Author Topic: Confusing Situation! Need Advice.  (Read 2061 times)

Surrounded

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Confusing Situation! Need Advice.
« on: January 10, 2006, 02:23:59 PM »
Advice please.....!!!!

I moved last year in June and did not tell my parents that I moved.  I just couldn't bear having them over to my new house and sit there and apologize for my entire life and my new home..... again.  They have made it a habit of dropping in unannounced or insist on visiting on my kids birthdays because my N mom was ignored on her birthday because it was Dec 24th and now she won't rest until she invades everyones life so she can get some "personal gratification" by bringing a meaningless trinket to the grandkids--or kids--whatever the case.  And then proceeds to ignore the birthday person while she babbles on about herself. 
I look back and I can only see the things she has done throughout my entire life have only been ultimately for herself. " Look at me everyone---I'm perfect!"
Anyway---I could go on...but back to the current episode.

I have always been the "pretzel"  child who has done everything "just right" (by observing her judgment of others) so as not to upset her or be judged by her.
Since I moved away and got married 16 years ago, I have mostly just pretended to be whatever she needed when we talked which hasn't been that often.  Before that, I knew no better.

So, she finds out I moved 3 miles away from my current home.  (Thanks sis) I finally call her, out of guilt, and she is SO icy cold, SO mean(obviously she is livid)...so I ask....

"is this the way it's going to be?  I reach out to you and you are going to treat me like this?  Why are you so angry?"

"What do you mean?"  she says.

Keep in mind, I have never crossed her before, at 35 with 6 children of my own, I haven't dared.

"I'm not mad"  she insists.  I know better.  An idiot could feel the coldness.  She also likes to pretend she is conveniently deaf because she really doesn't give a ______________what others have to say. 

I tell her to stop pretending she can't hear me. I politely tell her I moved and was calling to let her know.
She hates anyone to admit they know she is hard of hearing even though it is so obvious.  Cause she's perfect ya know. 
After a few minutes of the same... I yell  "Fine, Mom, you will see me when you see me then"  and hang up.
I guess I finally cracked.

Well, I haven't spoken to her yet and that was August.  She did call my phone and leave a message saying she" apologized for whatever she did that made me angry"  Still blaming me for being unreasonable.  Still not owning her behavior, only doing what she thinks she has to do to cover because she realizes she has finally pushed me too far.   

I have stayed silent.  Mad, yes.  (Actually I have sounded a lot like Sela's recent P'd post  in my mind over and over again)I do not want to play nice and pretend anymore.  Not wanting to let her get away with it any more.  I have wanted to ignore her and my entire family but I have worried if that made ME an N.  I have written terrible harsh rants and explanations on my computer knowing I will never send them.  I'm too nice, besides she will never understand anyway.  Or even try.  It is so frustrating.  Anyway, I am trying to get some peace in my life.  It's actually been nice without having to worry about those uncomfortable visits and  calls.  Very nice.  I just realized the other day that not once in my life have i been glad to see them(my parents).  Ever.

OK--so Christmas week comes and my sis calls to leave me a message about a family holiday/Mom's birthday party at mom's on-----Christmas Eve.  Absolutely NOT.  I have made it very clear over many years, that Christmas Eve is for my husband and kids.  We have simply refused for years to go to parties on this day.  We want to spend it with our kids and traditions.  Actually, I think my sis, who is enjoying stirring up trouble for me, did it on purpose to make me come across as the villain.  I actually called her after I hung up on my mom and told her too much crap about how I felt.  She has obviously broken that trust and told the entire family what I said.  Pretty sure she is an N too, by the way.  Different than mom. But still an N. 

Among those things I said was that I did not want anything to do with any of my brothers, parents, or her any more.  I was sick of it all.  They were driving me crazy and I wanted to move on with my life.  She has always claimed that she gives a crap about me, but only calls when she wants to use me.  She has called to pretend she wants to do "lunch" since, but it is only feigned attempts to cover her own butt and so she can blame me when I politely refuse.  My brothers all seem to be mutes married to varying versions of our mother.  Mutes like my dad, who although can sometimes be a real ass in his own way, I think at least he is mostly afraid of my mom and her wrath. Not an N.   So he is just depressed and checked out.  Sleeps a lot and doesn't talk--never has.  Claims he has narcolepsy, but I wonder if it is a just good escape.  Still doesn't justify ignoring me as a child.  hmmmm.....

