Author Topic: weekends w/NMom  (Read 9533 times)

Hopalong

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Re: weekends w/NMom
« Reply #30 on: January 26, 2006, 07:11:41 PM »
Hey Seasons,
Yes, it bothers me, since she was secretive once before with estate planning and now if she wants to get closer to my brother because I've pulled away...they indeed could "gang up." But she can do want she wants with her property. I wanted it to stay "home" but it really is just property.

Even if they do...the worst that could happen is I endure the weirdness. And move on. I have nothing much to lose. If I stop letting the fear of losing the house dominate me, there's nothing anybody can hold over my head.

I am trying to focus on finding a new job. I don't fear theft or anything. I don't know what my brother could do to me. If he comes here and stays again, that would be hard. But he'll come eventually. I hope by that time the atmosphere has eased. If it has not, I'll call my minister and ask her to come over and help us work through some of these things. And I think neither my mother nor brother would refuse that.

I THINK she was probably just writing him one of her distraught preachy things about family, but maybe she was sending some sort of document (a copy of the will?). I don't know and would like not to care. She did say (I believe her) that she's been awake since 2 a.m. because she's so worried about my brother and me. What she means is, she was horrified to discover the depth of my resentment and rage and now realizes there is no friendship between him and me. (She's always, always prattled on about it, but I think it's just now dawning on her that talking for years and years about a mythical family closeness has not made it happen--she's lectured and sermonized me and my daughter to death, and now she knows the underlying feelings.) I do sympathize because she's been the victim of her own denial and magical thinking. (She kept her own dad's abuse a secret from me for 40+ years, I only found out because a cousin told me...so her denial skills go deep.) She wants us to stay a family. I don't know how. I do want a loving relationship with him but not a close one. I'll just see if time heals anything.

There's no point in me being vigilant about her relationship with him or trying to control it (that's what she's always done to me). I had sent him a friendly "calm down, Mom is fine" email...reminding him what she's like with the alarms when she wants attention. If he wants to see it realistically, he will (he does know on some level). If he wants to stay hooked in the triangulation or let her manipulate him into making me an enemy, he will.

Nothing I can do about it. Trying to anticipate what she--or he--may be up to is just anxiety making. I'm already anxious about so many things I want to do what I can to avoid adding more to my mind.

The letter did make me wonder of course. But I politely put it in the mailbox for her and off it's gone.
I'm just going to try not to fantasize.

She is very upset now and I do feel sorry for her. I'm sad too. Feel sick at heart that all this happened and as though something is broken (I know, it was a spell) that can never be mended.

I hope we heal in some way. I am being polite but very guarded.

I'm just going to pray she finds some peace. I wish I had extra to share with her.

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Plucky

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Re: weekends w/NMom
« Reply #31 on: January 26, 2006, 11:16:00 PM »
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I'm just going to pray she finds some peace. I wish I had extra to share with her.

Hoppy, you are too good for this world.

Call me cynical, but....
I don't think you are going to have a good relationship anytime with your brother.  Maybe I am wrong.  I don't think you are going to heal things with them.  If things start to look quiet again, it will be because you have swallowed down your thoughts, feelings, and rights again.  I don't think a session with your pastor will help.  Ns lie, and they would love to portray you as whatever served them to your pastor, and this will impact your relationship with someone you rely on.  But maybe I am wrong.    I don't think the atmostsphere has eased.  N-hood has a half-life longer than radiation.  I don't think your mother will find any lasting peace.  How can she do so, when she is in denial about everything important in her past and present, as well as still mistreating the only person who has ever taken wonderful care of her?   

Hoppy,
your family is so toxic it is going to take the superfund to clean it all up.  But you will.  You are making progress and that is how it's done.  I'll be here to cheer you on.

Plucky

Surrounded

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Re: weekends w/NMom
« Reply #32 on: January 27, 2006, 06:55:18 PM »
Sometimes I think fear of the old phrase-----"Her OWN MOTHER!!"  -----makes us do things we would otherwise advise someone else to definitely NOT put up with. 

MAYBE----we should be telling OURSELVES-----"Her OWN DAUGHTER!!!" 

These people certainly have a hold on our psyche--don't they?

Just thoughts!

Take care.

