Author Topic: Struggling with decision  (Read 27837 times)

Portia

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Re: Struggling with decision
« Reply #45 on: January 26, 2006, 09:17:50 AM »
About to shoot away but thank you Marta! :D I was thinking ‘hmm I’ve probably said way too much there and got carried away but hey, press submit and hope for the best’. As you do! So you validated me there and that means I don’t have to fret for the rest of the day about what I said to Plucky (well maybe just a little fret then!). Oh and:

Remember, one of the main characteristics of N offsprings is their distorted world view.
Me too. Still working on all that stuff.  :? Not easy. Two years and counting…. But only 2 years out of a life!

One distortion in yours has been noted by many of us--that is your tendency to take on more than your fair share of guilt.
We’re so good at that!  :( I’m great at it. I can feel guilty for posting! Used to. I can feel guilty for what someone else feels! Used to. It’s takes so much darn re-wiring the old brain cells. It's hard work.

Hey H&H. :D That hubby of yours is a keeper. He is just scrummy and lovely. “Tells me I'm his gorgeous sexy wife.” I love that. I love that sense of ownership when it’s real and appreciated and meant in a caring, supportive way. Instead of a using and abusive way. Intention is everything sometimes.

Okay I’m gone. 

PS. this warning word still annoyes me! Warning - while you were reading a new reply has been posted.  :P

Hopalong

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Re: Struggling with decision
« Reply #46 on: January 26, 2006, 01:06:38 PM »
Hey Portia,
The warning message annoys me too.

I think it seems to be saying: are you sure you know what you think? You wouldn't really say what you want to say if someone just added a different type of comment, would you? You'd be ready to bite your tongue and stuff back in your head the thoughts you were just preparing to share, right? You're not really confident of your opinions, eh? What if you make a MISTAKE??!!!!!!

I think it's stupid! But it's also silly that it bugs me. Like...I'm so hypervigilant to signs of being controlled or manipulated that I get pissed at an automated message!   :P

(You've got company in the second-guessing dept, but we're getting better, ain't we?)

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Surrounded

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Re: Struggling with decision
« Reply #47 on: January 26, 2006, 04:41:19 PM »
Hmmmmm......things my H does which are nice??  .........I'll have to get back to you on that one.  Some things seem nice until I realize they are just another ploy to control.  Emotionally.  Financially.  Physically.   Whatever.

Portia's quote:

Do you wash, dry and iron his shirts?
Do you wash and dry his underwear?
(Do you iron sheets btw? Is there any woman who actually does this?)
Do you cook his food?
Do you collect his clothes for washing etc?

If so: You don’t have to do any of this.

YUP.  I DO this crap.  (except for sheets, of course).  After all, [tongue-in-cheek] I would do these things IF I really LOVED him.  He doesn't quite come right out and say this, but do these people really need to SAY things to get their point across??  Not in my house.

I CAN list pages of one -liners about how mean and nasty he is to me and has been. through the years.  I'll spare you all that.  I am a person who up until recently would rather just forgive and forget.  I made myself start writing this stuff down and even startled myself at the extent of his childish behavior.

I am enjoying imagining a life without him.  Somehow the things I have worried about don't seem so bad. 

Oh, and (((((Plucky))))), this is from another thread of Hopalong's, so apologies all, but I too have tossed gifts from my mom.  I absolutely can't stand even signs of her presence around me at this point.  It must be a Feng Shui (sp?) thing.    Also, I don't have any friends left.  I have shut everyone out, by force and by embarrassment.  I have also made a stand in my community of cult (I mean, church) members who do surround me physically that I won't put up with their baloney any more either.  It seems I have found myself on the warpath and I have tried to go it alone for too long.  It IS a sink or swim for me.  Now I've just made myself sound like a REAL B haven't I?  I just finally feel if I don't take back my life, my mental and physical health WILL suffer.  Seems like a live or die situation in this case.  Bring it on.  I guess what I am trying to say here is that life is going to put us in front of a fork in the road until we learn to make the right choice FOR US.  For our health and sanity and self esteem.   Make the right choice for you and don't beat yourself up about it. 

And mum!!!!   Is it really possible to rekindle a past love or relationship???   Ohhh....tempting.   But, as Plucky said, probably unrealistic.

Sela

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Re: Struggling with decision
« Reply #48 on: January 26, 2006, 06:20:02 PM »
I would just like to say......that I do not,... nor have I ever,.... nor do I ever intend to.....


........iron sheets.



(but I'm thinking of asking my husband to do it................for Valentine's Day!!)

