Need your advice - quick!

[Healing&Hopeful]

Ok ok folks I need your help.... things are changing very quickly here at work and I'm soooooo scared, but in a good way...

Ok... breathe!

One of the guys here is leaving to join another part of the business.  I briefly spoke to the girl he works closely with to see about the possibility of moving into the resourcing side of the business... she recommended speaking to the manager there, so I emailed asking for a meeting and we spoke today.

He said he was planning on speaking to my immediate boss anyway, to see if there was any possibility of asking if I would be interested.  Now I've gone through these channels myself, I've kind of undermined my boss.  The manager and my boss are in a meeting as I speak and I am so scared!!!!!  I dread to think what mood she will be in when she comes back.

While speaking to the girl he worked closely with, she said I should ask for more money..... how do you ask for more money????  I don't even know for definite that I'll be offered it, although it does look pretty positive at the moment.  I should know for definite by the end of the week....

Please help me to approach the subject of money?  My trouble is that I never think I deserve more money.... so how do I go about this?????  And what if I can't do the job.... I asked the manager if he thought I could do the job and he said, yes, as long as I put my mind to it.

A very nervous H&H xx!!!

[Portia]

Hiya H&H this is good news!

Money. Every job has a price attached. You get paid for doing the job. They are not paying you for being YOU. They’re paying you to do the job. Huge difference.

What’s the job paying at present? What was the previous incumbent paid? Will you be paid the same? If not, why not? (For example, they might say he was more experienced or better qualified. In which case, I’d – in my dreams – ask for a 6-month salary review. If in 6 months you’re doing the same job to the same level as him, then you deserve the same money. Get the 6 month review in writing, otherwise it might not happen.)

Why do you think if you are doing a different job – why do you think you would get the same money as now? They’re not paying you to be you. They’re paying for a job to be done. You’ll be doing a different job, ergo, different money!

Now I've gone through these channels myself, I've kind of undermined my boss.

Nope. You’ve seen a possible opportunity and enquired. Okay it would be good etiquette to tell your boss you were going to see the other one, but hey, sometimes we don’t have time! Sometimes we’re bad mannered! “Sorry I didn’t mention it to you first. I hope that didn’t cause you any problem?”

You can act on your own. You don’t need anyone’s approval but it’s nice to keep others informed so that they don’t feel ignorant.

If someone else thinks you can do the job, that’s all you need. If you completely screw it up ( !!!!!) you can ‘blame’ him for his misinterpretation of your talents and skills! I’m joking, but it does sound as though you are seen as an asset there. You are valued – so make sure you’re paid for what they value in you. Good luck!

PS in all negotiations, keep quiet and LISTEN to what they say and offer. Then say 'hmmm' and see if it gets better! If you don't like what you hear, say so, calmly and logically. This ain't family, this is work and work is based on money. Usually!

[Healing&Hopeful]

Hi ((((((((Portia)))))))))

I didn't bring up the subject of money in the meeting I had earlier.  I won't be doing the same job as he was though, as the girl he works with will be doing that, and I'll be helping her with resourcing and doing the recruitment part of his job.  I can see BCR (basic rates) which employees earn (we have to be able to see them as it's a project based company and we see the basic rate that they earn and the UCR rate which is charged to the customer... mine shows 13 and his shows 18 but I don't really know what they mean and how they relate to the actual wage received).  In the meeting the manager did say this would be a step up, and my yearly review is due in June/July time anyway.  Our company are good at keeping up with their reviews, and I think I have one after 8 weeks in the role anyway.  Also, the girl he works with is going on holiday for 3 weeks in Feb, so there's a lot to learn and not much time... not helped by my current boss being on hols for the last two weeks of Jan.  No hols for me!

My boss is back.  I'd like to approach the subject with her, but it's tricky with it being an open plan office.  It would be good that people don't find out either until it's finalised.  The main reason I didn't raise it with her beforehand is because I wanted to see if there was the possibility of being considered and I didn't know until this morning if that was possible.  Then the manager said he would talk to her and asked me not to.

I'm just unsure that if they don't raise the subject of wages in the next meeting, how I go about approaching it?

H&H xx

[Hop guest]

Just some thoughts in case any help, once you edit to fit your own needs--

"I am really glad to have this opportunity as I've been ready to take on new responsibilities, and it's also appropriate that now I'll be paid at the 18 base rate."

(I'd advise no more insecure comments like, "Do  you think I can do the job?") You don't have to come on too strong or fake, but you are clearly competent or he wouldn't already have been thinking of you for it.