Hopalong

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Re: weekends w/NMom
« Reply #33 on: January 28, 2006, 10:58:51 PM »
Hi guys,
I'm still feeling kind of sick and horrible.
It feels like something's irretrievably broken.
Mom and I are polite and calm again but nothing's healed.
I overheard her talking to my brother (all of a sudden he calls regularly) and she was saying, "yes, she's having a rough time but it's due to her own choices..."

Like I chose to lose my job? Get slipped disks? Become completely burned out?

Oy. It is so obvious that he's going to be the hero now. Seven years of caring for her and all this struggle, and in one tantrum I said things I can never take back and that she'll never forgive. (At one point that night when I was raging about how betrayed I felt she said things like oh but we have always loved you, etc...and I was so bitter I just kind of spat at her, that's just TALK.) What a horrible thing to say.

I think it's because my mother has literally talked me out of my own mind for 50 years. Lectures, sermonettes, homilies, calls, messages, notes, in the thousands. I cannot think straight...or I couldn't.
In spite of everything we talk about here, it doesn't feel completely good to be "awake"...last illusions gone...

I don't know when I've felt so defeated.
The other thing is, even if people like you here, who understand the frustrations of dealing with an N parent, offer absolution and sympathy for my loss of control...you're rare rare rare.

I feel like I don't know myself any more. I used to be so sweet and steadily kind, even when my patience was tried. Now I feel as though I've become someone I don't recognize, and I don't like myself any more. I'm no longer convinced I'm a good person. When I came home and first started this (I had promised my dad when he was dying that I'd always take good care of her)...it was for all the right reasons. I really did have a strong belief in not "warehousing" the old. It was only after several years of waiting on her hand and foot while paying her a hefty "rent" for my 2 little rooms that my resentment began...a friend told me I was "an au pair who pays for the privilege." And then Mom would drop remarks all the time about how when she passed away we'd of course have to sell the house so my brother could have "his half"--and meanwhile he never once, ever (still has never) contacted me to ask how anything was going for me. Ever. It was always, is everything perfect for her.

That built...resentment and Cinderella feelings built...and I finally told her I would like to discuss what her plans were. And that even if it wasn't a perfect 50-50 split, I thought it would be fair to let me stay in the house and he could auction all the contents. (This is one of the most expensive towns in the state and I could never afford even a bungalow here how...plus, there's a mortgage on it so it wouldn't be a "free house" anyway.) She said, you think you should have your brother's share because you "just live here"? At that point I realized I was completely taken for granted. I'd been cutting her toenails, cleaning her when she was ill, doing her paperwork, helping her entertain her friends, seeing her through every crisis imaginable (4 or 5 hospitalizations), taking her here and there, listening to her ENDLESS talk...and it was just her due because that's what a "good daughter" does. He on the other hand was "too busy." But at the end of it all, I'd be out on the sidewalk.

So she's right, I did begin to have selfish reasons along with my earlier, altruistic commitment to caring for her for the rest of her life. After I learned about Nism and it began to dawn on me how she didn't see any value in my care...I started to feel that I was "earning" my inheritance. I know that's wrong, but that's how I felt. And after a while she changed her mind and said she also thought it was fair.

It's also hard to make myself get things done...I'm hiding in my room unless I'm at church or escape to work or a quick outing. When I'm in the house I'm mostly hiding. Not getting anywhere with the job hunt though I'm doing an excellent job in the current position (got nice boss feedback this week).

The hard part is feeling I'm standing in the ashes of an illusion and there's nowhere to go. I don't know how I can pretend or "act" well enough to keep the charade going. It's really over but I can't walk away until I have a secure job...I have nowhere to go.

The one bright piece is I told my daughter what had happened and she was totally understanding.

Thanks...sorry...
Hopalong
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Plucky

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Re: weekends w/NMom
« Reply #34 on: January 29, 2006, 01:04:24 AM »
Hi there Hoppy,
I am so sorry to hear the pain you are going through.   You are one of the nicest, most patient people I have ever run across.  It does not seem fair that you should be punishing yourself this way.

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It feels like something's irretrievably broken.
Something is.  Your illusion.  I would be surprised if you were ever able to put it back together again.  It may seem that this is a tragedy but I am hoping that one day you will see it as the beginning of a new life for you.

