Medical Scrutiny

[FlowerGirl]

Dear All,

Firstly, i'd like to apologize for the erratic timings of my posts. Though it is no excuse, I have a relatively erratic work schedule that changes my availability to respond. But, rest assured I'm reading - and goodness knows some of your stories break my heart.

To Delphine's mom - we're all behind you. I wish I could send some sort of cheerleading squad to let you know..

Unrelatedly, I have recently been diagnosed with a relatively benign but persistent medical condition (nothing worth concerning over), and it brought up alot of memories of being diagnosed with things in the past.

The pattern was fairly straightforward. Nmom would notice (as part of constant scrutiny) that something was amiss. Generally something fairly bland (discrepency in hip height... ) and begin taking me into doctors. Sometimes, even my friends' parents, in the middle of play dates.

Usually, something that benign gets written off as "within normal specs", but I had to see 10 doctors for years before she let it go - never as "its okay", but more as "well, another thing wrong with you".  

It always felt like my fault that I wasn't perfect ("you were perfect when you were born!") and that it was life-shattering ("your husband will need to be understanding") etc. etc.   The cycle continued with a number of medical issues, most of which (thank G-d) aren't actually serious.

Did anyone else have wierd medical incidents with their Ns?

--FlowerGirl, whose self-confidence has suffered a blow by yet another thing "my fictional future husband" will need to accomodate.

[Anonymous]

Hi Flowergirl:

I havene't had weird medical experiences, as you have described, but I thought I'd pop in here anyway and say a couple of things.

First.....that must have been so confusing for you?
Always being shuffled to different doctors....looking for something wrong...never finding anything serious enough to satisfy your mother.

It's almost as if she wanted to find some major illness/defect in you.....but she couldn't!!  Phooey to her!!!  Too bad maamaa.  Your baby isn't sick.
She's way more perfect than you are and you can't stand it!!!  Too bad!!!

Maybe you were too perfect for her tolerance and she wanted to get some medical doctor to correct that for her????

Second......

It always felt like my fault that I wasn't perfect ("you were perfect when you were born!") and that it was life-shattering ("your husband will need to be understanding") etc. etc

She certainly tried to convince you of this eh?  Somehow...it was your fault.  That you were perfect when you were born but YOUUUUUU did something to imperfect yourself......and sooner or later......some doctor would nail it for her....eh?  She already had lot's of teeny weeny imperfections to point out in you.  But those dang doctors......if they could have only found something major wrong.....she would have been ok with that.

My guess is......because then she would have gotten attention.  Poor lady with the sick/ill child!   How can we help mama???  Phffflack!!!

And your future husband.....she was right about one thing......he will need to be understanding to be able to tolerate a mother in law like her!!!
  Won't he?

My 2 cents.

GFN

[longtire]

Is this Munchausen's(sp?) by Proxy?

[October]

Is this Munchausen's(sp?) by Proxy?

That was my thought too.    Worth investigating.

Meanwhile, Flowergirl, I'm sure you don't need me to tell you that there is nobody on this earth who is perfect in looks, health, intellect, physique etc.  I am sure we all have scars somewhere from childhood accidents, some of us have glasses, others have broken bones which are now healed etc etc.  This is part of being alive; it happens and we live with it or we get it treated and we recover.

Your mother's expectations were for perfection, which does not exist on this earth.  She was setting you up to be a failure every time you encounter doctors.  But doctors do not see their patients as failures; they see them as fellow human beings, perhaps with something to treat.

I took my daughter today to see a specialist consultant, who has listed a great long list of tests that he wants done on her, some here and some in London, to check out various aspects of her health - I told her she is having a full MOT!!  This is not because she is imperfect, it is because she has a situation to deal with, and these are precautions for conditions which might lead from it in the future.  

The funny thing is, afterwards she wanted to tell someone, so we went to my parents, Nmum and dad.  We told them and they listened, and then sat in silence.  They had nothing to say in support of her worry about all of this.  They had no emotional support to offer.  And I don't think they knew that there was anything missing.  

