Facing the monster

[Cadbury]

My head is a little insane at the moment and my computer isn't showing the last response thing, so I am answering "blind" and trying to respond to everyone. Thank you all for your wonderful responses, you all help me so much.

Vunil - I think your ideas are good, I  was kind of thinking along those lines anyway. In actual fact the time that contact has been arranged is right when my son should be having his nap, so he may well be a little cranky. He is only 5 months old and I just don't like having to put him through this. I am hoping that my ex will (as many of you have suggested) lose interest when he realises I won't fall for his power games.

Mum - I don't think I will ba able to get a no contact order. If only... He is a convicted child abductor, he has two convictions for actual bodily harm and that is still not counting against him Doesn't seem fair at all, but there we go.

(Can't see any further back on previous posts, so winging it from here on!)

I will definitely be as phony as I can, I WILL NOT engage and all those other things that he loves. I will stay distant and civil at all times and hope to God that he loses interest in all of us.

I definitely think I will have to ask for 2 weeks notice from now on. I just worry about court and all that. I feel stupid having jumped as quickly as I did, but I thought that may look better to the judge. I just don't know. I will be thinking of you October too on Saturday. If it helps, the way you cope with your situation gives me strength

He sent me this email just now ( obviously I have blanked the various identifying bits ):
Hello*Cadbury*,

How is our son?
Does he need anything?
Is he siting up and eating?
I don't have a camera, do you still have your digital
one?
If so would you mind taking a few photos on Saturday
for me please?
I don't know whether to bring *his other son* on Sat it
may be best to wait until next time.

*Tithead*

Like he couldn't get one of those disposable cameras for about £5? He asked me about two days ago how "our son" was (I didn't blank that out - he never uses his name. Always "our son". This is an improvement - we used to have how is "baby" ) Also, our son is 5 months old, why would he be sitting up and eating? He is a baby!! HE always has this thing about achievements, the things he says his first son did would have gotten him in the record books...He asked me if he was crawling 2 months ago. So far I just send short " *A* is fine, weighs x amount" emails back, but I think he is now starting to cross boundaries so I have not responded to this one and don't intend to. What do you all think? You are all fabulous to help so much. I just can't believe how easily I struggle to cope with this emotionally with just one trigger from him.

thank you all (again) x

[October]

I definitely think I will have to ask for 2 weeks notice from now on. I just worry about court and all that. I feel stupid having jumped as quickly as I did, but I thought that may look better to the judge. I just don't know. I will be thinking of you October too on Saturday. If it helps, the way you cope with your situation gives me strength

Actually, thinking about it, perhaps request for three weeks' notice.  That way, if anyone squeals, you have room to negotiate down to two weeks without losing ground.   

As for Saturday, and seeing me cope, well, I don't know if this will help or not.  Well, I rang ex tonight, and he sounded p****d.  For a man with such severe medical problems, this is not a good thing.  So I am ringing him again tomorrow night, and if I get the same feeling about him that I did tonight, we are not going.

He always gets confrontational after a drink. He said, you are just looking for an excuse not to come and see me.  I said, I don't need any excuse.  If I decide not to come, I won't come.

I told him that C was concerned too, because she had spoken to him as well, and he does not sound right.  He told me 'that is her problem'.  She heard him say it, and is really furious with him for putting the problem onto her.

I know your situation is not the same, and that you have courts and judges involved, but there is something I always remember, when dealing with difficult situations; it is far easier to get forgiveness than permission.   

In other words, I would say, if you need to do something on your son's behalf, however much other people don't like it, then go ahead; you are the mother and you are allowed to do that.  Don't wait for permission first, because you may not get it, or it may take a long time to achieve, and meantime you are suffering. 

Set the rule yourself; three weeks' notice of any visit from now on.  Give him this in writing on Saturday, with your reasons, and let him challenge it in court if he dares.  If your reasons are all about the advantage for your son of being prepared for a visit, and not having sudden changes of routine, then that is going to be hard to fight.  Especially if the father hasn't turned up most weeks.

I would say, consider taking the initiative, and setting the rules.  If they are reasonable, and you can show that you have your son's interests at heart, the other side's solicitors may argue against this, but they are unlikely to win.  Imo, what will look good to the judge is a mother who cares about her son, and who sets reasonable boundaries to invasive or inconsistent behaviour by the father.