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(At one point that night when I was raging about how betrayed I felt she said things like oh but we have always loved you, etc...and I was so bitter I just kind of spat at her, that's just TALK.) What a horrible thing to say.
It is the TRUTH.  The truth is always better than a lie.  Maybe her voice inside your head would tell you it is a 'horrible thing to say.'  Because she has no answer for that.  Because it is true.  Keep speaking truth, even if it is not 'nice', even if it is not easy, not approved of, not permitted.   Everyone needs to let the truth out.

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In spite of everything we talk about here, it doesn't feel completely good to be "awake"...last illusions gone...
Maybe if you think about it like an operation you needed.  You're still in recovery.  The anesthesia of your anger has worn off and now you feel the pain.  Well, it will heal.  And it will be better.  And it was necessary.   But now it hurts all get out.  You may not be able to escape the pain but you can endure it until it subsides.

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I started to feel that I was "earning" my inheritance.
Maybe you were also 'earning' her love.   And maybe it all hurts so much because that is not going to come to you either.  Maybe now it is clear that there is no love there to get.  You've worked so hard to deserve it, one way or another.  You have sacrificed.  You have endured.  It had built your character into a strong, patient, unselfish, hardworking person.  But it did not earn the nonexistent caring of your mother.  What you are trying to get, maybe it does not exist.  You think your brother is getting it - but I don't think he is getting 'love' either from your mother.    She is just putting him in the apparent position that you want.  If she loves him so much, why does she only call on him when she needs to control you?

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The hard part is feeling I'm standing in the ashes of an illusion and there's nowhere to go. I don't know how I can pretend or "act" well enough to keep the charade going. It's really over but I can't walk away until I have a secure job...I have nowhere to go.

The good thing now is that you are discarding the painful life you have been living.  The hard part is to see where to go next and what to live.  As long as you focus on this goal, you will sort it out in good time. 

Don't apologise for posting here, for working through your stuff.  We care about you and want to see you through it. 

A rare
Plucky

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Re: weekends w/NMom
« Reply #35 on: January 29, 2006, 01:36:16 AM »
Hi Hop,

I also am so sorry to hear what angst you are going through. You ARE such a sweet and supportive person. I have seen that in so many of your posts!

I read through most of this thread. What I wish most is that you would stop punishing yourself by feeling guilty -- so I did a web search and put together some excerpts (written by Vaknin) about why you should not feel guilty. I hope it helps!

***

The abuser is GUILTY. He could have PREVENTED the abuse. He KNOWINGLY did what he did. He is CULPABLE. You hate him JUSTLY.

Hating yourself is a way of assuming the abuser's guilt. The abused child thinks: A parent can never be guilty. Parents are perfect, above reproach, above vile thoughts. It is prohibited to think badly about a parent. It must be I who is wrong and guilty and corrupt in hating my parents. I should be ashamed of myself.

It is a conflict. It is the confusion that you are experiencing. Especially since you have always been an extension of the parent and hating yourself is, therefore, no real solution.

Very often we feel that perhaps we collaborated with the abusing parent, seduced or tempted or angered or provoked him or her.

This is the crux of your problem. Your inability to distinguish the child that the abuser once was (deserving of pity and empathy) - from the monstrous adult that the abuser became, which is deserving of condemnation, contempt, hate, punishment, repulsion, and reticence. As long as you do not cease confusing these two - you will be immersed in conflict, confusion, and pain. You HAVE to sacrifice the image of your parent if you want to get better. You have to let go. You must hate in order to be able to love again. You must place guilt, blame, rage, contempt where they belong.

You cannot prevent PAST bad things from happening by feeling in the PRESENT.

Understanding, loving, compassion, empathy - must be directed at the deserving. Not to love an Hitler - is NOT EQUAL to fostering a world without feelings. One can HATE and detest Hitler passionately, vehemently, wholeheartedly - and still be loving, compassionate, full of emotions and beauty. Actually I think that hating Hitler is a PRECONDITION to experiencing true feelings. If you do not hate an Hitler something is very wrong with your emotional equipment. If you do not despise a monster - you are INCAPABLE of adult feelings, your emotional intelligence is infantile and immature. Hating an abuser - is a sign of emotional maturity, not of emotional retardation.

It is wrong to UNIVERSALIZE your feelings. Can't you SEGREGATE them? For instance: can't you love your spouse WHILE hating your abusive parent? Must you love EVERYONE, all the time? Are you so terrified of being rejected?

