S.O.S.

[Serena]

All I can say is that God doesn't want you to be this unhappy...........

Please look after yourself and see the value you have.  It's demonstrable from your postings on here, you are loving, warm, compassionate and 'dying' from the lack of love in your life.

By all means, try to sort out your marriage, I am such a Romantic because I have a fantastic marriage.  My husband is so uncomplicated, kind, funny, understanding and doesn't have an N bone in his body.  I am so lucky to have him, but he has me too!!!!!!!

[chutzbagirl]

Thanks for your response October.    

I understand the knee-jerk reaction to protect the children first.  I'm built that way too.  Sometimes I wonder if I've given my children too much of a voice.    They certainly don't have problems expressing how they are feeling or what they want and need.  Honest confession - sometimes I'm even a little jealous of their freedom.  Maybe I'll get there someday.  

chutz

[chutzbagirl]

Serena,

Thanks so much for your encouragement.     I always love hearing from people that are enjoying wonderful marriages.  It gives me hope that it could actually happen to me someday.  

I think you posted the "Wheel" poem on the Mother's Day thread.  If it wasn't please forgive my foggy memory today.  Anyways, that was a touching poem - I was grateful to have read it.

Take care - and I'm determined to take care of myself...whatever that may mean.

chutz

[October]

Thanks for your response October.    

I understand the knee-jerk reaction to protect the children first.  I'm built that way too.  Sometimes I wonder if I've given my children too much of a voice.    They certainly don't have problems expressing how they are feeling or what they want and need.  Honest confession - sometimes I'm even a little jealous of their freedom.  Maybe I'll get there someday.  

chutz

I know what you mean!!  My daughter has a voice, same as yours, and I really envy her that!!  It comes under giving our children all those things we never had, and always wanted.  

I am honestly very sorry that you find yourself in an impossible situation at present.  I worked hard for four years to keep my marriage going, back in the Dark Ages, but in the end it was not possible.  I am sorry that you find yourself fighting this battle too.  I am very aware of my daughter having been caught in the crossfire there, and most likely projected a lot of my guilt about that situation in what I wrote.  The marriage has gone, but the guilt remains.  

I hope things settle down more peacefully for you.  Only thing I learned in however many years of marriage; men can't change.  Women have to change, and stop expecting that they can.  Took me a long time to learn that one.  

[longtire]

((((Longtire))))
Thanks for your kind and thoughtful reply.  You didn't even come close to harsh.  

I'm glad to hear that.  I certainly don't want to add to your burdens.

I know some parts of our stories are similar.  It was hard for me to read your thread.  I do think your spouse may be more difficult than mine - but that could be my codependency talking.  I am very good at minimizing.

I know that feeling.  I made every excuse for my wife for years, until I realized that it was up to her to justify her own behavior, not me.  I have come to the conclusion that there is a line "out there."  Behavior that crosses the line is too painful to be around.  It doesn't matter whether it is just over the line or so far past the line that you can't see it anymore.  Over the line is over the line and quibbling about degrees of "badness" after that is pointless.  Your reaction seems to indicate that your H behavior is over the line for you.

It's really up to my H.  I know I can't go on with this neglect, blame and lack of intimacy.  It is a slow death - in fact death seems like it would be better sometimes.       No plans, but the thoughts do cross one's mind during times like this.

chutzbagirl, is your H following a definite plan to address these issues?  Just going to therapy is not a plan.  Saying something like, "I want to stop being sarcastic and blaming and I'm willing to examine my baggage until I can change my behavior," is more of a plan.  Has H ever shared his goals for therpay with you?  If he hasn't told you that he is doing this, then I think it is unlikely that he will actually ever do this.  I would not count on "luck" of him accidentally addressing his issues.  This kind of work requires commitment and focus.

I am willing to do what God wants whether that means braving singleness and a lowering of my standard of living for a while, or working through this painful marriage.  There needs to be a big shift - I need to stop being his diaper!  

I don't believe that God wants any of this for you or to see you in such pain.  That isn't to say he can't use this situation to help you grow and mature.  He won't do it for you, though.  He expects you to excercise your own will in this.  That means you have to take a chance on being wrong.  Of course, you may just end up being very right!  In any case, we will be here to listen and talk with as much as you need us.  I'll be praying for you to find peace.