[Brigid]

Cadbury,

I love your pet name for your n sperm donor.  I'm sure it fits him to a T (or tit as the case may be  ).  I think you are making good choices and decisions for the sake of your son.  All of the suggestions made have been good and you just need to concentrate on keeping a very calm demeanor.  Do not engage him, don't tell him anything he doesn't ask about, keep anything having to do with the future very vague, and be as indifferent to him as you can possibly muster.  This may be a performance of a lifetime (I know, math is your thing, not acting--but fake it as best you can  ), but the more you can do this, the more likely it is that he will get bored with the dance and go find another partner.

I keep you two in my prayers.

Hugs,

Brigid

[vunil]

Sitting up and eating!  Tell him that, yes, you often go to fine restaurants and you are pleased because the baby is now fluent in french and can order wine for the table.

Actually, of course, you are right not to respond.  I wouldn't do things for him, either, he will like that and you don't want him liking the visit.  Tell him you don't have a digital camera (or that it is broken).  I have found that catering to N's makes things worse.  They are always nice (or at least nice-ish) before they get awful, so his "interest" worries me.

[Sela as guest]

.........the baby is now fluent in french and can order wine for the table.

 

Gave me my laugh for the day!  Too funny Vunil!

  Sela

[mudpuppy]

Hey vunil,
 
Don't forget, if Cadbury tells Tithead 'his' five month old son is fluent in French he'll probably actually believe it and claim he taught him everything he knows while they were crawling together a couple of months ago.

If so would you mind taking a few photos on Saturday
for me please?

Hi Cadbury,
Wasn't it you I suggested send a picture of a baboon to your ex nut and tell him 'here's the chip off the old blockhead' a while back? Here's the perfect opportunity. He's begging for it.

mud

[Cadbury]

You all make me feel so much better! I had to laugh.

Sitting up and eating! Tell him that, yes, you often go to fine restaurants and you are pleased because the baby is now fluent in french and can order wine for the table.

So funny Vunil! I was thinking about it! I told him that our son  (A) is close to crawling, which is really quite early. He said "Well, I crawled at three months, so that's to be expected" ... Of course he did.... I just smiled and nodded, smiled and nodded ......

I definitely think I will have to ask for 2 weeks notice from now on. I just worry about court and all that. I feel stupid having jumped as quickly as I did, but I thought that may look better to the judge. I just don't know. I will be thinking of you October too on Saturday. If it helps, the way you cope with your situation gives me strength

... there is something I always remember, when dealing with difficult situations; it is far easier to get forgiveness than permission.

Wise words, thank you October. I have told him that I need notice as to whether he can come to contact of at least two weeks, which he has agreed to. The important difference is that I am going to mean it

Do not engage him, don't tell him anything he doesn't ask about, keep anything having to do with the future very vague, and be as indifferent to him as you can possibly muster. This may be a performance of a lifetime (I know, math is your thing, not acting--but fake it as best you can ), but the more you can do this, the more likely it is that he will get bored with the dance and go find another partner.

Thank you Brigid... I did my best. The best acting I did was when he told me he had been hit by a car last week... I didn't even smile! I acted vaguely concerned "oh dear". When I got home I told my mum and laughed myself silly. Sounds cruel, but the thought of someone driving at him was just too much. Apparently it has been caught on CCTV ... now there's a Christmas present I really want!

Wasn't it you I suggested send a picture of a baboon to your ex nut and tell him 'here's the chip off the old blockhead' a while back? Here's the perfect opportunity. He's begging for it.

Yes, Mudpuppy, it was! It made me laugh then and it made me laugh now! In the end I just didn't bring my camera at all and didn't mention it.

So... the conact wasn't as awful as I though it would be. Mostly thanks to all of you calming me down before hand! I kept as distant as possible. Sat right by A so he wouldn't worry about the stranger with him. I was polite, but as distant as I could manage. Tithead (TH) hadn't seen A for 4 months and brought him absolutely nothing. Not a toy, not a present, nothing. Well, what did I expect?

He talked about himself for ages, but it wasn't as bad as I had anticipated... which worries me.

[mudpuppy]

Hi Cadbury,

He said "Well, I crawled at three months, so that's to be expected"

No doubt he delivered a lecture at Oxford at four months about his crawling at three months.

