learning to sit with pain and emptiness?

[write]

I feel a bit low this morning, and I am trying to examine why I feel the sudden urge to engage with somone I already decided not to. It's definitely a pattern.

Sometimes I feel like there's been so much activity and drama revolving around others in my life- being in a calm place leaves me too much alone with myself, I'm uncomfortable with it.

It's also wonderful, but part of me misses the old life which was busier and less introspective.

I think learning to 'sit' with these unpleasant feelings is what will end the cycle of abusive relationships: ie doing anything feels better than doing nothing sometimes...

I'm going to book a therapy appointment for next week.

[Anonymous]

hello again write!

alone with myself, I'm uncomfortable with it.

old life which was busier and less introspective

remind me, in case I can't remember, if I did know, are you an introvert or exravert? It's my latest 'thing' to see if someone's being troubled by trying out the reality which isn't their natural safe zone.

Safer reality for intros: inside their heads, introspecting away all day and happy with it.

Safer reality for extras: other people, external reality, doing stuff and not thinking about their internals.

One way forward is to keep trying to understand and be comfortable with the reality which we are not naturally drawn to. If that makes sense? Portia

[mum]

Stay still inside the pain.  Don't move away from it, don't try to kill it, deny it, or make yourself more comfortable.  It is teaching you something.  Learn it now or learn it later, the lesson still awaits.
Feel it, and ask it what it wants from you.  You will find an answer if you are quiet.
The times in my life where I have done the most growing have been when I had no exit.  Change happens from within, and only when there is no alternative but to face it. (there never really is a way to avoid it, truly, just temporary saviors...and then we face it again and again).
It's always a choice.
You sound like you know this already.......

[ResilientLady]

Hi write,
I can relate to what you say. And maybe, adding to what mum said,

Feel it, and ask it what it wants from you.

, I can tell you what I do when I have such feelings.

Right now I am dealing w/ the issue of the Father figure, (not ok built in my psyche - so the doctors said) : I talk to myself and ask : "ok. How do you feel right now? Then I am trying to be honnest w/ exactly what I feel (it may be a mixture of several feelings, or one feeling then it fades away then another comes, etc..). Then if my "response" is too harsh for me to handle I write...I write poetry, symbolic little stories, and they help w/ the catharsis.

I 'found internal conversation' (written or mental) extremely helpful and reassuring to me since I could write any most negative feelings and my hopes too...

You have found a great name for this Board, 'write'. You probably picked it up w/ sthg in mind... Right?  

-RL

[bunny]

write,

at least you're aware of the dynamic of seeking out excitement.

My philosophy is that from the void / emptiness / loneliness come new possibilities. Okay I got that out of a book but it works for me.

bunny

[write]

but with strong character traits which resemble extrovert!
WHen I took the Myers-Briggs I was INFJ type.

I do know all this stuff already...I just don't know it...if you know what I mean.

I've come a long way- but still feel like a helpless child sometimes.

Thanks everyone, the support on here is wonderful!

[mum]

Write: My spiritual mentor, one of the most enlightened people I know, says she is still in kindergarten..... we are all in Kindergarten here.  Kindergarten is kinda fun, though, huh?
I "know" what you mean.....knowing what you don't know says your are onto something!  All the things I read forever made sense, but I didn't GET IT (internally) until I was ready.  Many times I still don't get it, but that's cool!
I'll just go fingerpaint for a while.

[BlueTopaz]

Very nice thread.

Write- I am really getting a lot out of your sharing your journey with the board.  

I can relate to so much of it, and I enjoy the general dialogue/insights that come out of it as well.

I hope you continue to do so.  

Hope you have found a great therapist, too.

BT

[Brigid]

Write,
I can very much relate to your mixed feelings of being alone vs. being busy.  I have always been very busy and absorbed with the day-to-day of life with children and family.  When my H left and I was suddenly forced to be alone, it was very frightening.  I wanted to find something to fill that void so I didn't have to face what was happening to my life.  It was too painful to try to process the new direction my life was being forced to take.  However, I was also so tired of trying to put on a facade of strength and coping for my children and friends that I just wanted to be alone to deal with the pain.

I journaled, prayed, exercised and found a place where I could sit and find some peace and comfort (near water for me), in addition to being in weekly therapy.  For the first time in my 54 years of life I found I could be alone and not be lonely.  I have always been afraid of being alone and thus settled for the first man who came along who was willing to rescue me from that.  I did that twice and have been burned twice.  I am learning alot about myself and why I have made the choices of mates I have in my life.  I am learning to accept that I have flaws, but that deep in my core I am a good person who has so much to give and so much love to offer, but it must be with someone who deserves it and returns it.  

It would have been easy for me to repeat past behaviors and just find the next replacement man who could deliver me from the pain of my husband leaving.  If I had not gotten into good therapy, I may very well have done that.  Certainly to the detriment of myself and my children.  

