Author Topic: Narcissistic Relatives  (Read 11345 times)

vunil

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« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2005, 06:26:31 PM »
Hi, PQC--

Welcome!  This is probably the only place where everyone will admit to having such nutty families.  And I must say, your family is impressively nutty.  They had to have really planned that ambush-- how did they even know when and where the funeral was?  Imagine the mental and physical energy that went into that crazy display.  Wow.  And I bet in their minds they were just ever so justified.  


I kept thinking when I read your story that they are REALLY mad at you for not doing what they want.  Really, really mad.   I posted a story a couple of pages back that is nothing compared to your story but that has the same feeling to it-- just blind fury at not getting their way.  They remind me of three year olds.  In a way they are.  I mean, showing up where they have not been invited and being surprised not to be welcomed.  And then shrieking like banshees and wondering why no one wanted to talk to them.

Why do they care so much?  Anyone know?  I guess they liked controlling you all and now they can't, but why not just find someone else to be mean to?   What is in it for them?

Anonymous

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« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2005, 06:34:53 PM »
PQC (thanks bunny),
Your post brings up an interesting question I was thinking about. I was going to start a thread but this one seems to be pretty close to my question already.

Does anyone here have a theory on why some siblings in families grow up batty and others are relatively normal? Why are PQC and her brother seemingly well adjusted (with some obvious scars) while their siblings are flaming Ns?
Why is my brother a classic case of NPD while the rest of us are relatively normal?
I really don't understand the dynamics at work here. Does birth order effect it? Apparently gender doesn't.

Bunny, you seem wise in all things psychological, any thoughts?
Brigid, Patz, others with whacko siblings, any idea why they turned out with Napolean complexes and we didn't?  :?  This one has me stumped.

mudpup

October

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« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2005, 06:41:11 PM »
...

Anonymous

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« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2005, 07:00:43 PM »
Quote from: Anonymous
Why is my brother a classic case of NPD while the rest of us are relatively normal?
I really don't understand the dynamics at work here. Does birth order effect it? Apparently gender doesn't.


Parents' and babies' interactions mold the baby's future ability to manage emotional states. Parents project their templates on the baby. The baby's responses affect the parent's reactions. Also the parent has pre-programmed responses from THEIR childhood. A parent projects emotional states on the baby; personality traits on the baby, future careers on the baby, and so on. The baby will internalize a lot of this stuff and it will have an effect on them.

All siblings don't have the same reaction to the parents' projections. They internalize the parental projections differently. And siblings have different genetic temperaments.

If you look closely at your brothers vulnerabilities and his acting out, you will probably see something from your parents in there. I'm not blaming them. But usually narcissism doesn't come out of nowhere.

bunny

Anonymous

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« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2005, 07:02:45 PM »
One thing: parents projecting on babies is not a bad thing. It's normal. But when you have a pathological parent, and/or something goes wrong in the attachment process, there's going to be a problem.

bunny

Anonymous

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« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2005, 07:11:50 PM »
Thanks bunny,
The problem is my parents wern't bad parents. Neither one was very demonstrative emotionally, but I always knew they loved us. My mom has a few issues but nothing serious, I don't think. They didn't mistreat us, in fact they were pretty darn good parents. I have really fond memories of my childhood. So I don't know where my brother picked up his NPD. Of course he is several years older than me so maybe there was something going on that I don't know about.
Its still a puzzler to me.

mud

Brigid

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« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2005, 07:18:07 PM »
Mudpup,

Quote
Does anyone here have a theory on why some siblings in families grow up batty and others are relatively normal?


I have often wondered this myself and as I said in another thread, I always thought I was a changeling in my family.  I don't pretend to have any of the psychological knowledge of some of the others on this board, but when I look at my brother and I (just the two of us, 10 years apart--I'm the wise, older sister, duh!) we could not be more different from each other.  I thrive on relationships, friends, lovers, etc.  He has only had one girlfriend in his life and that ended 23 years ago.  He lives alone and has no friends.  If I were him, I would shrivel up and die.  

