Author Topic: Is there a Doctor in the house? Can NPD be hidden?  (Read 8438 times)

mum

  • Guest
Is there a Doctor in the house? Can NPD be hidden?
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2005, 07:45:04 PM »
Mudpup:
I have to agree with October on this. My ex N, during the initial deposition regarding my relocation case, could not help talking about himself...his talent, job, reputation.....then stumbled when asked how much money he made last year (said he didn't know).  He was just transparent! However, his attorney must have coached him well, because he was "sincere" acting during the trial and avoided any of the behavoir he showed in deposition.  I would NEVER tell him that I think he is a narcissist!  He and his attorney (because she is good) would twist and twirl that around me so quick I won't know what hit me.  I will let a therapist see that when and IF we get that far...and if he/she doesn't pick it up, oh well.
October is smart........don't let them know what you know about them!

As far as mediation goes, it has been my experience that it only works with two sane and reasonable people who have difficulty but not impossibility in communicating.  My fiance and his ex are a happy case in point.  They are both reasonable and both have the same goal, to make thier child's life as positive as possible.
Ours was a waste of time, and in family court, nothing said in mediation can ever be used in the courtroom (too bad, the mediator picked up his N thing instantly!)

Anonymous

  • Guest
Is there a Doctor in the house? Can NPD be hidden?
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2005, 07:54:35 PM »
Hi October,

Quote
It is like Bletchley Park cracking the Nazi codes in WWII. The last thing you do is let the enemy know that you have their code, and can understand everything they say and everything they do. If your brother finds out what you know, he will change the rules again, to your disadvantage.

Thank you so much. That was beautifully put, and I do believe you are right. I have already alerted my lawyer to study up on NPD prior to trial to use it to our advantage. Excellent analogy. It is like a code language they have isn't it?
I suspect I was more concerned with making myself look innocent to others than I was about winning. I forgot my truism, which is anybody that knew us both beforehand and chose to believe him deserves what they get, because they'll be on the receiving end themselves some day.

Quote
If you do decide to go ahead, there is a relatively easy way to get your brother to co-operate with a therapist, although it may not be ethical. Your therapist only needs to ask him for detailed advice about you and your problems. No N could resist that!!!!!  Then just sit back and let him talk.

That is hilarious because its true! He'd probably show up in a white smock, with a pipe in the corner of his mouth and Psych 101 under his arm like he was being asked to consult. :roll:
Hmmm, that's almost worth trying just to see it.
Thanks October. You're a pal. :)

mudpup

October

  • Guest
Is there a Doctor in the house? Can NPD be hidden?
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2005, 07:00:31 AM »
Quote from: Anonymous

That is hilarious because its true! He'd probably show up in a white smock, with a pipe in the corner of his mouth and Psych 101 under his arm like he was being asked to consult. :roll:
Hmmm, that's almost worth trying just to see it.
Thanks October. You're a pal. :)

mudpup


My mum would leap at the chance to do this for me too.  She used to be a nurse, and still thinks she knows everything there is to know about medicine.  And at the same time she has the usual N contempt for all doctors.  Absolute scathing dismissal of every bit of their knowledge and behaviour.  And everything they do is personal.  

In reality, her medical knowledge is limited, way out of date, and based on a whole lot of false assumptions.  Which would be funny if it were not also dangerous.  Years ago she advised my SIL to 'wait and see' when one of my nephews had a high temperature.  Fortunately, I spoke with SIL shortly afterwards, and politely disagreed.  I said it is never worth taking chances with a child, and to have him checked out by a doctor, and she did.   :D  I forget what it was now, but he needed medication.  

I never told my mum what I had done.  I just work quietly in the background, when I am able to, administering what antidote I can to her lies.  Not always very effective, or very much, but at least she doesn't have things completely her own way.

She would certainly loooooooooove to get her hands on my therapists, and tell them alllllll about me.   :lol:

Anonymous

  • Guest
Is there a Doctor in the house? Can NPD be hidden?
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2005, 10:24:01 AM »
Hi all:

Quote
She would certainly loooooooooove to get her hands on my therapists, and tell them alllllll about me.