You love monsters. You try to understand abusers. You make excuses for the inexcusable. You mitigate your private holocaust. You legitimize abhorrent crimes. You lie to yourself. You are immorally not in touch with your real emotions. And, this way, you perpetuate your own abuse, your own torture, you collaborate with the terrorists that are and were your family.

I am an Israeli. When we encounter a terrorist with hostages, we kill him first, we ask questions later. NOTHING can justify, mitigate, explain, account for, ameliorate, or alleviate what your parent did to you. I judiciously refrain from using the phrase "what WAS DONE to you". Instead, I repeat the sentence: "What HE DID to you". It was pre-meditated.

****

I don't know if that helps, but I hope there is something in there to support you!

I worry very much about you allowing yourself to feel guilt. I know that someone who was very close to me who has tried to dissociate herself from an N ex-spouse who abused her for over a decade feels so much guilt for the OUT AND OUT HATRED she felt toward him at the end of their marriage. She had never hated anyone before -- much less hated anyone so MUCH -- and now she seems to be trying to appease her guilt with a sense of obligation to her abuser. That guilt is a real stickler -- as in sticking it to you!!! Rather than looking at what you did or felt that makes you feel so guilty, how about looking on the YEARS and YEARS of abuse you have sustained? You SHOULD feel angry.  I like what Vaknin has to say about how important it is to go through this phase. Please don't hijack it with guilt which could deprive of you finally feeling truly FREED.

Also, from what I understand about N's, I wonder if perhaps your mother is doing this bit with your brother more for N supply than anything else -- kind of like, "Well, I'm not getting enough, I need more, so I'll call him!" Because really, to N's, NOTHING is about YOU -- it's all about THEM. I kind of wonder if she calls your brother so much to manipulate you as she does to get her N supply. Because for N's, it's all about THEM and it's all about SUPPLY -- and really nothing is much ever about anything else.

My best friend has an N mother who her T has told her is very toxic to her, and I once jokingly told her, "Well, maybe you could fake some N supply, and do it like an actress -- while inside just allow yourself to be detached and calm." I don't know if it would be a good way to go, and apologize if this is a bad idea, but when I imagine myself having to be in your shoes I think I might very well take that route -- i.e., use my understanding of the N psychology to some advantage just to get some peace.

Look. This might all be crazy talk. What do I know? Not much! But in case it stimulates any good ideas I'll just throw out these ideas. From what I understand, N supply comes basically in two forms that they love to eat up -- preferably adulation, admiration, etc., but when they can't get that they feed off FEAR. If they can't get you to adore them, then getting you to fear them is "better than nothing." Perhaps giving her some "acted out" (but fake) praise and adoring N supply would deflate her interest in frightening you. Perhaps she has caught on that you are somewhat frightened by your brother, and that would mean that she knows she can frighten you with every phone call to him. But she loves admiration and adoration more, so maybe if you pretend the admiration then she will prefer that so much more that she won't want to cause fear.

Also, since what she WANTS is you to fear her, then more play-acting might be very nice to use when she really DOES cause fear in you -- play-acting feeling INDIFFERENT and giving such acts ZERO attention, which might make her feel that she does not want to use those tactics which cause indifference in you.

Last, I wanted to throw out another idea that I know I would want if I were you, which is my own private space -- away from the house. Maybe in your town there is cooperative housing which would be cheap, or even just rooms for rent in people's homes. Once you have just a little money to do it with, you could start building your dreams of your life away from her (and your brother) during visits there. And go there to pray, etc., in an environment where you can really feel SAFE and AUTONOMOUS and INDEPENDENT -- and just "away from all that." It could be your secret place that she and your brother don't even know about.

Well, that's all of my wild advice for now... Sorry if it's not very helpful. I just wish I could find some way to help. You are so deserving of help and you know lots of us hear are really rooting for you!! (Any Australians reading this -- no, I didn't mean it that way! -- rooting meaning something quite else over in Oz.)

BIG GIANT HUGS........!

pink

miss piggy

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Re: weekends w/NMom
« Reply #36 on: January 29, 2006, 01:44:39 AM »
Hey Hoppy!

I've been away from the board for a while and am trying to catch up a little.