  :D  Sela

2224Jessica

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Re: Struggling with decision
« Reply #49 on: January 26, 2006, 09:49:52 PM »
Q. What does he actually do that is nice? (Let’s see the reality clearly here. Let’s check with each other and compare ideas, please.)
Hi Portia, It's heartwrenching when our husbands don't treat us the way we deserve.I agree with Healing and Hopeful. Caring about each other is vital and nurturing each other. My husband and I love to sleep in so we take turns getting up for the kids.. He also loves making a cuppuchino in the morning for us. We make an effect to smile at each other and greet each other with a hug and a kiss. He also comments on how beautiful and sexy I am too. He has terrible parents too so we rely on each other alot. Your husband being or doing something nice doesn't nessessary mean that he is nurturing the relationship. My husband and I went through a rough spot a few years ago and we were considering separating. He dictated to me a bit and I just let him dominate me (his mum is dominating). He did this and did nice things and didn't see my point of view and had rules and expectations that he thought I should be meeting (no teamwork). Eventually I told him that I had a right to have my feelings and opinions and he had no right to dictate my life. To make a marriage work, he needs to treat me equally and that his view on being "right" isn't as good as being "good" because the marriage wasn't working. My husband also realizes that women have different needs than a man and he sees that I need different things than him.
With the work thing, he works at home so he sees that it's not easy being a stay at home mum. We share all the money, after puting money aside for bills, rent, kids, etc we both have an allowance (equal) each that we can do what we want with...
I will definately not iron sheets. I don't even do ironing. I have a washer dryer too (best thing ever) I hang clothes up in the cupboard and iron clothes as we need it. He vaccums, thats something he likes to do to help. I cook, he's a bad cook. its funny. hes never ungrateful.  I'm no expert, I feel for you ladies being treated badly. I reckon the only real advice I could give is to go have a day just for yourself, maybe go with a friend. Buy a couple of nice outfits, buy some nice underwear, have a new hair style, get your nails done, get everything done at the beautician, wax, tan, facial, massage etc. buy some earings etc.

Top 10 Things Wives Want From Their Husbands
Guide Picks

From Sheri & Bob Stritof,
Your Guide to Marriage.

In no particular order, here are ten things that many wives want from their husbands.

1) Telling Her Daily That She is Loved
Everyone needs to be affirmed. Everyone needs to know they are loved. The best ways to say "I love you" are usually in simple, everyday, seemingly unimportant ways like an unexpected hug or holding hands when you walk together.

2) Understanding and Forgiveness
There will be days when your wife will make mistakes or when she will be difficult to be around. No one is perfect. She both wants and deserves your willingness to understand and forgive her. Remember that no relationship can be sustained without forgiveness.

3) Conversation
Don't let your conversations with your wife dwindle to nothing but talk about your kids, your jobs, and the weather. If that happens, your marriage relationship could be in real trouble.

4) Willingness to Make Time for Her and Your Children
Having quality time with your wife and kids isn't something that just happens. You have to make it happen by not only making the plans but by following through. Time with those you love has to be a high priority for you.

5) Saying "Yes" More Than Saying "No"
Habitual negative responses to your wife and kids can push them away from you. Think twice before saying "no" and you will be surprised at how saying "yes" can improve your relationships.

6) Listening Well
It's really disheartening for a wife to share her thoughts and feelings with her mate and then realize that he didn't actually listen to her. Your wife wants and needs you to not only listen with your ears, but to listen with your heart.

7) Affection and Kindness
How often do you say "please" or "thank you" or give your spouse an unexpected kiss? Unfortunately, some married couples forget that being kind and affectionate to one another are keys to a successful marriage.

8) Sharing Household and Child Rearing Responsibilities.
One of the main reasons couples fight is conflict over who is doing what around the house. Chores and child care are not the sole responsibility of your wife. She shouldn't have to ask you to do your share around the house.

9) A Day Off Now and Then
Give your wife a day off several times a month. This means that she will be free from worrying about what is happening with the kids, the house, the pets, and you. She not only deserves this break in her schedule, she needs it to be emotionally and physically healthy.

10) Commitment to Take Care of Yourself Both Physically and Emotionally
Many men are notorious for not taking care of themselves when it comes to health issues. This isn't fair to your wife. She is your lover not your mother. Take responsibility for your own health concerns.

This link is interesting too  http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8111_leave.html

WHAT SHE REALLY NEEDS!