My father was an a$$hole N to his family, but Mr. Charm to his friends and business associates.  My mother was an enabler with her own set of issues.  I can only think that my brother and I just have very different personalities that dealt with our family dynamics in very different ways.  Sorry I don't have anything more profound.  

Please tell me I'm the one who is relatively normal--whatever that means.
 :lol:  :lol:

Brigid

Anonymous

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« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2005, 07:28:20 PM »
Brigid,
Quote
Please tell me I'm the one who is relatively normal--whatever that means.
 

It means you're not an a$$hole N. It also means you thrive on people. You don't shut out the world because you're old man was a walking skunk cabbage.

Now get going on that vacation. I thought you already left. :wink:

mud

Anonymous

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« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2005, 07:30:58 PM »
mud,

It doesn't mean the parents are bad. But something happened in the bonding-attachment process that went south. Sometimes a child was traumatized during childhood, while by contrast his sibling feels he had a perfectly fine childhood. That's how the child internalized the experience.


bunny

Anonymous

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« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2005, 07:36:45 PM »
bun,
I wish I had a relationship with my mom to ask her what, if anything, went on during his first few years.
Thanks for the info though.

mud

Anonymous

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« Reply #25 on: March 23, 2005, 07:53:59 PM »
Dear PQC:

I don't believe I have seen such behavior in all my life!  How on earth did you ever survive in such a family!  Many have posted here and can attest to the fact we have real "nuts" in the family.  I have no idea why some turn out "ok" and others are full fledged Ns.  I have to admit  yours really " takes the cake" so to speak.  However, I must say, as I have related, that I also had a funeral epsiode as well.  The only difference is that the preacher decided that I need a proper "evaulation" of my "behavior" toward my n father.  I had not spoken to my father the previous eight years before his death.  The preacher decided I needed "correcting" in front of everyone for my behavior and "unforgiveness".  It was incredible.  PQC I can only say STAY AWAY FROM YOUR RELATIVES.  Anything you would do would make matters worse.  Make  your own life because you cannot fix these folks.  Just my 2c.  Patz

vunil

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« Reply #26 on: March 23, 2005, 08:50:16 PM »
re: Why one child turns out N and another doesn't:

I have two ideas.  One is that the child who is chosen to be thoroughly bashed, the one who is treated as if everything she does is hopeless, none of her ideas is valuable, etc., is less likely to turn out to be the N child.  This is because she doesn't get much chance to act out N impulses;  she isn't allowed to.  The child who is chosen to be the exalted one, or the co-N, is more likely to turn out N.

The other is that the development of N versus other qualities depends on early friendships. If the childs' peers early on are not fans of N behavior then they discourage it in the child, and the child learns other ways of acting. Peers have a big influence on kids.  If on the other hand the peers are themselves N-acting, then the child can't learn any new way and becomes more like the N parents.

Who knows? I think heredity probably plays a role, too.

If the parents aren't N, then I have no idea.  I always assumed that at least one had to be to make an N kid.  It's interesting that this might not be true.

Anonymous

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« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2005, 09:41:59 PM »
Welcome Promqueencasualty:

My family sounds similar, in ways, to yours, so I do feel like I can really relate to some of your experiences.  Mine were quite prone to ridiculous and embarassing outbursts, such as what happened at that funeral, only there might be violence thrown in for good measure.   All the freaking and hullabaloo is a bit like a tornado or a wicked storm, isn't it?   Then, it moves out and all is forgotten, as if it never happened (in their view).

All the big scenes and the chaotic psychodrama seem almost unreal and unimaginable sometimes.   These people really did track you like prey and are doing their best to put everything on you, so they don't have to look at themselves (I think that was already spoken of in this thread..was it Genuine?  I think so).  It's true.  If they can make you out to be the villan and stick together on that, then they will never, ever be inclined to shoulder even the tiniest bit of responsibility for the way things have turned out.  It's very handy for them to have you to hunt and shoot at.