So, I send an email to sis apologizing I cannot attend.  Very nice and simple.  I send a card to mom and a nice gift card to her favorite store for birthday/christmas.  Nice and simple, not a nasty hint of anything.

So, Christmas Eve morning, my kids open the front door to....a porch of strange little "presents" all wrapped for the holiday and a few for the birthdays that she has missed of my kids and ones she assumes she will miss coming soon.  One is mine----and attached is a letter.  I feel guilty, ticked off they violated my boundaries, bad for my kids cause they don't understand, kinda creeped out...etc.   I don't want to read the letter because I want to be mad and I don't want to be manipulated by her words---- because I mistakenly think she is capable of really caring.  My husband tries to talk to me, I am getting mad, she is starting to ruin my holiday just as planned.  Husband feels bad for THEM.  (He kinda tries to support me, but he doesn't understand---she has always made herself look too oblivious to be as awful as she is)

Her letter gives me just what I needed, I can't believe it.  I finally drove her to let out a glimpse of her real self in writing so at least he could see and start to understand what I am dealing with.   (Husband is quite another story---I don't want to be paranoid, but you guessed it, I married one too--an N that is)  so I feel like I am fighting on all fronts.

 The letter:  In summary----very formal tone--as if this is business.
First P:  Of course, the we love and miss you line.----as she knows is expected by all.
2nd P:  Pretending to be wise and learned, but really chastising me for being difficult.
3rd P:  Key words: ... disappointed,  blah, blah---you are punishing and unfair to dad and your family because of me (me, me ,blah, blah, me,me....). "I apologized, but you won't accept that.  Your anger will only hurt you."
      Note:  Still all about her.  And my anger only hurting me I see as her way of saying---you can't hurt me.  You aren't hurting me.  This is the key paragraph.  The rest is the babble she knows is expected of her as the mom-type-person.  ("mom-bot" I like to say)  Besides, the only reason any of my brothers would be hurt is if she and my sister were telling lies and gossip to them and painting me out to have turned on them so they will be on her side.  Otherwise, our relationship would be the usual cold, weird, uncomfortable silence it has been for years.  Who needs that?
4th P to end:   Back to the obligatory "we love and miss you and hope you are safe and well.  We don't care who you are or where you live."   
      One thing that set this all off is my knowing that she will not approve of my new respectable home in a respectable neighborhood.  A "move up" so to speak.  She hates people who strive for anything besides squalor.  "Poor but proud"  seems to be her motto.  She even stopped talking to her brother because he was successful.  I will not attend her church anymore either.  They are nutjobs. But that is a totally different story.  Think I need a support group for growing up in that religion too.  Anyway, my point is... I know I am nothing she would approve of and I won't apologize for it any more.  I have lived a very respectable life, but will never get credit for it because I didn't do it her way.   (church-mouse poor & brainwashed)  I just need to get away.   
I feel very sorry for that feeling, I feel guilty.
And finally---My Question:

I want to send a letter, but I don't want to be rude or give her any excuses to "show" anyone how awful I am for defending myself.  I feel like she has showed up to my door, a bullying sneak attack maneuver, in an effort to kick a sleeping dog in order to get response from me.  I feel like telling her to respect my boundaries and stop bullying.  Because this sleeping dog could bite.  I have restrained myself for a lifetime.  I have restrained myself and stayed away from family functions so as not to cause a fight these last few months.  Maybe she should try some restraint.  Maybe my sister too.  She seems to be having way too much fun, seeing and helping her obedient sister fall into bad grace with the family.
Or should I just tell her(them), I am not comfortable or ready to talk with her or anyone right now, and I am sorry if that is hard for her(them).
Or shoud I stay silent.

I don't know and it is driving my crazy.  Any advice would be so much appreciated.  I am just realizing and reading up on this Nism and am still quite new.  I never understood her before until recently.  But reading your posts when I can has already helped me like you would not believe.  Thank you so much!  My husband won't talk to me about it.  He tries to monitor my computer use, I think he knows deep down I am figuring him out too.  Him I can deal with for now,  he's not dangerous, just manipulative.  I just need some helpful ideas from people who won't judge me.  It seems anywhere I turn, I have no allies.  This has been a hard pill to swallow so I try to be a healthy as I can for my kids and not do this crap to them as well as save them from their fathers Nisms.  I have bent myself into a pretzel to please him since I tried to leave my mom's sickness 16 years ago.  I am taking everything day by day.  Minute by minute.  Trying not to fall apart.  I do feel at times like I am going crazy though.  My mind races around.  I feel like I am pacing in my head.  The confusion, the turmoil, the self-doubt. I have told my husband I need therapy (for years actually).  He nods, but won't support it , I know.  I think he is afraid my eyes will be opened to him.......and I will get more of a backbone than I am starting to get now.  Wow, sorry about this going on for so long.  This is my first post and I am trying to stick to the basics.  Hard though.

