reality check - hoping for feedback, please?

[d'smom]

hey everyone, hope everyones ok.

i hope to vent here for a minute, and share some concerns with all the parents and teachers and survivors here. the purpose of this mainly, is to get feedback from people here who grew up with emotional abuse, who know about ptsd, and dissociating, and stuff like that.

im still on the search to get people to 'listen to me' about the things i see in my daughters personality that concern me. i want to have a litle reality check, and see if other people here see the same things i do.

I have talked to people at the womens shelter, and they were very concerned... I have also talked to D's preschool teacher, and she also is concerned. as I mentioned I made a report to child services, that was of enough concern to them that they made a home visit...

so, its not like im the only one that sees this stuff. but its frustrating to me that im still having to push people to understand that these things im seeing is a problem and not just normal child behavior... such that, someone will actually take action.

so, I just need to have a little vent about this and maybe get some feedback from other parents or survivors on how to continue, and what to do to help my daughter emotionally. my strategy so far has just been to be as supportive and consistent as possible and try to build up her self-esteem and be very accepting. but, underneath... im concerned.

this is whats been happening.

she continues to say weird things.  i had another talk with her tonigiht where she continued talking about her 'alter egos'. it was her main alter egos birthday several days ago, on friday 13th.

her main alter ego has been in a 'bad mood' lately (he seems to be the one that is allowed to be angry, since she is not) becuase his brother has come around. his brother is a vampire, and is attempting to force the alter ego to also be a vampire, which he does not want. in this conversation d. also told me for the first time that she believes that -she- is part vampire.

she told me she feels this becuase her hands are always cold and the light 'hurts her eyes'. she has a lot of insomnia and also nightmares that 'everyone is trying to kill her', but she claims to like these dreams! she also tells me she 'likes pain'.

she told me also for the first time, that she is not only switching into this 'alter ego' at times, but that she now 'has him do things' for her, that she doesnt want to do.

for instance she has him take her gym classes for her now, becuase she does not like sports.

she says this, as though its the most natural thing in the world. i dont think its unnatural, but i do think its a sign she is dissociating. she tells me that 'he' likes sports, and when he is in track, he runs very fast, which 'she' is not able to do.

please I dont want to hear this is just 'natural' or 'normal' or some usual twelve-year old thing that kids do. i know teenagers do weird stuff and that part doesnt bother me. but, i know my daughter, and =this= kind of weirdness is NOT normal for her.

I think she is having totally understandable PTSD - a normal reaction to a very abnormal situation.

these are poems she wrote. i specifically asked, and she said I could share them.



walking down the broken road
shards of glass beneath my feet
i feel them break and see the blood
vines have grown upon the walls
the pavement all scratched up and gone
and at the end it still isn't done.


here is part of another one:


things are happening and
i dont know how or why -
i have absolutely no control
over my own life.
the Black Magic is the ruler
it gives the commands
and i am just a slave
suffering at its hands.


theres a lot more. she mentions suicide, and running away, and tells me her 'life is hell'. she also quotes some very adult songs that she did -not- write. i found them extremely disturbing.


another knife in my hands
a stain that never comes off the sheets
clean me off
im so dirty babe
the kind of dirty
where the water never cleans off the clothes


also-

give me all your poison
give me all your pills
give me all your hopeless hearts
and make me ill


i found this imagery rather disturbing from a previously happy, well-adjusted twelve year old. its all very out of character for her.

shes not allowed to write to me, and has to sneak away to get me this stuff. theres a lot more just like it.

i am reading all these images as a serious cry for help, far beyond the normal crazy weirdness that teenagers get into. i know she is resilient and she has me to support her, and she will come through it all ok; BUT --- i dont want her to have to go through this at all, if I can prevent it. an ounce of prevention is worth a lot of cure with these kind of problems as we all know too well.

i need some backup with this so i can keep pounding the pavement trying to convince people to help me. it really insults me when people try to tell me its not a problem. if -their- twelve year old was doign this, it would darn well be a problem.

thanks for any and all comment, from teachers, therapists, survivors, people who dissociate, tofu eaters, anyone at all. what do you think of this? thanks for letting me just vent a bit. it makes me really sad to see my little girl doing all this.

thanks for listening all.
d's mom


ps, the child services lady told me she strongly suggested to fembot and dr. N that D. be put back into therapy, which they had taken her out of. so far, they havent done this.

