Author Topic: Shattered illusions....What now?  (Read 15786 times)

Plucky

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Re: Shattered illusions....What now?
« Reply #60 on: September 04, 2005, 05:36:03 PM »
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In my last call with her she was going on about them and I told her that they had not been meant, just written cos it was easier.  I also said that I felt she had never liked me as a child....  She put the phone down on me....  That was quite a relief really but now I know that she is wanting contact...

Hey Spyralle, keep those memories coming.  They are awful experiences, and recalling them and your feelings about them is not self pity.  It is called processing the pain.  A necessary step to healing. 

I am really proud of you for telling your 'mother' the truth.  And she had no response!   Yaye!  You shut her up!

That first N husband sounds scary.  A nurse like that!!!!!   I will not get sick, I will not get sick.....

I must admit I laughed at the olive story.  I'm sorry.  But let's laugh at your ridiculous mother, not at anything else!   She is so out of touch with reality!

Yes of course she wants contact, to get her supply.  Make sure no supply leaks out of you!  And she will soon leave you alone.

Plucky

amethyst

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Re: Shattered illusions....What now?
« Reply #61 on: September 04, 2005, 09:12:27 PM »
((((Spyralle)))) What you are doing right now is very brave. Processing what really happened and the feelings associated with it is the most courageous thing anyone can do. If you get the "self-pity" message, realize that it is a message of shame coming from your toxic mom.

I am sure most of us heard a version of,"Stop crying right now or I will really give something to cry about." We were not allowed to be children, to have needs, to have feelings...and on top of that, when we try to heal we are inundated with shame messages. Just keep processing and writing, Spyralle. We are here for you. I can tell you that you are on the journey to becoming whole....and that you will find more happiness, serenity, and strength than you can imagine as you work through memories and the deep pain.

It's very common to have a breakthrough one day, feel pretty good, and then feel horrible again the next day. As you remember and feel, more memories will come up that need to be processed. I can tell you that the hours of feeling good increase and the hours of extreme pain become less the farther you proceed on your healing journey. In time, you will learn to trust the process.

mum as guest

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Re: Shattered illusions....What now?
« Reply #62 on: September 05, 2005, 01:02:47 PM »
Hello, Spyralle, All:
I don't have a lot of time to visit on the internet anymore, but I wanted you to know that I still think of you and send you (all) my love. This is such a wonderful "place", full of brave life travellers. I find what I say may have been better said before, but the teacher in me thinks we can never hear the same thing too much, or in too many different ways (we never know which will "click" with us).

I think in terms of energy a lot. In reading this thread, Spyralle, I am reminded of things I have learned (through a variety of sources) about the way energy works in relationships.  I have found, in my life, that many times a person has negative energy in thier body/mind, and they seek to release that by dumping onto someone else.  I used to be a particulary good dumpee.  I think many of us here were/are that way, as many of us are "healers" by nature.  N's just love that.

My ex tends to have a LARGE amount of negative energy...and when he is not drinking to escape from it, he is dumping it....everywhere. Your mom reminds me of that. Kids tend to do that (but because they are not adults, we accept it more....the N's just never grow up, I guess).  Your mom dumps on you, leaves you with HER negative energy, and then skips happily on her way. I see it with Cadbury's ex.....writing her like nothing is wrong....it's not news to anyone here, probably.

My own children can do it (we all can). My children will have a "problem" and they tell me about it. I internalize it, feel bad for them, maybe even try to "fix" it and they go merrily on thier way, having let it go (onto me).

I try now, to be aware of this in my life.  Step out of my situation, as it were, long enough to identify if the energy I feel is actually mine, or if it really belongs to someone else.  I find that if it is negative, and there is nothing I can do to change it, it is most likely someone else's. Then I make a choice, hopefully, the most productive one. Mostly, that means letting that energy go...back to the person it belongs to, or into the ether....and I can imagine it transforming into love.  This tends to fulfill my need to "heal", but in a much healthier way (for me).
If it is my "own" negative energy, then I can heal it when/if I choose...or I can muck around in it a while to find out why it is there. But I own it.

We do this with kids in school (at least in my school). A lot of us use a great program, called "love and logic", which helps teachers and kids take ownership of thier energy. No, they don't talk about energy (it's too "airy fairy/white light" to do that, of course) but essentially, it is the same thing. A student will have a "problem" and with some processing, I leave it to them to "own" it, and figure it out. Most of the time, they can do it. Traditionally, kids in school go to the adult to "fix" the issue, or at least "dump" it on the adult. But that doesn't actually empower children. Now I let them fix what they can, and show them they can (unless it is truly out of thier control, and my job!).

