Is there a Doctor in the house? Can NPD be hidden?

[mudpup]

Hi everyone especially patz,

I've been out in the woods a couple of days. I'm pooped, I got laryngitis and a nice headache but I just saw Patz's question so I'll be a trooper and answer, cause Patz is   .

Patz wrote,

Mudpuppy, I have really been put in a similar situation by being ostrasized by my family because I do not accept the status quo. I don't think I am unreasonable to question these things. Do you think I am out of place doing so?

You're asking me if you're out of place for questioning your brother's behavior? I'm suing my brother for his behavior.

They are out of place, for ruining their child who is the most important responsibility they were given, for trying to drag you into their business mess and their petty infantile N squabbles, for just being Ns and choosing to bring ugliness and harm to others so their own pathetic little egos are protected, but especially for using their sister as a weapon to manipulate in their crummy little lives.
It is an HONOR for you to be ostracised for doing the right thing and sticking up for the truth! That doesn't mean it is pleasant, but the alternative is to bury yourself and your self respect under a mountain of compromise and manipulation. The fact that you stand for a little human decency and the truth makes me respect you, and I'll bet it makes those who know you personally respect you as well. I consider you the honor guard for your family, and I am proud of your strength..

I have aquaintances and maybe 1 or 2 close friends, but no relationships with men. It is much more preferable to me not to pursue any relationships with men because I really fear my judgement........what if I get involved in another N relationship..........the last one was devastating. Simply cannot expose myself to the possiblity. That is were things are with me presently.

You have responded several times to my posts and they have always been very sweet. I'm a man and I consider you my friend, so there, you have a relationship with a man.  
 Listen, Brigid has already said I could be her little brother, so if you'll let me, I'll be your brother too.
I think you're doing the right thing and I think you are the cat's pajamas for doing it.
God bless you Patz.

mudpuppy

[Anonymous]

Mudpuppy:

Thank you for your reply.  It is very sad for me to see what my brother has done to my nephew.  He has treated him as an extension of himself and to live vicariously through him.  This was regardless of what the child wanted.  

All of this is doubly hard because I have a disabled child.  My hope and desire was for my neices and nephews to take an interest in my son.  This has not been the case at all.  I am sure part of it is due to the fact I live 1500 miles away and they do not see him on an ongoing basis.  However, whenever I DO go home, they make no effort to see either me or him.  I remember going home for about 3 weeks and my younger brother came by to see me only once.  I thought I would take the intiative and tell him that if  he would call I would be happy to go to lunch or whatever, just to let me know.  He never did call.  So my thought is even if I live there in the same town with them, this would be the kind of ongoing treatment I and my son would receive.  We would be invisible.
This is a long way of telling you that now as I go to make my will, I am truly at a loss to know who or where to leave guardianship for my son.  My family does NOT have any interest  at all.  This is even after I have made my desires known.

I do not go home for a variety of reasons, but the paramount one is not exposing my son to their indifference.  He has his own desires and is a very sweet person, it would not really cost them much to pay just a little attention to him.  Prehaps to take him to McDonalds a movie.  I tried to make allowances for my nieces and nephews by thinking "Well, they are young, have not had the exposure to special needs individuals etc."  The conclusion I arrived at was that if rank strangers treat  my son with consideration, what is THEIR problem besides self-absorption?

So much like you I grapple with the fact I cannot accept their boorish behavior, their indifference.  You should see what they do for themselves for Christmas!  I kid you not that it is impossible to hardly get around the tree because gifts are piled up so high.  Yet they cannot find it within themselves to maybe give my son a $12 CD?  So I quit giving them anything and told my brother they were adult now and that I was going to give to the Angel Tree at the YMCA or support a needy family through my Sunday School.  He really got miffed about it all.