However, I am sure Nmum was spitting feathers inwardly.  Jealous as hell of all the attention on my daughter.  Not part of her script.  Now I am waiting to see how long it takes for her to take over the lead once more, in telling the family about this, to get sympathy for herself.  Meanwhile, I am treating her as a bit player in my daughter's and my life.  Which is what she is, this time.  

It sounds as if your mum was seeking a drama to play in, while also trying to project her imperfections onto you, because she could not admit that she herself fell short of perfection.  The comment about your future husband is intriguing.  Did her husband have to be understanding and longsuffering, by any chance?  My dad certainly did, and still has to be.  

[Stormchild]

Wow, GFN described the N-thinking in Munchausen's by Proxy just about perfectly, and Mum, you characterized it too. (Yea Longtire!)

Thinking about what you describe, FlowerGirl, and what GFN and Mum and Longtire said, and my own Nmom's really bad case of Munchausen's... I'm beginning to suspect that Ns take over any illness in their vicinity and exploit it to get sympathy for themselves, because they can't stand to allow anyone else to have attention for even a second.

If that's true, then they're all going to have this problem.

When they're legitimately ill or disabled, they'll milk it and make it worse if they can, either by exaggerating or by self-destructive behavior (not taking meds etc.)

And of course if someone else around them is ill, they're going to put themselves right in the middle, in front of the sick person even at the doctor's office, and they might actually go so far as to try to make the sick person worse in order to get more sympathy.

Eww yick ugh bleah, what an unpleasant train of thought. I'm almost sorry for having it. But it's hard to shake off.

Flowergirl, I really think GFN got it cold. Mom wanted to put you down, look good at your expense twice - here she is perfect in every way while you are defective, and isn't she a saint for taking care of such a defective child. Yecch pooie.

Off the wall question, rhetorical, don't need an answer: were you by any chance a pretty little girl, pretty adolescent, etc? Mom would have to throw some kind of mud on you if so, she couldn't stand the competition. Which is what it would be, to her.

BTW - good luck with your situation. When I feel defective, I think of Steven Hawking and Franklin Roosevelt and Helen Keller and Nanette Fabray (stone deaf, sang BEAUTIFULLY, acted on stage.) It helps me.

Mum, I loved your term 'spitting feathers'. Ick.

[FlowerGirl]

Dear All,

Thanks for the feedback. I guess I always thought other people's parents were just as neurotic about their childrens' health.

I dont actually think it is muchausen's - I think that involves actually hurting your child. My mom never hurt me. in fact, she used to be the opposite - overprotective. No M&Ms. you could die. Yellow #5.

October - I'm sorry to hear about your daughter. Is there anyone else you could take her to see to talk? an aunt or uncle? even her friends' parents? I used to find friend's parents very comforting (though I could never admit it to my own mom)

My nMom's birthday is coming up. I'm really dont feel like sending a gift. or going to see her. or even sending a card. "Thanks ma, for making me feel awful about myself, ever day. Love, your baby"

--FG

[longtire]

Myabe we could call it N-hausen's?  

[Anonymous]

My N-mother thought she was smarter than the doctors and that she knew more than the doctors.  She was always diagnosing "illnesses" in family members.  

When I was 13 she decided I had a thyroid deficiency.  She took me to four different doctors for tests.  Each time it turned out that my thyroid was fine but she knew better.  She would have continued taking me to different doctors but she couldn't pay for it so she had to stop.

Also, when I was 13 I developed a horrible cough.  Every time I laughed I went into a fit of coughing.  (Found out it was ear wax.)  Anyway, I begged her to take me to a doctor and she ignored me.  Finally, the week before school started I told her I would not be going back to school because I couldn't control the cough.  She finally gave in and took me to a doctor.

Everytime I was ill and needed to see a doctor I had to beg and cry to get her to take me.  One time I had strep throat so bad that I could hardly swallow.  She waited three days to take me.  Another time I had two impacted and abcessed wisdom teeth.