Anyway, I think the most respectful thing we can do for our fellow humans of any age, or any relationship to us, is to let them learn from thier own issues....give them the power of choice, but owning only that which is ours, energetically, learning and setting our own healthy boundaries, and in effect, allowing others to do the same.

All that said, I believe the very first step in this is a core belief that we are good and worthy at our essence. That our true nature is that of goodness and love. This is the stepping off point of this work, and the thing I need to come back to time and again...(learn, fall flat, learn again....etc). That's life. And it can be a wonderful adventure.  Hang in there, sweetie. You are good.

spyralle

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Re: Shattered illusions....What now?
« Reply #63 on: September 06, 2005, 01:23:46 PM »
OK, well I seem to be drowning in a strange sort of negative energy today so I am going to try to examine it to see why it is there.  I seem to be on a bit of a roller coaster ride at the moment.  This morning I was on a high and I went tripping off to a posh hotel for a drugs conference.  by the end of the day I was right down on a major low and I'm not really sure what happened in between.  i started talking to people while I was there, people who I work with and have worked with before.  One guy asked me how my ex was and instead of closing the subject, out it all blurted, and from then on everyone I spoke to i was vomiting negativity all over them.  About the conference, about how I hated my job Blah blah blah.  i was getting irritated with everything that was said and just wanted to leave and go home.  I was sick of the beaurocracy and the arrogance that has crept into addiction services and I just wanted to yell at them all.  Though of course there is a large element of truth in this.....WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH ME?????  Am I so arrogant that I feel I know better than everyone else.

Why can I not have an in between phase where I do not feel too much of anything.  I really am hating my job at the moment, and I want to run away and start something new and pretend I am someone else rather than stay with this feeling..  I am trying to link it up to something but I am not having very much success...

Love to everyone

Spyralle

amethyst

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Re: Shattered illusions....What now?
« Reply #64 on: September 06, 2005, 01:43:39 PM »
OK, well I seem to be drowning in a strange sort of negative energy today so I am going to try to examine it to see why it is there.  I seem to be on a bit of a roller coaster ride at the moment.  This morning I was on a high and I went tripping off to a posh hotel for a drugs conference.  by the end of the day I was right down on a major low and I'm not really sure what happened in between.  i started talking to people while I was there, people who I work with and have worked with before.  One guy asked me how my ex was and instead of closing the subject, out it all blurted, and from then on everyone I spoke to i was vomiting negativity all over them.  About the conference, about how I hated my job Blah blah blah.  i was getting irritated with everything that was said and just wanted to leave and go home.  I was sick of the beaurocracy and the arrogance that has crept into addiction services and I just wanted to yell at them all.  Though of course there is a large element of truth in this.....WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH ME?????  Am I so arrogant that I feel I know better than everyone else.

Why can I not have an in between phase where I do not feel too much of anything.  I really am hating my job at the moment, and I want to run away and start something new and pretend I am someone else rather than stay with this feeling..  I am trying to link it up to something but I am not having very much success...

Love to everyone

Spyralle

(((Spyralle)))

Oh boy! Can I relate to what you just said!! When I started to change and get better, I then wanted to change everything that was bugging me. For instance, I used to be an insurance auditor and I hated every minute of it, but I had believed that it was ok not to love one's job. Duty and a stiff upper lip and good salary were more important before recovery than they were after I started to feel and heal. Once it became clear how dissatisfied I was with my job, which was a horrible fit, I wanted to pull my whole life up by its roots and change everything all at once. I thought doing that would somehow "fix" me.

There were many things in my life that I wanted to change, in addition to the job. I finally realized that it would all take time. I'm still working on some of it...the inside stuff. 

My therapist kept telling me that I should take little baby steps. She was right. I did eventually quit my job and am better for it, but I had to lay the groundwork before I did. That in-between time was hard. 

Plucky

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Re: Shattered illusions....What now?
« Reply #65 on: September 06, 2005, 03:19:41 PM »
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WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH ME?????  Am I so arrogant that I feel I know better than everyone else.
You might be right and you might be wrong.  But unless you speak up, the alternative is to feel something is wrong but just go along with the flow.   That is never going to feel right.  And what about your voice?