So I just don't go home.  We are invisible if we are there.  So I have tried to the best of my ability to carve out a life for myself and son where I live.  I was fortunate enough to move into a state that had the necessary supports for my son after I am dead and gone.  So I am currently trying to do those things in a long term way that will benefit him.  Like I bought a new house, not for me , but for him.  I have structured his day so he spends most of his afternoons at the YWCA  with a care provider that does things with him.  We are currently going to church and has a Sunday School class that is special needs for adults.  So I am trying hard to provide a predicable life for him (and as every child needs).  I just wish I had the support of my family.  I really grieve about this because not for  myself but for my child.  I don't know what to do about the guardenship issue.  I have prayed about this and am waiting on the Lord to give me answers.  It might just be an evolving issue and I must wait.  Thank you for listening.  Any comments would be appreciated.  Love, Patz

[Anonymous]

October, This therapist should not have a license to practice. I'm very sorry you were abused and harmed by this individual. Can you complain to her licensing board? Have you ever told your current counselor about this loser?

Patz, Your brothers are monsters.  I'm so sorry that they are such a**holes. They are horrible people and remind me of characters in a Victorian novel like Oliver Twist.  

bunny

[Anonymous]

Hi Patz,
My first reaction is, why are there so many a**holes in the world? But of course that doesn't do you any good, as you've probably thought it yourself a thousand times.
So let me ask a few questons instead.
Do you think keeping in contact with your brothers is good for you or your son?
Do you have hopes that your brothers will ever be decent?
Is keeping in contact with them hindering your search for friends and companions where you are at?
In other words, do you think you are afraid to replace your broken family with good people because you think there is still hope for your brothers?
Does your experience with your brothers make it hard to open up to people where you are at now?
Do you know someone you trust who you think you could approach about guardianship of your son?
Are there any agencies you can contact that could put you in touch with a family that adopts special needs people, in case of ?
I don't know the answers to any of those questions Patz, or if the answers would even help, but I do know the Lord is listening to your prayers and when it is time you will receive your answer. Cast your cares on him and He will sustain you, it says in Proverbs, and I believe it.

And as far as your brothers are concerned I think bunny pretty much said it all.

God bless, I wish I could do more.

I don't usually do this mushy stuff, but ((((((Patz))))))

mudpup

[Anonymous]

Dear Mudpuppy and bunny,

Thanks again for your thoughtful replies.  I have often thought that my family came out of the movie "Deliverance".  I have not said much but my life started out with my father not wanting me etc.  I have been an overcomer much of my life.  When my child was born and it was becoming apparent that he was a special needs child, I really put everything on the back burner for him.  In doing so it has paid dividends because on a scale of 1-10,  the doctor said  he was a 9.  He has now developed into a very handsome young man who has many interests and is quite pleasureable to be around.  

I keep in touch with my middle brother and much of the conversation is one sided.  He might ask about my son but moves on to topics of interests such as what he is doing in his business, what he is doing with building his new house, what he is doing with his 5th wheel RV, how wronged he feels about my other brother and their business difficulties.  Why do I keep in touch?  In the event anything goes wrong hopefully he will have that empathy to come see about us.  Otherwise I minimize the amount of contact I have with him because of his lifestyle.  It is a very self absorbed lifestyle.  What people can do for him, what he is going to acquire, what his next project is going to be etc.  I don't think it is necessarily hindering my companionship choices or necessarily making friends with others.  I do think because of my past relationship with my now deceased n husband, my n father it makes it hard to open up to other individuals until I see what they are about.  

I am currently in the process of really beginning to make what I call close friendships to replace my broken family.  My family of origin is totally fragmented.  My ability to call upon them for much has been very limited. I pretty well have been taking care of myself much of my life and it makes it very hard to relinquish that to another individual.  You will find that some women who have been in that position for a length of time, have a hard time with control issues especially when it comes to their children and money.  I would have to be honest and tell you that I would probably fall into that catagory.