I'm very glad things went better than you anticipated, and I wouldn't worry about it one bit.
Just shows you're stronger than you think.

mud

[Hopalong]

Cadbury,
Sounds as though you were truly in control, and your response to the accident story was MASTERFUL. I really believe that the more you practice this "dull politeness" the easier it's going to get. I'm totally impressed by how you've internalized some new, self-protective behaviors. What's more I think that although the "non-reactive" stance may feel like it's not really you right now, after practicing it more, every single time, it really will become you. You'll actually BE underwhelmed, not overwhelmed, and actually feel not much of a reaction to him (except boredom, irritation, which you can successfully hide, as you've just found out).

Congratulations to new on a brave and competent and sane, sane new course.
Nothing's going to stop you now!

Hopalong

[October]

Welll done, Cadbury.  I am pleased you survived so well.

(Our own contact did not take place.  C didn't want to go, so we didn't go.  I rang and told ex that we are both tired of running after him, and responding to his dramas, and decided that enough is enough.)

[Cadbury]

It is so nice to be somewherre where everyone sees through him and understands what being with an N is like. My friends try, but they can't seem to grasp the fact that he doesn't react as a "normal" person does to any situation. My mother still takes all his vicious little acts personally and gets so upset and annoyed by his behaviour. She cannot believe he can do something totally cold and callous and then carry on as if nothing has happened. She doesn't understand that it isn't personal to him, he moves on so easily because there is nothing behind any of his actions. No emotion at all.

Thank you for all your words of support. Mudpuppy - you made me laugh again!! Hopalong - I tried so hard to keep polite distance and it wasn't too bad. He was acting as though we were together again and trying to create that special bond that he generated for our relationship. HE asked me if I had felt anything last Saturday around 12. When I said no, he gave me his "look" which means "you say that, but I know the truth". That look used to terrify me, now it makes me laugh.

October - I am glad you didn't go running to your ex, and even more glad that it was your daughter who made that decision. It means she isn't falling for his various manipulations. She is so strong for 12 and that is down to you. Be proud of that!

I keep going over the contact in my mind. Mostly analysing his behaviour to look for signs as to what he may be thinking. I have to laugh at a lot of it, it helps me cope. For instance he wore a suit and tie. Only an N would do that. We were sat in a church hall, with some dear old lady volunteers and some other families meeting children. He wore his best suit with a silk tie. A ate it. Why oh why would you do that? I *think* it is because I once said I liked him in his suit. So there you go... perfectly apt place to wear it, to see your 5 month old baby. Eating it was about all A thought was appropriate I think.

Lots of Nish things happened. I know all about him, all about his life at the moment. Everything he does or has done. How great he is. How hard he is finding life at the moment. He wrote his car off a few weeks ago apparently. blah blah blah. You will all be relieved to know that after watching me pull up at the kerb, my driving was deemed to have improved. Why thank you oh king of the road. How was it you crashed your car exactly sir? !!!

Then last night I received this email:

Thank you for today,
it was nice to see A.
I hope you didn't feel too awkward.
I'm glad you went to the houses of Parliament, must
have been quite a thrill, well done.
Hope the girls are doing well and S likes school.
I hope you don't think I was picking any negatives out
with A, I sometimes joke and people take it
serious, he has a lot of your enduring qualities, I
hope he doesn't have any of my bad habits.
I hope I didn't make you late for your mother, I
rather like your enthusiasm for shopping and buying
things, it's refreshing and bright.

Tithead

C was very interested.


Is it the most patronising thing you ever read? I note I have enduring qualities... not endearing, but enduring. If he wasn't so perfect I would have said he'd made a mistake ... My enthusiasm for shopping and buying things is "refreshing and bright"... not necessary and essential then?!!! Oh the joys of Nism!

That's all for now, but thank you all again for your responses, it means so much to have this sounding board. I don't feel half so insane!

[mum]

Nice job, Cadbury. You have "endured" this N contact with good humor and your head held high. Yes, I agree, it's great to have a place to go where people understand the "N effect".  Your children are very fortunate. You are a remarkable individual....and a great mom.  Love to you.
(oh, and I love how his email "approves" of you ....his way of being nice....poor guy, he just doesn't get it!!!!)

[Cadbury]

Thanks Mum!

