Author Topic: There ARE no demons or devils. There are people and there is Spirit.  (Read 18697 times)

reallyME

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Re: There ARE no demons or devils. There are people and there is Spirit.
« Reply #75 on: March 19, 2006, 10:51:46 PM »
Quote
Bean:  It cast a mocking threat upon me.  Why?  Because I thought: Why in the hell would someone think I'd want to be here or that I'd be proud of dealing with Ns?  That is sick, and mean.  I'm a victim of abuse.  I don't want to get anything because of my pain.  I don't want a medal, I don't want to be labeled "strong" or ass-kicking, or for "doing my time" or anything remotely resembling this.  ick


Not saying ya meant it, that's just finally what I figured out I was feeling about that.

Oh I don't mind you being pissed at me at all as you said.  I am very proud of dealing with N's, proud to be here, proud to be a VICTOR, not a VICTIM.  I most certainly meant every word of what I said and I love being seen as "strong" because that gives glory and honor to the ONE who IS my Strength and my Song.  I have no problem receiving honor, as the Bible say "give honor to whom honor is due." and "Let another man's lips praise you and not your own."  It is healthy to be able to accept and receive a compliment and to be sure of who you are and what you stand for. 

If you have a problem being seen a certain way, I'm sorry, but that's about you and not me.  I have no issue with it personally whatsoever.  I'm thrilled with who God created me to be and with whom I'm becoming for His purpose and plan and glory.

~ReallyME

Hopalong

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Re: There ARE no demons or devils. There are people and there is Spirit.
« Reply #76 on: March 19, 2006, 11:42:51 PM »
The Chance to Love Everything
   
All summer I made friends
with the creatures nearby -
they flowed through the fields
and under the tent walls,
or padded through the door,
grinning through their many teeth,
looking for seeds,
suet, sugar; muttering and humming,
opening the breadbox, happiest when
there was milk and music. But once
in the night I heard a sound
outside the door, the canvas
bulged slightly - something
was pressing inward at eye level.
I watched, trembling, sure I had heard
the click of claws, the smack of lips
outside my gauzy house -
I imagined the red eyes,
the broad tongue, the enormous lap.
Would it be friendly too?
Fear defeated me. And yet,
not in faith and not in madness
but with the courage I thought
my dream deserved,
I stepped outside. It was gone.
Then I whirled at the sound of some
shambling tonnage.
Did I see a black haunch slipping
back through the trees? Did I see
the moonlight shining on it?
Did I actually reach out my arms
toward it, toward paradise falling, like
the fading of the dearest, wildest hope -
the dark heart of the story that is all
the reason for its telling?

Mary Oliver
 
 
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

reallyME

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Re: There ARE no demons or devils. There are people and there is Spirit.
« Reply #77 on: March 19, 2006, 11:57:02 PM »
HOPS...HUH?

moonlight52

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Re: There ARE no demons or devils. There are people and there is Spirit.
« Reply #78 on: March 20, 2006, 01:03:35 AM »
Hops The chance to love everything .  That chance is always there even when we are scared or we think we see something out of the corner of our eye that could get or confuse us .The chance to love everything is there even when we can not seem to make ourselves  understood .
The chance to love everything is always there .Oh dear Lord above !Hops your wisdom and kindness is beyond anything!
What an honor to know you !What an honor to know everyone here!
moon
« Last Edit: March 20, 2006, 01:58:34 AM by moonlight52 »

moonlight52

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Re: There ARE no demons or devils. There are people and there is Spirit.
« Reply #79 on: March 20, 2006, 01:49:16 AM »
HOPS  Good luck on getting new job and all your wishes fulfilled
          moon

Hopalong

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Re: There ARE no demons or devils. There are people and there is Spirit.
« Reply #80 on: March 20, 2006, 07:08:18 AM »
Wow. Thank you, Moon.
ReallyMe, Mary Oliver is a poet I like a lot...I was reading her last night and that poem reminded me of this thread. I can't imagine a better reading of it than what Moon saw...that's how I saw it too.

And at the end I felt also that she was touching on the dark currents in human beings, our periodic longing for wildness, even when it might be destructive. (So, she escapes the bear-if-it-was-a-bear, but a part of her yearns for it...).

Not me!
Notice To All Bears: Hopalong Is Not Receiving Hairy Visitors. Run Along Now.  :P

Hops

"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

pennyplant

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Re: There ARE no demons or devils. There are people and there is Spirit.
« Reply #81 on: March 20, 2006, 08:43:50 PM »
Hi Bean,

For a couple of days I was having trouble with the strong feelings being expressed during parts of this thread, probably because I am also one of the people who asked ReallyME for factual information--out of genuine interest.  It did not occur to me that members were becoming frightened or disturbed.  If it had occurred to me ahead of time, I wouldn't have asked for the information!  I tend to self-censor if I think someone will become upset.  Overly responsible, I guess.

Then you said this:


I am not.  That's my goal.  To not let fear paralyze me.  To act despite fear.  To me, I feel that makes me truly courageous.

