Kicking against enmeshment

[spyralle]

Hi everyone,

I just neede some advice really I guess and some clarification of what is my problem and what isn't am I being paranoid or ridiculous or completely off my trolley.....

i guess that anyone who has read my posts will know what happened to me...  After N left I thought my life was over really and that I would simply not be able to survive or ever trust anyone again,. and then,. as you  probably know I started to see a man occasionally...A hippie type of guy who was sweet and sponteneous and very different.  I suppose I had been in enmeshed relationships for so long that I was craving to be with someone.

This all started out OK...  Remember we went roller blading etc and it was fun, but the problem is that I am not attracted to him...  He's a good looking guy but I just don't feel right with him.  Then I have been going through anguish trying to decide if this is just because he is nice and I am not used to that.  My therapist said that maybe he is very much like me and the things that I hate about myself so therefore how could I be attracted to him.....

The thing is that I don't really see him very often any more.  He's a great person and very funny but he insists on behaving as if we are madly in love.  I know that I am to blame for some of this as in the beginning I started out with all my old enmeshed behaviour,. but now I am able to stand back and see that for what it really is...  I think

Let me just list the things that are setting off warning flares ...

He never uses my name...  he calls me sweetheart or darling or honey or sweetbum or sweetlump or princess...
He is in contact every single day
He kind of wants to talk about my problems
he is very defensive about stuff I bring up about him
he has quite an enmeshed relationship with his mother...  She bakes for him every Thursday...  A bag of pies,. which he eats all week.  He says he wants to cook different stuff but is unable to tell his mother he doesn't want her pies
At Christmas he bought me lots of presents small sentimental stuff, but after I had opened it he was more interestd in looking at my presents than his own....
I have already had a valentine card off him
he lives in a rented bedsit which is damp and messy, even though he has money
He doesn't really look after himself very well
At Christmas I had to get involved in the lies he and his sister tell his mother about the fact that their father came for Christmas...  i had to pretend he had been at my house all day when really he had been with his dad...  His parents seperated when he was very young
He keeps going on about different bits of me i.e. my bum (stop laughing!!!!!)  He even took a photo of it and wanted me to print it off for him so he could keep it

HE IS 43...

Don't get me wrong.  he's a nice guy and he makes me laugh btu I also feel suffocated..  He wanted to see me this weekend and I sent him a text saying that I wasn't sure...  This was his reply...

I know darlling.. See how you feel.. I would love to be with you..  It's going to be a nice day.. we could do some work on the house or we could drive down to Brighton.. Anyway you will look stunning when you come back from the hairdressers so I really would love to see you xxx

Please tell me if it is me.  Am I just rebelling against niceness or is there something else...  I am in a state of confusion and am spending more and more time alone because it feels safer...  Maybe ex N has just destroyed all my trust in my fellow man...

Spyralle xxx

[mum]

I must say, Jacmac, I think your advice is right on.  And Bean, too! (or how do you Brits say it? Spot on?)

Something is not right. I don't think it matters if it's you, if it's him.....it's not right for you, right now, maybe ever. But right now is what you've got. The right thing to do IS to heed your own discomfort...it's telling you something.
Fall in love with yourself. It's ok to do that. Find out how wonderful YOU are.....really believe it.
IMO, that's why nothing is quite right (although the lies to his mum and some of the other stuff would creep me out too...and not being that "into him" is ENOUGH not to see someone, really).

Be alone. That's ok, even if a nice guy loves you.  Don't let the nice guy label keep you from doing what you need to. Another nice guy (or maybe him.....who knows) will come around, or not, when you feel like a guy doesn't matter at all.  That's where your head needs to be.  So give it time to get there.

Lots of love!!
Mum

[spyralle]

Thanks guys,

you are right of course when you talk about loving and trusting myself I don't/  I guess somewhere in all this the dilemna is...  If he is really nice and I don't want to be with him what is left for me...  On the other hand I feel like he is just patronising me and I'm not sure if that is me or him...

Oh my confused head.  I'm not afraid to be alone anymore....  it's just that...  I'm afraid that my decisions and judgements are not grounded ones..

Spyralle x

[spyralle]

OH God,.

Now I feel like I have been horrible to him by discussing this and making him out to be crazy..

S

[insomniac]

Spyralle,

I can relate to not trusting myself any longer when choosing a bf, and not being sure about the man I am dating.  I think your insticts are trying to tell you something.  It is ignoring these little things in the beginning that gets us involved with N's and all sorts of other people that are bad for us.

You've had some really good advice here.  I only have a few observations from your description of this man.

1. By calling you only by pet names, he is being disrespectful.  You do have a brain, and it seems like he is ignoring that fact.  Also, he is objectifying you by focusing on your appearance and your bum.  I was with an incredibly kind man for a long time who did these 2 things.  His kindness distracted me from these facts, but it drove me mad after a while.

2.  He seems less masculine to you by being so focused on feelings, and also by displaying immature behaviors.  Of course, masculinity and femininity fall on a spectrum for everyone, but we all have our preferred balance in a partner. There's nothing wrong with that.

Well, I hope these observations help you a little.  Good luck to you,

Insomniac

[roaring dad]

A guys point of view ...
The surest way to destroy a relationship, even a new one, or rather especially a new one is to try to analyze it and figure out what he is "really thinking".

If you are seeing red flags already and don't think things are right here, cut him lose and move on.  If you try to find bad stuff to convince your self that it IS NOT right, you will only find bad stuff.  If you are trying to find good stuff to convince yourself that it IS right, you will only find bad stuff (it will just take longer and hurt more).