 I think it is in part because my n husband ran us into 150k debt and I had to force him to get out and get a better paying job.  He thought he was in retirement and was a 43 year old man!  He did get a better job and I was able to dig us out within about 2 half years.  Had to eat beans to do it, but I did it.  He accused me of spending all the money when in fact I was retiring debt as fast as I could.  That was a real trip Mudpuppy.  So relinquishing financial control would be hard for me.   The give and take in a relationship would have a lot to overcome.  I am not going to put any man through that.

My church has what they call the Stephen Ministry which have really qualified lay people helping other with life decisions.  They all have to go through a training process and are led by groups of professionals.  This is how the laity of the church reach out to others.  I am thinking seriously about contacting this aspect of my church and begin working on the guardenship issues through this.  Also the Association of Retarded Citizens have what they call a living will.  There are aspects of this where I would have to reliquish monetary control of my son's estate on my death.  I am not sure about this.  There seems to be a lot of loop holes and might not be in my son's interests.  So you see there is a lot of ground work to laid before I can set up any "Special Needs Trust".  I just think it is going to take time before things "gel" so to speak, and I need to give myself that time.

I do know one thing.  The probability of my nieces and nephews helping right now is zilich.  To be fair I also know that young people are absorbed finding their own way in life and establishing themselves.  All this might change as they approach their 30's and 40's and only time will tell this.  What is true today is not true tomorrow.  I only know that I come from a family "of the self absorbed".  The probability of my brothers or yours changing at this juncture is nil.  We can only look after ourselves and family.  I did not mean to run on about this and not be encouraging to  you and bunny.  It just seems at times that "nice" people do finish last? I know the Lord has told us that the rain falls on the just and the unjust but at times it does seems it is not evenly spread around dosen't it?

Mudpuppy at this juncture you are doing probably the thing left for you to do in suing your brother.  If your retirement is endangered because of this, then you have no choice, especially if your effort  has made the business what it is today.  Is there any way you can employ a forensic cpa type to help you reconstruct what was done or not done in the business and your contribution to the business......its worth?   Again thanks for being here.  Love, Patz

[Anonymous]

Hi Patz,
To me  your post is very encouraging. You are taking good, positive steps to take care of your son. I'm confident they will bear fruit.

I have often thought that my family came out of the movie "Deliverance".

 Was that one of your brothers sittin' on the bridge picking the banjo at the start of the movie?      He still gives me nightmares.

Can I give you a little encouragement? A lot of what you say sounds like you are discouraged because of where you are right now. But you're not going to be there in a year or a month or even a day. As long as you are taking steps to recover from your family, you are making progress. Sometimes it is hideously slow progress, but then one day we dare to look back and we can't believe how far we have come.

Who says you need a man anyway? But if one who is compatible with you does come along, you'll find it much easier to cooperate than you think, I bet.

It just seems at times that "nice" people do finish last? I know the Lord has told us that the rain falls on the just and the unjust but at times it does seems it is not evenly spread around dosen't it?

You know I'm a Christian, I think, so I'll just tell you it is irrelevant where we finish this race. This is just the dress rehearsal. You will receive your rewards for the way you have given your life for your son, and the way you have tried to get along with impossible people.
Don't remember the verse about the rain. Remember this one.
"The last shall be first, and the first shall be last."
God bless, Patz

mudpuppy

PS. About a forensic CPA, the vast majority of our assets are in the form of real esatate so all we really needed was an appraiser. That's one good thing about land, its pretty hard to hide.  

[Anonymous]

Mudpuppy:

Thanks for your uplifting comments.  In reality I am probably futher along than I give myself credit for.  The first and formost is recognizing the limitations of my family and using my on "internal resources" as it were to push ahead.  Sometimes you have all these thoughts in your mind and when you put it down on "paper" and have feedback from others it helps to crystalize the next "step".

Glad to see that your assets are tangible and hard to hide.  That should make it easier when the rubber meets the road so to speak in court. Just presevere and know you are on the right path.