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Why can I not have an in between phase where I do not feel too much of anything.
Drugs can do that for you.    They can dull the pain so you can function better temporarily.

my best wishes
Plucky

spyralle

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Re: Shattered illusions....What now?
« Reply #66 on: September 07, 2005, 02:21:18 PM »
You are right Amethyst about things taking time......  i want it all to happen now.  I have just returned from therapy and have been talking about where I am going in my life.  I was debating whether or not to start a masters this month and I have decided to defer it for a year in order to take my time and to make sure that I can give it the time I need to and maybe in a years time I won't actually want to do it any more.  I am always trying to better myself in some way and my therapist suggested that this may be to finally do that one thing that will win my mothers approval.  Well I guess I am beginning to realise that that will never happen no matter what I do.  We talked a lot about boundaries today and how I have none and places perhaps I need to put them...i.e. in relationships with everyone.....  at work, where I just take on more and more and more.....  She is trying to help me realise that actually I could live my life for me.

We talked about how I could lay boundaries with my mother so that I do not et locked in to these awful conversations about how awful I am or how awful my daughter is.  The thought of being able to live my life as I pleased was such a liberating one I have to say, but i guess the doing of it will be pretty hard.  You are also right about the baby steps.  That is what I teach my clients (shame I don't listen to myself). 

Plucky....  Are you suggesting that I take up drugs !!!!!!!!! 

I know you mean AD's but I am really trying to do this without them and feel the pain.  I just want to face it down.  I have run away from it all my life...

Spyralle x

Chicken

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Re: Shattered illusions....What now?
« Reply #67 on: September 07, 2005, 02:45:37 PM »
Spyralle,

dunno why I felt like you hadn't posted in a long while!  I just checked the date and realised that it was last night when you last posted!  Doh!  :?  Guess I was ready for my daily fix then!

Anyway, Spyralle, I haven't said this before, but I am with you on the anti depressant thing.  I believe that it's very important to feel pain.  Sometimes it is your spirit's only way of communicating to you that something is very wrong and needs fixing.  Obviously if it gets unbearable, the anti depressants are a god send, I am not knocking them and I am not naive about depression either, I realise just how crippling it can be, I'm just saying that i think it's best to hold off for as long as possible before reaching for the anti-depressants.  I always say "what doesn't kill ya, can only make you stronger" 

vunil

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Re: Shattered illusions....What now?
« Reply #68 on: September 07, 2005, 11:14:12 PM »
Just another point of view on the AD's from someone who has tried recovery with and without:

I think the idea of AD's covering up pain is from the media. They had all these stories about "happiness pills" and such and it gave the idea that AD's make you feel giddy, like ecstacy or cocaine or something.  Alas, the truth is more pedestranl.  Actually, for depressed or anxious people AD's can make it easier to feel pain, not harder.

Depression and anxiety do two things, at least for me (and others I have talked about this with):  They "fuzz" the brain, making it hard to feel anything, especially when really hard stuff starts coming up, sending the person into spaciness or sleep or this kind of "cloud brain" I used to walk around in, and they pull the brain away from the painful subject and toward other stuff, in avoidance.  One of my brain's favorite avoidances was obsession-- instead of thinking about how upset I was about XYZ thing my brain would have a slight thought about XYZ, then veer off into a really engaging obsession with Q thing instead.  I never addressed what was really bothering me because I was so busy with Q.  And the cloud brain was very useful for never feeling what I really felt.

So, just for a different perspective-- AD's can make it so that you can feel pain, not the opposite, and so that you can feel it long enough to really do something about it.

It is a personal choice to take them!   I just don't like the way they are protrayed a lot of times in the media and I think it gives funny ideas about what they do (and don't do).  They make them sound like some sort of crutch. I  think of them more as a way to take the crutches away and allow real stuff to happen.


Plucky

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Re: Shattered illusions....What now?
« Reply #69 on: September 08, 2005, 02:11:54 AM »
I was totally against drugs too.  But I did take them for a while because my state and actions were detrimental to building my life back together.  I needed to be normal at work and I needed to think things though clearly.  I agree with vunil that the fog lifted and life became something I could actually live through.

If something on you is broken, why not use a crutch until you heal?  Why be macho? (as I was for too long)

But like Vunil says, you have to decide what will work for you.
Plucky

 

vunil

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Re: Shattered illusions....What now?
« Reply #70 on: September 08, 2005, 02:59:40 AM »
That's actually how a friend convinced me to try them-- she said they don't work if you don't need them.   So I was pretty convinced on me they wouldn't work :)

Well, when the fog lifted the first day (about 5 hours after taking the first pill) that took care of that theory.

