people with mood disorders exceptionally susceptible?

[Brigid]

October,

I do not know if my SIL is N or not. But she is not maternal, if you know what I mean by that.

I very much know what you mean by that.  My SIL (H's sister) is the same way.  She has 2 teenage boys that have not been "normal" boys from the day they were born.  She has always hovered over them and worried about them being injured, kidnapped, whatever, but in a cold, distant way.  The younger one is 16 and acts like he is 10 and the older one is graduating from high school and very brooding.  They both have very limited friends.  For whatever reason (probably because my SIL won't let him), my BIL does not interfere with the raising of those boys.  I would term her mothering as mechanical and devoid of true feelings and emotion (I guess that would make her just like her brother).  

They will probably turn out in the category with the men who disdain women, and never have a true intimate, emotional attachment since they haven't been taught how to.

Brigid

[Anonymous]

mudpup,

I'm kind of depressed that you are encountering all these bitter, angry, hardbitten people who deeply distrust the opposite sex. One of my woman friends used to express irrational hatred toward men. I finally told her that I didn't want to hear it anymore.  Somehow she now likes men. Maybe it helped that I (and perhaps others) didn't cater to her crap but challenged it and refused to even listen to it. Some of these people have never been challenged and always received agreement and sympathy. That gives them even more reinforcement for their stupid views.

bunny

[October]

For whatever reason (probably because my SIL won't let him), my BIL does not interfere with the raising of those boys.  I would term her mothering as mechanical and devoid of true feelings and emotion (I guess that would make her just like her brother).  

Brigid

My nephews are all very close to their dad (my brother) rather than their mum.  They are all quite anxious too, and hate to spend time away from home, but that could be for lots of reasons (my daughter is the same, so maybe it is a family thing.   )

The funny thing is, SIL is very detached from the mothering side.  So much so that if I am in the house and something happens, I take over what I would regard as the mothering bit.  The checking if they are ok, commiserating on bruises or cuts, spending time being with them, and acknowleging their pain/feelings/whatever else, and then wrapping up by playing and some positive comments on how well they are doing.  If someone did this in my house with my daughter I often think I would be resentful in some way, but SIL doesn't even seem to notice, to be honest.  

I do not think I am there enough to make much of a difference or an impact, but then again, a little love goes a long way so perhaps ...  

[mudpuppy]

Hi bunny,

Try not to be depressed by it. I mean, just because those are the people I have run into doesn't mean it changes your world any. Maybe you are in a sweet spot where there aren't as many goof balls.

There is also the possibility that, given the malleability of human behavior, depending on its environment, that many of the men who say they believe in the inferiority of women may only be saying it because they think that is what they're supposed to say around a bunch of guys. Maybe the untrue part of their two facedness (new word?) is when they're around the other guys and they're being honest when they treat women with respect. Could very well be.
Peer pressure certainly doesn't stop at adolescence. And the peers who exert the most pressure in a group are often the biggest chumps with the strongest opinions, so maybe its better than I think. I hope so.
I admit to being a might cynical about human behavior. But I'm also an optimist. I'm not sure how to reconcile those two things but its fun trying.
Next time I hear one of these goofs I'll use your technique and tell him to clam up. Maybe it will open his eyes. Or close one of mine.

mudpup

PS. I couldn't quite grasp what you were saying about your friend.
Does she really like men now or do you think she just changed her tune because you disapproved but hasn't really changed her attitude?

[b as guest]

Next time I hear one of these goofs I'll use your technique and tell him to clam up.

You have my support! It's disrespectful to your wife, for one thing. even if he's not directly referring to her.

As to my friend, she was ambivalent about men. Part of her hated them and part of her liked them. She irritatingly focused on the negative side. I kept reminding her about the men we knew who were nice. I tried to give her permission to like men. Her attitude has changed.  IMO when we see someone with a polarized attitude toward the opposite sex, it's more about ambivalence. Some men are unconsciously fearful of becoming weak, dependent, and trapped/suffocated by women; and some women are unconsciously fearful of being oppressed, subjugated, and aggressively attacked by men. On the flip side, men unconsciously long and yearn for tender attachments to women; and women unconsciously yearn and long for dependency and protection from men. But these vulnerabilities are too terrifying for a lot of people, so they defend against them by devaluing the opposite sex.

bunny

[Anonymous]

bunny,

It's disrespectful to your wife, for one thing. even if he's not directly referring to her.

You're right, I never really thought about it that way before. Maybe I'll close one of his eyes.

IMO when we see someone with a polarized attitude toward the opposite sex, it's more about ambivalence.

I couldn't agree more. Except for the actual haters, almost all these guys who devalue women would be blubbering babies if their wife or GF left them. On the one hand they don't mind putting women down in general but at the same time they are often the most dependent and hopeless men without a woman around you could ever want to meet.

Maybe the dependence and need creates the desire to act superior?

mudpup

PS. How'd you get so darn smart?

[Anonymous]

Maybe the dependence and need creates the desire to act superior?

Dependence and need evoke massive anxiety which is managed and controlled by the superiority. When you block a man from his usual devaluing of women, he will feel very anxious and try to devalue you instead. Just ignore it.

bunny