Instead, how about: "Now that I've thought about it a bit, I am confident that I'm up to the task, and I'm pleased that the company is giving me a higher salary. That's been an issue."

"That's been an issue" is, imho, a fairly quiet way of asserting yourself. Sort of saying, I have not been satisfied with my pay (and they could therefore conclude that they may lose you if they don't pay you properly along with the promotion).

If it's an open plan office, feel free to ask your manager, "Could we step into the conference room and talk in private for a few minutes?" Nothing unprofessional about that request, they shouldn't expect people to discuss salary in public.

GOOD LUCK H&H!!!!
Can't wait to hear!

Hopalong

[Healing&Hopeful]

Yes Hoppy.... you're right... do you think I can do the job is a negative question... I didn't think of it like that.  I did tell him lots of positive things about my last role which he didn't know, as it was a very similiar background.  Some great comments there Hoppy, thank you.

It's good that I've got the support of the girl he works with, as I'll be working closely with her so that's a big plus for me.  It's a very different role for me though and one I haven't done before, but I do like a challenge so that's another bonus for me.

Also, the girl he works with told me that no one else within the company has expressed their interest, and I know they are on a short timescale, so recruiting outside would be difficult.

I plan to speak to my current boss first thing tomorrow morning.  We are the first ones in the office so it will work well then, as today she was away from her desk alot afterwards, making it difficult to ask to see her.  She did look quite upset.  It's difficult because she's been in her role for years and is very particular about how things are done.  I found it quite hard to meet her expectations and have the enthusiam for my current position which I've been doing for almost a year and a half now.

I'm assuming the new manager has spoke to the director, otherwise I don't think he would have spoke to my current boss.  So it's all looking really positive.... only two more days to wait to find out for definite! xx

[SurviveAndGrow]

Congratulations, Healing&Hopeful !

It seems that the sun is shining brightly.

I am not sure you even need to speak with your current boss.  It seems to
me that your potentially future new boss will just speak with you (he even asked
you to not speak directly with your current boss... So...) in the coming days, so
why worry about your current boss is thinking, etc... Just wait for the offer .

In terms of negotiations, etc... A few things that I heard or read  and that have helped me...
- 'Oh you still have scruples about doing a job.  When you have, other people
less competent with less scruples will do the job at your place.';
- 'Do not worry about being good enough.  We all do.  The only fact that you reached
this point and that people think that you are good enough means that you are good
enough.';
- 'I asked for a good salary.  If deserve it.  If I take care of myself, it is a sign that I
will take good care of the company.'.

I might even recommend you to not worry about salary.  This should come up in the
discussion from your new boss. He he ...  I cannot stop smiling... This sounds all good.

So... Relax... You are good, they want you... 

Don't get pulled back into the web of your old boss.  Stay nice (polite) with her.  Nothing
more.  (You can use the tricks like 'Oh, could we speak of this next week?')

Enjoy ...

SurviveAndGrow.

[guest444]

Dear H&H,

I don't have any good words of advice as I'm very bad at asking for money, interviewing, etc --most people are typically nervous about this.

But how exciting!!  I am very excited for you, I hope you get the job

[Plucky]

H&H this is great!

Tips:
"What is the salary for this job?"  Then don't sday anything else, until there is a response, no matter how long it takes.   If there is any response other than you are getting a big raise, go on to say.
" I'm willing to work extra hard to make this transition work, since x will be on vacation for 2 weeks and y will be going out in Feb.  I know I can make this work but it would be best if I started now.   I know the current pay grade is 18.   Will it stay there or is there going to be a review?"   The burden will be on them to 'explain' why you shouldn't be paid as much as anyone else doing the job.   Yes, the job's a little different.  That old confusing tactic.  Don't be fooled.

As far as your old boss goes, isn't that the difficult one?   And haven't you just done an end run around her?  So, why do you care what she thinks, again?  I forgot.

Salary has not much to do with your worth.  Remember that.  If you've ever played any board or card games, it is more related to that.  To how much you can bluff and play your hand. The idea is to get a lot.  As much as you can get without it becoming a problem later.  It's a game!  You can live on your current salary, I imagine.  So anything more translates to spa days, premium chocolate, and vacations in Portugal.  Or donations to Oxfam, buying organic cotton jammies, and that month at an ashram.  Depending on your taste.

Good luck
Plucky

[Healing&Hopeful]

 
Thank you S&G, Guest & Plucky....

