((((October))))
Ah, but there is a huge difference between you and Jeni. You recognized how traumatic your marriage was and that it had damaged you. You realized you needed help and got it, also dealing with your earlier childhood trauma. You didn't lean on your daughter. You are allowing your daughter to have her own life and try out her wings without expecting her to fix you or be there for you, even in those times of depression and despair. Instead, you have taken the high road and are behaving as an adult. You and Jeni have victimization in common, but nothing else.
Jeni is unwilling to get counseling. What does that say about her? Jeni has presented a loving face to Joe, but has kept a book of hate behind his back. What does that say about her? Jeni is incestuous with her children, using them. What does that say about her? Jeni is setting Joe up to take a horrible fall...and as far as I can see, Joe was a loving husband to his previous wife, who died, and has acted in a loving way with Jeni by willing to get counseling and work on things...yet Jeni does not want to. What Jeni has done, her refusal to even admit she needs help, smacks of someone that is getting so much benefit from her behavior and the power she derives from it that she is unwilling to change. I don't think she is a borderline, either; I think she is a full blown N (or worse) and that she is evil. A borderline would probably not send her husband to the spare room. I think Jeni has APD.
I am sure that Jeni was abused as a child and that her first marriage was awful, but she is not willing to do any of the footwork that it takes to heal and also to have a healthy relationship. The difference between you and Jeni is profound, as if the difference between the people on this board and the N's in their lives. No doubt all the N's have had trauma in their childhoods too. Despite, or because of their trauma, people like Jeni and the N's is identify with the abusers and take on abusive characteristics, take on the power of the abuser rather than admit that they might be abusive. They become very hardened....and narcissism, like alcoholism, is a progressive disease, which is why it gets worse with age. It is also the N's who will scream loudest about being victimized.
Lkie you, I was married to an alcoholic; he was more high functioning than most of them, but he could not go a day without drinking, and when he drank, watch out...he became more hateful and rageful than he was without the booze. It took me a long time to realize that my ex was an alcoholic. He had a whole repertoire of addictive behaviors, including rageaholism, workaholism, being abusive, being cold, never admitting to any fault, taking off for the night or locking me out of the house if I disagreed with him...and he eventually molested my daughter after I left him. My parents were alcoholic, so I am an ACOA, and I had an extremely traumatic childhood. I went to Alanon first and then realized I had a problem with alcohol too, so I have also been in AA for years. Like you, I left my husband and realized like you that "The buck stops here." Yes, I was a victim, but like you, I realized that I was responsible for getting my life and my soul back together so I wouldn't pass it on. On the other hand, despite years of entreaties from me, my ex refused to get help. He has never been to counseling, except for one session we had together with our daughter's therapist, and he refused to see that therapist again because she told him that he was controlling, abusive and that he was refusing to let go of me, instead using our daughter as a pawn. My ex would be the first person to scream loud and long that he was a victim and he used his woundedness as another way to hook me in. My ex is an N and has APD. If he could get away with murder he would. His only fear is that of discovery.
Like Jeni and you, I hung in for a long time. I didn't hang in simply because I am a hopeful, good, loyal and trustwothy person, although that played a part. I hung in for some selfish reasons like being scared to leave, economic security, not wanting to admit failure or that I had made a mistake, not wanting the world to know that I was being abused, not wanting to deal with my own issues and drinking problem. My ex could also be very charming and exciting to be around, and that hooked me in. After being terribly abusive, he would shower me with gifts, or we would take a trip to Europe...and that hooked me in. I also hung in because we had a beloved dog that I did not want to leave. I hung in because I was totally confused about reality; like many people, I looked really good on the outside and I was very invested in that. I didn't realize that truth often has very little to do with how things look. Even though I was in an awful situation, I was deriving some perceived benefits, so I didn't want to leave...until it got so bad that I could see that I was reliving my parents' marriage, which became glaringly obvious after we adopted our daughter. I also hung in because of the erroneous messages I had learned in my family and because I wrongly believed that I had the power to change others. (What a shock to discover I don't....
) When I left the marriage, I was shocked to discover that I had even taken on some of my ex's characteristics, like workaholism. I was a f*cked up mess. I don't see hanging in with an abuser and alcoholic as an act of courage and selflessness, but I have seen plenty of unrecovering co-alcoholics, both men and women, use it as a form of moral oneupsmanship. Hopefully, they will get past that and realize that it takes two to tango.
I remarried several years later after intensive work on myself. One of my major tasks in the new marriage was
not to bring the garbage from my first marriage into the relationship with my new hubby. There were times when it would have been very easy to do that. Right after the wedding, I got this overwhelming feeling of being trapped and had the urge to run...and I had to work very hard to realize that it was coming from my own past trauma and had nothing to do with my husband.
I don't know if full-blown narcissists can ever get well and it is not the responsibility of someone who is involved with an N to stick around to find out, despite the fact that narcissisits were victimized kids. I know that alcoholism is curable...and that alcoholics were victimized kids. I don't think the victims of a practicing alcoholic need to stick around to find out if they will sober up and change, either. I know that PTSD is curable, but once again, I don't think that anyone needs to hang in if they are being victimized by the woundedness of someone with PTSD.. We know that BPDs were victimized kids and some of them are curable, if they are willing to do whatever it takes, but nobody should have to hang in with the crazy behavior of someone with full blown BPD. In any case, when people use their wounding, their past traumas, to remain a victim and therefor hurt others, why hang around?
However, as I have said several times, I don't think Jeni has BPD. I believe that anyone who is incestuous with children or who uses kids sexually has APD, which I know
is not curable. Jeni is using her kids in a sexual way. I don't think Jeni can be helped. It's too bad about the kids, but Joe needs to save himself. If Joe hangs in because of the kids, or because Jeni was a victim in the past, which she will probably use as a hook, he will be destroyed.