[Brigid]

Chutzpa,
I'm so sorry for your not-so-wonderful Mother's Day.  I've certainly had more than a few of them.  Now that my H is not around I'm just so grateful for whatever my children do that I am never disappointed anymore.

I know the fear of what the divorce will do to the children.  It was really all I cared about in the beginning and my own pain was secondary.   Fortunately, my kids are older (almost 17 and 20), so they are able to process the whole experience from a more adult-like perspective. In our case however, they never saw parents who did not get along and always assumed we had a wonderful marriage.  In some ways, that may have made it more difficult because it came as such a shock.  

My son always has his voice and I know exactly how he feels about things.  My daughter, on the other hand, has a difficult time expressing her feelings so I always have to be so careful how I approach things with her.

My T has told me many times that my children will be better off in the long run if they see their mother in a loving, respectful relationship rather than one that was empty.  If you think there is still hope by being in couples counselling, I would certainly encourage you to do so.  But if that river has run dry and things are not getting any better, you may find it beneficial to pull the plug, for both your sake and the children as well.

I hope you can find the strength to work through this in the most healthy way for you.

((((((((chutzagirl))))))))))

Brigid

[OR]

Chutzbagirl

I only have a minute to post.

My T has told me many times that my children will be better off in the long run if they see their mother in a loving, respectful relationship rather than one that was empty. If you

A study done on Married with strong father figures the children did not get into as many problems with drugs and other trouble.

Single with strong mothers, kids did good

Married with Poor Father skills the highest for kids doing drugs and getting in trouble.

The father who is abusive and not a good role model did more harm.

Something to think about.

[mum]

Chutzpahgirl: I have had a few mother's days, birthdays, Christmases, etc etc like that.  It does stink. I'm sorry.
I was married to two losers in that department.  Even if I SPELLED IT OUT, exactly what I wanted (though I admit, I resented that I needed to do that, for Pete's sake!!), I still felt that I had to MAKE it happen, which of course, ruined the holiday from the get go.
So now, I am in a wonderful relationship with a wonderful man, who thinks up fun stuff to do when our children are together,  but I have to tell you, he is still a bit clueless.  I think when we women were watching/reading things about how happy people do holidays with children, the men just weren't watching!!
Now the difference would be, that you aren't just talking about holidays, you are talking about your whole marriage arent' you?
It is horrible to feel that you are responsible for most or all of the emotional part of a marriage.  It is NOT suppose to be that way.  No, men don't need to be mindreaders, but if your husband is that tuned out that he is not even concerned that you are unhappy, I think you have a real decision to make.
I stayed with my ex because of the kids, and then I left him because of the kids.  They deserve to see what love is.....and at least they would see it in how I love myself.  I simply could not pass on his family's dysfunction to another generation (never mind this is MY life too!!!)
So I will send you lots of love, light and strength while you step foot in figuring this out.  Much love.

[chutz]

Thanks Brigid, Bunny, Mum, Serena, Stormy, Longtire, MP, and anybody else I forgot.

Well, he came home and acted as if nothing was wrong.  He apologized to our daughter for not communicating with her better.  That's great, but he is neglecting me.  When I let him know I felt devalued and ignored he very logically pointed out that he apologized for his part yesterday.  

Hmm, ya know what, it doesn't feel like love.  I don't feel loved and valued.  I always thought it was my fault; he readily accuses me of having unrealistic expectations.  Is it unrealistic to desire to be thought of and appreciated in a warm and loving way?  Is it unrealistic to desire a husband that desires me?  After all these years of wishing he would want me more, I can't bring myself to accept his advances this past week.  My T said it sounds like I am shutting down.  Maybe I am.

I told him, before he went off to the gym, that the emotional neglect is unacceptable and I need change in order to remain in the relationship.  He asked me where I planned on going.  The Tin Man has more heart than than the man I chose to marry.  He really thinks its me and my issues.  I used to think it was me too.  But when I see that I am capable of deep relationships with other people, and other people value me, I realize his assesments of me are incorrect.  He is incapable of relationship.  If I didn't remind him he would not have sent his own M a card.  That was after I told him I was too tired to pick up cards for his family this year.  His parents, like him, are emotionally void.  

That's all for now - duty calls.

chutz

[Stormchild Guesting]

Hon, you should have titled this thread S.O.B.