Your wife's greatest need of you is that you make her the number one attraction of your life. She needs to know that you worship the ground she walks on, that above all others, she is the one for you. In short, a continual courtship.  Now don't take that beyond what I said.  Of course you have many other interests and other things to do.  But if you really want to get her attention you are going to have to make her at the pinnacle of them all.

Think of the time when you courted her, you know, in the beginning. You watched her every move. You thought of her constantly. You sent flowers to her work, and it wasn't even her birthday! You opened the car door for her. Listened more than you talked. You made sure you always looked good for her, that you kept yourself neatly groomed. You worked out, lost weight, sucked in that gut when she was around. She in turn bragged about you to all her friends, you were truly her "Knight in Shining Armor", the man of her dreams.

What happened between then and now?  It's simple, it WORKED! You caught her attention, you asked for her hand, she accepted and you whisked her away. It all seemed so easy, it seemed so perfect.  Men do things this way.  We'll do anything so long as the objective is reached.  But this is not to say we weren't genuinely in love or sincere.  It's just that when we have what we want we turn off the machine that got us there.

This is what usually happens when after you crossed the threshold, all of a sudden, you turned off the courtship machine. Well why not, you had reached the objective. Why continue with all that work?

So you stopped sending her flowers (unless you had too). You got into the car first, and forgot to unlock the door for "her side". (You might have even drove off if she hadn't tapped on the glass!).

You stopped grooming yourself.  In fact you rediscovered T-shirts.  You know, your favorite, usually unwashed for many months. You let the gut go (phewww!). You now began to talk more than you listened, and in fact you began to yell, constantly - more times that you spoke softly.

What was the effect of this?  You began to see a change in her. She began to rebel. She no longer looked at you with adoring eyes as if you were truly the knight in shining armor. Instead she began to talk to others about you as before, but it wasn't in glowing terms.

You might have heard her  constantly complaint about how you changed, how you are so sloppy and so inconsiderate and so on. In turn you began to get angry and sulky. "She doesn't respect me!" You lamented. "She just doesn't understand me!" You told the bartender. You started to confide in others, sometimes even in other women about "that such and such, so and so" you are married to.

When it came time to buy a gift it was for a reason. It was no longer a pleasure, but a duty to perform, and you even resented the fact that you had to do it. It showed too, she knew, she could see it in your eyes, she should sense it in the "thought" behind the gift.

Does this all sound all too familiar?

It should, because it happens a million times a day all over this country and in the world. It's why the divorce rate in the U.S. is staggering, with 50% of all marriages ending in divorce.

All because in the beginning we men had by accident, or perhaps by instinct tapped into the needs our women and met them. Then inexplicably we backed off and seemed to forget those needs altogether.  Rather we forgot the first need--that of EXCLUSIVENESS.

In the beginning we took the time to learn what pleased her. Now we take many things for granted. When it comes to telling her that she is number one, the only one you love, we don't. When confronted about this you get defensive, "What do you want from me?" "I work, I bring home the check, I buy the food, I care!". This as women say,  is "typical" for us. We equate love, care and concern to HOW good we provide a living.

It's good that you do all that, but that's not what she wants. She wants to hear you say, "I love you!" She wants to hear, "Your the only girl for me!"

So many husbands think that their provisional accomplishment translates into their ONLY statement of love for their wives, and while the SECURITY is important and one of her needs it means nothing without EXCLUSIVENESS.

Your wife loves and needs the fact that you are a good provider, but she also needs support and security on the emotional level. She needs to know that in spite of all and everything SHE is your greatest object of concentration.

Therefore the two basic needs of the woman are "SECURITY" and "EXCLUSIVENESS". Yes she needs you to be a good provider, but also a good friend, counselor, confidant, and pal. If you fulfill these needs, or even make an honest attempt, then the respect you crave and need from her will be automatic. Because you will have EARNED that respect.

Jessica :)

Plucky

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Re: Struggling with decision
« Reply #50 on: January 26, 2006, 10:44:16 PM »
Wellll.  This certainly puts my H's niceness into perspective.  Husbands are doing all that?  My H gets out of bed to get me a snack and I get all teary-eyed.  I'm a sap!

Plucky
« Last Edit: January 27, 2006, 12:56:04 AM by Plucky »

Plucky

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Re: Struggling with decision
« Reply #51 on: January 27, 2006, 01:05:41 AM »
Quote
Do you wash, dry and iron his shirts?
Do you wash and dry his underwear?
(Do you iron sheets btw? Is there any woman who actually does this?)
Do you cook his food?
Do you collect his clothes for washing etc?

