Newby

[Newby]

Do you think she is actually feeling guilty about what she did to me?

[mudpuppy]

Hi mum,

Let her stew, her mess is hers.
 

This reminds me of some wise words I have learned to live by. Kind of embarrassing where they come from.
There's an old Bugs Bunny cartoon where he's onboard with Christopher Columbus sailing to America. They're dining in the Captains Mess (or dining room). Bugs gets up and opens the door to leave as a big wave makes his bowl of soup slide off the table onto the floor making a large mess. He looks at the camera and says "Well, If its the 'Captain's Mess' let him clean it up."

How much time do we waste cleaning up the Captain's messes in our lives?
If you combine "It its the Captain's mess let him clean it up" with Popeye's declaration that "I yam what I yam" you have an almost complete philosophy on how to live life.
And all from watching cartoons.

Newby,
I think you're onto something in Romans 8:28 because it says He "works all things together for good.... for those who are the called according to his purpose". 8:29 tells us what that purpose is; to conform us to His Son.
In this awful situation you are in, with everything you have lost, He will use it to make you grow and become more like Him. Its hard to see when we're in the midst of it, but if you let Him do the work, when you look back you will see the good He does will far outweigh the pain you are now experiencing.
God bless.

mudpup

[mum as guest]

Newby: I think on some level, what's left of her consience may bother her....or she just really likes knowing she can get to you..  Either way, it's best ignored by you.  Hard to do, but try not to spend energy on her.

Mud: I don't have your extensive cartoon or New Testament experience....but I think it's all good!  That darn human thing.  Never really knowing what's going on, but having faith it's for good anyway, if we stick with love as a bottom line.  Sorry to simplify, I guess that would be a non-religious interpretation.


PS: when my eating disorded sisters would complain about thier tiniest bit of body fat, how many grams of whatever they ate today....I used to just say "I yam what I yam" and change the subject. (skinny people complaining about their bodies is sooooo boring!).  I do have those pointy Popeye elbows, so I feel entitled to use those words!

[Brigid]

Newby,

 

There is someone out there who is deserving of everything I have to offer and won't kick me to the curb on a whim (for more passion).

The first part of that statement is correct.  There is someone out there who is deserving of everything you have to offer.  I don't believe the second part, however.  She did not kick you out on a whim and certainly not for passion.  These N or BDP individuals don't opperate on whims imo.  They are calculated in their decisions and careful to be protective of themselves.  Her new relationship may be about sexual gratification and control, but true passion (which I believe goes hand-in-hand with true love) is not something of which she is capable.  In order for there to be passion, there must be intimacy--also something of which she is incapable.

I'm sorry you are blaming yourself for so much of the demise of your marriage.  I think Bunny really hit it on the head (she always does).  Read very carefully what she wrote and try to understand that your relationship was a lost cause.  The relationship she is in now is also a lost cause, but it will take him awhile to figure that out.

Do you think she is actually feeling guilty about what she did to me?

IMO, no.  Not the way you and I think of guilt and remorse.  I think she is testing you to see if she still has control over you.  I agree with mum to continue as you have been and do not respond to her e-mails or voice mails.  She will try to draw you back in at some level and you don't need that.  Stay strong.

Brigid

[bunny as guest]

Newby,

She is a textbook borderline: "I hate you: Don't leave me." This means that she will dump you, abandon you, trash you, destroy you, and STILL expect you to return emails, talk to her on the phone, listen to her problems, and take care of her. You are expecting adult behavior out of her. But she isn't an adult inside. She is about two years old. Maybe younger. She may feel a bit of guilt but it's the guilt a child has for being caught stealing cookies. Not adult remorse. I'm sorry. Keep up the NC and save yourself.

bunny

[mudpuppy]

Hi Newby,

Brigid wrote,

I think Bunny really hit it on the head (she always does). Read very carefully what she wrote and try to understand that your relationship was a lost cause.