(((((((((Hoppy)))))))))

Dear lord, what a struggle!  You are so inundated with her needs you can barely remember your own... :(

One of my themes too is the not needing.  I wouldn't even fight for things that were mine and give stuff away when Nbro nagged me for it.  Here, just take it.  He was sooooooooo obnoxious and grabby.  Still is in a quieter sort of way.  Always scoping for resources.  He is also the one who posed like the "hey, I'm not interested in my inheritance and agree you should 'die broke' Dad!" heh heh heh.  How disarming of him.  I also think (some backwards perverse grandiosity) that I could live on the street with nothing because I don't need anything.  This is a total delusion but I used to believe it when I was younger.  But I think Marta also meant "don't need anything they got now, don't hold your breathe that they will give you anything in return for anything."  It's a one-way street for sure.  Whatever carrot they have they will give to the one they are sucking up to, not the one who is taking care of them.  In other words, why buy the cow when the milk is free (remember that one? kinda fits with Ns).  Want to have fun?  Pack your suitcase and take a hotel room for a day or two.  

Anyway, you should inform your mother to kindly butt out of the communication between you and your brother.  Why does she care if you "get along" or not?  What does it matter?  Many siblings who think well of each other are busy living their own adult lives.  They decide what effort they will make to stay in touch.

Of course I have a book recommendation.  It isn't really an advice book like it sounds, but quite validating for adult children of ghastly seniors: "Doing the Right Thing" by Roberta Satow.  Don't be put off by the title--it is really quite helpful to read anecdotes about adult kids loaded with the same powerful feelings you and I have about our Ns.  I guess there are other books on this subject, but I read this one and it really helped to read about others in similar family dynamics.  

I have noticed in your posts that you grant your mother all kinds of understanding about her feelings ("she's human, too") but can barely afford yourself the same understanding and acceptance of your feelings.  I think it's because you don't want to be "like your mother" so any time you express a need, you perhaps feel like you are being "like your mother" unconsciously.  ???

I felt/feel this way sometimes.  It helped to tell my mother what I tell myself during these emotional crises of dealing with my dad (just imagine the elderly germaphobic reclusive Howard Hughes and you get the idea), it helped to tell her it isn't "selfish" to think of your own survival.  My father would repeatedly browbeat us with the mantra that he was entitled to his feelings until one day I shouted at him WELL SO AM I!!  Your mother's emotional neediness is a carbon copy of my father's!

I so want to take this burden from you Hoppy.  Why don't you just tell your mom to live with Nbro if he's so great?  I also relate to your frustration about unacknowledged bs.  He does remember but won't take responsibility for crapping on you.  My brother at least admitted (cuz he was verbally dumping about Ndad) that it was "every man for himself" growing up in our house, that is, he didn't help me and I didn't "help" him, although I sort of did by not fighting back.  He is a chip off the old block.  That's why mom loves him so.

Anyway Hops, it's ok to be angry at your mother.  It doesn't mean you don't love her.  you need to and I'm wow'd by your T's insights.  Hope this helps a little bit...this thread helped me!  
Take care, MP

Hopalong

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Re: weekends w/NMom
« Reply #37 on: January 29, 2006, 06:05:18 AM »
You can't imagine what it means to wake up at 5 a.m. and come on board and find all this love, support, insight, and effort. I am so grateful. I am truly blown away. Thank you all.

MPiggy, it helps a lot to have you say it's okay that I not boldly go live in a motel (which I couldn't afford anyway). This helped:
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I could live on the street with nothing because I don't need anything.  This is a total delusion...
and so did this:
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it's ok to be angry at your mother.  It doesn't mean you don't love her.
Plus, the reminder it's okay to remind her I have survival concerns too.

This is a big idea, MP, and I am going to try to really take it in:
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you grant your mother all kinds of understanding about her feelings ("she's human, too") but can barely afford yourself the same understanding and acceptance of your feelings.  I think it's because you don't want to be "like your mother" so any time you express a need, you perhaps feel like you are being "like your mother" unconsciously.  ???
I think I can dish it out (advice) but not take it because I recall more than once advising others on this board to be compassionate toward themselves, really love themselves. And you're right, refusing to forgive myself is the same mistake...withholding love from myself won't produce more love somewhere else. Thank you.

Plucky, thank you:
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The anesthesia of your anger has worn off and now you feel the pain.  Well, it will heal.  And it will be better.  And it was necessary.   But now it hurts all get out.  You may not be able to escape the pain but you can endure it until it subsides.