Thanks for listening, it helps to get it out.  I feel not so alone.


miss piggy

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Re: Confusing Situation! Need Advice.
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2006, 03:02:30 PM »
Dear Surrounded,

Welcome to the board.  Well, you sound like you've had a bucketful of family interaction for the holidays!  I hate that passive-aggressive crap like inviting you when they know you don't want to come.  As if saying no to more crap is a crime. 

Well, my small amount of advice is to keep reading, keep posting, and find out what your insurance will do for you to help pay for therapy.  How do you know your H won't support it?  Just start taking the baby steps to wellness.

Hang in there, MP

Healing&Hopeful

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Re: Confusing Situation! Need Advice.
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2006, 03:22:06 PM »
Hi Surrounded

Welcome to the board... Confusing situation indeed.

Or should I just tell her(them), I am not comfortable or ready to talk with her or anyone right now, and I am sorry if that is hard for her(them).
Or shoud I stay silent.


Which do you think is best for you?  Take them out of the equation and what is best for you?

As MP says... small baby steps is the key.

You are strong and you can get through this.

Hugs

H&H xx
Here's a little hug for u
To make you smilie while ur feeling blue
To make u happy if you're sad
To let u know, life ain't so bad
Now I've given a hug to u
Somehow, I feel better too!
Hugs r better when u share
So pass one on & show u care

CeeMee

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Re: Confusing Situation! Need Advice.
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2006, 03:28:53 PM »
Hi Surounded and welcome to the board.  Good to see a new poster.

Your login name "Surrounded" is certainly what the whole post sounds like.  I've felt that way myself.  It is a dark and lonely place to be.  Thank goodness for the board eh  :wink:

Your decision to move and not tell your mom till you were ready might appear to some as inappropriate by "family standards" but like I always say, we are not dealing with normal functioning families much of the time.  More desperate measures are sometimes necessary.  Moving away and not telling anyone is a dream I often have but can't afford just now.  In the meantime,  I settle for  remaining out of contact with family for as long as it takes to get my reserves up again. 

Because your mom and perhaps the rest of the family don't see the relationships as dysfunctional, they may think that your move and silence about it is a personal attack when most likely, you just want to be LEFT ALONE (for a while at least).  Getting that across to them is hard to do but not impossible.  I have found that when I emphasise that it is for MY well being and don't mention anything about it being necessary because THEY are driving me nuts, they are more likely to accept and comply. 

What concerned me the most in your post was the part about your husband not supporting your need for therapy.  That would make anyone wonder about their relationship.  It's like a cry for help that goes ignored.  Sometimes, men are coming from such a different mental and emotional perspective that they really don't have a clue what it feels like being "surrounded." 

I had that same issue with my husband for a while until I made it abundantly clear that I needed help and he finally agreed.  Talk to your husband again and even if he doesn't agree, if possible, go ahead without his support. 

Like Miss Piggy said, keep posting here.  This board is truly a life saver for many of us.

In answer to your original question, I would say that it really depends on what you want to do.  What feels right and most comfortable to you.  And once you've made the decision, know that you have the right to do that.  Hell, when my head is ready to burst and I'm feeling ambushed it is all about saving myself at that point and if that means jumping in bed and pulling the covers over my head and not answering the door or the phone or whatever, I do that.  Sometimes is means writing a letter that speaks to just how I feel at that moment.  Sometimes I will mail it, sometimes I won't.  But it is all okay.  You are doing what you need to do to feel comfortable and get well again.

Looking forward to hearing how things go with you,

CeeMee


Carm

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Re: Confusing Situation! Need Advice.
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2006, 04:21:35 PM »
Thanks!!!  thanks SO MUCH you guys.  Just for "listening" or taking the time to reply.  Great advice.   It also just felt so good to write it out.  It has been turning around in my head for way too long. 

Your kindness is appreciated more than you know! 