Have a blessed day,
Patz

[Anonymous]

Hello everyone:

Just peeking in after being away for a week and for once, I remembered to check back, at least in this thread, where I posted.  Can't promise I'll remember to check every place so I hope if others posted to me and I miss posting back that you'll please accept my appology for forgetting.

October wrote:

Well, I will try to imagine what is going on inside the t's head in this situation, by the nightmare expedient of making my Nmum into the therapist, which incidentally she would loooooooove.

T asks 'Tell me about your childhood'

You start to answer '.................

T spaces out, assumes martyred air and thinks 'Nobody had a childhood worse than mine. Nobody really understands me. (sighs) What is the point of even trying to help this stupid person, when they don't have the first idea what they are saying, or what I could do if only they would answer the questions right. What a waste of time this is! I wonder what I should have for dinner tonight?'

You say something like 'Did you hear what I said?' You have to say it two or three times, and eventually get through.

T gets cross at the interruption. 'Of course I heard. Carry on' Spaces out again.

Continues for 1 hour. Result for someone suffering from trauma; retraumatisation. No wonder it took a week to recover.

October, are you sure you weren't a fly on the wall of my therapy sessions with this lunatic??

Thankyou for validating my experinece.  It was very much as you have described except that I was terrified of this woman and the power she had over my situation (or the power I thought she had--which turned out to be waaaayyyy less than I had been told),  and I have not really tried to imagine what was going on in her head with any detail.  I was tooooo into trying to get a grip at the time and I just felt traumatized and retraumatized, as you put it, each and every time I went there.   Later, when I felt healthier, I just buried my memory of her in a drawer maked:  "batty" and left it there.  Probably not the best way I could have concluded our experience together.....I'm sure I felt angry for her "treatment" of me and a whole wack of stuff, but I'm also pretty sure I banged her head a few times when I visualized it on my bongo drums, so I'm fairly over most of it.

Still....knowing that someone else can imagine such a thing happening and can understand how I felt......really feels good October.  Thankyou.

Bunny:  The therapist was mine.

This therapist should not have a license to practice.

Yes.  There are even better reasons for removing it....for example...she insisted that I call my doctor and have my medication changed from one that seemed to me to be working ok... to one she was sure I should be on.  She had no licence to issue medication orders and no place directing me or anyone else to take anything.  She was so adamant about it and so positive that this is what I must do that I did what she said and called my doctor and relayed her instructions.

I took one pill and that night.....I thought I was going to die!!!  Truly!!Every single nerve in my body felt on fire and I have never experienced such terrifying anxiety, or horrible fear-filled thinking ....even including the abuse I suffered as a child.  I felt utterly frozen in my bed, paralysed, unable to move, this awful burning every where, horrified and I layed there for 7 hours without moving.  I would have called for an ambulance had I been able.  When it wore off, I was so relieved and thankful to be alive!!!  That night I took the stuff my doctor had originally prescribed and told myself it would be ok to ignor my therapist's instructions.

At our next session, I told her what had happened and she asked me to bring in the bottle of that medication, so she could give it to someone less fortunate, since I wasn't going to be using it!!!!!  

I knew it was a strange request but I did as she said.  I was in such a state of shock, confusion and fear that I really acted a bit like a zombie.

I'm very sorry you were abused and harmed by this individual. Can you complain to her licensing board? Have you ever told your current counselor about this loser?

Thanks Bunny.  I could complain but I did give her very personal information and I feel so not like having to deal with anything she might decide to bring up, or with any picture of me she might decide to try to create, that I'm just not up to dealing with it.  Besides.....how can I prove anything?  Her word against mine.  And years have since passed.

I told my next counsellor all of what I've said here and more and she suggested that possibly sometime in the future I might decide to make a complaint.  When I feel strong enough.

Ya.

Maybe....in my next life.

Even that counselor fell suddenly ill and was forced to retire quickly, so she in not an available witness.  And my doctor has also since retired.