[2cents]

Hi d's mom,

Can't really offer much help I'm afraid, but I think you're right to be taking this seriously. It really doesn't seem "normal" behaviour, but like she's in distress. I really wish I could offer some kind of helpful advice, but just wanted to wish you both much support.

2cents

[Hollow Cost]

d'smom,

I feel for your questioning and your struggles. As a parent, the need to be proactive and authentically aware is not always ap-parent. I commend you in your search for truth and health, without denial.  Follow your insticts with love and kindness. If she knows you're there, she'll know you care.

Something stood out for me as I read your post.  Putting aside the meaning behind her words and visions, your daughter seems very intelligent and articulate...well above her tender age level.  I was curious where she aquired her knowledge of alter ego and vampire-like qualities? Does she read about this stuff at 12 years old, is she being guided or influenced, or is she just feeling these things and telling her story...unusual as this may seem?  As the mother of a 13 year old boy, I took notice in the sophistication at which your daughter seems to understand and convey these very adult thoughts, feelings, and emotions. Maybe girls are different than boys? Although, I too, would question her thoughts if she were my child. She seems really intelligent and stimulated.  

In her poetry, I felt her ability to understand and convey her experience, and in an adult way.  I am still amazed, considering her age.  What might be said for her sharing this with you...and us? D'smom, keep on keeping on.  My heart and best is with you and your daughter.

[October]

i hope to vent here for a minute, and share some concerns with all the parents and teachers and survivors here. the purpose of this mainly, is to get feedback from people here who grew up with emotional abuse, who know about ptsd, and dissociating, and stuff like that.

im still on the search to get people to 'listen to me' about the things i see in my daughters personality that concern me. i want to have a litle reality check, and see if other people here see the same things i do.

she continues to say weird things.  i had another talk with her tonigiht where she continued talking about her 'alter egos'. it was her main alter egos birthday several days ago, on friday 13th.

she says this, as though its the most natural thing in the world. i dont think its unnatural, but i do think its a sign she is dissociating. she tells me that 'he' likes sports, and when he is in track, he runs very fast, which 'she' is not able to do.

thanks for any and all comment, from teachers, therapists, survivors, people who dissociate, tofu eaters, anyone at all. what do you think of this? thanks for letting me just vent a bit. it makes me really sad to see my little girl doing all this.

I am not a t or anything like it, but it sounds as if you are concerned that you might be dealing with dissociative identity disorder, which can result from child abuse and ptsd, as you say.  Children often use dissociation as a coping mechanism, but adults rarely use it unless they learned how as children.  Adults have other ways of coping.  (Not sure what they are, because I use dissociation myself.   )  

In extreme cases trauma can lead to the person splitting into different identities, but as far as I know (which is admittedly not very far!!), the different identities are not aware of one another, so your daughter is different from that.  Perhaps after all she is just (?) using fantasy or make believe.  Nothing wrong with that at all.  Many actors do the same thing; they 'become' one person on stage and another off, but they never actually forget who they really are.  If this is what your daughter is doing, she is being very intelligent and acting.  

Which is not to say that the dissociation itself is not a cause for concern, because I think it is.  If my daughter - who is 12 - was behaving as yours is, I would certainly be looking for help for her. I would advise you to continue to seek help, but at the same time provide reassurance to your daughter that she is normal, and that what she is doing is normal.  

When your daughter is dissociating, she will feel very disconnected and unreal for much of the time, if not all of it.  In these circumstances pain is welcomed as a reminder that the person is not actually a ghost, but alive.  It is strange for us to think this way, but pain is there to protect us from harm, and is therefore a friend, not an enemy.  Your daughter is showing a lot of maturity by recognising this, imo, but clearly is coping with more than is right, and you are right to be concerned and to look for more help.

