is it best to cut the ties completely with narc. parents?

[pinecone]

my narcissistic mother and the man who has enabled her through 60 years of marriage, my father, have, as far as I can tell, no positive meaning in my life whatsoever - mentally, emotionally, physically, spiritually, there is absolutely no connection - oh I do still feel the pain now and then, of course - the ONLY reason I stay in contact with them is, no kidding, the MONEY - the fact that if I cut off all contact, I would not put it past them to disinherit me - and well, the fact is, my family (husband and 2 kids) could really use it!  we are not unlike many families, two incomes and struggling to pay the mortgage and bills - wow!  I have felt vindicated by comments on this board in reply to my "wishing she were dead" - and now, my further confession, we need the money when they finally do kick the bucket - although, at 83 and 89, they seem to be healthy and in it for the long haul - has anybody had these same feelings?  pinecone

[Anonymous]

Hey, Pinecone-Lee - How y'all doin'? Why, ahm jes fahn an I hope y'all are too...(couldn't resist, Souhtern Sister).

No harm-no foul on the money part. I face some of the sme issues, but try hard to keep it at arms length. In my case, my mother tries to buy me off with houses and money and clothes and other miscellaneous crap. I just refuse a lot, despite struggling financially, because I feel I'm making a deal with the devil if I accept.

Perhaps if we were a bit more hungry than we are, I would bite. I have in the past, for sure, at least with smaller tokens. and I do accept her contributions where my daughter is concerned (occasional shopping trips, help wioth tuitions and things like that).

It's a bit sticky, that one - in one way, I think she's making up for/nodding in the direction of her past abuses. But for me, it's simply not good enough - I need the truth said out loud and verified. I think if I accept her overtures, I am silently agreeing to forget all about it - which I can't.

I don't, however, write her off altogether - for many reasons. One, I care about my father and brother, even though they participate in upholding the lie. I think they are protecting themselves, so I forgive them their weakness.

But I also know that the back-up resource is there, just in case.

That is a deal with a minor demon - my own potential for need and my fear of not being able to get it met elsewhere.

Only you can figure out what is the right course for you.

T

[pinecone]

hey there T!  well, I'll be, you do know my momma!  she wants me to read Gone With the Wind, so as to better understand her southern mind-set!  well guess what?  I am reading The Known World, the Pulitzer Prize-winning novel of 2004 by Edward P. Jones, instead - I have not told my mother that I just plain did not like Scarlett O'Hara in the movie, and all the mythology that surrounds the "Lost Cause" of "Old Dominion" - oh, I may read it someday - in the meantime, I did research and found a wonderful book published by the Virginia Historical Society, Old Virginia:  The Pursuit of a Pastoral Ideal, with a more balanced view, and am sending it to her - it is a beautiful book also - however, yes, I do maintain contact with my mother (my dad is kindof nutty) because we need the money!  at this point, it doesn't hurt me too much - I have continued to evolve and she is, contrary to her opinon, quite the example of devolution - thank you, T, for your recognition - my goodness, what a remarkable board this is - pinecone

[Anonymous]

Ah - a Virginia Belle, at that. I don't know if you caught my contribution in your "wishin' that woman would jes go own an' DAH!" thread - but seriously, if you want to laugh your heiney off while recognizing everyone you've ever met from the Rarified South - including Deah Momma, read the Florence King stuff:

Confessions of a Failed Southern Lady
Southern Ladies and Gentlemen

I SWEAH ohn a stack uh BAHBLES you won't regret even one  - single -   - itty - bitty -  minit uhv it!

T

[Naomi]

Well, I really don't want to throw a monkey wrench into this...but...

Everytime my grandparents would beat me, my grandfather would wait about a half an hour till he figured I had all but cried myself out...he would always tip-toe into my room and give me money or candy. It was his guilt, for hurting me, but so religious and convinced was he that "to spare the rod, spoils the child..." that he would whip me even harder, and I remember he was always so enraged when he was dangling me up by my arms and bashing and slashing at me with a wire wip, or belt, or the perfect stick he would find outside...