Well, I had to meet him for mediation yesterday... that was ...interesting. It was refreshing to see that he ios as muc ha tit with a stranger as he is with me. The mediator starts by writing some information about both of us on a flip chart as background. He starts with TH.

MEDIATOR: So TH, you are 39, unemployed and ... *Interupted*
           TH: Well, I am a single parent, not unemployed, I don't like that term. I don't feel it applies to me. I don't like being labelled                   like that. So yes I am a single parent, not unemployed.   

MEDIATOR: With respect, I do deal with single parents who do work, so it is just a description...


The whole meeting was like this. Not one answer TH gave was straightforward. He is such an idiot. I felt so sick even talking to him. We have another meeting in 4 weeks after we have had a little more contact. I hate the thought of it even, but I suppose A will want to know his father, even if I don't want it to happen. I am so utterly sick of him, I wish he would just go away. I know I've said that before, but God... I hate him.

Anyway thanks for listening again

[mum]

What a moron, huh? It's pretty amazing to me, but they still get rights and still get to walk the earth, and as my second husband used to say: "it's not illegal to be an A**H***!" So true.
My ex did that same kind of double talk in mediation...
They really have no clue how they appear. They think they are smart, witty, wonderful, and if anyone thinks otherwise, well, then the N is just a "victim" of other bad people who are stupid and mean... Everything is twisted, nothing is straight.
But what I have decided, is that my children will be wonderful because of who their dad is....or despite it, I guess. Just like my trials and tribulations have led me to a better understanding of myself, so will the fact that they have an N father.
good to hear from you Cadbury. Keep hugging those kiddos!
Mum

[SurviveAndGrow]

Cadbury,

You can do this!  Think he is nobody (there is nobody inside himself).  You're a good
mother.  He is just a fake.  Fake father, fake lover, fake everything.

I just want to push the idea of Vunil about diapers.  My N hates diapers.  But still she
needs to change them by herself.  It might be one of the most terrible things for her.  I
suspect that I can extrapolate and that it must be traumatizing for ANY N.  Being a father, I
wasn't really excited about diapers before having my own children (I'm not excited
about them now It's just neutral ).  So, I guess your male N could be traumatized too. 

If your child is thirsty, the N might be able to give a bottle and soothe the child.
If your child is tired, the N might be able to put him asleep. 
Diapers... They need to do it.  It is dirty.  Hard to be proud of.  They question
themselves afterwards...
Try to combine all of it maybe, this will give you some flexibility.  If you son was
fussy and the N put him asleep and want to show that he is great you could just say
'Of course, he was ready to sleep.'

And keep the distant politeness (Great idea!).  Your N will probably bring great gifts.
You do not care.  If he dresses your child in cute little clothes, you do not care (you
can be proud and admirative of your beautiful child AFTERWARDS).  Don't take
pictures of him if you can.  Don't use your own camera.  Don't promise to send
things afterwards.  Don't engage if your N tries to bring old or new painful subjects
(you can say: ' No, I forgot.' if he tries to remind you of old stories.  Or 'I don't
know' or 'I will see' or 'certainly not', etc...).  If he says you're beautiful, you do
not care.  If he says you're not (I am sure you are), you do not care.  If he brings
you a present.  Take it, put it aside (don't throw it, just put it aside).

If he says 'I would have done better if I had seen this child more', you could
say something like 'They are all the same'.  If he asks you if your child is great,
better than others (more beautiful, quieter, stronger), etc... Just say 'No'.  If
he insists 'He must be better'. Just say 'No' again.  I know it is difficult for a
parent but in front of him, just remember that your child is soooo common.

You are not required to give more than the visit.
He is not allowed more than the visit.
He is probably more scared than you.
There is a limit in time.

About the E-mail he sent (I didn't read all the posts, I am not sure if you answered already)
vs 'How is our son?', 'Can you take picture of us?',...  you could just answer 'I don't have
my camera' or 'Take your camera'.  No need to answer the other questions...

If you think you made a 'mistake' during the visit.  DO NOT WORRY.  Take it as
something you learned.  E.g. if you say that one of the toys is great, at the next
visit (if there is another one) if he brings the subject of the toy, just say 'Which
toy?  Oh yes, I do not remember...'.

You will do great !

SurviveAndGrow.