Plucky... I love your "What is the salary for this job?"  That sounds perfect.  And yes you are right, I can live on my current salary, so I guess any extra would be savings/pension that kind of thing.  Why do I care what my old boss thinks?  Well, I've worked closely with her for a year and a half now and she's a nice person.  I know she's particular and likes things done a set way, but on the whole she's a nice person and because if I move across I can't see them recruiting for my replacement in time which will mean she has extra workload.  On a personal level her dad is sick and her mum has dementia so she's trying to sort out care for them too, and I know she could do without this at this present time.  Also, the other thing is that if I move across, I'll still be in the same department and sat at the same set of desks as her, so it's important for me to keep things friendly.

I asked to have a quick chat with my present boss this morning, so we grabbed a meeting room.  Glad I did as it cleared the air, and also I could find out a little of what the new manager had told her.  So all I'm waiting on is for the new manager to speak to the director.  My current boss said that this could go either way as the director can blow hot and cold, but she did also say they would be silly not to accept because it would take them much longer to recruit from outside and with the other girl going on holiday, they would have a problem if they didn't.  I get really impatient though and hate waiting like this!
 

Fingers, toes, legs, arms.... heck, everything crossed!

H&H xx

[Hopalong]

H & H,
How kind of your current boss to be your ally and advise you to accept it. She surely is a good person. And how kind of you to be concerned about the impact on her, thinking of all she's coping with.

What sounds best about all this is that your value is increased no matter what happens, and you come off as a great, valuable employee either way.

I'd bet my toes you get the new post, your current boss is congratulatory and understands, and you get more money too. (Hope you throw most of it at a pension. It's horrible to reach 50 and realize you've had no plan and you've blown it.)

Hugs and premature congrats,
Hopalong

[Healing&Hopeful]

Well... the director said yes and it's with the director of HR.  I've just spoke to the new manager and I asked about the salary increase due to what he was saying it being a step up.  He said that because it was a new role for me and as I didn't have any experience, it was negative at the moment.  I have a performance review in 3 months time to see how I'm doing.

I also asked about a start date and leaving my old role.  There is to be a transition period of 3 weeks, starting Monday... eek.  So not only will I be doing my role, and my current managers role, I'm also supposed to be learning a new role for two weeks.  I asked about a definite date when I will hand over my current role which he kind of ummed and erred about.  I said that if I was going to do this I needed to concentrate fully on the new role, especially when my new colleague will be off for 3 weeks.

This is beginning to become a nightmare.  I can already see issues which will happen where my current boss will still want help, and I'm supposed to be doing a new role and covering for holiday.  3 full time jobs.  It doesn't help my current boss has said that the last two weeks of the month aren't as busy... which they're not, with the exception of holidays.  I really don't know how I'm going to manage this and do a good job!!!!

[Hop guest]

Don't panic, H&H!
This happens all the time...I'm in the exact same situation (doing old job plus tryingn to start new job PLUS training someone to take over old job).

I think it might help if you write a list of your old job duties.
And one of your new job duties.
And one that covers the in-between parts.

Then give it to everyone.

You can keep saying (happily, still positive attitude)--I want to be sure we set this up so  expectations are realistic, because I am eager to suceed. But let's keep in mind that it's looking like two jobs at once right now. So how do we structure my evaulation so that I can succeed, because if my workload has doubled while I'm taking on new roles, that slows my progress in the new role. I understand it may have to be that way if we don't have the resources, but I think it's important not to leave it vague. Let's define things clearly so it will be a win-win transition. How do we structure this so my performance will be measured realistically?

If you take a calm, grownup, logical approach...they'll be even more impressed, because you're showing the strategic thinking and "big pciture" approach of a manager. Very nice!

Whatcha think?
Hops

[Healing&Hopeful]

Thanks (((((((((Hoppy))))))))

I've sat with the new manager while he did the timescale.  I did also say to him that I wanted to make it really clear that when K goes on holiday I could not do any of my old responsibilities.

Very good idea about writing a list of job responsibilities.  That makes a lot of sense and would be really helpful... and would let them know exactly what I do!!!

Maybe time to book a week off in March... I think I might need it!!!!!!

H&H xx

[Plucky]

Yay, H&H!  good going.
I must have you mixed up with someone else who starts wth an H.  Glad your current boss is nice.   Did they say you are not getting any raise?  I'm not clear.  Anyway it sounds like a good thing all around.  Happy for you!
Plucky

[Healing&Hopeful]

Yay, H&H!  good going.
I must have you mixed up with someone else who starts wth an H.  Glad your current boss is nice.   Did they say you are not getting any raise?  I'm not clear.  Anyway it sounds like a good thing all around.  Happy for you!
Plucky

Hi Plucky

Yes, they said I'm not getting a raise... however I have a review in 3 months time so do have the possibility to bring the subject up again then.

H&H xx