I do actually agree that reading the mail for a very short period of time,like over one-two weeks, could help you to find out truths from these pathological liar deceiver types [never with "normal" breakups] and to help drill the reality in and stop the pinning and magical thinking that so many struggle with at the end of N relatonships. A lot of the struggle seems to be around unknowns and if the ugly truth is right there in black & white & undeniable then it can be a help in moving on I think.

**But condsider that you do have your answers now.** It sounds like you know the truth now, so isn't it time to stop reading & move on? Careful not to get caught up and stuck in another kind of energy with him via reading his mails. As you are doing this you are strongly keeping yourself connected with him emotionally when you say you want to let go.

Contrary to what you wrote-it does not seem like you have moved on when you are still reading his mail after having the answers to your questions and especially if you are "waiting" and hoping on the miracle of another interaction with him where he apologises and/or tells all about why he left.  From what you said ***you already know why***  now so you don't need to hear it from him. Remember that reading his mail was supposed to be about **you**.

Consider that the time has come to leave the mail and leave the idea of getting any kind of closure from him-behind you. Give the closure to yourself now by stepping out of his world and his daily goings on. Right now I would be concerned for you that you are stifling "moving on growth" you could have if you spent your emotional time & energy focusing on things in your life that have nothing to do with him. You even mention in your intial mail that you are still attached to him, so although reading his mail has helped you to see the truth, it has not really helped you to move on. It might really only be helping you to **stay stuck** at this point.  

It might seem easier to stay in this place of connection with him than face the pain the next phase of complete detachment and acceptance that you wont have closure from him.The pain of knowing that ZERO contact is best. But in my humble opinion it would be a large mistake on your part to continue this behavior, and would be best for you to start a **zero** contact and association policy immediately.

Anonymous

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I have access to my N's personal email
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2005, 02:44:15 PM »
A little clarification. In the above message I wrote:

In the quote above you imply that you are reading it out of *revenge* for which stopping is on the conditional basis that he would apologise or be honest about why he left. Please think about that.

I don't mean the kind of revenge that you have already made very clear that you are not into. The revenge of outing him.

If you read your words that I quoted in the above mail it is easy to see what I mean.  I'm talking about your revenge of invading his privacy and treating him as "non human" [your implication not mine]. In other words, you are saying that his behavior was/is worthy of your revenge in doing what you are to him, and that you would stop if he ever made amends to you.

Just to clarify because you have already made it very very clear that you will not use the info. you have against him. I wanted to emphasise that this was not the revenge I was talking about. But again, it should be clear if you read the text in quote in that mail.

Anonymous

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I have access to my N's personal email
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2005, 02:57:04 PM »
If I had fully moved on, I would not have posted to this board to begin with. So, no, I have not entirely moved on. But I am getting better. I really do wish I no longer cared to know what he is up to. And it would be magnanimous of me to forgive and wish him well in spite of what he put me through. I guess I am not that magnanimous or wise or evolved. Yes, the form of revenge I am taking feels good. Yes, I know that it is keeping me stuck on some level. No, I do not hope for any contact with him. No, I do not hope for an apology or closure. Yes, I want to see him suffer. No, I do not plan to be the cause of his suffering.

With each passing day and each new experience I create for myself, he fades a little bit. Zen would say that I'll stop reading his email when I stop reading it. I have a little stuffed dog he gave me and it's been in my bedroom all this time, but I am about to put it out of sight. This is a slow process for me, one I wish would be less slow. But I am doing the best that I can. Sorry if I'm too slow for you.

Anonymous

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I have access to my N's personal email
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2005, 04:04:05 PM »
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If I had fully moved on, I would not have posted to this board to begin with. So, no, I have not entirely moved on. But I am getting better. I really do wish I no longer cared to know what he is up to. And it would be magnanimous of me to forgive and wish him well in spite of what he put me through. I guess I am not that magnanimous or wise or evolved. Yes, the form of revenge I am taking feels good. Yes, I know that it is keeping me stuck on some level. No, I do not hope for any contact with him. No, I do not hope for an apology or closure. Yes, I want to see him suffer. No, I do not plan to be the cause of his suffering.


I'm getting in touch with a lot through this thread. It may have gotten a bit contentious but I also see some good from writing, reading and re-reading thoughts/ideas/convictions and coping strategies.

The quote above pretty well describes where I am at in my recovery (nearly 4 months since the breakup).  For nearly the first 2 months I was completely sad, devastated, bleak and depressed; feeling war-torn and tragic about life. Month 3 I got pretty darn angry about things. Thoughts continued through my mind such as "How dare he....  What a loser to have....  He's a nutbag... I dodged a bullet and good riddance...." and so forth.  The beginning of month 4 has been a mix -- anger, sadness, a desire for some ill fate to befall him, disbelief, curiosity -- the gamut.

