The meaning of life ???

[Anonymous]

So, how is it best to survive?  Which should we teach our children to be?  Should we sell our souls and join in with everyone else, or continue as we are, lone voices in the wilderness?  Perhaps it is not a choice at all.  We have to be who we were born to be, as far as we can achieve it.

Here's what I would teach them:

--Help them develop their unique identity so that they are okay on their own. They'll always feel relatively autonomous and self-sufficient.

--Help them develop social skills so that they can get along with others and develop boundaries.

--Give them emotional management skills so that they don't feel every situation as a catastrophe. This makes them feel the world is relatively manageable.

--Teach them that not everyone is benign and how to protect themselves. (boundaries)

--Be honest with them (age appropriately) about the evil and destruction in the world and immediately bring up ways to help improve it - recycling, charity, good deeds, that kind of thing makes kids feel less despondent.

--Give them a moral foundation by teaching them values, ethics, morality, without being righteous about it.

--Be a good role model.

I could go on but you get the picture.

bunny

[delphine]

October, you said
 

I am no saint, but compared with people around me, I feel like - well, homo sapiens surrounded by neanderthals.

If I go a bit too far outsde my "oasis" of personal friends it looks like that to me also. I happen to live in a very hip progressive town but when I go outside the city limits here its a whole other mentality.
You posed some provocative Qs

So, how is it best to survive? Which should we teach our children to be? Should we sell our souls and join in with everyone else, or continue as we are, lone voices in the wilderness?

My personal strategy is to ban together and network. I found a church whose basic intent is to train community and environmental activists in our youth. We network with other like minded churches and community groups. I try to teach my daughter both to realisticly observe the way the world is and to speak powerfully into that world, to move people towards a more cooperative vision.
The lone voice thing sucks!! And selling your soul seems like it could backfire, but wait!! How much could I get for one slightly used soul?? (kidding)

But after I met my wife, I have never felt alone since then. Even when far away from her, I can feel her presence. I guess most couples aren't like this? I don't know maybe they are. Anybody else feel this way?

Mud, that's what I mean by finding a few intimate friends but it seems that has to be built, that it is not given to us, wheras the loneliness is.
I, too, feel the presence of the Divine in my life I just don't see Her blessings out there in the world as much as I see the pain and victory of the souless. Perhaps this is more a function of the press though which loves a war and never tells us the everyday wonders that acts ofkindness bring.

Delphine

[Anonymous]

Delphine,

I, too, feel the presence of the Divine in my life I just don't see Her blessings out there in the world as much as I see the pain and victory of the souless. Perhaps this is more a function of the press though which loves a war and never tells us the everyday wonders that acts ofkindness bring.

You say She, I say He, you say tomato, I say tomotto.
I think it goes much deeper than the press. There are plenty of societies with no press at all and they're just as full of wife beaters and abandoned children as ours.
I believe what Jesus said; evil rules this world. It seems self evident to me. It is pervasive.
That is why I have hope in the blessings of a better world after this one. This one seems pretty much unbearable without  that hope.

Daylily,
Beautifully put as usual. I believe the mindset you speak of is directly related to what Delphine was speaking of. The way most people react to a soulless existence is to grab as much of what they can lay their hands on, whether its their's or their neighbor's. This is a substitute for having some meaning to their lives.

mudpup

[Anonymous]

Hi all:  This is an interesting discussion!

In adddressing the title of this thread, I think this life is just like one big test.

We know, for the most part, what is right and what is not.   We have free will to choose our behaviour.  We have many experiences which generate thoughts and feelings and we learn by those experiences, by what we think and feel, and by our choices.

The more often we choose right/kind/generous/lovingly/good/etc.....the more points we score.  When we make poor choices, especially out of anger/to feel power/because we are being lazy/or to intentionally cause harm ......we lose points....in a big way.

There is a release clause that allows for us to stay the course by facing consequences/feeling and expressing remorse/taking responsibility and making amends for the things we do wrong.....which gives us forgiveness (and some or all of our lost points are regained).

The world may be a wicked place, sometimes, but there are many, many who are not wicked here.  The behaviour of societies in general may be bad, sometimes, but there are always those who fight for change.   It's tempting to do what's easy but not always good or right.  Some have more hardship to endure and who strive to do/be/give better to the world/other people.  Some have gifts and share readily.  All of these and more may accumulate bonus points.

Those with plenty who hord.....those with opportunity who are thankless... those with gifts who flaunt  etc......may lose more points quicker.

There are very few saints (compared to the general population) but there are some.   There are plenty of temptations and hardships and some who refuse to do the test (so they ignor the rules and do as they like).  