Every person on this site has had to work through some significant pain.  Some much worse than others.  I read the very sad stories of those who have tried to commit suicide or have spent years mutilating themselves.  In the very depths of my depression after he left, I could, for the first time in my life, understand someone wanting to commit suicide.  I thought of those people who wake up every day of their lives feeling hopeless and never knowing if they will ever feel better.  I had my children to live for, thankfully, and did not stay in that very dark place for long, but it did make me very grateful to not have a life of depression and sadness.  

Sorry if I am just going on here, but needed to release some of these thoughts.

[bludie]

Great thread.

Bunny: Deepak Chopra was spot on, eh?! Anyway, write, I have pondered same. Having been raised in chaos and in just ending a drama-filled relationship, the calm after the storm can be quite enveloping and disconcerting.

I like Portia's inquiry about intros/extros. What I have discovered throughout my most recent morass, is that I am quite the introvert. I don't get re-energized in being around others 24/7. Though my profession has called for quite a bit of extroverted characteristics, it's a game for me. In the work arena I can meet and greet, work a room, and put myself out there. When I come home from an event such as this, I am drained and need time to recharge.

Anyway, like mum said: be with the pain, silence, solitude or ambiguity. It's cleansing and rejuvenating because once we ultimately face it head on, we reduce the power those emotions have over us. We stare it in the face and say: Phooey!

Best,

bludie

[phillip]

Write: My spiritual mentor, one of the most enlightened people I know, says she is still in kindergarten..... we are all in Kindergarten here.  Kindergarten is kinda fun, though, huh?
I "know" what you mean.....knowing what you don't know says your are onto something!  All the things I read forever made sense, but I didn't GET IT (internally) until I was ready.  Many times I still don't get it, but that's cool!
I'll just go fingerpaint for a while.

I read the line once,"In matters of the spirit, one is always at the beginning".

[write]

I look back now and one of the reasons I didn't want to face my situation- unhappy as it was- was knowing deep down that I'd have to confront all these feelings of hurt and rejection going back decades.

And of course- the longer you stay, the more bad decisions you feel you've made...the more it compounds, until it's hard to even validate yourself as a person any more:

what kind of person has parents who don't love her unconditionally ( even now ) or a husband who does love her but continually rejects her with his problems and behaviour; what is wrong with me that I attract abusive men now I'm single and feeling together?; everything starts to translate as WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME??? and WILL IT EVER CHANGE???

Even people who are raised by loving thoughtful parents need validation out in the world and in their relationships.

For us engaged with narcissists and other significantly impaired people who are acting out against us and giving little or nothing to us- we struggle to get what we need from outside ourselves to keep self-esteem and a positive spirit alive. And since we're also struggling by then just to maintain an existence, there's no spare energy to work on ourselves, to work out that it wasn't our fault, and to disentangle from the negative people who come into our lives freely because we don't know how to have boundaries any more ( if ever ) or what WE need. We've got so used to pouring all our energy out into others.

And that is a paradox: because it also brings good people, good things  into our lives, and if your life was anything like mine it was lived on two levels, the public where everything looks wonderful, strong friendships, high achievement ( esp n h ), big life goals...then the private where the emptiness was unbearable.

So you run around setting up more and more things outside yourself...and getting further and further from this place within where it's been unhappy for so long just to try and think about it now is to feel ashamed that you're not what people see, you're not what you think you should be, your life is a shell.

It's not really talked about is it: my husband has anger outbursts and can't do sex & I'm very lonely. My father is a manipulative bully, don't feel sorry for him. My mother was an abusive alcoholic ( but we're all sorry now she's dead )

When I first went to a therapist I was shocked that she didn't tell me there was nothing she could do for me, ask me to leave, take offence at the things I was telling her.
And I'm not naive: but it was the fact it was ME, supposed-to-be-perfect-keep-it-all-in me.
My whole world could collapse if I stepped down as king-pin.

And it did.
I had a year of serious physical and mental illness brought on by the stress. In less than twelve months I was diagnosed with endometriosis, bipolar disorder, throat spasms, more bouts of flu/ tonsillitis/ muscle strains than I had in the whole of my life...every month there was something, it was like my body had enough.

And you know what, I kept going. I dropped 50 lbs; I kept it off.
I saw doctor after doctor and treated all my problems.
I handed over parenting to h who promptly went into therapy.
I made a new life in a new town, a new career.
H and I built a new relationship, to keep our family together.

And suddenly here I am, thinking I've only been working on my own health and issues for a long time. But it's not true. Even in this collapse and recovery it was more about everyone around me than about me.

I'm only at the start of 'working on me'...