Anyway....take comfort in the idea that your sanity is your biggest asset.  If you must take drastic legal steps to preserve it, so be it.  I'm glad you have an ally in your brother and sister-in-law.  That's a good thing.  You don't need the rest of them and their lunacy. :roll:

As to Mudpuppy's question of why one or other sibling(s) are N and others are not, I think there are more genetics/inherited traits in some than others.  :shock:  I don't really believe that all N's are always produced by environmental influences.  I do believe some things are inborn.  Some people's brains are born imperfect/with any number of health issues/problems.  My guess is that Nism has definate ties to genetics that have simply not been pin-pointed yet.  Maybe in time?  Who knows?

GFN

promqueencasualty

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« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2005, 10:22:38 PM »
Thank you all for your outpouring of support and encouragement---it truly means a lot to me. I, too, have often pondered the question of why my brother and I turned out so differently from our other siblings, and vunil, I think you might be on to something.

My brother and I are the oldest children in our family, and there is a big gap in age between the oldest and the youngest. For years, my brother and I talked about the presence of "two separate families" within our family. We may share the same DNA with the other three siblings, but we are WORLDS apart re: how we interact with the rest of humanity.

Our parents were extremely strict and punitive when we were young. Any minor infraction that my brother and I committed(like forgetting to say "please" out in public) was treated like a crime against humanity. Our parents were quick to remind us that THEY were in control---we were more like their subjects than their children. The prevailing parenting dynamic during those years was one of "good cop, bad cop," and the relationship we had with our parents was dictated by fear.

Vunil, what you proposed (re: the child reared in an oppressive environment being less likely to act on N impulses) really grabbed my attention. My parents were quick to put me down if they thought that I was conducting myself in a manner they found to be "inappropriate"(i.e., acting like a child my age, rather than the little trophy child automaton that they aspired to have). When we were growing up, our parents were on my brother and me like flies on poop.

When the other siblings arrived, our parents were that much older and they took a laissez faire attitude in rearing the younger kids. By that time, my father had also retired from his high-stress job and was far more approachable with the other kids than how he had been toward my brother and me. I would have to say that the absolute worst N in our family is my youngest sister. This is where the question of genetics comes in, because I can remember my sister from the very beginning of her existence, and as soon as she was old enough to have a personality emerge, she was a mean child. She took delight in gossiping about other family members and passing along hurtful information from one sibling to another("do you know what 'so-and-so' said about you?"). Because my mother indulged her(she was the "baby," and to this day, my mother still treats her this way), my sister's N behavior ran rampant, as it continues to do to this day. My other two younger siblings exhibit similar traits, but not nearly to the degree that my youngest sister does.

One thing still blows my mind: because our parents have projected their attitudes about my brother and me onto our younger siblings(i.e., their use of control and intimidation to try and get us to conform to meet their needs), our younger siblings obviously believe that they, too, have a right to use this approach when dealing with my brother and me. The obnoxious attitude of entitlement that they take with us is sickening, like my brother and I owe them something.

Mudpup, I appreciate your "suggestion" for my brother---believe me, I had the same thoughts!    ; )

Stormchild Guesting

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« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2005, 11:11:05 PM »
Hi PQC!

Wow. I can relate. Your Family of Origin (FOO, and wow is that appropriate) sounds even wackier than mine... and the two different families thing sounds just like the split between me and my younger sib. I was the one ruled with the iron rod, my sib on the other hand could come into the kitchen and tell my parents to go **** themselves - this was 35 years ago - and five minutes later demand, and be given, $20.00.

The cops brought my sib home one night in a drugged-out state and after they left, she pulled a knife on my folks... all of this around 2 a.m., I was home for the weekend from college and asleep when the cops arrived, the screaming after they left woke me. My sib had slashed my mother across the palm and my parents were just standing there like sheep. I tackled and disarmed my sib and handed her over to my father, then called the cops and had her taken away. Thank God I was over 21 and could do this. You realize... of course... my parents blamed **me**, once they got back from having my mother's hand stitched back together in the ER.

A year or so later they calmly announced that they'd made a will that disinherited me, because they knew I could take care of myself but my poor younger sibling was always going to have problems.

So yes, I know what family insanity is like! I'm glad you have your husband and his family as a refuge and antidote. It's a lot easier to stay sane when you're not standing on jello being told it's bedrock.

((((PQC))))