I have read accounts of folks taking them recreationally (some people will do anything!).  They didn't feel remotely better, in fact they felt awful.  Brain chemistry is so interesting. 

Anyway, of course it's a personal choice.  Personally, I wish I had tried it years ago.  So much in my life would have gone better, I think, without the fog and the obsessions. 

spyralle

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Re: Shattered illusions....What now?
« Reply #71 on: September 08, 2005, 03:09:32 AM »
Vunil and Plucky,

My experience last time was very different.  For the first three weeks I felt like I had custard in my head.  I felt nauseaus and ill and could barely think.  Then the veil lifted and you are right I was able to work and think more clearly.  This really did help me I agree, but the problem was that thy kept me in a kind of 'middle' space.  They did not allow me to get very low, but neither could I feel really good about anything.  Then I had the nightmare coming off....  As a psych nurse I have seen them work wonders on people and I do think they are a great thng for stopping obsessive thought and often that horrible panicky feeling.  For some reason though this time it is very important for me to feel everything.  It could be the wrong or the right way...  I'm not really sure but it feels intuitively right and I am trying to learn from my intuition.

if I get to the point where I can't go to work then I will be throwing caution to the wind and trying everything I can...

Spyralle x

Mati

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Re: Shattered illusions....What now?
« Reply #72 on: September 08, 2005, 03:48:58 AM »
I have found that herbs have been very effective in helping me through rough spots, where I have needed something to make me feel calmer and reduce obsessing.

I take something containing hops, valerian and gentian called Kalms here in the UK, but there are other herbs and extracts that have this effect.

I wonder whether it is a cultural thing, or more power and monopoly by the pharmaceutical companies but on American sites I always find a much greater willingness to discuss and take medication, along with a general encouragement of others to do so. A quick look at the potential side effects is enough to scare me. But there again, I am permanently signed sick and do not have the pressure to get out there and perform. Maybe this is the difference as I know that the SS laws are much stricter there. Medication does offer a quick fix.

I took anti-depressants for four years after post-natal depression, and had a terrible time coming off them, losing my sleep pattern permanently since, and have an irritable bladder too since.

There is a lot one can do with diet to help like avoiding things that will strain the system like coffee, meat, sugar. A diet high in nutrients will go a long way in helping the mental state. 

 

spyralle

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Re: Shattered illusions....What now?
« Reply #73 on: September 08, 2005, 02:08:40 PM »
i agree Mati that Nutrients are very important.  I can't take calms because they contain Valerian which gives me very vivid and long lasting nightmares.  i went to a hoeopath a few weeks ago and she gave me ignatia for when I was in a real panicky emotional state.  that was quite helpful  She also gave me rescue remedy.

I do think that AD's are maybe sen differently in the USA, but people seem to have better experiences on them also for some reason.

All I know is I could do with something today to help me take away this horrible knot in my stomach.  My loneliness is quite overwhelming...

Spyralle x

amethyst

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Re: Shattered illusions....What now?
« Reply #74 on: September 08, 2005, 04:19:47 PM »
Vunil and Plucky,

My experience last time was very different.  For the first three weeks I felt like I had custard in my head.  I felt nauseaus and ill and could barely think.  Then the veil lifted and you are right I was able to work and think more clearly.  This really did help me I agree, but the problem was that thy kept me in a kind of 'middle' space.  They did not allow me to get very low, but neither could I feel really good about anything.  Then I had the nightmare coming off....  As a psych nurse I have seen them work wonders on people and I do think they are a great thng for stopping obsessive thought and often that horrible panicky feeling.  For some reason though this time it is very important for me to feel everything.  It could be the wrong or the right way...  I'm not really sure but it feels intuitively right and I am trying to learn from my intuition.
if I get to the point where I can't go to work then I will be throwing caution to the wind and trying everything I can...

Spyralle x


(((Spyralle)))

I totally agree with you. There are many times in healing when we know that taking ADs is not the way to go. There are other times when it might be necessary. We have to have enough belief in ourselves to know the difference. It seems that at least here in the US many doctors are very eager to prescribe them despite horrible and sometimes deadly side-effects.

When I had to go to court and turn custody of my daughter over to the county to get her the residential therapy she required, I grieved. My husband was very concerned about my grief and thought that AD's might be the way to go. I told him absolutely not. I knew that I needed to get through the grief and I believed that I could, which I did. I could tell the difference between depression and grief; I cried every day for months, and I expressed a lot of pain and hurt, but I was totally able to function. I saw a therapist during this time and she helped me get through it.     