Hahahahahaha!
I have given you all the wrong impression somehow.  I am going to have to disillusion you.
We don't even have an iron.  I thought we owned one, but when I was looking for it to do an art project with the kids, I couldn't find it.  They were all excited (mommy, what's an iron?).
He washes his own clothing, except the nicer things that might get ruined.  I was doing it too slowly.  I sort them sometimes, or not.  He takes his shirts out.
I do all the shopping and cooking.  He does the dishes.
I do most of the tidying up, at least what gets done. 
When we travel, I do the arrangements and the packing for us, he does his own packing.
He takes out the garbage.

Any questions?
Plucky


Plucky

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Re: Struggling with decision
« Reply #52 on: January 27, 2006, 01:18:05 AM »
My fear is based on the fact that I am creating the childhood for my children that I wish I had had.  Not the one I had.  So, it takes some effort.  More than if I was drawing on my past.  Add to this the strain of divorce and moving, my son's learning issues, and possibly financial stress, and the fact that I have no support from anywhere, except from here, plus I will have to give my children extra emotional support,  I just have to determine what and how to do to make sure I can handle the extra load.

I think it is reasonable to plan for the extra emotional fallout.  For this reason I am moving slowly.  Perhaps glacially.   Maybe it looks as if I need a lot of urging.  Maybe I do.  But the only gut feeling I have so far for sure, is to take it slowly and not rush into anythign I cannot handle.  My children don't need a depressed, depleted mother.

Plucky

Hopalong

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Re: Struggling with decision
« Reply #53 on: January 27, 2006, 04:03:27 AM »
(((((((((Plucky))))))))
Don't go any faster than you can handle. I'm glad you're looking realistically at your own limits and deciding not to leap into thin air before you have a safety net assembled.

Is there any single step you can take, that will connect you with support in your community? A group? A T? A ... women's center? A one-day personal growth workshop? Just one step that will make a slight change in your isolation?

Isolation is so big. Just one step in the direction of connection might help. You can take another one afterward if you want to, or not...somebody here also said "Doubt means don't."

If you have any doubts about your inner drive toward divorce...you can listen to them. It's okay to go back and forth. It's okay. You'll still wind up making the decision that makes sense to you and will be best for your children in the long run.

It can work out for them that they are watching their mother be a human being, and struggle, and grow. This is not a bad lesson for them to learn. You are being wholehearted about your struggle.

Hopalong
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Marta

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Re: Struggling with decision
« Reply #54 on: January 27, 2006, 06:25:08 AM »
Quote
Plucky:
Part of the problem is that I have no idea what is normal, since I have never seen a healthy love relationship up close.

vs.
Quote
Quote
When you've been only in abusive relationships, you CAN'T imagine what a loving relationship feels like --
Hi Marta,
Actually, I have had loving relationships. 

And plucky:
Quote
Hahahahahaha!
I have given you all the wrong impression somehow.  I am going to have to disillusion you.

Plucky, it eems to me that there is a lot going on in your mind and heart that is puzzling nd difficult for you. You put things out there but when others answer based upon what you've written, you seems to be saying that no, it is not me. It is not me who's not seen a halthy, loving relationship upcloe or it is not me who's taking on more than my fair share of housework. Could it be that you are identifying your defense mehanism?

Quote
My fear is based on the fact that I am creating the childhood for my children that I wish I had had.  Not the one I had.  So, it takes some effort.  More than if I was drawing on my past.  Add to this the strain of divorce and moving, my son's learning issues, and possibly financial stress, and the fact that I have no support from anywhere, except from here, plus I will have to give my children extra emotional support,  .

1. Financial situation will not get any better if you stay on in hte marriage, for (a) you are depleting your savings. (b) you have mentioned that your husbad is ruthless in business, he has accepted that youre marriage is over, and hence will be planning the settlement before you do. Anyway you can stop using your savings right now?

2. Son's learning issues is a real biggie. I can see how that could occupy your attention full time for months. I too put that as my first priority if i was in your shoes, and everything else on the backburner, depending upon the severity of the problem.

3. Lack of emotional support is also a very difficult thoing to deal with. You are definitely going to need more support if you are going through a divorce, especially because then you will face pressure from additional fronts too like mom. What do you think can be possibly done to change this? Getting a faily T, like you'd mentioned earier, is a great idea but it may not give you enough emotional support for yourself. Do you ever think about getting a T just for yourself? I can't imagine how else I'd go through a divorce if I was in your shoes.

Quote
I just have to determine what and how to do to make sure I can handle the extra load

I agree. Planning and setting priorities are really exellent ways to move forward.