I would recommend looking for information about ptsd, DID and dissociation in general.  But don't try to stop your daughter from doing it; if this is her way of protecting herself, then let her carry on until she can find other ways for herself that work better for her.

I am sorry you are in this position.  

Useful info on DID:

http://www.sidran.org/didbr.html

[daylily]

I think you're right to take this seriously, but I also think you have to be careful not to frighten your daughter or play into her belief (or wish) that there is something wrong with her.  

I am not belittling what your daughter is saying and writing.  To me, this is obviously cause for concern--certainly, I would be quite upset if I became aware of such thoughts.  I'm particularly concerned about the sense of powerlessness that is so apparent in her words and behavior.  But I think you have to be careful in this situation not to talk around or above your daughter.  If she gets the feeling that people are not paying attention to her (which is different from paying attention about her), her behavior may escalate.

I don't know the particulars of your situation, but I understand they're complicated.  If you can, I think you should make a case for her going back into therapy.  Talk to her about it, maybe, and see whether she would be willing to ask for it herself.

I'm sorry I can't be of more help.

Thinking of you,
daylily

[Brigid]

d's mom,

I have no experience with child psychology, PTSD or any of the other things you mentioned, but I think that when a child (or adult) talks or writes about suicide or alludes to it in any way, we need to treat that seriously.  I don't think it is something we can just imagine they will outgrow or is normal for that age.  I don't think it is normal and I would agree that it is a cry for help.  

All I can say is that I would do everything in my power to get your daughter back into therapy, so a professional can get at the root of what is causing these disturbing images and thoughts.

My thoughts and prayers are with you.

Brigid

[Anonymous]

Hi d's mom,

It's pretty tragic. My feeling is that your daughter may not have real alter egos but wishes she had them. It feels to me like she wishes she could dissociate more than she actually does. She's clearly miserable and despondent. I think it's pretty important that she be in therapy. It's also important not to convey a sense of great alarm to her (as daylily pointed out). Just keep doing what you're doing. Didn't you say that after the social worker's visit your parents were more cooperative? What happened after that...?

bunny

[mum as guest]

Anna: I am a teacher and a mom. 7th grade girls can be very dramatice, but  the extent to which your daughter is expressing distress...no, this is not "normal", in my opinion.  Your daughter sounds very articulate and intellegent with an enormous talent, by the way.  That she sneaks this poetry off to you speaks volumes about her situation.  She is crying out.

Hollow Cost: 13 year old boys are extremely different than 13 year old girls.  There is a lot of new research out there about how the male and female brains work at this age, (at least that's what I heard from our school counselor last night) but from my own observation of a parent of both a boy and a girl....no, the boys at this age aren't really this sophisticated and it's much more likely that they would have great difficulty identifying how they feel, much less have the vocabulary of feeling terms to express it.

Anna:  You have a solid cause to be concerned. If my own daughter (13 almost) could not be with me, I have no doubt, this is how she might react (another intellegent, creative soul).  Since your daughter's captors nixed therapy, but the last person to check her out seemed to understand the deal, can you contact that person again? (was she with cps? I can't remember).
Sending you love and strength and light, Anna.  I will not go into my children's situation right now, but it is not pretty, but somehow, knowing I can send you strength, stregthens me as well.. Solidarity I guess?
Again, your daughter will be an amazing woman because you are her mother.  You'll see (she sounds like she already is)..  Hang in there, there will be light shed on this soon.

[Anonymous]

Hi Anna:

I just want to add that I feel for you and how frustrating and scary this might be.  You see your daughter experiencing stuff that doesn't seem right or usual and yet you have no way to ensure she gets the help she needs.  It's not easy for you.

I like the idea of talking with her and seeing if she would agree to asking for help.  She might like someone outside her family, someone knowledgable and experienced, an adult to talk with about her thoughts and feelings?  A special time just for her with someone supportive?

(((((((Anna))))))

I would be concerned too.  Good for you for continuing to look for ways to help.  You are an excellent mom!!!

GFN

[write]

it's not your decision whether she goes to therapy or which doctors she sees?