Carm

Sela

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Re: Confusing Situation! Need Advice.
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2006, 05:19:00 PM »
Hi Surrounded/Carm:

Welcome.  Wow!!   You have your own herd of kids!!  That's amazing!!  What a busy mom you must be!!
I'm tired just thinking of the energy that would take!

Quote
I do not want to play nice and pretend anymore.  Not wanting to let her get away with it any more.  I have wanted to ignore her and my entire family but I have worried if that made ME an N.


I think I know exactly what you mean.  Everyone has a limit.....of how much they are willing to tolerate.....and then...bloop.......that's it.  It's all under water.  It's sink or swim time.

It's not N to want to save yourself from drowning or save your own sanity.  It's not N to want real relationships with people you respect and who treat you with the same respect.  It's not N to want to be away from relationships that are not respectful.  It's not even not nice to not want to play games and pretend stuff.....it's honest.    No wonder you don't want to keep doing all of that.

As to not letting her get away with it any more.......can you stop her?  Can you make her take responsibility?  Can you have any effect on her behaviour at all?

If she were a somewhat normal mother.......you might be able to express how you feel and she might actually listen.  But that's not the case is it?  SHE DOESN'T HEAR YOU!!  (Sorry.....for the hurt of knowing that).

Quote
I just need to get away.   
I feel very sorry for that feeling, I feel guilty.

It's ok to need space to save yourself from drowning in crazy stuff.  I'm happy for you!!  I'm so glad you moved away!!  I'm very glad you've got a little space now....where you can start to grow!!

Are you a bad girl?  Do you think you did something wrong?

I don't think so.  I think.....you did what you had to do to protect yourself and your children from any more invasions.  That's a good thing......a great thing, really!   You're not so bad.  That wasn't wrong. 

Quote
...feel like I am fighting on all fronts.

So sorry for that.  :(  That is hard and frustrating and very difficult, I'm sure.  Not fair either. 

But you've posted here....which is wonderful!  Good for you! 

You're thinking of options and that's much better than acting without thinking about it, or simply reacting.
So that's great too!

Quote
Or should I just tell her(them), I am not comfortable or ready to talk with her or anyone right now, and I am sorry if that is hard for her(them).   Or shoud I stay silent.

Quote
I do not want to play nice and pretend anymore.

"I'm not comfortable or ready to talk...."...........hmmmmmmmm..........too nice.

Silence.  Peace.  Quiet.  No pretending.  No playing anything.  Silence is golden.  Yesssirrreee.

That's my vote because it sure sounds like what you'ld really like to do.

Nothing wrong with that either.

 :D Sela

Plucky

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Re: Confusing Situation! Need Advice.
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2006, 01:55:15 AM »
Hi Surrounded,
I'm glad you found the board.  So much of what you wrote I can relate to.  You have got to be a very strong person, to survive for 16 years, and before that since birth, with no support, while raising 6 children. 

It is a very good thing that you moved and didn't tell them.  That bought you some peace for a while.  For some reason you phoned them and woke up the monster.  I think this is something lots of us do from time to time, once we feel the absence of that particular pain that is caused by living with Ns,  just to test whether it is as bad as we thought.  It always is.

You can respond or not but you know the result.   Mirranda - anything you say can and will be used against you.   Guilt has no place here.  Yes, you have been conditioned from birth to feel guilty for this and that.  But you are saving yourself.  As the primary guardian of your children, you must keep yourself healthy.  Your family have no role to play in your future healthy life.

So much of what you say and have done so far is very healthy.  But inside you are feeling the swirling doubt and guilt stirred up by recent contact with the monster.  Leave it alone, and it will die down some.   Therapy would likely help.  It will get worse before it gets better but with support you are on the path to happiness.

Ignore your husband if you can and go get counseling anyway.  Don't tell him if you can help it.

And come back to share more of your journey with us.
Plucky

Marta

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Re: Confusing Situation! Need Advice.
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2006, 05:04:57 AM »
Hi Surrounded,

It sounds to me like you are in a good place. You've figured out mom, are figurign out H, know what you can and can't take, been able to stand up to mom and say no at the age of 35, not bad at all.

I can see how much pain you are in and want to hold your hand. Take each day at a time and each family member at a time. Yes, get into therapy and don't tell H if you can help it.

Hugs, Marta

Surrounded

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Re: Confusing Situation! Need Advice.
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2006, 04:20:49 PM »
You guys make me laugh...and cry!  I love it!  I am actually not alone!  Wow.