For me it's a matter of dodging those who are behaving... not so nice and seeking out those who are behaving fairly well.  And sometimes I mess that up real good too.     Either I misjudge or fail to risk or simply choose poorly.  Not always....but sometimes.

Mistakes......are inevitable due to being human.....and will be totalled
into the finals....depending on severity.  Big mistakes that hurt ourselves tend to cost more in this life, than they do in the next, (is my guess), and those that really hurt others....well.....there has to be payment some where/some time/some place....somebody is going to lose points.

In the end......it will all be tallied up and rewards will be given accordingly.

GFN

[Anonymous]

Uhhh,

In my last post there is a reference to a post by Daylily.

Either, in descending order of concern:

1.She deleted it while I was posting mine.
2.I read it on another thread and thought it was here.
3.I am suffering from delusions and need to be hospitalized.

I hope someone can help me with this, cause I know I read a very nice post by Daylily. Did anyone else?
Daylily, have I lost my proverbial marbles, and if so could you help me find them?

a confused mudpup

[delphine]

well, make hospital reservations for 2 because I also swear I read a really provocative post by Daylily on materialism.
I liked your post a lot, Day, I hope your didn't intentionally delete it!

Delphine

[daylily]

I liked your post a lot, Day, I hope your didn't intentionally delete it!

Wow, this board moves fast.  I deleted it because I thought perhaps it could be misconstrued as being too critical--which certainly wasn't my intention.

But thanks very much for your comment.

daylily

[daylily]

Daylily, have I lost my proverbial marbles, and if so could you help me find them?

Sorry, mudpup.  I deleted it because (as I said below, before I read your post--I sometimes start from the back on threads I've already visited) I thought it might be a bit too critical.  I certainly didn't want to offend anyone with my opinionated ramblings.

Thanks for the comment, and again, sorry for the confusion.

daylily

[mum]

At the same Bat Mitzvah I was at on Sat. eve, at the big party afterwards, my almost 13 year old suffered her first heartbreak from a boy.
She did not tell me, as the kids and adults pretty much ignored each other, as they should in those situations, but I knew something was up on the way home.  At 1:30 in the morning she came to me crying, and told me the tale of woe.  She was miserable all Sunday, and apologized profusely for "wrecking" my mother's day.  I told her in all honesty, that being there for her, having her share her feelings with me, was the best kind of mother's day present possible.

What does this have to do with the "meaning of life"?  This IS the meaning of life.  Love.  It is a simple word and a simple philosophy.  It is our divine purpose, it is our promise.
Love ourselves enough to know we can heal others.  Love others enough to know they can be healed.  Love this life enough to find these experiences.  Those of us on the recieving end of pain dumping by N's have a giant size gift wrapped package of learning in that pain.  It's huge for many of us.  But it is such amazing learning....if we figure THIS out, imagine what life will be like for us!!!!  There will be no stopping us!!
So we have an added burden (or gift) of finding love, of transforming pain.  But we will really know what we are doing when we "get it"... It's about awareness.  We are waking up.

October: I know you have a close and loving relationship with your daughter as well.  This is where we need to put our focus, on that which is loving in this world.  If we make the choice to put our focus on that which is negative, then that is what we will see, and we will, out of habit, see more and more of that.  
On this planet, there is evil and there is good....love and fear. Spending our precious energy concerned with all the "negative" will simply beget more negativity.  The negative "wins" as it were, by getting us to focus on it.  Acknowledging that it exists but that positive does as well, can help, however this "duality of life" type of focus can inspire what Rosamund Stone Zander and Benjamin Zander (in their book "The Art Of Possibility") call the "Downward Spiral Talk".  ("Well, this good thing could happen, but then this roadblock will go up, etc, etc, so what's the point?")

Focusing on possiblility and positive energy is actually a choice....that becomes a habit.....that brings to light positive energy, that reinforces our change in focus, our perception.....that creates and heals, rather than destroys and hurts.
In buddist teachings we are asked a question: will I continue to add pain to the world or will I transform it, and heal instead?  It's a good question: will I give back more of what I got (negative) or will I learn from it and transform?
To take pain, learn from it, transform it, no matter how many times we get kicked into the mud, is what this life is about.  It is not about winning, or having the "best" deal out of life.....it's about love.  Love can come from pain.  It's a choice.  Put your focus where you want.  Everybody's life sucks....and everybody's life is beautiful.  It's what you percieve.

[October]

I certainly didn't want to offend anyone with my opinionated ramblings.

Thanks for the comment, and again, sorry for the confusion.

daylily

I for one would love to read what you have to say, Daylily.  I would even put money on not thinking afterwards that it is anything like opinionated ramblings.  

