She doesn't get it.

[Screamer]

Hello,

I have not posted here for a while.  I have not spoken to my N mother for two years.  It has been great to just have some peace for a change.  Things seemed to get better for me after I finally cut off relations.  

My husband is great and our relationship has had time to deepen.  We are planning to have children and have started the process. We moved to a bigger place to accomodate a nursery and I even got a promotion and started back to school for my masters.  

I was also diagnosed with Diabetes.  I feel that I would not have been able to deal with it well if she had been in my life.  It was hard enough as it was.  

I don't think I would have made the progress in my life that I have in the last two years if I was still devoting so much of my energy to dealing with my mother.

Yesterday she sent me an e-mail.  Here it is:

I am really missing you a lot today.  Can’t hold back the tears.  On February 14th it will be exactly 2 years since I have heard your voice.  I miss you too much.

I am writing a letter to both you and Franco to help you understand the backdrop of what was happening during your childhood.  The letter gets longer and longer and I don’t know when I will finish it.  But whenever that is, I hope you will take the time to read it.  I will also always have a copy in my lock box at the bank.  This letter will be for only yours and Franco’s eyes unless to choose to share it.

I love you more than you could ever know.

What surprises me is that she (and my brother) still think this is about my childhood.  Yes, my dad was severly abusive.  Yes, she knew about some of it (maybe not the sexual abuse... I'm not sure).  But this is about how she treats me TODAY!  

It makes it so easy for them to say... "she is just crazy", "she needs professional help", "she can't get over what happened."  This way my mother never has to look at how she is treating me.  She can simply believe it is all my problem, all in my head.  

I sent her back a note saying that this was not about my childhood and I preferred that she did NOT send me this letter.

Am I being very very cold?  I feel bad that she is sad, but I can't live like that any more.  

I have decided that after I have the baby I will open the door for her to be part of my child's life.  However, this will be contingent on some very clear ground rules.  She has never respected my boundaries... we'll see if that changes when I have a baby.

Thanks for listening... all comments and advice would be greatly appreciated.

Screamer.

[mum]

Screamer:  could you just tell her this (that you wrote):

" I feel bad that she is (you are) sad, but I can't live like that any more. "

Ball's in her court....you are proactively taking care of yourself and expressing empathy for her, without taking responsibility for her feelings, which are hers alone.  You can love her without taking her pain for her.

[Screamer]

I really need to practice this type of communication with her.  For now it has just been better to keep my distance.  

However, after I have the baby and attempt to reintegrate her into my life, I will take your advice!  You are right, I have to take care of myself without having to own or be responsible for her feelings as well.

Thank you!

[jondo]

Dear Screaming,
Your situationm is so much like my own.  My mother is also known for her letter writing ability and I'm sure her pain is real.  However we all know the real issue/s are never addressed.  I received several of the same compassionate, fatalistic letters like yours here.  I simply replied consistantly and on the same point - I hope that you get the courage to get the long-overdue help that you need. N's are quite used to their victims succumbing to their persistance.  One letter I actually relented a bit and responded favourably to only to immediately hear from many relatives, congratulating me for finally getting over whatever my problem was.  These happened to be members of her own immediate family who are also N's and are or choose to be as cluesless as she.  The most difficult decision for my wife and I was how to mange her persistence after the birth of our first child 7 months ago.  I have responded to her e-mails with the same position - recognize why you have relationship problems and deal with that - we'll be here at that time and at that time only. She continues to solicit support from others and continues to angle back into the "close" relationship we once had (?)  I ghaven't had a meaningful exchange with her my entire life.  She doesn't even know me or her other children - they've always been there to serve her needs.  I hope this resonates with you and that you can continue to be strong with respect to her denial.  I have recently come to realize that she may never change and that is sad however I just cannot pretend that I have anything but fear of her.  That is how she's controlled people her entire life - fear of her.

[catlover]

Hi Screamer,
I'm wondering if you could explain some of the boundary issues you have with your N mother.  I am working on "boundaries" right now with my therapist, and am sort of confused about it.  An example I could give is the next time my Nmother starts talking to me in gory detail about her sex life, I could say (in a funny way so as not to provoke anger) "Whoah!  My TMI buzzer is going off!  TMI means "too much information" mom."