On the other hand, I went into a severe chemical depression when my mother told me that she had always wondered what my father had been doing in my room for so long when I was a child. I was just starting to heal from incest and when she told me that, I fell into a hole of despair. I realized, on a level that I could not handle at the time, how absolutely alone and unprotected I'd been during my childhood, and no amount of therapy, self-talk, and support could get me out of that hole. When I say a "chemical depression", I could actually feel my brain physiology changing. That may sound crazy, but I swear this is what I felt. I'd had the same thing in the past when I took birthcontrol pills. Of course the cure in that case was to stop taking the pills.

Along with the despair came suicidal thoughts and I knew that I was in major trouble. I want to a shrink and was placed on Pamelor. I felt as if my head had been pounded into a stump. Dumb and dumber. I also perspired profusely and had a dry mouth. I also felt numb and rather high, so high that nothing much bothered me, which was not right and no way to get through incest issues. We tried Prozac next. Prozac put me to sleep. I could barely stay awake...opposite reaction of how it affects most people. We then tried Zoloft, which worked I think the way it should. The suicidal ideation went away. I was able to deal with the despair and do the necessary work to heal from the incest and my mother's betrayal. 

The psychiatrist I had been seeing suddenly told me that she thought I was bi-polar and that I should not be doing "that kind of therapy." I had made the mistake, if it was a mistake, of telling her I was having some real breakthroughs and was starting to feel much better, showing a little joy and humor in her office, which she had never seen in my previous states of profound depression, dopiness, and lethargy. I disagreed with her diagnosis because I had never had the manic state of bi-polar disorder. I got myself a new psychiatrist who told me that I should proceed with the therapy and at the most, I was slightly cyclothymic...meaning I have mild mood swings. Finally, I started getting blurry vision from the Zoloft. I went to my shrink and said,"Is this because I don't need it anymore?" He felt that it was likely that I was over my depression and I was weaned off of the Zoloft.

A few years later, I was mis-diagnosed with fibromyalgia and depression. I was told I was overly sensitive to pain, a real hypochondriac. Not having experienced chronic pain before, I believed what I was told. Once again, I was placed on Zoloft, which did nothing. We tried Effexor, Luvox, Wellbutrin, and several others, all of which had horrible side effects. Well, it turned out that my pain symptoms were not from depression or hypochondria, but a real genetic disease. I took the AD's because I was desperate, but I finally gave up and started looking for other causes for the pain.

I do take an SSRI today for ADHD...Strattera. It works without altering my mood. I had taken Ritalin (horrible stuff), Cylert (ineffective), and prescription amphetamines (worked pretty well till they wore off at the end of the day) before for ADHD. Strattera is much more effective. I was glad to get rid of the amphetamines, athough someone with true ADHD does not become addicted to amphetamines. I was always worried that somebody might recognize the pills and think that I was self-medicating. Employment drug tests were another issue.

My last experience with AD's was about six months ago. I asked my regular doc to refer me to a rheumatologist to see if there was more I should be doing to recover from my genetic condition. Unfortunately, the rheumie (who I picked off a list) was an abusive jerk who knew nothing about the underlying genetic condition causing the symptoms, but thought he did. I felt as if I were back in a time warp. He told me that I was histrionic and hypochondriac, a disasterizer, and then turned around to tell me I had the "worst case of fibromyalgia" he had ever seen. He put me on Elavil to help me get restful sleep, which he felt might be contributing to my chronic pain. Instead of restful sleep, I had intense nightmares and heart palpitations. I took the pills for two nights and then decided it would be a mistake to take any more. I called the rheumy to tell him the side effects and to see if there was something else that I could take and he yelled at me.  :x  Needless to say, I have never gone back. I have since discovered that fibromyalgia is one of the symptoms of my genetic condition and that it is something that I will always have to live with. Some days it's better and some days it's worse.

Diet and supplements help me a lot, but I have some special needs because of the medication I take to help with the genetic condition. I eat a high protein, fairly low carb diet with lots of veggies and some fruit. I have take vitamins and extra magnesium, chromium and Vitamin B because the medication I take can cause nerve damage in high doses, and I have to take high doses. I also take L-Carnitine and Q10 enzyme. I take Valerian as a muscle relaxent sometimes. It doesn't make me feel goofy as the prescription muscle relaxants do.