Mudpuppy:  Sorry to hear you were feeling under the weather.  Hope you are much better now!

Patz:  God bless you.  May the sun soon shine on you and your son!

GFN

[Anonymous]

GFN,

Sorry if I confused your experience with another's. Your former therapist is a psychopath. I'm not saying this lightly. I am horrified. If you complained about her, your word would trump hers. In these situations, the therapist is guilty until proven innocent. And it doesn't matter whether two of the people who know are retired. As long as they aren't dead. Anyway, I'm sorry it happened. It's too awful. I'm absolutely stunned and horrified. I'm also appalled that your M.D. listened to this idiot. He also has a problem.

bunny

[Anonymous]

Hi again Bunny:

Sorry if I confused your experience with another's.

No worries Bunny.  It's easy enough to do in these threads.

Your former therapist is a psychopath. I'm not saying this lightly.

I don't know if she's a psychopath or not but I do think she stepped a way out of line and should not hold a licence to practice her profession.  On the other hand....I am the coward who could make all of that happen for her but unfortunately for others and goodie for her......I'm not prepared to do it.

I do think she has helped a lot of people during her career and so that helps to restrain my guilt for not chasing her to her board of licensure.  I also think, she helped many, many who were in the exact opposite of my situation and that she could not empathize with me because of her own personal feelings and views.   She made some big bad choices......such as the medication directive...and for this alone she deserves to face the consequences.  On the other hand.....I am not at all feeling strong enough to face her and what she might say about me.  It doesn't matter if any of it were true or not.....I've already learned that lesson.

I am horrified.

Yes.  What a nutbar eh?

If you complained about her, your word would trump hers. In these situations, the therapist is guilty until proven innocent.

I'd like to believe you but I doubt it very much.

And it doesn't matter whether two of the people who know are retired. As long as they aren't dead.

Yes.  That's very true.  I never considered that.  Thanks again.  Maybe some day....

Anyway, I'm sorry it happened. It's too awful. I'm absolutely stunned and horrified.

Thanks Bunny.  I am too when I think about it.  Especially since I hold the same licence she does and know very well how severely incompetent and disgraceful her conduct was...in many instances.

I'm also appalled that your M.D. listened to this idiot. He also has a problem.

I was very surprised that when I called my doc's office and spoke with her secretary, giving the secretary instructions from this therapist, that my doc would actually order the med, over the phone like that, to the pharmacy.  I would have thought she would have asked to see me.

However, I have made errors myself, in my career, so I can't really condem anyone.  The whole situation was a mess and I was a mess and the therapist made it worse.  To me....she still just seems like some nutbar trying to prove herself to be something she is not....competent.

And I am too chicken to take her on because I could lose my licence for bringing that bottle of medication to her office and giving it to her (or maybe not.....depending on whether or not I was believed to be in that awful state I was in.....and that is too big a if....for me).

GFN

[Anonymous]

I do think she has helped a lot of people during her career and so that helps to restrain my guilt for not chasing her to her board of licensure.  I also think, she helped many, many who were in the exact opposite of my situation and that she could not empathize with me because of her own personal feelings and views.

I find it hard to believe she's helped anyone unless by accident. She is very abusive and sadistic. And if she can't empathize with you because of her personal feelings, she shouldn't be a therapist. That's the entire point of being one. She's evil.

Oh, you don't have to take her on. Possibly others have already complained about her, or will.  You would NOT lose your license for bringing her the meds. In these situations the patient is considered very vulnerable and isn't held responsible for what happens in a session. The therapist is held responsible.  I don't blame you for not taking action. But I hope she gets into big trouble.

bunny

[Anonymous]

Thanks Bunny.

I hope she gets into big trouble too.

GFN

[October]

October, are you sure you weren't a fly on the wall of my therapy sessions with this lunatic??

Thankyou for validating my experinece.  GFN

See one N you've seen 'em all!!!!  Lol!!!!!!!

You are welcome.  Glad to be of use.