& I still don't have the healthy boundaries to say 'sorry, can't deal with this now' or just plain 'no'.
I'm still trying to be perfect to get people who will never love me- BECAUSE THEY CAN'T- to love me.

And my latest relationship, even though I ended it pretty quickly because I saw through it & it wasn't good for me, it feels like a failure, like I've let someone down, and part of me is still bending over backwards to accomodate this man into my life as a friend or whatever...and ignoring the fact that he has used me at a vulnerable time in my life and there has been little reciprocity or signs of genuine friendship. But that's ok- I can bridge the gap, right. 'Cos that's what I've been doing for 40 years, bridging interminable chasms between myself and other damaged people.

And if I stop, then life is very quiet, almost dull. And yet I know it's time to let go of that particular 'skill' for a while.

I'm thrashing about right now, because though I can deal with the emotions of just about anyone else- I'm not used to sifting through my own. That doesn't seem as noble or worthy a pursuit somehow, not to mention exchanging emptiness for raw and tender pain.

Given the choice between the experience of pain and nothing, I would choose pain ~William Faulkner

[Anonymous]

The inside isn't empty Write. The inside of us is our core, our Self, our grounding (introverts).

I think from what you've said you tend towards extravert (a shy one?), you need others for your energy ....BUT one way through is to face your 'empty' internals and get to know them, get to trust them. Find your core and like it...

Going to therapy, seeing other people will not solve anything without you getting friendly and safe with yourself. In fact therapy can be like a welcome diversion!!! Other people don't remove anything. There's a well of comfort and self-companionable safety inside us. You don't die because you're alone. Alone does not equal lonely (just as sex does not equal togetherness. Sex with another person can be incredibly lonely). Sex is not the answer, it's another diversion.

Some manic depressives find that if they had the choice between a steady, calm, level life and the highs and lows they experience, they would choose the highs and lows. I can understand this, although I wouldn't want it myself. I want control of my thoughts and emotions!

Take it easy, it's not a race, pushing yourself doesn't work for me. Not 'working' on yourself is okay too! Taking a break from 'recovery' is as good as 'recovery' itself... .joke, well, half a one! best wishes Portia

[Portia]

Hi again

we struggle to get what we need from outside ourselves to keep self-esteem and a positive spirit alive. And since we're also struggling by then just to maintain an existence, there's no spare energy to work on ourselves

We've got so used to pouring all our energy out into others.

I test very high on introvert, okay, 100% some days. I just don’t do anything that you say above and being me, getting the theory right is as important as solving the problem (and understanding and solving the problem is everything to me). I don’t get from outside me. The outside always, always takes from me, drains me, makes me want to curl up and be happy alone. Other people generally don’t help me feel better about myself (okay, a trusted and valued two people in the world do). I have to change my mind to feel better about myself on any given day, other people don’t affect me (except if I allow myself to feel worse because I’m with them). Does this make sense to you??

So you run around setting up more and more things outside yourself...and getting further and further from this place within where it's been unhappy for so long just to try and think about it now is to feel ashamed that you're not what people see, you're not what you think you should be, your life is a shell.

I honestly don’t give a fig about what other people think of me. I care 100% about what I think of me. Do I want to respect myself OR do I want people to like me, given that life or death choice? Extraverts hesitate, they want both. Introverts are quick to say ‘self-respect’ - without that, I’m nothing.

What you *should*(?) be is living - because that’s all there is. We have a right to exist and we have as much right as anyone to be happy. Status, objects, money, looks, education, kids who ‘do us proud’ – it’s all worth nothing, if we aren’t comfortable in ourselves. I’m always wary of people who are ‘ambitious’, who have ‘stuff’ who seem to have the perfect lives. I wonder what’s wrong with them, true! I do! Because there usually is something wrong with them. Everyone has problems. Everyone has problems with sex. Yeah!

It’s helped me enormously to understand what kind of person I am, on the very basic introvert/extravert scale. They’re not easy to get hold of in the US, but Amazon UK sells Dorothy Rowe’s books. ‘The Successful Self’ is all about the intro/extra differences, how we don’t understand others because of these basic different ways of viewing the world and how to see it from the others’ point of view. It might help.

What’s most important in life? For me, understanding, achieving understanding. For you, it may be loving others and being with them. That’s a huge difference. Once you really get to the bottom of what you want in life, it can be simpler I think.

PS. A rejoinder for Phillip with a smile:
ACTION WITHOUT THOUGHT IS MEANINGLESS!

[Portia]

Again! Thanks Write for this thread which has prompted me to wonder why I like to read Dorothy Rowe so much (she’s a thinking introvert) versus why I understand but don’t really feel a deep connection when I read John Bradshaw, who is much more about feelings and ‘other people’, getting in touch with your inner children etc. Have you read Bradshaw – ‘Homecoming’ and ‘Creating love’? Good books.