But if you think there could be something right there, talk to him.  Most of the time, when it comes to women and relationships, men are very unsure and scared.  It sounds to me like he is over compensating to the point of smothering.  In spite of all the books and media and psychology to educate us, guys have no idea what women are thinking or what they want.  Maybe he just needs you to tell him (gently) that he is being too much and shouldn't try to hard.  I know because I tend to go overboard too.

[Hopalong]

Hi Spy,
I think your title is not confused at all and I say bravo, kick harder!

I think his reply is all about not listening to you, pressing for what he wants. I know what you mean about feeling like a generic female. (Tried to post this before but something went blooey). Here's what I noticed.
You said, I don't know. It was indirect, but I took it to mean, I need more time and space. His reply:

I know (imho he doesn't know, or why is he still pushing and swarming?)
darlling.. you are my projected fantasy woman, your own identity (or name) is irrelevant...
See how you feel.. I would like you to change your feelings now because I want your company
I would love to be with you.. I want your company
  It's going to be a nice day.. I especially want your company because it's a nice day and I like having company on nice days..
we could do some work on the house or we could drive down to Brighton.. divert yourself from your feelings of hesitation with either of these...
Anyway you will look stunning when you come back from the hairdressers and I really like looking at you when you're pretty so that's very nice of you to get beautiful for me to look at...
so I really would love to see you  and have you got it yet, this is about what I want?
xxx   your reward for cooperating...

I know I'm projecting some but I do look at men's messages under a microscope and I think he's not listening to you and your inner sense of ickiness is to be respected. It made me feel icky, anyway.

Hope that helps if it's helpful!

Hopalong

[spyralle]

I'm glad it made you feel icky Hops because that is how I feel inside.  Sometimes I like it which I think is down to my old self that is desperate for enmeshment but most time I feel like this...  I feel as if it is all about him in the guise of it being all about me and then I feel bad...

S

[spyralle]

Roaring Dad,.

I was just decorating and thinking about what you said,.  I guess I just need to say that I feel icky about this stuff because I have spoken to him and told him how it feels when he never calls me by my name and also that I need space.  i find it very difficult to trust anyone and so at the moment I guess I just need him to understand,. but he keeps pushing ...  i just didn't want you to think that this kind of stuff is horrible all the time.  I think that romance and terms of endearment are great but in the right place...  it's really interesting to get a man's perspective on this.  It's really got me thinking

Spy

[spyralle]

God do you think he is N... I am beginning to think that I am N....  Isn't it hard when you don't know if it is them or your projection onto them...

Spy x

[Hopalong]

Well, maybe you could just simplify it in your head, instead of worrying about the N word just now.

"This man is not listening to me. He is disregarding basic requests. No matter the surface niceness, that signals disrespect, self-absorption, possessiveness...and I KNOW WHERE THAT LEADS."

You might feel wonderful about making a decision about that, you think? (Because you do know. You already know. You're just struggling to respect your own knowledge. But maybe you can, now. Way better than you used to, eh?)

You're really thinking very clearly, imho...I think the hard part is to FEEL clearly. But I think you're 90% there.

Knowing now that you have explicitly told him how you feel about your name and needing space...I have to say, the Ick Meter is ringing like a fire alarm...

Glad you're walking through it here so sanely. You are really okay, Spy.
You're waaaaay smarter than you give yourself credit for.

Hops

[write]

That's exactly it H.

It doesn't matter if someone is being wonderful or horrible- if they're not listening to you.

Even nice people can have major problems communicating.

And you're not listening to yourself. Over and over you're saying it doesn't feel right.

That could mean he's not right. It could mean you're not ready- either for him- or for anyone right now.

It sounds like you're tying yourself up in emotional knots. Why not give yourself a relationship time out for a while?

[mum]

my husband and his ex are divorced (well, I should hope so )
Neither one of them is an N. They both brought problems to the marriage. They both were not perfect. They both were not perfect for each other. The both ended the marriage.  They have a fantastic daughter that they both love, but they did not stay married.
Sometimes things just don't work out...and no one has to be the bad guy.

Spy: this guy is not feeling like the right guy right now. You have no children with him, not much history with him....why don't you give both of you a break...and take a break?

[Chicken]

Hi Spy!

I am watching your progress with anticipation!  You are in a better place than you were 9 months ago.  You should allow yourself to acknowledge that and know that it's a slow process but you can definately count on it.

I think you are asking all the right questions.  The one thing that sticks out like a sore thumb is your lack of trust in your own judgement which is the toughest ride of all.

You are not yet at one with yourself, you have clearly not recovered yet, is that a good grounding to start a relationship?  The very fact that you wrote this thread speaks volumes, which part of you wrote this thread?  Are you listening to that part of yourself?  or Are you doing what every man in your life has been doing...  quashing that little voice... it just wants to be heard and wants to breathe and find itself.  Let that part of you live!  It's a new healthy part of you that can emerge, but only if you let it.  Give it air and encourage it to come out and be heard, for the first time in your life!

Try something different!  You might just get different results if you do!

I am so familiar with your journey Spyralle.  I struggle with the same things.

I would really like for you to be with someone who doesn't treat you like a piece of meat... 

[spyralle]

Oh Selkie,.

After reading your post I am just sittin here crying. I can't stop and I don't know why.... i actually sat down at my pc to remove this post...  all of it as I felt so bad for posting it in the first place.  Like I was being nasty to someone for the sake of it.

I have just told him that i do not want to be in a relationship with him in the kindest way I could and I feel very sick and lonely.  But at least I have listened to myself...

Spyralle x