((((((((((Chutz))))))))))

[Anonymous]

Chutz,

I told him, before he went off to the gym, that the emotional neglect is unacceptable and I need change in order to remain in the relationship. He asked me where I planned on going.

That is one stone cold reply. It sounds like a dare. Or maybe wishful thinking. It sounds like he is getting worse not better.
 

Is it unrealistic to desire to be thought of and appreciated in a warm and loving way?

No. Its your right as his wife.

Is it unrealistic to desire a husband that desires me?

No. See above.

After all these years of wishing he would want me more, I can't bring myself to accept his advances this past week. My T said it sounds like I am shutting down.

The idiot is crushing your spirit.

He really thinks its me and my issues.

Maybe. Maybe he's just manipulating you. Maybe he's just scared of examining himself, so he lays it at your feet.
I still hope and pray your marriage can be saved Chutz. But, as you said, it is up to him; you are done. You can't change him. He has to desire to change himself, but it sounds like he's hardening his heart.
(((((Chutz)))))

mudpup

PS. I hope forgetting things like the occasional card doesn't make one a bad husband.      

[Stormchild]

Chutz, is there any chance this **gentleman** is cheating on you?

[Anonymous]

Chutz, is there any chance this **gentleman** is cheating on you?
 
 

Thats what I was thinking but didn't have the gonads to ask. Not sure whether that says more about me or you Stormy.

mud

[chutzbagirl]

(((((Stormy)))))

     

You are funny.  I like women who can use all their words.  (Only if little ears are not around of course.)  

Everybody,

Yesterday would have been completely unbearable without all of you.  I was not able to share with my friends in my non-cyber life yet.  I guess I'll have to do that today.  

As of this minute, God seems to be telling me to hang-in-here.  I have withdrawn from the man.  Surface talk with out addressing reality is unacceptable to me.  His lack of emotional responsiblity is unacceptable to me.  This is a big issue for him - learning to take responsiblity for his emotional impact on other people.  My T confirmed he is not a N - so there is hope for growth.  I know my daughter senses some stress - but fortunately, I have withdrawn discretely.     I'm sure he is getting the message loud and clear.  

In the past I have been quick to re-attatch after these types of incidents because I couldn't handle feeling abandoned.  So he never suffered the consequences of acting like a (feel free to fill in the blank).  Now, I am willing to let him sit in the dog-house for as long as it takes for him to realize he is acting like a b*****d.  ( Did I just say that? )  If I  sense God is asking me to leave  - I shall pack us up and find a place to stay.

I am feeling stronger today.  My heart is still stinging, no doubt - but the picture is becoming clearer.  Isn't that the problem with those of us raised/impacted by N's - it is hard to know if we have been selfish or if it really is the other person.  

Ugh - this is hard work.

chutz

[chutzbagirl]

Cheating on me?  I don't think so.  I don't think he has the emotional or physical reserves to give to anybody.  If he is I pray God will let me find out asap.  That would make the answer clear.  

Honestly - I think Bunny nailed him on the head.  I'd quote her if I could do the blasted quotes.  (Mud, I tried again yesterday and just couldn't do it!   )  It takes effort for me to figure out details and I'm not in the mood - I'm an ENFP if you couldn't already tell.    (That's Meyer's Brigg's personality jargon. Interesting stuff...)

Anyways, back to the issue, Bunny nailed it when she described him as clueless and unwilling to put himself out for others.  When he faces the consequences of his actions he starts acting like a horses behind.  (I've already hit my cuss quotient for the day on this thread I'm sure.   )  

His low desire for intimacy I think has more to do with his low grade depression and almost nonexistent desire for emotional intimacy.  I married the man when I was 20 and completely in denial about my stuff.  How could I have known.  Honestly, don't think I could have made a good choice until this year.  

He saw me as a cute, achieving, bubbly, people-person.  (My false-self worked well for a long time - kind of miss it.)  I saw him as the Rock of Gibralter. (sp?)   I just didn't quite understand that if a person seems like a rock on the outside, then their heart may be made of a rocky type substance as well.    

Mudpup, missing the occasional card does not make you a bad husband.  You know your wife has a gem.   (Silly Mudpup   )  

I'm going for a long walk.  I'll check in later.  

(Hey, maybe I'll loose the last few pounds now that I've lost my appetite.   )

chutz