To the day she died she was still diagnosing and offering medical advice and herbal cures.  Actually she didn't offer them she tried to force them down the throat of the poor person she was diagnosing.  She actually tried to convince people that their doctors didn't know what they were doing.

She herself loved to go to the doctor.  It was the highlight of her week when she had an appointment.  Even better was to go to the hospital.  She would brag, "The paramedics insisted that I go to the hospital but I walked to the ambulance."  The hospital usually sent her home after an examination within a few hours.

I took her to the hospital several times.  She would be seriously ill and hardly able to breath.  In the hospital bed she would be laughing and smiling with the nurses--especially if they were male but of course she was still seriously ill.

This woman lived to the age of 98.

I think N's sometimes use illness (theirs or others) to gain attention.  I find it curious though that if I truely needed medical attention, I had to beg for it.  Also, when I was 21 I was hospitalized for seven days.  She didn't even come to see me.

I am not a registered poster--I guess you could call me a lurker.  But I will sign off with

Jona

[Kaz]

Hi FlowerGirl,
Can't say that I remember my Mum doing anything weird medically with me, but she has milked her own medical 'problems' ever since I can remember.
~Us kids were told by her that her rhuematic fever as a child had given her a bad heart. She had a full exam. prior to an eye operation and was found to be fit and healthy. (Here we were expecting her to keel over at any moment).
~she does have eye problems, a detached retina and glaucoma and other stuff and has recently been classified blind, but we've been hearing about how she's going blind for the last 30 years. Now that it has happened, I'm still suspicious. (She can still talk to me about what's she's seen on the TV).
~She's had several incidents where she's ended up in hospital, (fainting, hyperventilating, vomiting) but guess what? They can't find anything wrong! (I think, anxiety attacks, but she's always got some reason, a bug or something).

She loves the drama and she loves being at the centre of the universe. What N doesn't?

[Anonymous]

Hi everyone:

I find it curious though that if I truely needed medical attention, I had to beg for it. Also, when I was 21 I was hospitalized for seven days. She didn't even come to see me.

Oh Jona!!!    

Your mother didn't want YOOUUUU  gettiing the attention from the doctors that she was so greedy for!!!  Sick!  Sick!  Sick!    
 
It's a wonder you didn't get more seriously ill and I bet you suffered a lot more than you ever would have, had she taken you right away.  

I'm sorry that your mom was such a 9th degree N!!!

Not visiting you in hospital.......more of the same--not able to tolerate YOUUU there and not her......and that hurts you that she always came first!!!     I'm sorry that she was so mean to you.

Welcome to posting (vs lurking).  (((((((((Jona))))))))  I'm glad you did.

GFN

[Greta]

Flowergirl--I'm sorry to hear that this medical stuff is coming up for you. Going to the doctor still triggers anxiety for me, though not nearly as much as it used to.  I am the eldest, and my nmother chose me to dump all her health anxiety into.  I have an early memory of being taken to the doctor to have a mole removed from my leg--I was 4 or 5, and my mother was afraid it was cancer.  I learned to monitor my body constantly, and assume every slight variance or asymmetry was a sign of cancer or illness.  When my parents got divorced, and mother became unglued, my health anxiety surged--I was living with a family from my church for my senior year of highschool, and secretly going to the doctor every month for what I perceived as dangerous symptoms--a red dot on my lip, a mole that looked strange, a clicking sound in one hip.  

My younger sister was constantly having accidents, and when she fell off her bike and broke her arm, my mother refused to take her to the emergency room, because she didn't think it was broken.  If I had fallen off my bike, she would've called an ambulance.  In fact once I scraped my arm on the edge of a table and she took me to the ER for an x-ray--it took me years to realize that it wasn't my fault that the doctors were irritated that a girl with nothing wrong with her was in the ER.  There was no medical concern left for my sister.
 
I finally found a good therapist 4 years ago, and that has helped me tremendously--I was overwhelmed with anxiety about my body, which I used to defend myself from the even more painful emotional trauma of having nparents.  Therapy has given me my own life back.

