Emotional disloyalty is abandonment -

[Sallying Forth]

The reason that I asked for comment was that I saw Joe's predicament as an example of 'emotional disloyalty' which was the subject of this topic. I started the topic because someone suggested that 'emotional loyalty' was a suitable topic ..
I am interested in everyone's opinion on the Joe and Jeni wedding day issue. Was there some emotional disloyalty or not?

She walked inside with Joe and he said ."It all looks ready -we can start the reception now."
Jeni replied ." We are all having such a nice time outside -they are not ready to come inside yet."
Then she turned away and just walked outside and continued to chat with her guests leaving Joe standing in the hall waiting. He said that he did not know what to do next so he walked out to the carpark,had a smoke and walked back inside the hall,and had some coffee and just waited for another twenty minutes until Jeni decided that she and her friends were ready to party.
He told me this story with a mixture of bewilderment and resentment. He felt that on his weeding day the Jeni had put her relationship with her friends ahead of him and he felt like walking away.

I see two possible scenarios here.

He could have gone with her to talk to her friends. He seemed anti-social, escaping to smoke because she walked away. There appears to be a lack of communication from both parties from the beginning.

Was there a specific time frame for the wedding? With mine there was. There was a schedule as the reception hall was rented for a specific time. There was a sit down buffet dinner. etc. If that was the case then his new wife needed to go with that prearranged schedule and be gracious with her new husband. After all we are to foresake all others and cling to one another. Seemed like she clung to her friends and shirked her relationship with her new husband.

I am sure the wedding was NOT the first time something like this had occurred.


Was it emotional disloyalty? Were any of those friends male? If so, her actions might be considered emotional disloyalty. At least for me it would be because she placed them before her husband.

[David P]

Sally, I think that you hit the nail on the head twice in your post above.
Firstly your comment about this kind of thing happening before is exactly right. There were several previous incidences when Jeni turned to others over Joe.
Secondly, I agree that she placed her friends before Joe - on her wedding day!

Joe is not taking all this too well and IMO the marriage will fail soon because of Jeni's habit of making others a greater priority than her new husband. Sad!

David in TX.

[Brigid]

Dear Mr. Self-Absorbed,
You know that mom will always love you, but I think some tough love is in order and you need to wake up and realize that the world does not revolve around you.   

The check is most definitely not in the mail and get your own damn tires.    BTW, where is the money coming from for spring break?  Don't look at me. 

Your loving mother,
Brigid

[mudpuppy]

Hey Sis,

Since you're cutting David off do you think you could spare a little change for me?

Poor Brigid. A self absorbed son and two needy brothers; mudpuppy and longtire.
Wait a minute! If David is Long's son and you're Long's sister then......hey, there is something seriously wrong here.

Either we're all part of that family in 'Deliverance' or this is 'As the World Turns.'

mud

[David P]

Hey Mom, that is kinda mean about the tires. Like, you have plenty of time til spring break to get the money and all, so it's not like I am dumping an urgency on you.
And as for the 'Mud' and the "Longie' ,well y'all are older and more adult that I am, so can you get all this family stuff figured out without my involvement.I have real big 'issues' down here and I cannot get into this family stuff right now. So Mom think about the tires again please. The keys might be under the bed, and you can look thru my room but remember that I do stiil own all the other stuff even though I left 6 years ago, Please don't give my stuff to the Goodwill coz I might need it when i get off campus and get my own apartment. I do love you Mom and you are really cool. Much better than by bioMom and I owe you so much coz you turned me around . I was a 12 year old,selfcentered 12 year old who only thought of you are a provider of stuff and now I am 27 and much more mature ,as you can see and hear for yourself. So have a fine day Mom.

Your academically brilliant adopted son who needs a tiny favor.
David.

[Brigid]

Dear Brother Mud and Mr. Smartie Pants,

(I'm not ignoring you Long, but the thought that you are my brother and the father of our wayward son is too disturbing to address, although having a relationship with a much younger man could be interesting)

And as for the 'Mud' and the "Longie' ,well y'all are older and more adult that I am,

David, dear, thinking this was most certainly your first mistake--they might be older, but the adult part may be a stretch--at least where your muddy uncle is concerned. 

Since you're cutting David off do you think you could spare a little change for me?

What do I look like (well you don't know that, but pretend you do), the local bank??  All you gentlemen (and I think I am being kind here), need to get off your lazy behinds, get real jobs and stop looking for handouts.

David, I'm sorry but I needed some extra cash to pay your tuition for the last 10 years, so your room has been rented out.  Whatever was under the bed when you left has found its way to the local landfill.

All the best,
Mom

[Dawning]

I like the title *Emotional disloyalty is abandonment.*  It is going somwhere in my apartment.  I can already see it on the bathroom mirror.  How long does it take us ACON's or spouses of N's to get it through out thick skulls? 

Thanks for sharing your story, David P.  I hope that couple works things out. 

Dawning.

[David P]

Dawning, thanks for agreeing with me  -I love that! As children,we had no power to change the situation that we were in or to leave and go live someplace else. As adults we do.I have a theory that self-absorbed people will emotionally abandon those who are in relationships with them,and that this will happen sooner rather than later

A friend of mine name Mike has been dating a girl called Sue and last Saturday they were with our crowd at a Salsa dance. Sue is a superfically a nice,sweet, but self propelled girl who kinda likes things all her way.Recently Mike has had a few bad breaks and Sue is acting more off-handedly toward him.
Anyways he and Sue were sitting at our able near the dancefloor and Mike stood up to stretch and moved to stand behind Sue and watch the dance action.Sue swiveled around and barked at him,
" Move away, if you stand there nobody will ask me to dance!" He looked shocked and bewildered.
He asked me later if I detected anything wrong or different about Sue and then told me about the incident above. I said that she was insulting and emotionally disloyal and was treating him like a pest. He thought that I was judgemental and asked me what I would do if that happened to me. I said ,"If a women said that to me I would have only one thing to say and that is Goodbye."
I see Sue's behavior as emotional abandonment and probably the first of many further and similar incidenences in the future. Mike is still bewildered but is slowly 'getting it.'( I hope)

David P.