October:  My "abuser" (I'm getting sick of writing that so I'm going to call the person "A") had a balistic fit when I refused to devulge who my therapist was or the address.  I feel so dumb.  It did not dawn on me that "A" would have jumped at the chance to do this and was actually determined to do so!  

I kept asking myself:  "Why does "A" want to "talk" to my therapist??? " and my answer to myself, at the time, was: "To get information?".

Didn't even occur to me that "A" wanted to "give" information, which would, I am sure now, have been false and destructive stuff, never mind satisfying for "A"!!

Thank God I kept silent.  Whew!!!

GFN

October

  • Guest
Is there a Doctor in the house? Can NPD be hidden?
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2005, 07:23:12 AM »
Quote from: Anonymous
Hi all:

Quote
She would certainly loooooooooove to get her hands on my therapists, and tell them alllllll about me.


October:  My "abuser" (I'm getting sick of writing that so I'm going to call the person "A") had a balistic fit when I refused to devulge who my therapist was or the address.  I feel so dumb.  It did not dawn on me that "A" would have jumped at the chance to do this and was actually determined to do so!  

I kept asking myself:  "Why does "A" want to "talk" to my therapist??? " and my answer to myself, at the time, was: "To get information?".

Didn't even occur to me that "A" wanted to "give" information, which would, I am sure now, have been false and destructive stuff, never mind satisfying for "A"!!

Thank God I kept silent.  Whew!!!

GFN


Amen to that!  Although any t worth their salt would not take long to see through an N, and it would not be to your harm for them to have evidence of what has been your experience.  

I am sure A wanted to dish the dirt on you, and tell your t how to 'cure' you.  In my experience Ns never look for information; they already know everything there is to know.  One thing you will never hear them say is 'Well, I never knew that!  How interesting!  You learn something new every day!!'

More likely is a disgusted tone, saying; 'I thought everyone knew that!'

 :D

Anonymous

  • Guest
Is there a Doctor in the house? Can NPD be hidden?
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2005, 08:43:44 AM »
Mudpuppy:

My middle brother is very adept at using psychological jargon to "identify" other people.  I really tried to "help" my middle brother.  He is a very wealthy person but is very poor spiritually.  He would go through the Bible and underline things that validated his position and then wanted me to agree with it.  When I pointed out he was taking things out of context his reply "are you arguing with the fact it states such and such right here?"

The last straw came with he was dating a young woman who had a 3 year old child.  I came home for a visit  his date and child were there, he wanted me to meet them.  Well the young woman was beautiful, educated etc. and her child I think had a few developmental issues, but was a nice child.  My brother told me that he felt the child was and "interfence" and that he was very "jealous" of the mother's relationship with the child.  He couldn't figure out why she "spent" so much time with him.  Mind you this was a 3 year old.  I finally told him that small children take a lot of time and energy and that as a single mom she had to meet all his needs.  His reply:  "Well, I have needs to."
He was really put out when I told him "Women and children are first in the boat" and you will have to settle for what is left.  She eventally wised up and quit dating him.

I am not certain but I think he has raised his son into a sociopath.  He has been acting out at school.  He is 17-18.  He got up in the middle of class and cursed his teacher out.  Did my brother and ex sister-in-law see this as a problem?  No, when the principal called.  My brother and ex sister in law wanted a "meeting" with the principal and teacher.  It was to blame the teacher and not make their son take responsiblity for his actions.  This is also true for any speeding tickets etc.  This is a worry for me because I fear one day I will receive a call where he has committed a crime where my brother cannot buy, delay or otherwise derail a day of reckoning.  My brother either thinks what his son does is funny or not important. I am very worried about all of this but my brother minimizes it?  All of this makes it really hard to go home for a visit because I confront my brother with what is going on.  Especially when my nephew starts acting out around me and my son.  This is exclusive of all the business issues that surround my family that are currently going on.  I find I simply cannot go home or communicate.  Mudpuppy, I have really been put in a similar situation by being ostrasized by my family because I do not accept the status quo.  I don't think I am unreasonable to question these things.  Do you think I am out of place doing so?  Patz

Portia

  • Guest
Is there a Doctor in the house? Can NPD be hidden?
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2005, 09:10:38 AM »
Quote
Ns never look for information; they already know everything there is to know. One thing you will never hear them say is 'Well, I never knew that! How interesting! You learn something new every day!!'