Quote
Maybe it looks as if I need a lot of urging.  Maybe I do.  But the only gut feeling I have so far for sure, is to take it slowly and not rush into anythign


Plucky, To be fair, I have seen urging here on the board for only two things: (a) To confront the issue *emotionally*, and clarify whether or not divorce is the right thing for you, and if you think it is better to stay, enumerate your reasons for thinking so and put your fears on the table. (b) TO protect yourself financially, by preserving your savings and consulting a lawyer to protect your interests. (c) To find emotional support, may be get a T. Nobody has urged you to take any other action or make a decision quickly -- of course these things take time, a long time, and without being prepared, the results could be disastrous!

 

« Last Edit: January 27, 2006, 07:52:23 AM by Marta »

Brigid

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Re: Struggling with decision
« Reply #55 on: January 27, 2006, 08:50:39 AM »
Plucky,
IMHO, whether or not you are washing and ironing his underwear is really not the issue (I know you are not doing this).  If you really love someone and they are returning that feeling of love and attention, you would probably not mind ironing the underwear if it made your spouse happy.  How people show their love for each other is individual and private.  For some it's between the sheets and for others it may be in the kitchen or laundry room (and I don't mean during the spin cycle  :wink:), but mostly it's a combination of all those things.  The bottom line is whether you feel valued and loved and small kindnesses don't have to be asked for.  Also, that after a period of time together, your spouse understands what things you appreciate and they continue to do those things after years of being married.

We all will feel undervalued at times and know that there are times when we have to give more than we are getting during a marriage.  The key to the marriage being successful, however, is balance and compromise.  You seem to always feel undervalued and taken for granted.  I always did too.  How long you're willing to feel this way is something only you can determine.  If your h is not showing you value now, it is unlikely that is going to change unless he is willing to work with you in counseling and that both of you really want change to happen.  If one or both of you do not have your heart in trying to save the marriage, then no amount of counseling will make any difference.

I agree with Marta that no one here is trying to push you into any kind of decision.  You asked for stories and we have shared them.  No one will tell you that getting a divorce is a walk in the park, but we have also told you that there can be a new life after divorce and it can be much sweeter.  You don't appear to be in any danger if you stick around, so you can take as much time as you like, but at the very least, look at your situation clearly and completely and figure out if you want to still be there 10, 20 or 30 years from now.  If not, figure out a plan to make it change--one way or another.

Brigid


Sela

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Re: Struggling with decision
« Reply #56 on: January 27, 2006, 10:52:56 AM »
Hi Plucky:

I laughed 
Quote
I thought we owned one, but when I was looking for it to do an art project with the kids, I couldn't find it.  They were all excited (mommy, what's an iron?).
:D :D

So you're not Susie Homemaker then eh?  No eating off your floors??  Mine either.

A woman I worked with years ago said to me:
"Never let household chores come ahead of time with your children.  I would never put a household chore ahead of time with my children!"

She was an older woman.....kind of motherly and to be honest....I probably needed a figure like that to give me advice at the time.  I took her words to heart and my house has never been the same since!

It's good to set priorities like that Plucky.  I get the impression you have yours in order.  Good going.

Sorry you may be feeling pressured a little.  Hey!  Maybe that's a good thing?  Something else to look at the why's of?   What statements generated that feeling and why do you think? (for you to consider....not a real question eh, if you don't feel like answering here or if I'm totally out to lunch..which wouldn't be the first time).  Hope I didn't say anything that upset you and I'm sorry, in case, because I sure don't mean to do that.  Sorry Plucky.

Anyhow.....I was thinking:

Quote
My fear is based on the fact that I am creating the childhood for my children that I wish I had had.  Not the one I had.  So, it takes some effort.  More than if I was drawing on my past.  Add to this the strain of divorce and moving, my son's learning issues, and possibly financial stress, and the fact that I have no support from anywhere, except from here, plus I will have to give my children extra emotional support,  .

So what you are really struggling with then is this??

1.  To stay and continue creating the childhood for your children that you wish you had had.

VS

2.  To leave and create a childhood for them that is far from what you wish you had had because you will end up being a strained, tired, financially stressed, emotionally drained, depressed, depleted mother.

??  Is that close?

Your fear is totally understandable and valid.  I bet many of us who have struggled with the decision have been afraid of the same things.  I know I have.  For me.......it didn't end up that way at all (#2).  As I said....the weight that was lifted was a huge relief.  Maybe for you, it doesn't feel like that.  I was a strained, tired, financially stressed, emotionally drained, depressed, depleted mother while I was married, for years ....until, as I said....Alanon helped me change my attituxde.

