What's your take on this?

[Anonymous]

mia:

I might be totally out to lunch, but I thought public records are just that public.  Anyone can access information inasmuch it is of public record.  How can anyone stop another person from obtaining information that is on record?  I mean aren't you allowed to go to the Clerk of Court and obtain property records, marriage records, etc.  If this is not true then everyone is in trouble according to this crazy N.

I am with the everyone else he is just trying to intimidate you.  Check with the lawyer on the record thing.  N's try to brow beat  you into submission.  Get what belongs to you Mia.  Patz

[Anonymous]

Mum
I know exactly what you mean about the PAS.  X N has never made reference to it but there is always the possibility that he will.

bunny
 

would not reply to any provocative, as he will know he pushed your buttons. I would keep him in the dark completely

You are right.  Normally I ignore X N but every once in a while I have a "flare up".  

Jaded

I would drop the N word first to the therapist

How can this be done without appearing to be a know it all?  I would love to drop the "N Bomb".  Should I wait until after he has met with the therapist a few times? She has indicated that she would like to have sessions with him and the children since the kids are having a difficult time adjusting to full EOWeekends at his place.

D's Mom
Thanks for the info.  I'll add it to my arsenal.

Patz
Public info is open to the public.  But it's irrevelant anyway.  I really don't care what he does with his spare time as long as it doesn't have negative consequences for the children.  He always has been paranoid but it is definitely getting worse in the last two years.  

Last night I had to drop off my daughter to his house after an activity (his weekend to have kids).  I arrived earlier then expected and he was still out with my son at the park.  I phoned his cell to let let him know.  He *went paranoid* on me.  He didn't want me sitting out front of his house.  He was about five minutes away.  I told him I would wait.  He called back two minutes later and wanted me to drive back to my house (over ten minutes away).  He sounded as if he was in a panic that I was in front of his home while he wasn't there.  He kept repeating, "No need for you to wait there, I'll pick up daughter at your place."  I asked, "You're five minutes away, right?"  His response, "Yes".  I said, "I'll just wait".  He kept stammering away and finally I got off the phone.  I guess he thought I was going to break in.  Who knows what was going on in that fragmented robotic mind of his.

My daughter was very upset about having to go to Dad's this weekend.  For the most part she is a gregarious child.  When I picked her up from school yesterday, as soon as she came out of the doors she started sobbing.  I thought something had happened in school.  She immediately starts pleading that she doesn't want to sleep over her Dad's house.  You can imagine how this made me feel. I told her that for the time being she will have to visit her Dad on his weekends...b/c the Judge ordered it...yada yada yada.  I hugged her but she was still very upset.  I reminded her that we were going to her Girl Scout activity together and then I would take her to Dad's.  She calmed down a little.

After the GS activity....as soon as we were in the car.....she began sobbing again....begging me not to take her.  When I ask her what's going on at Dad's to make her so upset she will say the following things:
*He treats us badly.
*He yells all the time.
*He blames me for everything.
*He doesn't let me play with M(brother).
*He tells me that he is going to "tell the therapist that I'm bad"......BECAUSE OF THIS COMMENT SHE DOESN'T THINK SHE WANTS TO GO TO THERAPY ANYMORE!  X N sabatoged daughter's last therapist by writing nasty letters to her and by questioning her credentials, etc.  Old therapist told me I need a therapist who is willing to testify in court and since she didn't do the "court thing" she didn't want to be involved in a quagmire.

During the GS activity my daughter was withdrawn from the troop (soooo unlike her) and others noticed.  My coleader asked me, "What's wrong with D?  Is she OK?"  It was visible that her mood was depressed.  How messed up is that?  A seven year old experiencing depression.  These are supposed to be her carefree years.  It makes me sick.

Thanks for listening to my rant.

Mia

[d's mom]

I mean aren't you allowed to go to the Clerk of Court and obtain property records, marriage records, etc.  If this is not true then everyone is in trouble according to this crazy N.

yes you are 'supposed' to be able to do lots of things but that -isnt- how it always works out. (in hundreds of cases with normal women who have jobs and money and social standing)

he may be a bumbling paranoiac but  still better safe than sorry.

[d's mom]

not to say i dont agree that email is bluster which i do.