I would say she needs a psychiatrist.

I don't know which country you're in, but when I lived in England there was an awful lot of 'therapy' done by psychiatric nurses; they of course have their place in mental health care, but I know our own situation improved so much once we were with qualified psychologist and psychiatrists over here.

I too would comment on the strength and beauty of her writing- I'd certainly encourage her with that, she has a talent.

Take care.

[d'smom]

thanks so much everyone, for writing back & all your thoughts. it really helps me feel better.

overall, i was glad that people could feel the sense of misery and powerlessness coming through her words. that was something that I was hoping others would feel.

thanks also for your compliments i guess its not just cause im her mom that I think shes intelligent and talented

as far as showing that i am alarmed: I agree with you all, not to react or overreact to these things.   she has written to me also that im the only person that understands her and listens to her (ALL of her ! ) and she thanks me for that. i do not repress or discourage anything she does, although, if she were living with me, we would be in a lot of therapy right now..... although, if she were living with me, theres also no doubt shed have no need to do much of this stuff. im really sure its a reaction to her environment.

re DID:  ive spent a lot of time on support groups for people who do have all range cases of multiple personalities.... (among other conditions) what I know about DID, it exists on a spectrum for mild spacing out, all the way to full blown multiple personalities that function independently of each other.  she says little things... that i just recognise as red flags, from knowing all these people. for instance most people dont talk about 'switching' just spontaneously. thats kind of insider term. i know from how she talks, it comes from her own experience, she didnt just hear it somewhere.

I do agree, its a coping technique,  a function of a creative and resourceful mind, and I encourage her to do what she needs.... it doesnt bother me other than feeling its a sign shes under duress, which all of you confirmed.

from what i know about -healing- from DID at any level, the goal in therapy is to integrate the parts... so i try to lay a groundwork for that, by encouraging her to maintain communication and be accepting of them, and what they do for her..... when she talks about them im accepting and use a lot of humor and try to lay a groundwork for the feeling that they are useful to her and will work together, for her benefit. i try to foster the idea that all of her is acceptable and useful and helpful and ok, and dont get too heavy with it. but boy do i wish i could get her out of that environment.

hollow cost: where she gets this stuff.  she definitely 'hides' in literature and reading. (which is great) shes real sophisticated even for a girl, but these ideas (the alters) have come from her own head... she has added to it, but it originated in her thoughts.. thank you for your compliments. im very proud of her in lots of ways.

october: thank you for the link and the comment about 'liking pain'. i had forgotten the aspect of using pain to feel connected... still and all, i gues i was right to recognise it as a problematic issue. i grew up in the same family she is now in, (my parents, her grandparents) and i dissociated a lot. i still dont remember most of my childhood at all. i also have 'peices' of me that do different tasks, however i am aware of them. so i think we both are reacting in similar ways to the same family environment. it encourages dissociation becuause they are so severe about what they will not allow you to do and feel. i think on a scale of 1 to 10 im about a 3, and she is edging over into a 4 or more.  thanks a lot for your thoughts and help. the bottom line is, its another sign, shes having to adapt to something unnatural.

daylily: thanks for your comment.... i guess you can see how important her writing is to her, that is why i know exactly how painful and invalidating what happened to you as a child must have been;;  if someone took away my daughters writing, she would be devastated. thats why i could feel for you so much, it still horrifies me...

thanks brigid. i agree about not ignoring mention of suicide. a lot of people have done that and regretted it. thanks for your wishes brigid.

bunny thank you... my parents: after the CSD visit my parents folowed their usual pattern which was to kind of straighten up for a little while, and now they are 'rebelling' again by making things difficult. for awhile they were right ontime with all calls etc but they are lapsing again and missing calls, disrespecting the schedule, etc. its very typical of them. they need to create drama in everything.... its a need for them. they  never do the same thing consistently for long. its how they keep people around them off-balance.  

they are resisting getting D. into therapy becuase id be involved from the start, and the therapist would know that D. should come home, and not support their agenda.  they dont want to risk being exposed as n's.  as far as I was concerned she should have been in therapy this entire time.