[mum]

Screamer,Jondo,Gwen:
I kept uttering ick, yuck and ugh reading your posts.  I was lucky enough to be able to divorce my N, so I can't really imagine having one for a parent.  Your thread title really does sum it up, Screamer.  They just don't get it.  
My children are now in the position of learning how to deal with their N dad.  My daughter (after terse phone call from dad today) said : "well, clearly dad is mad again" (me: what makes you say that?) "well, because I am still with you on "his time" (her choice, homework related), "but you know, he'll just have to deal with it, it's not my problem."
Maybe because I left the guy, and am healing myself, she is learning in her teen years what takes most half a lifetime. Crossing fingers!

[mum]

Gwyn: (sorry for the Gwen)
My daughter says "OVERSHARE!" if anyone gives her info she would rather not have.... but I am her mom and very secure with our relationship....if she has used that innapropriately I can call her on it, etc. but I don't get upset about it, I mean she is 13.

I think humor is an awesome way for YOU to deal with boundaries, but my exN could turn those tables so fast on me, I would be gasping for air for days.  Maybe other N's are like that too.  
Keeping it with how you feel about it (I statements as opposed to judgement statements) is very smart, so I think you have that covered.

Sarcasm is a very interesting type of humor....very tricky as it usually comes with underlying defensiveness, meanness and negativity.  I think it is "funny" because irony and insincerety is involved....but that can also be a double edged sword....and it is a sword.

I know from teaching that I can only use sarcasm when I have a solid, respectful relationship with a kid/s already and it is mostly self-effacing.
ex:"yeah, I know you guys are dissapointed I am not absent again, today"....or "nice one, Ms. X" (when I goof up).
My ex uses sarcasm all the time, and specifically to hurt others (so they don't get him first I suppose?) and maybe since he considered it his territory he could turn it on me instantly.  The kids tell me he has several degrading names for his current wife....but just for fun, right?  Nice.

Just some rambling thoughts on sarcasm.  It is interesting to look at.

[Luego]

I

am really missing you a lot today. Can’t hold back the tears. On February 14th it will be exactly 2 years since I have heard your voice. I miss you too much.

I am writing a letter to both you and Franco to help you understand the backdrop of what was happening during your childhood. The letter gets longer and longer and I don’t know when I will finish it. But whenever that is, I hope you will take the time to read it. I will also always have a copy in my lock box at the bank. This letter will be for only yours and Franco’s eyes unless to choose to share it.

I love you more than you could ever know.

Hi Screamer. I saw your mom’s email and thought mine could have written it. She sends you this after two years? Have you had any contact in that time?

It’s incredible how it really is all about her. Does she enquire as to how you are?

The whole thing shouts of enmeshment, emotional incest, abusive manipulation. Is it a horrible coincidence that 14th is valentines? “I miss you too much” – too much? Is she going to die of a broken heart if she never sees you again? I don’t think so. Has she tried to telephone you in two years? If not, heck then it’s her fault she hasn’t heard your voice. It’s her problem, not yours.

“To help you understand” – because you obviously don’t understand do you? (This gets my back up, the implication that you can’t possibly understand fully: why not? Because only she knows the truth? Because only she is ‘right’? Rubbish.)

No doubt she sees herself as completely innocent of anything, including responsibility for your welfare. No doubt she’s written some letter about how it wasn’t her fault. Can she take responsibility for anything? Can she say ‘Sorry’ and mean it?

“I don’t know when I will finish it” I’m surprised she didn’t say IF she will finish it! This says – ‘so come and see me or you may never know’ or even ‘I might die before I finish it’. But she might be afraid of death, so she then brushes that aside ‘but whenever that is’. Big deal. Who cares.

“I hope you will take the time to read it” because you’re so ungrateful and unloving you just might not bother to read it? Give me a break!   Just lay some more guilt-trip down! Do you feel guilty at all Screamer? You’re supposed to, that’s the big intention here. Loads of guilt!

“have a copy in my lock box at the bank” ah back to death again. Poor me, I could die and you need to know where this most important thing is so that I can make you feel guilty and exonerate myself from the grave. Control and manipulation. Delusions of grandeur.

“I love you more than you could ever know”. Bullshit. This is always bullshit. People try and tell you what’s in your head, they know better than you do about what you think, feel or ‘know’.

Gosh Screamer. Maybe you should have written back and said “So who asked you about YOUR day mother? Wanna hear abut MY problems for a change?”.

Sorry I got just a bit wound up   reading your mom's email there.