[bunny]

X N sabatoged daughter's last therapist by writing nasty letters to her and by questioning her credentials, etc.  Old therapist told me I need a therapist who is willing to testify in court and since she didn't do the "court thing" she didn't want to be involved in a quagmire.

Not sure what this therapist means. The "treating" therapist can't also advocate for the child in court. They can only be a witness regarding their diagnosis, etc. They aren't considered an expert witness because of their duty to the patient. Another therapist is appointed to evaluate the child and testify in court. That's how I understand it.

Remember the one thing your ex can't control is that she won't be a minor forever.

bunny

[Anonymous]

Wow Mia...........he is really a nut case.  Bunny is correct, your children will not be minors forever................that is when the chickens really come home to roost.  He will be alone, to look into the mirror whenever he pleases and have all the time in the world to peek around corners to see if anyone is looking or listening to him.  What an N.  Patz

[Anonymous]

Not sure what this therapist means. The "treating" therapist can't also advocate for the child in court. They can only be a witness regarding their diagnosis, etc. They aren't considered an expert witness because of their duty to the patient. Another therapist is appointed to evaluate the child and testify in court. That's how I understand it.

Hi bunny.
I don't know what the detaileed circumstances were that caused my daughter's previous therapist to "resign".  All I know is that she received phone calls and letters from X N and she didn't appreciate his tone.  She said that she doesn't get involved in court (I never asked her or hinted either).  

During this time X N also *harrassed" the children's pediatrician with phone calls.  I happened to call the doctor about another matter and while he had me on the phone he advised that X had been calling there. The doctor was not pleased.  He told me that he and his partner would no longer take his calls and wouldn't expand on that.  X N stated in court that he felt that I caused the doctor to turn on him.  

Also, X N was phoning a program that the children belonged to and was harassing the administration.  The administration phoned me since I was listed as the contact persoon and advised that X N was calling there.  They did not release any info to him as he wasn't listed on the children's info sheet.  Apparently, X N kept calling them and calling them.  The administrator informed me that his office would not take any more calls from him and he already informed his staff to direct X N to the township solicitor if he was adamant about talking to someone.

Basically within a month's time, X N successfully alienated the therapist, the pediatrician, and a township program.  All of this was put on record for the court to see.

X N has stated on more then one occasion that I am conspiring against him with others (I have a few emails from him supporting this).  

He is definitely N but it seems that is paranoia is intensifying as of late.

Mia

[bunny]

I don't know what the detaileed circumstances were that caused my daughter's previous therapist to "resign".  All I know is that she received phone calls and letters from X N and she didn't appreciate his tone.  She said that she doesn't get involved in court (I never asked her or hinted either).

Maybe your ex threatened to sue her for malpractice so she got out of the situation entirely. She didn't explain it to you very well, as it left you with the impression that some therapists "do" court and others "don't." If they get a subpoena they don't have much choice. This former therapist can still be subpoenaed if your ex's attorney feels like doing that.

bunny

[Stormchild Guesting]

Mia -- you may be able to get a deposition from the pediatrician concerning the harassment by your X.

The doc does not have to come to court, and this can help your lawyer put the blame where it belongs, as well as helping to demonstrate that your X has a pattern of harassing the children's healthcare providers.

you might want to consult your lawyer about this.

[Anonymous]

Hi mia,
One thing that Ns do is the tit for tat game. If you call their bluff they raise the bet one notch. If you call that they raise it again one more notch, and so on and so on until their 'enemy' quits. They count on it.

Have you considered appearing to continue on the same path you're on while actually collecting as much evidence as possible for a nuclear strike against the creep. His whacko e-mails and all of his despicable behavior is all actionable in court if you so choose. And most of his behaviors probably constitute torts, which means he is liable for punitive damages. If you acquire enough evidence of witnesses and documents of his threats, intimidations, defamations, manipulations of your kids etc. You would be in a position to very possibly have the power to get him off your back, and possibly curtail his access to your kids. And with sufficient evidence you could probably find an attorney to do it on contingency.
It takes a big emotional and time consuming commitment but you've got 11 and 13 years to go until your little ones are out of his grasp. Thats a big emotional and time consuming commitment to be playing as well. And the whole time you will be playing defense and getting jerked around by the fruit loop.
Might be something to think about? Especially if he keeps getting worse; keeps harming your kids? Or at least maybe consult a personal injury attorney and find out what he/she says? Maybe?
Information on your options never hurts. You don't have to do anything with it, but at least you might know if you have any.(options that is)

mudpup

[Anonymous]

d's mom, patz, storm, bunny, and mud

Thanks for the feedback.