[October]

What does this have to do with the "meaning of life"?  This IS the meaning of life.  Love.  It is a simple word and a simple philosophy.  It is our divine purpose, it is our promise.

(and whole post)

Thanks, mum.  What a lovely post.  You are right; I do focus on my daughter, and she gives me a reason to look after not only her but also me as well.

I suppose if everyone else is right and we are wrong, we are at least well intentioned, and well meaning.  And I would rather be on the side of such people as the Dalai Lama, rather than on the side of the materialists.  I think.  

[Brigid]

I finally got around to reading all of this thread and just had a couple of comments.

Mudpup,

The first 30 years of my life I was alone and felt it.
But after I met my wife, I have never felt alone since then. Even when far away from her, I can feel her presence. I guess most couples aren't like this? I don't know maybe they are

.

I don't think most couples are like this.  Sad, but true.  Your wife is a very lucky lady.  I dream of having someone who feels this way about me.  As I am having to deal with the realization that not one single man in my life (except my son who technically is a man now) has ever really loved me, it is hard to imagine that it will ever be different.  I have to have faith that it is not that I am unlovable, but that I was not given the tools to choose a man who is capable of a loving relationship.

As far as the "meaning of life" goes, I think we must live by the code that is in our hearts and minds.  If you are a good person, with good values, a positive moral code, and have your values in the right place, that is the way you should live your life and the example you should set for your children.  We can tell our children until we are blue in the face what to do and not do, how to behave, what behaviors to avoid, etc., etc., but we then must demonstrate that on a daily basis.  If we screw up (and we all do), we need to take responsibility for that and apologize.

We can't keep the blinders on and be naive about the realities of the world and the people in it.  There are many bad, stupid, insensitive, money-hungry folks out there that have the ability to do a little or a lot of harm.  We need to know how to recognize that and teach our children the warning signs as well.

I choose to associate myself on an intimate level with those who share like values and have minimal contact with those who don't.  That is easier for me than for many of you because I don't work outside the home (although that may be changing soon), but you can still choose which co-workers to have more than a professional relationship with.

I don't think I could live with myself if I chose to live my life only to grab what I could for myself and to hell with the rest of the world.  I have watched my H do this for the last 20 months and it sickens me.

Brigid

[cat]

I agree that the meaning of life is to love.  Although never married, nor with childen, I look at my life and wonder what the entire meaning of my life is.

The people that have had the greatest impact in my life are mentors:  women not married, who consider me their child and pour their lives into me.  A young man, I briefly dated, before he died, certainly left his imprint in my life.

I think an important thing to do would be to look at that sappy holiday movie:  "It's a Wonderful Life".  What would have happened if you never were on this earth?

For myself, I know that my life carries forward those people who mean the most to me.  As for that young man, I carry his memory with me everyday.  I am a better person for having had him in my life.

Some relationships in life are bad, my mom.  However, it does help me relate and be a sounding board to others who don't have perfect parents.  When my relationship with mom gets too bad, I can either write here, or talk with those who have used me as a sounding board.

I personally think that everything passes away. . . . however the relationships we have last forever.

[Anonymous]

Hi all,

Daylily,

I certainly didn't want to offend anyone with my opinionated ramblings.

I think the only person who could have been offended by your post would have been some self absorbed, ravenous wolf of a materialist; you know, an N. And if we can't offend Ns here, of all places, then we might as well close shop and board up the doors.

Brigid,

Your wife is a very lucky lady.

Thanks, but I think you got it backwards.

I have to have faith that it is not that I am unlovable

Of course it isn't. Your loveability quotient is off the scale. That comes through whenever you speak. You just haven't met the man who could appreciate you, yet. A sixty something year old gal in our singles group just got married two weeks ago, so you're just a spring chicken. And I doubt if she can whip up a tenderloin/ asparagus dinner like you.  

mum,

This IS the meaning of life. Love. It is a simple word and a simple philosophy.

"He who does not love does not know God, for God is love"
You're right mum, it is simple.  

mudpup

[mum as guest]

I've been thinking about what  you said, Mud, about you and your wife.  
No, I don't think most couples are like this.  It's hard to find.  I married a few toads, before I realized (and thankfully was able to find him again!) that the first man who asked me to marry him 24 years ago, is indeed that person that I feel that connection to.  I am so grateful....I don't know how I got so lucky....
And in retrospect, my "reconnection" with him was the start of my own transformation, or return to the real me.....no small coincidence, I see now.
I did and do the work....but he inspires me everyday to be a better person, and because he loves the "real" me, I get to love myself again.  Funny how another person can do this for someone.  I guess we do it for our kids...so it's not so strange...