I know he's an addict..is he a narcissist too?

[Brigid]

Dear Wiish,
Welcome to this board.  I'm very sorry for what you are going through.  I can relate to most of what you have experienced.  My N H of 23 years (we have been separated for 18 months and hopefully are close to divorce) started having an affair with a younger, married woman that he met through work.  He is not a drug addict or alcoholic that I am aware of, but he has always been a party boy and one of his reasons for leaving was to have more fun.  My husband's addiction is a sexual one.  Not having sex with me--that hardly ever happened--but using porn and having sex with himself.  That has been going on for most of our marriage, but I had no idea.  He was lying about his disinterest in sex, blaming it on being tired, stressed at work, medication, blah, blah, blah.  I am attractive, in shape, still weigh the same as I did when I graduated from high school (I am 54 now) and take good care of myself.  He was the one with the weight problems, but I never said anything or gave any indication that it bothered me.  Of course, once he got the girlfriend he went on a weight loss program, started working out, whitening the teeth, tanning and of course, the dead giveaway, bought new underwear and went from briefs to boxers.

I was shocked just as you were by the announcement that my H wanted to leave our marriage.  I lost 12 pounds in 6 weeks because, like you, I couldn't swallow food.  It wasn't until I got on some anti-psychotic drugs, that I was able to start eating and regaining my strength.  I have 2 children, 16 and 20 who spend very little time with their father and his support comes in the way of money only.  My daughter got confirmed at church tonight, and he did not bother to show up.

I hired the best attorney I could get (my H wanted to hire him, but I got to him first     ) and we're still fighting through it.  In fact, we go to mediation on Thursday and I am asking all my friends here to say a prayer for me that I get what I am deserving of and I can walk away and be done.  He continues to lie about his business income and can get away with it because he is self-employed and in business with his father.

I could relate to much more of what you said, but I think you get the idea.  I will say that life does go on and things get better and you will eventually realize how much better off you are without him.  All cliches right now, but true nontheless.  I have started dating again and see hope and light at the end of the tunnel.  I pray you do as well.

God bless,

Brigid

[bludie]

Wiish,
As your friend on this board and in life, I am sending you many healing thoughts. I am truly sad and sorry you were not able to share your first day of work with your N (and, yes, the more I think about it, the more he fits the profile as bunny indicated).

PLEASE, PLEASE try to do yourself a favor and not share your inner most thoughts with him. At the very least, as you pointed out, he will simply be indifferent, disinterested or callous. However, in the future as you proceed with your divorce he could also use demonstrations of your vulnerability as legal manipulation and/or emotional blackmail.

Hang in there. Keep posting. You belong here.

Love,
bludie

[Brigid]

Wiish,
One more thing I wanted to comment on regarding the similarities in our situations is the immaturity of the spouses.  I honestly think that the life-changing event that pushed my H to want out was when our son decided to attend the same university that my H attended and he started thinking about how much fun that time in his life was and he was actually jealous.  He will be 50 soon, but he pretends he is 20 and wants to live his life like he is.  I would be talking about how much I looked forward to the day when we would be grandparents and have the whole family together for Christmas and he would be thinking that he was never going to be old enough to be a grandparent (same thing his 86-year-old N father thinks).  His idea of fun became hanging out in bars and clubs with loud, pounding music and hanging out with people in their 20's.  My therapist explained (he saw both of us in therapy for 6 weeks and was the one to explain that my H is an N) that he is an emotional teenager who has rebelled and run away from home--among many other dysfunctions.

One other item regarding the sex (or lack thereof).  I have mentioned this on other threads that because of my N's immaturity, he viewed me as a mother figure rather than his wife and emotional equal.  Another reason he could not be sexual with me--who wants to have sex with their mother.

I always got the same stuff about how he wasn't good enough so I would feel sorry for him and tell him how wonderful he was, a good husband, a good father, whatever.  I was his defender and biggest advocate to his father (H very intimidated by him), his business associates who just saw him as the boss's son, and all the other people who couldn't understand why I was with such a lazy, incompetent jerk.  