the child services lady told me in no uncertain terms that D. should be in therapy, and the therapist she had before, told me she needed to continue, when they took her out.

so, if they do not comply, im thinking of calling CSD back after awhile and making another report, saying they have not complied..... its delicate becuase 1) i dont want them to know i was the one that made the report.  and 2)  my parents have a total history of way overreacting to =everything=, and if i brought up anything the wrong way, they would likely accuse D. of being mentally ill, blame it on me, and make a huge mess out of it. so.... its kind of delicate..... they engender a feeling of hopelessness and powerlessness in everyone they deal with, me included. its very purposeful.  they keep me feeling like a rat in a maze with no options, i know this isnt true, but they are experts at making people feel that way. thats why im looking for reality testing.

its just mystifying how to deal with these people in any kind of rational way.

mum... thanks for your strength and wishes. i just keep focusing: she will be stronger. she will be stronger. i just want to get her home, and into a healthy environment though  knowing what happened to me when i was a teenager.... im lucky i lived, truly...... its spooks the hell out of me to think shes becoming a teenager with this lack of guidance and this much turmoil. but i just keep focusing: she will be stronger. there is some purpose.

thanks GFN for all your help, thanks 2c, thanks write. thanks for your compliments. write, its not my decision, she doesnt live with me, my Nparents took guardianship of her againts my will 4 years ago.... thats why shes having all these problems in the first place. before that, she was not this way at all.

understanding what shes going through makes her symptoms more understandable. they hold her against her will, suppress her emotions, violently severed her bond with her mom which was very strong, dont let her contact me, but at the same time tell its all becuase 'they love her' and that they are right and reasonable and that im sick and dangerous. shes under intense mental pressure from them to abandon me and betray me, her mother that she really loves, and she has seen them betray me and act like its totaly normal. its a lot to go through for an 8 year old. now she is 12, and the strain is just starting to show.  im surprised shes handling it as well as she is, frankly. it doesnt surprise me at all, the way they force her to divide her loyalties, and repress her emotions, that she would respond by splitting off. its classic, when you have nowhere to put certain parts of yourself, you wil create alters to hold them.


thanks all for letting me get some of this out and listening. thats really important to me beucase so few people understand whats going on. even my new therapist, a supposed specialist in domestic violence issues, told me on our first visit there was 'nothing she could do' which i think is crap. next visit i will show her the poetry. if it was -her- daughter, i say again, damn well she would be doing something. at the very least, these people are mandated reporters. why wont they get off their ass?

it just helps to talk about these concerns...its real hard to get clarity dealing with these insane, crazy people...
thanks all.
d's  mama

[Serena]

I'm sorry if I'm prying but why doesn't your daughter live with you?

It's horrible to me that she is growing up in an emotionally stifling and destructive environment.

[d'smom]

I'm sorry if I'm prying but why doesn't your daughter live with you?

It's horrible to me that she is growing up in an emotionally stifling and destructive environment.

thanks for sayng that  its not prying, it helps me a lot talk it out. its so confusing cause all the thoughts are just buzzing around inside my head.

long story short - my father & stepmother are very evil and controlling N's. they abused us a lot and i had no contact with them between the age of 18 and almost 30. they didnt even know where i lived or anything. they actually disowned me and i was happy for it, thats how much i wanted to be away from them.

becuase of the abuse i went through i had a number of health problems. when they found out that i had a child, (i kept it secret but they found out) - and even though they seemed to hve forgotten they legally disowned me!) they weaseled into my life and used it as a way to take control. they pretended to be helpful and offered to help me with my health problems (they are doctors) by letting my daughter stay with them while I got some intensive therapy i really needed (not drugs or anything - brain injury).

i was vulnerable, and wanted to do the best thing for her, and i was very sick, so i allowed her to stay with them for a temporary visit during which i took the therapy.  during this temp. visit they used their money and influence to take legal control of her behind my back.

they told a bunch of lies to a judge and held an ex parte hearing, meaning i was not notified and could not be there to defend myself.   it was a horrible horrible thing to do.  i should never have trusted them, i was so stupid. but abusers know how to manipulate.  