More likely is a disgusted tone, saying; 'I thought everyone knew that!'


October, you've met my mother haven't you? :wink:
May I add, when they're pretending to consider something you've said which is new to them: "You do have such interesting thoughts" or "don't you see things in a strange way?"  and then they change the subject, real quick.

...sorry out of sync here... Patz, I think you're being reasonable, what else can you do?

Anonymous

  • Guest
Is there a Doctor in the house? Can NPD be hidden?
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2005, 09:49:48 AM »
Portia:

I really don't know.  Other than staying away from my family which is a solution.  I try to accept what I can and leave the parts I cannot.  I have been put in a untentable postion of "choosing sides" because of their business issues and the issues surrounding their children.  Considering both of my parents are dead, they are the only family I have.  I also have a hard time with trust issues because of past N relationships.  I have aquaintances and maybe 1 or 2 close friends, but no relationships with men.  It is much more preferable to me not to pursue any relationships with men because I really fear my judgement........what if I get involved in another N relationship..........the last one was devastating.  Simply cannot expose myself to the possiblity.  That is were things are with me presently.  Patz

Anonymous

  • Guest
Is there a Doctor in the house? Can NPD be hidden?
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2005, 09:53:27 AM »
Patz,

In my personal experience (i.e., in my family) confronting an N parent about their child-rearing is not the way to go. They refuse to take it in, so it's a waste of time. What I do is focus on the child and be there for them. I pretty much ignore the parents totally.

Since you have a teenage nephew with conduct disorder, it will be very hard for you to reach him. I don't know if you can. Plus you have to protect your child from his bad influence. But my vote is to focus on the teen and see what's going on with him. Ask him about things he's interested in. He may not talk to you but what if he does? He really needs an adult role model.

bunny

October

  • Guest
Is there a Doctor in the house? Can NPD be hidden?
« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2005, 10:02:55 AM »
Quote from: Portia
Quote
Ns never look for information; they already know everything there is to know. One thing you will never hear them say is 'Well, I never knew that! How interesting! You learn something new every day!!'

More likely is a disgusted tone, saying; 'I thought everyone knew that!'


October, you've met my mother haven't you? :wink:

...sorry out of sync here... Patz, I think you're being reasonable, what else can you do?


No, Patz, you are not being unreasonable.  You are doing what you can, even if you can see that it is not having much effect.  What else can any of us do?

Portia, if your mother is anything like mine, then I feel for you!!!  (Not in competition with you on this!!  Just empathy.   :D )

My mum, when she hears something she doesn't want to hear, goes all spaced out.  She stares into space, with a martyred look on her face, and disappears.  She keeps that up for as long as it takes.  So usually I keep asking and asking for a response, to not allow her to space out.   :twisted:

Her best response then is very vague.  She will say. 'Well ..... ' and never find the end of the sentence.  Or she will say, 'Think what you like.' or 'Do what you want'.  Passive aggressive.

I mentioned to her recently that her hearing is going.  This is very evident to the whole family, but she will not admit it.  Her responses were similar to above.  First she blanked me.  Then when I continued to ask about this, her answers (all avoiding the issue) included; 'None of us are getting any younger!', 'Well, I don't need a hearing aid yet!', and 'I am not in my dotage yet!'    

Each time I replied, 'That is not what I said. What I said is that your hearing is not what it once was, and that you could get this checked out.'

She cannot do this because that would be admitting that she is less than perfect.  She is the only person in the family not to have glasses; not because she doesn't need them.  She does.  But she will not admit that she does.  In her fantasy world she has 20:20 vision.  And hearing.

Anonymous

  • Guest
Is there a Doctor in the house? Can NPD be hidden?
« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2005, 05:56:50 PM »
Quote
Amen to that! Although any t worth their salt would not take long to see through an N, and it would not be to your harm for them to have evidence of what has been your experience.