I work in a hospital, which is difficult emotionally, a kind of repetition of my trauma--and as I get emotionally stronger, I hope I can find a job away from the medical world.  

Greta

[FlowerGirl]

Dear All,

Thank you *again* for the tremendous support. I can't explain how much it means to me.

Greta - my goodness. You are certainly brave to be in a hospital now. I really dislike medical settings - perhaps because of my history.

I'm intrigued to hear all these stories about different treatment of siblings. I can't remember my mom being quite so bad about my sister as with me. come to think of it, while neither of us were badly injured (thank G-d), my mom will complain about my sister's "over-anxiety" about her illnesses, whereas with me, she tends to push me to see more and more specialists.

Obviously, I think I will keep my current condition to myself.

There's something in your letter, greta, that resonated wiht me - the feeling that you are to blame for annoying the doctors, when, in fact, you were just a child.  I remember that feeling well. Like I was meant to get my insane mom to let it go. As though I even *could*.

By coincedence, I got a message today from nMom explaining a recent injury she sustained. it sounds SO overblown, but probably will result in months of complaint. Sound Familliar, anyone??

Again, thank you. thank you.

--FG

[October]

I am not a registered poster--I guess you could call me a lurker.  But I will sign off with

Jona

Hiya Jona, nice to meet you.  Your mum sounds dreadful!!  Sorry to hear about your experiences.  

Lurker or not, I am glad you have found this place.  Please post again, when you can.  

[vunil]

Wow-- talk about black humor.  These mothers are so nuts it's horribly sad and also weirdly funny-- just so over-the-top strange.  And these women so happy to ruin their children's lives    Now that I am going to be a mom I have developed LESS patience for bad parents (I had always heard I would develop more understanding, but I don't think the folks telling me that had heard of parents as bad as these!).


My mom would take me to the doctor, without me requesting it, for truly horrible flaws, such as a few pimples I had when I was a teenager (the horror!).  But if I were genuinely sick my parents never believed me.  I remember my father saying to me, when I told him I was too sick to go to school "well, we'll take you to the doctor and see if HE says you are sick!  Get dressed RIGHT NOW!"  This was when I was 16.  Sure enough, I had pleurisy.  But when they were wrong, they never apologized, they just got madder.  I also remember my doctor throughout my life through college was sexually inappropriate with me and my mother didn't believe me when I told her. It just made her mad.  Anything involving nurturing me or standing up for me was met with fury.

I think that this stuff runs in cycles.  My mother never allowed herself to be sick (and thought it was a big weakness if we were).  But her mother, another N of all time, was constantly having accidents. When I was born, she poured scalding water on herself and was unable to come help my mother.  Another big event (can't remember what it was now-- someone's wedding?) and she had a major car accident (she was driving) and broke her back.  Etc. I remember in her Christmas letters she would list all of her illnesses and accidents.

It breaks my heart to realize there is no area of life, even true sickness (and health) that these nutcase people do not corrupt.  No wonder we (or at least I) feel like we have to relearn almost everything!

[Stormchild Guesting]

Greta, I'm so sorry you and your sister had that horrorshow of a mother... I read your post earlier this morning and had to come back to the board because I can't get over wondering how on earth your sister is. When did she ever get proper attention for that broken arm, and how has the horrible difference in treatment between yourself and her affected your relationship?

This really hit me where I lived because my Nsib was the coddled spoiled favorite - in my eyes - all my life, and lord how I resented it; but I now think Nsib is an N because Nmom did such thorough indoctrination. I hope to god your sister and you still have a relationship despite your mother - if I missed words to that effect upthread, just smack me gently upside the head and tell me so.

But I can't get it out of my head, that poor little girl in such pain.

(((((Both of you)))))

PS - if you ever want to talk about escaping from healthcare related employment offline please PM me, I am wrestling with something very similar, possibly for similar reasons. Maybe we can see options thru brainstorming that we wouldn't see alone. Just an offer, I totally understand if you druther work on this privately.