With time and distance, you begin to see all this stuff more clearly.  You are still in the shock phase and that takes awhile to get through.  I hope you are getting some therapy and meds if you need them.  It really helps.  I also joined a divorce support group at my church and that has been very helpful as well.  Concentrate your efforts on protecting your children from this man.  They are old enough to make their own choices about spending time with him.  He is obviously corrupting them with his harmful behaviors and you don't need any more to deal with right now.

(((((((wiish)))))))

Brigid

[Wiish]

I just want to post really quickly how much I love this board and how much your insights have been helping me work through this junk.  Going to do a real post later, but just wanted to send a general thanks to you all with love,

[Anonymous]

Meant to get in here sooner and post more, but got busy at WORK and didn't, so....having a fairly empowered day actually.  I am working for a medical transport company..do office work and scheduling and today they sent me on a couple of runs...had to do a lot of driving around places that H and I had been together and I felt myself getting ready for a good tailspin and then I really thought about it and got to thinking how many times I had driven down those roads with him with tears in my eyes because I had so much to say and so many things weighing heavy on my mind and heart , but I couldn't verbalize them becasue that would have gotten into the whole "it's my fault I am crying, you are a good husband" dance...and I really focused on that and have made it through the day with the odd twinge here and there, but no hysterical sobbing and a sense (at least for today) of moving forward.  I'm not saying I am over the hump, but the hump is getting more manageable.

So, my plan for life at this point is to get past this mess and live well.  

And for today at least, H is cordially invited to bite me.

[Stormchild Guesting]

And for today at least, H is cordially invited to bite me.

HOO-rah!!!!!!!!!!!! You GO girl.

         

[Anonymous]

New insight...after visiting with our son on Tuesday, H and I sat down and had a talk.  I took the opportunity to be very precise about what I thought about the ox-woman..there may heae been specific body parts and what could be done with them involved..who knows..I was on a roll and if felt good.

But then we get to the crux of it...the lying and the drinking.  His logic(?) for why he has done all of this is because my son 21 year old son who was staying with us and our friend who is still with us drink and get high and that IT ISN'T FAIR THAT HE CAN'T DO WHAT EVERYONE ELSE CAN DO IN HIS OWN HOUSE.  So, rather than be honest and admit the drinking/drugging/relapsing/lying is a problem, he would rather go live in a shack with ox-woman and make me think that she was in catalyst. PUH-LEEEEZE.....His logic for throwing away his family and home is the same as my fifteen year old's for not cleaning his room...geezopete....

Wiish

[vunil as guest]

IT ISN'T FAIR THAT HE CAN'T DO WHAT EVERYONE ELSE CAN DO IN HIS OWN HOUSE

I suppose if an infant were in the house he would insist on wearing diapers.

Perhaps you should ask him if he would like you to read him "Goodnight Moon" before he goes to sleepies tonight.


Jeez Louise.  What a baby.  


Not to mention since he is the DAD (oh my what a concept) his job is to stop his son from doing stupid things, not to feel jealous of him for "being able" to do them.

I suppose I'm saying the obvious....

I'm glad your kids have a grown-up to learn from-- if they learned only from him they would be in big trouble.

Why talk to him?  He does make for funny posts, but he is just about the most aggravating person alive, so avoiding him might save your sanity.  Let the new mommy deal with him.

[Anonymous]

I have to talk to him cause we have our son in common and also because I need to keep him blithely ignorant of my growing anger until I get the quit claim on my house signed.  We have to do the divorce pro se because neither of us can afford a lawyer..I went and bought a divorce kit that I am hoping to make some progress on this weekend.  We agree on everything at this point...I get the house and about 20,000 worth of antiques and anything else in the house...I also get a home equity debt of about 27,000 which I am hoping to eliminate with his mom's antiques. He will pay 250 per month child support.  He gets his personal effects, some well-packed sentimental zingers and 20,000 in credit card debt on cards that my name isn't on anymore.  At this point we are still being decent to each other and hoping we can maintain that for the duration.  