I got the fearful gene from her, too...and I really did need reminding I can endure this and it will pass. Thank you. Reassurance gratefully vacuumed. You are "rare", in the best sense!

Pink: thank you for caring.
I fear Vaknin, though I understand what he's saying. I just am never convinced that I accomplish anything by hating. It's the old hate the sin but love the sinner training. I don't want to sustain the flash of hate I felt. I hate the hate. But I will listen hard to the other things about not internalizing abuse of myself in some kind of weird reaction to her and my brother's way of seeing me. Thank you, and your whole post did help me keep thinking. I need to remember I still have a brain!

I also love your "escape hatch" idea and I have one! A dear friend from church is giving me a key to her house (and she lives nearby) so I can just go there. If my brother ever arrives and I feel threatened I can go there, and likewise, anytime. I won't do it often (getting out is the problem) but the safety valve of her kind offer means a lot. I need to remind myself I won't die of this. (The chapel near where I work is also a good place to go for little meditation breaks during the day....although my own office is so isolated I can relax here too.) Her offer is as much a placebo kind of retreat. I usually don't like to go there because of cat reek, but friend love can overcome the smell!

This helped too:
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You cannot prevent PAST bad things from happening by feeling in the PRESENT.
Thanks, Plucky.

Surrounded: For some reason your post reminded me that one thing I also bellowed, while I was bellowing, was that I am a GOOD DAUGHTER (dammit, albeit a loud one at that moment!) and I am not ashamed of the job I have done. She was so stunned she just kept nodding, yes you are... That won't cure anything long-term of course but it did feel good to say that to her. All she could say was well No-One has EVER spoken to me the way you have...and that's true. But even with an outburst like that on my record, I can say to the heavens and not be lying at all: I am a good daughter.

I think I'll try to hold that thought, and go back to a bit of supply just to keep the peace, and keep on keeping on...

Thanks, all, so very much.

Love,
Hops

"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Hopalong

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Re: weekends w/NMom
« Reply #38 on: January 29, 2006, 06:13:05 AM »
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You cannot prevent PAST bad things from happening by feeling in the PRESENT.
Thanks, Plucky.
Whoops, that was Pink. Dang, when you're getting THIS MUCH AMAZING SUPPORT IT'S HARD TO EDIT IT ALL RIGHT AND GIVE THANKS IN THE RIGHT ORDER!   :P

Hope every one of you realizes how moved I am by the unique understanding from each of you.
Plucky, I believe you--all of you:

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We care about you and want to see you through it.

Thanks.
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Hopalong

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Re: weekends w/NMom
« Reply #39 on: January 29, 2006, 06:22:07 AM »
PS, Miss Piggy, I just ordered Doing the Right Thing. Just the excepts Amazon lets you see were healing. Even occurs to me that it might be a book I could send on to my brother on the chance it might help him see I have reasons for my "selfishness". But I'll wait and see.

Maybe if anyone else knows a book that might engender some understanding from him (like her, he's not all bad, but has that typical N hollowness and lack of empathy)... send titles! Thanks.
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Plucky

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Re: weekends w/NMom
« Reply #40 on: January 29, 2006, 02:16:25 PM »
Hi Hoppy,
You are soooo altruistic.  But.  You probably cannot fix your brother.  If he is ever going to be fixed, he has to recognise that he needs fixing first.  You cannot make him see the light.  Save your own skin.  You might be the only refugee from your family who makes it to shore.
Plucky

pink

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Re: weekends w/NMom
« Reply #41 on: January 29, 2006, 05:10:10 PM »
It is so hard not to want the very best for others. I do too. I really do. But when it comes to interpersonal relationships I have learned that with certain types of people I have only two choices -- keep trying to help them (and fail, plus tear myself down in the process) or get out. (Sometimes getting out cannot happen totally such as in your case, but in that case making some real distance -- emotionally if nothing else!)

I think it's taking on too much to try to save yourself, your mother and your brother all at the same time. You could all drown that way. You are not responsible for them as much as you think -- but we are ALL responsible for ourselves. Whether you make it through this is up to you (not your mother or brother); likewise for them, how they fare is up to THEM, not you.