[SurviveAndGrow]

Hello,

Dawning, I just read your recent 'experience'.  I agree with everybody.  Congratulations.

David, I am a bit concerned about your example of emotional disloyalty.  Is it normal
for children of N to show such disloyalty? 

Example:

Say that Jeni was ACON and your friends Jeni and Joe had explicitly agreed before the wedding
to move everybody inside at 5 p.m. and that at 5 p.m., the N parents of Jeni are outside making a
show (say telling a story) -and almost everybody else is bored or hungry.  It's time to go inside-. 
Then, same story.  Joe goes inside, Jeni joins him.  They exchange the same words except that
before Jeni's last sentence, Joe says explicitly to Jeni that she promised that they would move
everybody inside at 5 p.m..  Then Jeni goes outside, and sits quietly and listens to her N parent,
do not notice any of the bored people.  Then it lasts for one hour or so until the N parent decides
it is time to go inside.  Then, after the wedding, Jeni explains that she stayed outside by respect for
her parent.

Say that this is recurrent...  Would this be a normal behavior of ACON.  Could it be changed?

SurviveAndGrow.

[David P]

Dear' Survive and grow' .In respect of jeni and Joe, there was no precis  time set down for the guests to move inside. The point of my story was to hilight Jeni's behavior towards Joe after he had inspected the setting inside the hall. Everything was prepared for the party to begin but Jeni walked back to her friends and left Joe spinning his wheels- on his wedding day.
Do you see what she did as emotional disloyalty or abandonment.? He does and it is causing hi pain.

A wedding day is about a man and a woman getting married to each other. Jeni seemed to miss that point and, I am told by Joe that the marriage is in deep trouble because she seems to treat him like he is a barnacle on the side of a boat( the boat is her all important life)
Men and women wreck their marriages in different ways,and I related this staory as an example of how a woman can harm a relationship to the breaking point.

BTW what do you think about Mike and Sue?

David P.

[miss piggy]

Hey DP,

Just chiming in on Mike and Sue...

As a very nice girl myself    I could never figure out why guys go for girls like Susie Q here.  I mean, some guys seem to like their woman being bitchy to them.  It's either the Taming of the Shrew, Playing Hard to Get, or Gee, She Reminds Me So Much of Mom...is she rich and have a large trust fund?  Sorry to be cynical but some guys will put up with the worst behavior to marry into the "right" family (in their thick heads).  Or they are just used to it. 

I would have been embarrassed for Mike had I been sitting at the table with Sue.  Ouch.  If your friend thinks you are being judgmental, well, didn't he ask for your judgment?  Duh. 

MP

[SurviveAndGrow]

Hi David,

Hmm, my fault.  I wasn't clear enough.  I was concerned about another story...  It was
rather a question: 'Is emotional disloyalty common from ACON's?'.  I then changed a
little bit the situation of the story of Jeni and Joe (I should have used other names).
In a nutshell, same story but the lady is ACON.  The guests outside are not particularly
having a good time (Not that they have a bad time. They would rather move inside.).
A N parent is outside running the show.  Maybe knowing that the bride and groom
had agreed to have everybody inside at 5 p.m..  The bride and groom discuss and
remind themselves that they had agreed on the time.  Still the bride 'discards' the
groom and goes outside for an hour or so...

OK, I wanted to know if this would be a reason to worry.  I got my answer indirectly
in another thread.  I do not need an answer on this anymore... And I am glad I
don't (Thanks ).

Now, I would agree that if this happens over and over again (in the case of Jeni and
Joe), it is a reason to worry if they do not manage to discuss this and if it is a problem
for Joe.  If it had happened once (even on their wedding day), it would probably not
have been a reason to worry too much.  She might not have done it 'on purpose',
women have a different sensibility than men about wedding (with all respect to
everybody), etc...

Concerning Mike and Sue...    Mike,... run !     (David you can forward him the
message if you want )

SurviveAndGrow.

[David P]

Hi S&G , thanks for your posts . I think that it is common for SOME ACON,s to imitate their parent's behavior, however it is not universaly seen or compulsory to do so. They have a choice to model themselves on more healthy individuals.

I still would like to pass on to Mike the opinions of the ladies on the Forum about Sue's behavior. He is unsure about his 'feelings' not what he should do. He feels that she 'discarded' him and treated him like a nuisance. Emotional abandonment? Do you guys agree? I agree with him but he is looking for a female opinion.

David P. in TX.

[DifferentDrummer]

Hi David,
IMO, Sue treats him like this because she can get away with it.  She doesn't respect him and is just hanging around until someone better comes along.  She is also on a power trip because the fact that she can treat him like garbage and he still hangs around is a testament to how wonderful she must be.
DD

[Plucky]

Not to be contrarian or anything.....

Had anything else transpired before the incident with Mike and Sue?  for example, did he refuse to dance with her?  Or flirt with someone else?  Had he just been going on about an old girlfriend?   What is the context?
Plucky