The least contact the better I think. If you haven’t had contact for two years, it’s easier to feel pity for those who have abused us (and your mother abused you by not stopping your father). Distance and time have the effect of minimising their awfulness. Unfortunately people like our mothers tend to get worse with time, not better. If you want her back in your life, please prepare yourself. Personally I wouldn’t want my mother near any child of mine – and I don’t have children!  Take care.

[Anonymous]

Screamer, thoughts about you

I sent her back a note saying that this was not about my childhood and I preferred that she did NOT send me this letter.

What will you say if she asks: "what is it about then?" Would you tell her?

I have decided that after I have the baby I will open the door for her to be part of my child's life.

May I ask...why? Why would you want to do this?

Luego

[catlover]

To Mum:  I didn't realize what I was thinking of saying was sarcastic.... I guess I won't say "TMI means too much information" unless she seems to not know what it means...

To Screamer and Luego:  No, they CANNOT say they are sorry and really mean it.  Actually, they DO mean it, but what they are sorry for is THEMSELVES - sorry at how hard their life has been and how they had the "burden" of "caring for us" during all the difficulties, sorry that we "can't understand" their point of view.  I can't tell you how many times I've heard from my Nmother the theme represented by the statement in Screamer's mother's note:  "to help you understand the backdrop of what was happening in your childhood."  How many times I've heard, "Well I'm sorry, BUT my father was an alcoholic, your father didn't send child support, etc. etc and so on."  No, they CANNOT take responsibility for anything, so they expect us to take full responsibility for ourselves AND THEM!  OK - I got a little worked up after reading Luego's worked-up post

[mum]

Gwyn: Actually I think because you are coming from an  "I" position with humor, you have it covered (the hurtful sarcasm isn't there).
I guess it just got me started on where sarcasm has and hasn't worked in my life, that's all.  My issue, not yours.  You are the one who knows the situation and it's your relationship, not mine.  Trust yourself to do what's right at the time, and if it doesn't, well, remember, "they just don't get it" anyway.

[Anonymous]

Gwyn:

"Well I'm sorry, BUT my father was an alcoholic, your father didn't send child support, etc. etc and so on."

An excuse or explanation is NOT an apology eh?   Sheesh, I know.

It's okay to feel sad, sadness is where we rest and we can't expect to lose that particular sadness...and pity for them, sympathy for them as people is okay - but not at our expense. We have to live too somewhat calmed down ....Luego

[Anonymous]

Dear Screaming,
Your situationm is so much like my own.  My mother is also known for her letter writing ability and I'm sure her pain is real...  The most difficult decision for my wife and I was how to mange her persistence after the birth of our first child 7 months ago.

It sounds like you are doing very well in managing this.  It is so difficult to deal with an N who just won't leave you alone.  

I wonder how much worse things will get when I have a baby.

[Screamer]

Luego,

Thanks for responding!  If felt some of the same things that you mentioned as I read the letter.  I often wonder if its just me.  Am I being too hard on her??  It is so validating to hear that people who have had similar experiences see the same things within these letters.

You asked... "Is it a horrible coincidence that 14th is valentines?" The last time she heard from me was actually in January of 2003.  She either pulled this date out of her ass or strategically picked it to elicit an emotional response.  Which one do you think it is??

Screamer[/quote]

[Luego]

Oh - um - Screamer: "strategically picked it to elicit an emotional response" - interesting and worrying!

With mine, the facts (like actual dates and events) are irrelevant to her statements. She seems to state things which are about her internal fantasy world, and which bear no relation to what actually happens. She says things which make me gasp with wonder - strange ideas, like she intends to do something which she is not equipped to do (like go on a skiing holiday with a broken leg, as though the leg isn't broken).

I don't imagine the 14th is strategically picked as such - it's her expression of some warped ideas of 'love' and 'emotion' in her mind. I'd go as far to say she's confusing her relationship to you with her life's love relationships. This really isn't about the real you at all and it's very sad. (Maybe she's even acting out some other relationship, via you?? I think my mother has seen me as my father at times.)

I say relationship to you, not with you, because that's what I see in her email. She doesn't relate to the real you at all, she relates to some fantasy reality she has. The fact that you can say - it wasn't 14th Feb, it was January - blows her fantasy apart and proves that what she says doesn't take the real you into account at all. Of course if you told her this - about the date being wrong - I guess she would just brush it aside as not mattering?

I could be way off the mark here, so please have a pinch of salt and note that this is about mine, as much as yours.

Another thought, I wonder if that email needed any response at all from you? It's so one-way. Do you think she would have followed it up if you didn't reply? And has she replied to you? take care L