However, I am also experiencing an itch; somewhat like the scab when it's ready to come clean. I long for facets of my old life -- a regular workout schedule, book clubs or get-togethers with girlfriends, yoga class, listening to jazz...whatever. I've been hiding out these past 4 months licking my wounds. But I am feeling the itch to stop playing it so safe and get out there and live a little again. This thread has helped me realize I need to seek a balance. It can't be too much one way or another.

Confused2, it sounds like you've done a lot of sifting, sorting, mulling ALONG WITH taking action. As stated in my earlier post, it's an individual journey in most respects.  I hope we continue to support and bolster each other amid the gentle (sometimes not so gentle?) prods we get from one another to break free, move on, face the demons and grow from it all.

Best,

bludie

Confused2

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reply to bludie
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2005, 07:07:18 PM »
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However, I am also experiencing an itch; somewhat like the scab when it's ready to come clean. I long for facets of my old life -- a regular workout schedule, book clubs or get-togethers with girlfriends, yoga class, listening to jazz...whatever. I've been hiding out these past 4 months licking my wounds. But I am feeling the itch to stop playing it so safe and get out there and live a little again. This thread has helped me realize I need to seek a balance. It can't be too much one way or another.


Bludie,

You sure do have a way with words. Have you considered being an author of self help books? I wish you lived nearby so that I could go have some tea with you. I live in California. Where are you? I went back and looked up all your posts and our experiences have been so similar. It IS affirming to know that my experience wasn't an isolated incident and that these N behaviors are well described in the literature and have been experienced by others.

I like what you said about having an itch to get out and enjoy life again. Whenever I have an experience that feeds me, I feel alive again and long for more. I know that I have the power to create my life. But, as far as seeking a new relationship goes, wow, am I ever feeling weary! On one hand, I so miss the feeling of being loved and loving someone. On the other, I feel tired just thinking about it. Sad to think he wasted not only the time I was actually with him, but also all this time it is taking to recover from the effects of his disordered personality. I guess no experience is really a waste of time as it is an opportunity to learn.

I am feeling quite restless in my career and have plans to see a career counselor. Funny, because when we were engaged, I felt perfectly happy in my job. But now, I am feeling bored and restless. In other words with marriage in the offing, that was going to be my source of adventure at least for a while, but without that, I need to create it somewhere else and my career is a natural place to examine.

An aside: in these posts, you can see who has counseling skills and who does not. Those without counseling skills jump right to advice-giving and problem solving. Those with counseling skills first acknowledge and affirm the feelings. You are in the second camp.

Confused2

Anonymous

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I have access to my N's personal email
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2005, 07:44:16 PM »
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It's a silent "f__k you" to him.

It's that silent knowledge that is so empowering.
That you know the truth; doesn't matter whether anybody else does.

Another thing that I was adamant about after my N breakup was that I heal at MY pace, nobody elses.

Best again,
Guest (who chipped in).

Confused2

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reply to Guest (who chipped in)
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2005, 09:54:00 PM »
Hi Guest (who chipped in),

I have truly appreciated your comments and affirmations. Thank you!

Confused2

Anonymous

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Re: reply to bludie
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2005, 10:58:51 PM »
Quote from: Confused2
An aside: in these posts, you can see who has counseling skills and who does not. Those without counseling skills jump right to advice-giving and problem solving. Those with counseling skills first acknowledge and affirm the feelings. You are in the second camp.


Was there some reason to put down some people in order to praise others...

reefcoral

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I have access to my N's personal email
« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2005, 11:30:41 PM »
I agree with the above statement.

Also, I wrote:
**But condsider that you do have your answers now.** It sounds like you know the truth now, so isn't it time to stop reading & move on? Careful not to get caught up and stuck in another kind of energy with him via reading his mails. As you are doing this you are strongly keeping yourself connected with him emotionally when you say you want to let go. ETC


I wrote the reply quoted above for reference, and Confused2 your reply was full of hostility.why would you say that you are sorry you are not healing fast enough for me? I'm baffled by wherever that came from. Heal at whatever bleeping speed you want in any way you want.

In a **supportive** way, I was only thinking that what could be best & most healing for **you** could be to begin zero contact immediately.

You asked for "any advice?" in your initial mail & now you seem unhappy because it isn't being delivered the way you want, which you say is being affirmed first.This is a *self* help type board & not a board of mental health professionals doing therapy.your comment was rude & uncalled for.

I wish you luck but am done replying to your dilemma {you won't exaclty be broken up over it I know ;)  Your unappreciative & hostile tone leaves much to be desired. And after all i have read i also believe that you made the right career choice in going with higher education & not therapy.