Every time, he came to me and gave me money or candy. they would burn my letters to my mother begging her to please come and get me, they never let my letters out of the house.

Anyway, there is a moral to this story. I am 42 years old now, and they still send me ten dollars in a card, every Christmas.

It is not love. It is guilt money. I didn't want it...and would give it to my mother and tell her to go buy some gasoline or food with it.

Which brings me to my point....

I feel it is a mistake to accept their guilt tokens. Something inside me tells me that I should never, ever accept their gifts. The gifts are lies, they are a cover up, they are soothing their conciences...for if I accept then I am being bought off yet again.

As poor as I am, I duck-out of my families already squabling over who gets what when they die...that disgusts me, it is wrong...it is materialism that means nothing...it is a bandaid for everything.

To keep them in your life just so you can get money or material things from them, does further damage to your spirit. I am not going to jump in here and agree that it is ok to accept these things because, well, they owe me, don't they? Since they destroyed my spirit, I am entitled to inherit everything they own when they die, and I am entitled to recieve guilt money from them. Do you see what I am trying deparately to say?

[shixie]

I cut off contact with my father at 18 leaving everything behind. Getting him out of my life allowed me to heal and grow. Since I had no idea what a relationship with a normal man was, unfortunately it took several tries until I stop getting involved with N mates.  My last and final N relationship I left empty handed again.  I didn't ask or fight him for my personal belongings, the house or any of the savings account.  I never regreted or looked back.  Happiness and peace of mind is much more valuable.  Even though he got everything I ever owned.  It wasn't enough for him. Several years later while refinancing my home. It turns out he charged thousands of dollars on a credit card in my name, which i am still trying to repair.  So watch the bastards, they have no conscience.

[Anonymous]

Hello All:

I have read with amusement the "trying to get N's to understand". I have survived 50 years of an N father, N significant others etc.  The only thing they understand IS IT ABOUT THEM.  I had no relationship with my N father.  The last 8 years of his life, there was no contact at all.  When he died I shed nary a tear.  When he sent his "guilt" money........I tore the checks up.  It was  not worth the "strings" attached to it.  I preferred the peace and quite.  Patz

[Samantha!]

I think it is a personal desicion. If I would make more money and would not still a little be dependent on my father I would not take anything from him anymore.

So I can understand those who take the money. On the other hand, the Ns buy them free and maybe they see it as an invitation to further abuse.

If you can afford it to live without them, I would recommend to do to. They will not change and like Patz said, trying to understand an N, well that is pretty worseless either and just lost life time and energy. Use it for beautiful things in your life.

Samantha

[vunil]

There is another wrinkle to this discussion of "what is ok to take from my N parents?"  If we take something from someone just because it helps us and not for the reasons we give or imply, then are we showing our own N tendencies.? It's so hard not to do it!  Because they do owe us.  But this thinking (feeling/reacting) is the cause of narcissism, or at least that's the impression I get from my readings. It's why these folks in our lives became that way themselves-- heaven knows my parents had doozies of parents themselves.  

Boy can I relate to all of the talk of parents giving to assuage their guilt-- or to signal to themselves that they are "the good ones."  One clue that all of it is not real is the way they magically give what they want to give (not what the other person wants or needs or asks for) and that they expect all kinds of things in return for the "gift."  As if any child thinks candy is a suitable payment for being beaten!  It makes me want to cry-- I'm so sorry anyone had to go through that.

My parents used to randomly reject me (sometimes by locking me out of the house or telling me to leave and not come back or threatening me in some other way) and then we would have this big tearful reunion a few hours later.  I never knew why they rejected me and I never understood what the reunions meant.  They did this from the time I was 5 or so.  Talk about a way to get screwed up about relationships!  But now when they seem to be reaching out to me it always feels the same as those weird scenarios in my past -- just fake (and a pause in the action until the next drama).