I like the baby/diaper thing..lol..might save that one for an opportune moment...

Wiish

[Anonymous]

Wiish,

If your goofus husband lets you out that easy I think its safe to say he is not an N.
He's a pretty awful husband and father. Ok a really awful one, but at least he's not trying to control you while he gores his ox, to coin a really repulsive phrase.
He has some N traits but no NPDer would just walk off and cut a fair deal.
Beware however, does he have a history of making reasonable offers like this and then yanking them out from under you? Now that would indicate an N.
Not much of a silver lining if he isn't an N, but at east you could have a chance to start rebuilding your life instead of an endless series of infantile
provocations.

mudpup

[Brigid]

Mudpup,
I wouldn't be so quick to state that he is not an N.  Not all Ns use anger and vindictiveness to manipulate their victims.  My NH did not demonstrate those traits.  He manipulated through charm, humor and a lot of self-deprication.  I think because he was so intimidated by his father and was never able to break free of that because he went into business with him, that anger was something he could never use to get his way.  IMO the n personality must find the methods that work best for them to get what they need.  I think a better test of the n personality would be the lying, lack of empathy and total disregard for their fellow human beings.  I guess that's just what I have learned from my therapist.  But it could be that this man is just a class A jerk.

Brigid

[longtire]

Brigid, I second your post.  My wife was NEVER allowed to express anger to her mother growing up, so she has learned ALL MANNER of less observable (deniable) behaviors to try to get what she wants.

[Anonymous]

But then we get to the crux of it...the lying and the drinking.  His logic(?) for why he has done all of this is because my son 21 year old son who was staying with us and our friend who is still with us drink and get high and that IT ISN'T FAIR THAT HE CAN'T DO WHAT EVERYONE ELSE CAN DO IN HIS OWN HOUSE.  So, rather than be honest and admit the drinking/drugging/relapsing/lying is a problem, he would rather go live in a shack with ox-woman and make me think that she was in catalyst. PUH-LEEEEZE.....His logic for throwing away his family and home is the same as my fifteen year old's for not cleaning his room...geezopete....

I can understand his taking zero responsibility because he is a full-blown, narcissist addict.  One q I have is, are your 21 year old son and a family friend allowed to drink/drug in your house? Shouldn't that be off-limits to them too? Maybe I'm misunderstanding the situation.

bunny

[Anonymous]

I don't know if he is a N or not...I don't know if the behavoir is a result of alcoholsim or of the alcholism is the result of the behavior.  When he is sober, he is a very kind and thoughtful man...well..when he is not in alcoholic mode, that is..I mean, even now, he has moments of what could be called kindness, but the pervasive thing is that he is willing to give everthing that he has worked for for the last ten years for the right to drink and take drugs.....so I guess alcoholism is probably the dominant issue.  He did have a matched set of alcoholic parents and after his mother died, his mother treated him like a bad investment (he was adopted and she never wanted a baby.)  My feelings toward him are of incredible loss for the person that I know is on the other side of all this garbage because that is the man I married...and pity for what he is doing to his life and for what this is all going to do to him down the road, should he ever have a moment of clarity or honesty.  The cheating is a by=product of the drinking thing and I personally believe a "create-a-crisis" masterstroke to force the issue and do something so horrible that in his eyes there is no going back.  He knew that if I found out about the drinking that that would be a HUGE problem and he didn't want to confront THAT problem so he created another one he thought that I would see as unforgiveable.  

I did ten years with him drinking and could never go back there and he knew that.  If he let our marriage break up over drinking, he would have to admit he had a problem...the cheating let him maintain his denial.

[Anonymous]

trying to determine whether the problem is alcoholism or narcissism is like trying to figure out which came first, the chicken or the egg. I suppose the main issue now is, does he acknowledge his addiction and want to recover? If the answer is no, I'd get him to agree to everything during this window of opportunity when he's feeling a bit guilty and ashamed. He could do a turnaround and become bitter and angry and stubborn. Sorry...

bunny