This is good advice. Read what bunny said, and understand from it that while your wife tests and tests and tests until she is abandoned, that abandonment is the one thing she is most terrified of. Thats why she wants to keep you around and on the hook. She has to prove that you will abandon her just like everyone else has or else her whole world view is wrong, but she also wants you to prove you won't abandon her no matter how awful she treats you. It is impossible to win this game and you had nothing to do with causing it, you just got suckered into a marriage with a (probably) incurable woman who is bananas.

There are plenty of women out there who aren't bananas. And most of them would be thrilled with a guy who is 10% body fat.  

Fortunately my wife is able to understand the virtues of a guy who is about 20% body fat and about 80% head fat.  

mudpup

[RobG]

Your story is so so similar to mine. Very attractive female, very flattering, and very well rehearsed. So used to getting their own way that they assume that is how life is meant to be.

Her house is a palace, her life is a complete mess. She will mess mine up too, and would probably have succeeded, but I have just found this site and realise that I am not going mad.

I now have to figure out how to extract myself from this quagmire. It won't be easy as she is relentless and ruthless. Now I have the tools that need to handle her with skill and dexterity. This site has saved me from a lifetime of misery.

There is only one way to treat these people and that is to ignore them, refuse to argue, hang up on them, and only ever conduct conversation in a steady unemotional voice. It frustrates the hell out of them, but care is needed as the manipulative side is just around the corner. I will keep looking over my shoulder, and suggest that you do the same!

Best of luck, you are not alone.

RobG

[Newby]

Mudpupy, you are too much. You are probably better off with the fat head.
I am finding inner beauty will make you much happier in the long run.  I think my body is one of the things that got me in trouble.  She never would have come after me if I didn't meet her standard.  I had to look right because I was a reflection (part) of her. One of the adoring things she did was to buy all of my clothes and put out my clothes each day.  I thought she was being kind; but, all along it was to make her look good because I was her husband.  I am careful to wear clothes that don't show much because I want someone to get to know the person inside.   I am extremely leary of women who dress in short skirts and are augmented.  It is like the kiss of death.  This whole experience has really got me back in the "word" and I find that if I would have been playing by the rules, I never would have gotten myself into this mess.  I am definately on the straight and narrow and intead to stay there.  The rules are for our own good.

[mudpuppy]

Hey Newby,

You are probably better off with the fat head.
I am finding inner beauty will make you much happier in the long run.

Now you've got me sounding like somebodies blind date nightmare story. "He's really nice and has a great personality..."    
My wife does have some standards.
Just kidding. Well, I mean she does have standards, I'm not kidding about that. Just kidding that I was offended.

One of the thing that Ns and Bs seem to have in common is a great talent for what they do. Its their entire identity so I guess its natural they're good at it.
So don't feel bad if you were deceived. Don't waste time asking why you couldn't see it.
They're professional con men and they can spot  a mark a mile away. We're just amatuers caught in a shell game run by a pro. We never stand a chance until they take their mask off, and being pros they seldom do that until its too late. As someone else said, just thank God in heaven you didn't have any kids with her. She'd be playing you like a Duncan yo-yo the rest of your life.

This whole experience has really got me back in the "word" and I find that if I would have been playing by the rules, I never would have gotten myself into this mess.

See, some good has already come of it.
Take care.

mudpup

[longtire]

Newby, I moved out when my wife and daughter were out for a long weekend school trip.  My wife was chaperone for the trip.  She left me a note saying she hoped everything went well for me and was praying for me in "this situation."  You see, she can't comprehend that I left because of her behavior (and my reactions to it, of course!).  She believes, as she has all along, that there is something wrong with me that I can't see her prefection the way she does.  She really can't even imagine that she has contributed to the demise of this relationship in any significant way.  Does she feel guilty?  Of course not, she has never done anything wrong and has "been very patient with me."  Does your wife feel guilty?  Probably not, based on your description of her behavior.  Has she asked you to forgive her?  Take her back?  Apologized for her hurtful words and actions and mistakes?  Admitted that she realizes that she played a part in this marriage breaking up?  All the things you would say and do if you suddenly found YOURSELF in that position?  The sad thing is that she probably has been in this position before, maybe many times.  The nice words stuff sounds more like an attempt to look good and cover up her responsibility and to try to make you look bad.  "Yes I cheated and kicked you out, but I was really nice about it.  There must be something really wrong with you if you respond to my perfectly nice words by getting angry."