I am sure A wanted to dish the dirt on you, and tell your t how to 'cure' you. In my experience Ns never look for information; they already know everything there is to know. One thing you will never hear them say is 'Well, I never knew that! How interesting! You learn something new every day!!'

More likely is a disgusted tone, saying; 'I thought everyone knew that!'


Thankyou October!!  I felt sooooo sane after I read your words!!  You are so right!!  Are you sure A has not been to visit you?  It's just that A uses that exact sentence and other equally genious-proclaiming  expressions religiously!!!

The thing about that particular t was that she was one of the ones that traumatized me further and I wouldn't have put it past her to hook up with A and have me committed!!!  Double Thank God  I kept quiet!!!!

Quote
...when she hears something she doesn't want to hear, goes all spaced out. She stares into space, with a martyred look on her face, and disappears. She keeps that up for as long as it takes. So usually I keep asking and asking for a response, to not allow her to space out.


Holey Toledo!!! That's what my t kept doing in those sessions!!!!  She would ask a question.....and I would give an answer....and then, she'd do that space thingy......and then I'd try to check and see if she heard me.....and she'd get an angry look and in an irritated voice snarl:  "yes".....and then go all spacey again....and then.....look off into the distance....and next......say:  "But.....no!" (like she'd had some major revelation--and as if everything I'd just said was worthless) and then look at me and ask me another question... and turn away again, as soon as I started to answer and do the space thingy all over again!!! :shock:

It made me feel like I was talking to an alien......or in a different language or something.  No feedback.  No positive reinforcement.  No insight.  No indicating she understood or that she was trying to be sure about my feelings (although sometimes rude criticisms like:  "You sound good but..." without finishing and leaving me wondering wtf she was saying???).

Nothing helpful.  No real eye contact or giving me body language that indicated she was accepting, or listening, or even in the same room with me, or even on the same planet! :shock:

This should be in the t thread, I guess.  

I was so messed up at that time that I really didn't know what to do. The only thing I did right was document as much as I could remember, every time I left.  I was journalling everything, then, so I could examine it and see if I was losing it??? or feeling the same...later??? or feeling worse or what??  I figgered out that this woman was a nutbar!!!!  But...I was in shock when I first went to her and thought she must know what she's doing!!!  Jeepers!!! :x

I guess I do have a question that applies......which is:

Is this space thingy N related or is it some other disorder??  I haven't seen anyone else speak of it here.  

GFN

mum

  • Guest
Is there a Doctor in the house? Can NPD be hidden?
« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2005, 06:37:30 PM »
GFN: re; the spacey thing.  My exN does it all the time, so does my neighbor/friend (major N).  They are simply NOT listening to you.  They are thinking about something they deem much more important, and that is WHAT THEY ARE ABOUT TO SAY!  It is futile to call them on it.  They don't even hear that either....and if you say something, it will be used to attack you!  The only thing that keeps me in contact with my friend is that she sometimes notices it, and says, my god, I'm so sorry....but then she does it again, but maybe there is hope for her.  My ex is a lost cause.

Patz:  your nephew's parents are every teacher's nightmare!  Not your nephew, his parents!  I am a teacher, and I deal with dozens of those parents everyyear (I teach in an "upscale" area).  We struggle with this problem always.  WE can teach just about anything (manners, responsibility) but NEVER if it is undermined at home.  It's spitting into the wind.  I would keep your son away from his cousin's influence if at all possible, or at least supervise any time they have together.  You brother sounds like a shit, his wife just as bad, and they are training a sociopath.
I am sooo sorry they are your family.

bunny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 713
Is there a Doctor in the house? Can NPD be hidden?
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2005, 06:38:15 PM »
Quote from: Anonymous
Holey Toledo!!! That's what my t kept doing in those sessions!!!!  She would ask a question.....and I would give an answer....and then, she'd do that space thingy......and then I'd try to check and see if she heard me.....and she'd get an angry look and in an irritated voice snarl:  "yes".....and then go all spacey again....and then.....look off into the distance....and next......say:  "But.....no!" (like she'd had some major revelation--and as if everything I'd just said was worthless) and then look at me and ask me another question... and turn away again, as soon as I started to answer and do the space thingy all over again!!! :shock:


GFN, I believe October was describing her mother, not her bad therapist. If a therapist was behaving this way, that is CRAZY. Where did this individual come from??!? She is a fruitcake!

bunny

Anonymous

  • Guest
Is there a Doctor in the house? Can NPD be hidden?
« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2005, 07:13:36 PM »
Quote
GFN: re; the spacey thing. My exN does it all the time, so does my neighbor/friend (major N). They are simply NOT listening to you. They are thinking about something they deem much more important, and that is WHAT THEY ARE ABOUT TO SAY! It is futile to call them on it. They don't even hear that either....and if you say something, it will be used to attack you!


Thanks Mum!!!  That's exactly what she did (attack) sometimes!!!  I was flabbergasted when she did that!!! :shock:

Wanna know how stupid I am.........I thought it was some....technique!!! :oops:  :oops:  :oops: Jeepers!!!
She was supposed to be a trauma specialist!!!!

Special agent N, I think now!!!!! :x  :twisted:

Hi Bunny:

G
Quote
FN, I believe October was describing her mother, not her bad therapist.


Yes, I realized that but it was the behaviour......spaced out thingy that hit me like a bullet!!!! :shock:

Quote
If a therapist was behaving this way, that is CRAZY. Where did this individual come from??!? She is a fruitcake!


NO kidding!!!  She had credentials/a licence, was highly recomended by someone who knew someone who went to her and thought she was:
"Fantastic!!!"

I guess...if you love fruitcake. :roll:

Boy!  No wonder I felt so abused and tormented by her.  I used to physically shake for 1/2 hour before each visit and it took me a week to get over it!!   I'm serious!!!  A week!!!  And then it would be time to go again. :(

It was awful.  The good news is, when I finally came out of shock.....I started reading my journal and telling myself that I deserved better than this!!!  I needed to feel comfortable and able to express my feelings and to trust and get something.....some inkling of positive feedback.   I needed to get away from this loonie!!!  She was hurting me more than I already was.

The person I found....was really a wonderful, very knowledgable, experienced, kind, sensible, etc person and helped me so much. :)

Triple Thank God!  Or I'd be an in-patient by now.

Sorry to go off topic and hijack this thread like that.

GFN

October

  • Guest
Is there a Doctor in the house? Can NPD be hidden?
« Reply #29 on: March 11, 2005, 09:30:59 AM »
Quote from: Anonymous
She would ask a question.....and I would give an answer....and then, she'd do that space thingy......and then I'd try to check and see if she heard me.....and she'd get an angry look and in an irritated voice snarl:  "yes".....and then go all spacey again....and then.....look off into the distance....and next......say:  "But.....no!" (like she'd had some major revelation--and as if everything I'd just said was worthless) and then look at me and ask me another question... and turn away again, as soon as I started to answer and do the space thingy all over again!!! :shock:

It made me feel like I was talking to an alien......or in a different language or something.  No feedback.  No positive reinforcement.  No insight.  No indicating she understood or that she was trying to be sure about my feelings (although sometimes rude criticisms like:  "You sound good but..." without finishing and leaving me wondering wtf she was saying???).

Nothing helpful.  No real eye contact or giving me body language that indicated she was accepting, or listening, or even in the same room with me, or even on the same planet! :shock:




Well, I will try to imagine what is going on inside the t's head in this situation, by the nightmare expedient of making my Nmum into the therapist, which incidentally she would loooooooove.

T asks 'Tell me about your childhood'

You start to answer '.................

T spaces out, assumes martyred air and thinks 'Nobody had a childhood worse than mine.  Nobody really understands me.  (sighs)  What is the point of even trying to help this stupid person, when they don't have the first idea what they are saying, or what I could do if only they would answer the questions right.  What a waste of time this is!  I wonder what I should have for dinner tonight?'

You say something like 'Did you hear what I said?'  You have to say it two or three times, and eventually get through.

T gets cross at the interruption.  'Of course I heard.  Carry on'  Spaces out again.  

Continues for 1 hour.  Result for someone suffering from trauma; retraumatisation.  No wonder it took a week to recover.   :(