There is a lot of misunderstanding about selfishness. Really there are two sides to that coin. One is very good and the other is stingy. It is so easy with the Christian thinking to think that selfishness is bad and stingy and sinful and wrong, and yes, it CAN be. But there is another kind of selfishness that is absolutely essential to emotional, spiritual, mental and physical health. Whoever said you cannot love others until you can first love yourself really had it right -- and whoever said Narcissists are into self-love had it wrong. If they really loved themselves they would not be narcissists and would indeed be able to love others!  The narcissist is not in touch with his or her "core," but views himself or herself as a REFLECTION of what they think they need to see and what they can create through manipulation of others. Narcissism is NOT self-love. Narcissus did not fall in love with himself; he became mesmerized and "in love" with his REFLECTION. The reflection is so bogus that this is why the Narcissist does not feel responsibile for his or her own actions -- the reflection did it, and there is (obviously) a difference between who they really are and their reflection.

Obviously you are having some issues with totally accepting and loving yourself, and THIS is what you really need to worry about. If -- and that's a BIG if -- you could ever help either of them, it would only be AFTER you have achieved the very healthy and sane and GOOD goal of truly loving and accepting YOURSELF.

This one ex-preacher told me the difference between many Christians and some Atheists is that some Christians try to do the right thing just so they can go to heaven; whereas Atheists are more likely to do the right thing just because it seemed like the right thing to do. I thought that was a pretty good insight.

What I'm trying to say is, go ahead and work on getting it right just inside YOU, and then all the other stuff will fall into place. This is one way that my meditation practice has helped me very much --just getting in touch with my CORE, experiencing the love there, and naturally feeling a love for myself by the fact that I feel this love within myself.

Now maybe I got sidetracked and didn't finish everything I was trying to say, but anyhow, that's the main thing. Please Hoppy, worry about you first. Things are too overwhelming when we try to take on too much at once. Better to break it down into pieces what needs to be done. First piece, take care of precious, beautiful, caring, giving, human, lovable YOU.

Hugs!!!

pink
« Last Edit: January 29, 2006, 05:12:02 PM by pink »

Hopalong

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Re: weekends w/NMom
« Reply #42 on: January 29, 2006, 05:20:55 PM »
Thanks Plucky and Pink........
You're right.

It's all I can do to keep my own health right now. I can't make everything all right for both of them. They have their own suffering but you're right, their own responsibility.

Back to boundaries. Wearying stuff but at least NMom and I are peaceful again, for now.

5 weeks' countdown to job expiry...so I have a much more urgent task to do.

Thanks for the pep talk and your compassion. I hope by NEXT weekend I will be accomplishing things for my own life, rather than just revolving around hers.

Hopalong
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Healing&Hopeful

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Re: weekends w/NMom
« Reply #43 on: January 30, 2006, 11:13:15 AM »
((((((((Hoppy)))))))))

I don’t have much time… but wanted you to know I’m thinking of you.  I really hope things have settled down for you, but I know you have the strength to get through this.  I KNOW you will come out of the other side smiling.

Good luck on the job front…. Employers would be mad not to take you on board Hoppy….

Take care of YOU.

Hugs

H&H (your personal cheerleader!) xx
Here's a little hug for u
To make you smilie while ur feeling blue
To make u happy if you're sad
To let u know, life ain't so bad
Now I've given a hug to u
Somehow, I feel better too!
Hugs r better when u share
So pass one on & show u care

Hopalong

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Re: weekends w/NMom
« Reply #44 on: January 30, 2006, 07:01:54 PM »
Hugs  BACK, (((((((((H&H))))))))))!

Thanks a lot for your eternal kindness.
I'm sane, still fending her off to function but we're at peace. I apologized sincerely for blowing up (not for having the feelings) and she sincerely accepted. So...she still needs fending off (pounces for attention no matter what)...but we're at peace and there seems to be no punitive fallout anyway. She even said she hoped I would forgive my brother, which was more acknowledgement than she's ever volunteered. I said yes I do but prefer to do that work on my own in privacy. Changed the subject.

Same old boundary setting will always, always be necessary. But the crisis seems to have passed. And who knows, maybe in the long run it was worth it. She's been thanking me a lot for all I've done.

I feel as though I snatched my brain back from the jaws of a croc, so I'm tired!
But I'm okay.

ALL thanks to you and your wonderful kin here...

Hugs again,
Hopalong
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."