The best thing you can do for yourself is to detach emotionally as well as in communications.  You are part owner of the house, right?  So you will still need to work together somehow to dispose of that.  I also asked my wife to communicate with me only through EMail unless there was an emergency where our daughter needed something right away. In my case, my wife works, but I basically support her.  The first EMails from her mixed business with telling my why she needed more than half the money each month and that she deserves it more for various reasons.  I replied only to the legitimate business and gave up explaining, just kept reiterating that I did not agree with her.  The last several EMails have been much shorter and just business.

[cosmic joe]

last post describing the dread her

sounds a lot like
my wonderful wonderful mom

is there a problem ?

[Newby]

Mudpuppy,
I need to appoligize for a misunderstanding.  When you said you had a fat head, I took that to mean your wife feels you are very intelligent ( head fat, large brain) which is much more valuable than low bodyfat.  Thanks for your keen insight.

Longtire,
You are very courageous to leave with all that you are losing.  You are right that she just feels I have done everything and she has made no contribution to the break up. I don't even try to explain anything to her because she cannot understand.  She says that I have a narrow head( polish for narrow minded) and that I am a controlling freak. I don't control anything, and she tries to control everything in her life.

[Anonymous]

Hi again Newby:

How's the NC going?  I think that is the best idea.  It will help you to get a chance to take a deep breath of fresh air.

Also, I like what Longtire said:

"The best thing you can do for yourself is detach emotionally.....".

Not the easiest feat but doable, especially with a "narrow head".  This particular feature will assist you now....in thinking within only a very narrow space......."detach emotionally.......detach emotionally......"

     

Glad you're still posting.   Hope each day will get a little easier.

GFN

[mum]

Longtire: Your line of questions about the wife (yours? Newby's?) taking responsibility for the demise of the marriage....or apologizing, etc...really hit home with me, and I had sort of forgotten it.

When I caught my ex in the final affair, and said I wanted out, he didn't want a divorce.........I did.  So I divorced him. He became the "victim" and never once, I mean not once, apologized for his behavoir, the affair, the lying....not even once.  He said he didn't want to lose his home or his children, and that intellectually it made the "most sense" for him to be married to "someone like me" but he never really acknowledged that his actions and behavoir and carelessness with my life and MY marriage vows (oh, yeah, his too) had led to this.  It was all my fault.  If I had somehow been a better wife, HE would not have had to lie, cheat etc.  I was in the same rotten marriage, but I didn't cheat or lie. (not that I had time being a single mom, basically!....but I simply would not consider that!!!!!)

Anyway, thanks for letting me vent.  That's an old scab right there!!!!

[Newby]

GFN,
I actually had a good day yesterday.  I am staying strong with the NC.  I mentioned that she sent me a short email two days ago just asking me to round up any house keys from family and wishing me  a happy birthday.
I did not respond.  Yesterday she sent me an email just stating she forwarded a credit card bill. I did not respond.  Both emails were statements so I figured I did not need to respond.  When I did not respond to the 2nd email, she left me a vm requesting I respond to her emails because she does care about me and wants to make sure I am okay. She went on to say we share a house still "even though I(she) take care of all".  To confirm receipt, I sent an email stating OK, thanks.  It is difficult but this just seems like a junior high relationship with adult consequences.  It is very saddening.  Before her emails would give me an excuse to respond and end up appologizing and defending myself which just gave her confirmation she was right again.