since i wastn at that hearing, the judge gave them custody without any question beucase they made me sound like a total criminal. i fought them for two years..... but it was hopeless. they are multi-millioinaires, and spread all kinds of rumours about me, to people who didnt know me, so a lot of people thought i was a really horrible person which also hurt my daughter a lot. they live thousands of miles away... i didnt have a lot of money and they took me by total surprise, and just bullied it through. it was a tragedy and totally unecessary though.

so she never came home from that 'temporary' visit. it was a horrilble horrible shock to both of us, and i still have horrible nightmares where i see her face looking for me, asking and crying, where are you, why arent you coming for me. its HORRIBLE. it was a horrible betrayal when i was trying to do the right thing and 'put the past in the past' as they kept saying (yeah rite) and do the best thing for my daughter. now she is trapped there as 'bait' and they use her to control me. she hasnt been home for 4 years now.  its a very tough situation emotionally.  thers a lot behind-the-scenes, that they like to control people and me especially, that is hard to explain, but its there and is the real root of the whole situation.

they try to convince her i dont love her and that i abandoned her.. but i still cal twice a week, i write letters every week, and i send money every month. this whole four years ive never missed a week..  i will never give up on her. its the only way ive kept any connection at all. i will never give up being there and working to get her back. its all about control, there is absolutely no reason why she cannot be with me. even child services told me she needs to come back. but, my parents are millioinaires. and they are nasty despicable N's. 'nuff said.

she says she wants to live with me but has give up thinking it will ever happen. that makes me -really- sad. its like shes growing up in jail.  so, i still keep working to bring her home and get those N's out of our life. but its a really lonely road. needless to say, ive got no family! and a lot of peopel believe the rumors. its lonely and really sucks for both of us. i cant protect myself from my abuser, and i cant protect my daughter, and im 39. its not fun.

thanks for asking serena :}}
d's mom

[Anonymous]

d'smom,

Is there any way you can move to where your daughter is?  I think it would be important to have as much physical contact as possible, also it might be beneficial in you regaining custody.  From what you've said here I am very concerned for your daughter.

LM

[d'smom]

Is there any way you can move to where your daughter is?  I think it would be important to have as much physical contact as possible, also it might be beneficial in you regaining custody.  From what you've said here I am very concerned for your daughter.

LM

thanks for your concern so much :}}.

im just overwhelmed and confused. this option has been on the table from the beginning. but, the ONLY benefit would be being closer to her. everything else would be a downside.  i want to be closer to her, but i would have to give up everything ive worked for here, and risk seriously destabilitisng my life and health, which is exactly what 'they' would love to see......  

its taken so much to establish a life here...  im very low income and am disabled and  have access to work here which is hard for me to find, ive worked very hard to establish a stable house and environment..... its taken soooo much work and im really really happy with my life here...... i keep feeling, we have a house here, we hve friends here, she has a good school here, what needs to happen is SHE NEEDS TO COME BACK TO HER HOME WHERE SHE LIVES. why should i give up even more of my life for no reason? she just needs to be returned home. if i give up all ive built to go down and 'play' their stupid game, it just seems im playing even more into their efforts to destabilise me and wreck my life. they would like nothing more than to see me lose everything ive built and become dependent and weak.

even if i did get her back at that point - i feel i would have so much less to offer her, down there with no friends, job, no stable house, etc....  i just dont know. it just doesnt feel right.

it just seems really daunting and like id be taking a step backwards in so many areas. but ive gone back and forth a LOT of times, wondering if it would be worth it.

it just feels to me as though it would put me in a weaker position in almost every way.

what id really like to do is get a car that gets really good mileage and just travel there frequently. then i could have my strength of my 'home base' but also spend a lot of time there. making the trip is very easy, i like to travel and drive, that is no problem to me. i think even with gas and everything it would still be cheaper than trying to reestablish my entire life in this new area.

I just dont know. they have me trapped but good. there is no good optioin here.  

im trying to turn all these ideas over in my mind, thanks for helping me.
d's mom