Yeah... I know I really want to stay silent.  Peaceful. Calm as possible( with my brood).   I wrestle with the guilt feelings.  My husband asks me won't I feel guilty if my 77 year old mother 80 year old father die?  And I haven't spoken to them or made peace??  I told him I feel as if they are already dead to me anyway.  I have no connection now or have I ever.  That is how shut out from them I have felt in my life.  Truly voiceless.

As far as I am concerned she (mom) is a wolf in sheeps clothing AND a monster and I am not the one who has run out of time...they are.  My father is her accomplice.  That is what makes me mad.  They are that age and still acting like children and not even attempting to ask themelves the hard questions.   
I feel like I analyse every move  I make to make sure I am not being an N.  I totally can see where I have those tendencies and am willing to accept and change that.  I want to be well for my kids. 

One of my 5 brothers called last night.  I did not answer.  I know he is calling under the pretense of just saying hey.  Yeah right.  He is actually the only brother who talks much.   He is kind, but pushy too.  I know he will point blank ask me what my problem is.  I don't feel like getting into it.  I feel bad because I really have no beef with him and he doesn't deserve to be ignored, but I just can't talk.  He will probably also try to make me feel bad for "misbehaving".  He thinks he is the father figure who can talk to everyone.  He can't push me around that easily anymore.  Just shut up and behave.  That is my eternal message. 

I told my H the other day that every time he makes a comment about anyone or anything, I make a mental note. Aware of it or not.  To change myself in that way so as to never upset him in that way.  Which sucks because he critisizes everyone and everything it seems.   I have just become this crazy ticked off person. He doesn't get it.   Another side effect from dealing with these Ns. 

Once in a while, more often these days, he pesters me to the point I break down and then I look like the nut and he comes off as the hero for listening to me sob for a while(mostly about my mom---but I know he is sick of it).  Or if I tell him he is doing something to hurt me, he turns it all around and I end up apologizing to him for saying something at all.   After all, everything he does is for me and the kids.  So if he is an ass, it's for us.  Gee thanks. 

I got so ticked off at him the other day because he was trying to "help" me while I had the flu(throwing up and fever).  He helps by getting irritated cause i can't eat what he brings me to eat, then won't let me get up while he goes around the house doing all the things that he thinks I should be doing better or have been neglecting or telling me he changed this way or that way I have been doing things and" it is working so well".    I had to leave for a few hours just so I wouldn't yell at him for "helping me".  I came home and apologized to keep peace and be done with it and I find out he sat there with my kids while I was gone (which I very rarely do)and painted me out to be some kind of "nutcase" and him the confused hero .  I can't even explain it to him.  He doesn't get it.  He never will.  And at first I was so grateful that someone would be there when I puked (sorry--gross) cause I am so baffled still that anyone cares.  He is nice as long as its on his terms.  He's at least got that one on my M....she wasn't even nice.  Needless to say, I don't get sick that often.  It's better if I don't.  Don't need the drama. 

I am the one who disciplines the kids most of the time so he won't get into it cause them I know it will be a lot worse for them emotionally if he has to get into it.  Nothing major going on with them just day- to-day kid stuff.  He gets real pissed when things don't go his way.  We do walk around on eggshells so he won't get pissed.  I am reading up on BPD.  He is sounding a little like that too.  Still trying to pin him down--label-wise.  It would help me in dealing with him I hope.  I look like the jerk /bad cop to protect them from him.  I know they don't see it that way and I didn't realize it for a long time myself, but I know I am trying to do my best for them.   Even if I have to look like the jerk to them, I suppose I accept that.  I usually try to just keep everything together and shut up cause it is easier that way.  For now. 
Thank goodness I found you guys.  You are keeping me sane.  A place to vent.

Thanks again. 

Plucky

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Re: Confusing Situation! Need Advice.
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2006, 11:37:54 PM »
Hi Surrounded,
Maybe your H is not as bad as your mum.  But face it, 'nice on his terms only' is not nice. Period.  It is extortion.
Your children, even if they are in diapers, will not be taken in by any 'explanation' your H gives.  What a jerk he is.  How little he is actually contributing or 'helping'.  How tiresome he sounds.
Your brother may also be 'nice' but he is an agent of the evil force.  Avoiding him is perfectly ok.
How nice it would be to channel all that energy you spend avoiding, remembering, framing, tiptoeing, and do something good with it!
Plucky