[Anonymous]

Vunil:  

What abuse as a child you must have endured.  No wonder you were/are confused.  It is the same with anyone with physical abuse as well.  First, they will attack and beat the crap out of you and then turn right around and shower you with compliments, gifts, promises not to do it again etc.  Only to do it all over again.  As a child you can see how you would get things twisted on how relationships work.  The message is "I hate you" no......I really love you"  nope I was wrong "I must hate you".  It just goes around and around.  Patz

[Anonymous]

I have a deeply narcissistic mother, and I have been in therapy for years to deal with her effects on my self-concept and choices.  However, my mother also had cancer in this period.  She does not have much money--enough to live, but barely.  She is now 75 and starting to fail physically.  My three siblings are, in their various ways, irresponsible and disengaged.

I have thought a great deal about the contact/no contact question.  In the end, I decided that I would do what I felt was right, not what my mother wanted or what anyone else (be it a therapist, a sibling, or a priest) told me was right.  I do not want my mother to define my life, and I feel that if I cut her off, that decision will have a huge effect on how I think about myself.

I realize that everybody's different, and that how much contact one can maintain depends on a number of variables.  I'm only trying to point out that it's fine to cut someone off, but not if you spend all your time thinking about having cut them off, or living as a victim because you have no mother or father.  Think about it:  If you let them define how you think, they win anyway.

Of course, there are degrees to everything, and if my mother had manifested some of the behaviors described in this thread, I doubt I could be on the same continent with her.  But I just wanted to add my two cents on the issue of cut off / maintain the relationship.

[Anonymous]

Guest:

I see your point.  Even though I cut off contact it was best for my circumstances.  However, my middle brother felt much like you.  In my father's latter years, he did go see him, see about his needs  etc.  I guess it depends on what you feel is right in that circumstance.  If you feel you need to react in this way, I see no fault in it at all.  It is what you are comfortable with and can live with as you see yourself in the mirror every morning.  Patz

[pinecone]

dear dear Naomi - your circumstances were so difficult, I am so glad you are well and have come to this board - I need to tell you, though, that my parents have no "guilt", they have no "conscience" regarding the reality of our family - the dysfunction all occurred on a much more subtle level - outwardly we all appeared just great, my Mom a PTA mom and Dad an executive  - myself, judged an "over-achiever" in 5th grade - not to mention I had a bout with ulcers in 3rd grade - my brother, now an HIV positive 58 year-old, god only knows what he went through - and now, I guess, through the good graces of therapy I underwent many years ago, have been able to dismiss the poisonous effects of, of my god, what am I saying, here I sit, substance-addicted, anyway, my parents just don't affect me anymore - they are just regular people who I happen to maintain a relationship with, just like someone I met on the street and would rather not communicate with, but because of the MONEY, I do -

and T - I will read those books - I s'weah!  love y'all, pinecone   [/b]

[serena]

dear dear Naomi - your circumstances were so difficult, I am so glad you are well and have come to this board - I need to tell you, though, that my parents have no "guilt", they have no "conscience" regarding the reality of our family - the dysfunction all occurred on a much more subtle level - outwardly we all appeared just great, my Mom a PTA mom and Dad an executive  - myself, judged an "over-achiever" in 5th grade - not to mention I had a bout with ulcers in 3rd grade - my brother, now an HIV positive 58 year-old, god only knows what he went through - and now, I guess, through the good graces of therapy I underwent many years ago, have been able to dismiss the poisonous effects of, of my god, what am I saying, here I sit, substance-addicted, anyway, my parents just don't affect me anymore - they are just regular people who I happen to maintain a relationship with, just like someone I met on the street and would rather not communicate with, but because of the MONEY, I do -

and T - I will read those books - I s'weah!  love y'all, pinecone   [/b]

The way I see it is this:  if we had this abuse inflicted on us by strangers, a church member, an organisation - we could sue.  I genuinely see it as COMPENSATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[T]

Oh, Pinecone-lee, pretty-please make us a lil' ol' thread to disuss these tomes when y'all do git a chayunce - I would jes DAH uh happineess to heah you-all's thawts own it...

T