I document everything all the time regarding X N and his ability to be a parent.  I have to be careful in my presentation though to avoid the risk  of being viewed as a Mom who fosters PAS.

Mud, I am willing to try anything as my ultimate goal is to do away with joint custody.  Unfortunately, the Judges here aren't too keen on changing the status quo.  There has to be tons and tons of stuff to show that X N can not coparent.  Believe me, I am continually working on this.
My husband was saying something similar to what you are saying....just last evening.  He said for me to do whatever it takes...whatever the cost.

We'll see what goes.  Gotta run.

Thanks all.

Mia

[mum as guest]

Mia: just incredible what these guys do. It is frightening that there are so many similarities between our exes.....brrrrr.
     
 It breaks my heart to hear about your daughter crying.....mine does the same, and she's almost 13.   My ex undermined the last therapist by making him sign a form "never to tesify"...my new lawyer got around that in a way, however my daighter refused to speak to the therapist.  At all.  Both my children told me they do not want dad to know how they feel as they are terrified of his reaction....even my big 17 year old.  In this way, he keeps them silenced (voiceless, which is how I got to this board).

Another site to check out is thelizlibrary.org
I warn you though, you will need to process the negativity there or it will get to you ....got to me, and unfortunately got me to focus on how bad things could be....now I know how to let that stuff go.  There is lots of good information but  lots of frustrating things the "father's rights' people do to mothers..    Anna is correct: knowledge is power.  "Liz" has my favorite line, however, in taking on one of the sickos: "Bring it on Sparky!"

Hang in there, Mia... Focus on the goal....keeping your kids healthy and happy, getting emotionally away from this guy.  Don't let his crap take you off your path (I remind myself of this daily).
Sending you strength and light.
MUM

[Anonymous]

Feeling a bit depressed and defeated.

Therapist appears to be giving X N the benefit of the doubt.  I sensed this by a few comments she made to me yesterday. She met with him over the weekend.     I shouldn't be surprised since he always wears his mask and is Mr. Social/Mr. A$$kisser when he first meets someone.  So, I didn't show her the email or even mention it.  I'll wait.

Last night I sent X N an email telling him that my online account will no longer be active and for him to send all communication via US mail. I then deleted that Screen name.  I figure why make myself so accessible to his abuse.  Hopefully this will slow down/cut back on the amount of communication from him.

I just want to feel like I am not constantly at war.  I feel so beaten down today.  I know this will pass but I need a break.  I can tell I'm stressing b/c I have really been "OCDing" lately.  My house is so neat and clean you wouldn't even know I have two small children.  I need to chill.  I don't want to make my kids neurotic like me.  

My BIL told my husband last night on the phone that as an outsider he feels like we are "obsessing" over X N.  Of course, he prefaced his comment with, "Please don't get upset with me, I don't want you guys to look like the crazy ones."  He's right....we've become so consumed by X N.  He also said, "We all know the guy is nuts but don't let him control your lives."

Thanks for listening.
Mia

[bunny]

Mia,

While I understand that you don't want to receive abuse from this nutcase, there is a usefulness in his writing as possible, via email or letter. The more he writes, the more people will be able to question him about what he wrote, reading back his quotes. And let him leave nasty phone messages that get recorded.

I am disheartened and bummed out by therapists who are easily duped by the charms of a sociopath. The minute a t sees "charm" in a divorce/custody situation she should also see a red flag. Not only that, but if the kid(s) are upset, acting out, crying, doesn't that say something about daddy??    But she won't be the expert witness in this case if your child(ren) are her patients. At least I pray not.

As for your husband, I would imagine that he doesn't like a lot of energy going toward another man, even if it's negative energy. And that is understandable. He may have a point that obsession isn't even helpful here. But anyway you can obsess to us.

bunny

[bunny]

Oops, I just saw it was your BIL who said you were obsessing, not your husband. Sorry. Is he a nice person, or not very supportive?

bunny