But for you Plucky?  Maybe you don't feel like that now at all and so your fear is that you will feel like that, if you decided to go it on your own? 

Those 2 choices seem reasonable?  Does number 1 need refining?

1.  To stay and continue creating the childhood for your children that you wish you had had, while modelling what a married relationship is like.

What do you think?  Is that a fair statement?

It's a good thing to take account of the situation and try to list the pros and cons, gains and losses, advantages and disadvantages of your different choices.   Nothing wrong with that.  It's a good idea, imo, that will help you make a decision.  And ofcourse!!!

Take your time is absolutely the best thing.  You have a good gut, Plucky, because it's telling you the absolute best thing you can do........take your time.

Is there possibly a number three?

3.  Get outside support for you so that no matter what you decide.....you won't feel so alone?

Have you ever been to therapy or a counsellor before?  I'm just wondering if you have any fears about that?   I agree with the idea that isolation isn't the best thing for you, no matter what you decide.   I also know how scary it is asking for help.  But having a real live person supporting you will help you whether you stay or not.  It's one way to prevent a lot of number 2 and to possibly influence number one.

((((((Plucky))))))

Glad to see you posting.  It's good to air out your thoughts and feelings......worries, fears, hopes, dreams.

Wishing you a peaceful day.

 :D Sela


Plucky

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Re: Struggling with decision
« Reply #57 on: January 27, 2006, 06:27:53 PM »
Thanks everyone for being there still as I vacillate and reflect.
Marta I can see how that would seem contradictory.  Maybe I can clarify.    As child, I did not witness a good marital relationship up close.  Even now, I have friends who are married, not good friends, more of acquaintances.  But I cannot tell much about the marriages, just that they seem closer than we are.  Some seem worse off.

I have had good relationships but did not go too far in them, as they scared me to death.  They did not resemble the sick scenarios I knew to be real relationships.  Unless there was something awful about it, I thought I did not deserve it and therefore it would soon end anyway.  So I bolted.

I do harbour resentment for my H due to the household work.  But that doesn't mean I'm Suzy Homemaker ironing sheets.  Much of it relates to the children, not the house itself.  For that reason it's hard to outsource.   He does do things, but it's mainly his attitude that causes the resentment.  One item in the 10 things women want was not saying No all the time.  All of my suggestions and ideas are usually met with No, initially.  These are things we need to do or the children need, but he vetoes because it is more work for us.  Then I have to campaign and convince.  In the end we usually do it, but it's tiring.

I'm just thinking things over and trying on different ways to understand it.  I'm glad I have you all to help.  The help is making it all work through for me.  If I am dithering and contradicting myself, well, I'm not perfect!

Plucky

Surrounded

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Re: Struggling with decision
« Reply #58 on: January 27, 2006, 06:39:15 PM »
Don't cross the river if you can't swim the tide, babe!!

Hang in there---you will.    You are on the right track!


((((Plucky)))))

sjkravill

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Re: Struggling with decision
« Reply #59 on: January 27, 2006, 08:54:14 PM »
Hi Plucky
I can relate to struggling with such a decision.  However I do not have kids.  I have been married for almost 4 (overall miserable, with definite nice moments) years.  You read my post about friends on the help board.
Some people say struggling with the decision is the hardest part.... It is definitely exhausting!
Here are some strategies that helped me in the process.
Try deciding to stay and living with that decision for like a week.
Then try deciding to leave and living with that decision... make notes of your thoughts and feelings each time.
My process of letting go was gradual... I had to mentally deal with the fact that I would be displaced for a while... My beautiful house that I decorated would not be mine.  I would have to let go of going home at the end of a day, eating my own food and sleeping in my own space...
I had to let go of the friendly aspects of my NH... the good times were inextricibly linked with the bad.  I had to accept that I could not have one without the other...  
I also had to think about finances (and that is not yet settled) but in the end the feeling to leave became so strong that I was able to do the letting go that I needed to do.  It is indeed a process that everyone goes through at their own rate.
Divorce is hard, and especially with kids, I imagine...  The grieving process continues for me, but I am at peace with my decision and I am feeling hopeful about the future (most days).
Regardless of what you decide, you need a good social support network.  Friends and family to help take care of the kids, good listeners, and a really good therapist.  
If you decide to go through with a divorce you also need a lawyer that you can trust.  
Peace Plucky! Sjkravill