Where is the courage in acting if you're not afraid?  Anyone can do it, in that case.


Now, I think I understand part of your motivation better.  It is something I do myself.  Purposely go into situations that I'm afraid of.  Sometimes I do that because I feel I have the right to exist and behave as other people do--it's a way of standing up for myself.  Sometimes I do it just to see what happens.  That usually doesn't work out too well.  :?   And sometimes I'm just feeling too weak to try and I give myself a break.  That's why I haven't posted in a few days.

Sometimes the responses on these threads are so thorough.  Sometimes I get overwhelmed at all the analysis.  I haven't read most of these books, haven't researched all the topics, can't even always remember who said what on which thread.  To me it is satisfying enough to learn to converse with all these new people, hear your stories, and maybe share a couple of my own.  Usually.  This weekend I was weak.   I checked in every so often and thought, oh great, another place I don't fit in.

Then I read Bean's idea of facing fear and figured I didn't have to give up.  I can try again and work through it.  So, I guess it was a good idea to keep checking in.   :)

Pennyplant
"We all shine on, like the moon, and the stars, and the sun."
John Lennon

reallyME

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Re: There ARE no demons or devils. There are people and there is Spirit.
« Reply #82 on: March 20, 2006, 09:11:10 PM »
Quote
Pennyplant:  It did not occur to me that members were becoming frightened or disturbed.  If it had occurred to me ahead of time, I wouldn't have asked for the information!  I tend to self-censor if I think someone will become upset.  Overly responsible, I guess.

Um, ok, I have to comment on this one.  frightened or disturbed, by what?  information? text?  I don't understand and I don't get it.

I'm glad it hadn't occurred to you ahead of time, because I'm pretty sure that even self-censoring here would be considered rendering yourself as voiceless.

~ReallyME

reallyME

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Re: There ARE no demons or devils. There are people and there is Spirit.
« Reply #83 on: March 20, 2006, 09:13:06 PM »
One more comment to Pennyplant or whomever it might need to be addressed to, regarding people becoming frightened or disturbed by hearing about devils, demons, deliverance...if they don't exist, then what is there to be afraid of?  That I really do not understand?

~ReallyME

Hopalong

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Re: There ARE no demons or devils. There are people and there is Spirit.
« Reply #84 on: March 20, 2006, 09:30:57 PM »
Hey Penny,
Jeez, you really are hard on yourself. (Wonder whose internalized voice that is...?  :?)

I think it's okay for people to chime in at whatever level of energy or concenration they can summon at that time. If were "graded" people on their posts, people would just peter out. We all have ebbs and flows of energy and focus. And some threads are a lot more hard work than others, just depending on how they strike or interest each individual. We're all different, and I like that.

I think this is a "Pass/Fail" board, and you PASS.

 :) Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Hopalong

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Re: There ARE no demons or devils. There are people and there is Spirit.
« Reply #85 on: March 21, 2006, 03:37:58 AM »
I am going to have to check out this Alice Miller person. Any particular title I should start with?

Speaking of good writers, I was thinking of recommending A Fine Romance by Judith Sills, PhD, to Write or anybody who needs some proppling up in the idea of seeking a healthy relationship.

(Maybe I'm talking to myself, I think I need to read it again.)

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Portia

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Re: There ARE no demons or devils. There are people and there is Spirit.
« Reply #86 on: March 21, 2006, 06:04:14 AM »
Hiya Hops, **good luck** for tomorrow!

Alice Miller, think I’ll have a go:

Drama of being a child
The truth will set you free

Her other books are hard going: ‘Thou shalt not be aware’ (society’s betrayal of the child) and For your own good (the roots of evil in childrearing) do a good job of debunking Freud’s ideas of infantile sexuality and the Oedipus complex (thank goodness). She’s German (I think) and talks a lot about the Nazis and Hitler, the whys and hows (which is fascinating); plus she talks about literary figures (Kafka mainly, from memory) and how their childhood shows in their work. She talks mainly about physical abuse: beatings and so on. That's the German heritage.

It’s stuff to make you cry as you read. http://www.alice-miller.com/sujet/framen.htm

I prefer Dorothy Rowe. She’s straightforward, plain-speaking (Australian) and offers practical ways of changing our thinking. She explains major ideas – like how we use money in the world (The Real meaning of Money) and how we seem to need conflict (Friends and Enemies, our need to love and hate) – and explains how we could think our way out of our current global problems, including war.

I think lots of people don’t like her (she doesn’t sell in the US for example) because she doesn’t offer any quick-fix or 12-step cures (she pretty much derides parts of the 12-step idea). Oh and she’s the most unromantic and realistic person I’ve read, which suits me! And she gives talks at 'the Anarchist Bookfair' in London every year, which i go to and think is a hoot. It's so......contradictory! (wanna buy an official Anarchist logo'd t-shirt?!! :?: :roll:)
Well that’s my interpretation. http://www.dorothyrowe.com.au/setup.htm (lots of published articles here).

What has helped you most Hops?

reallyME

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Re: There ARE no demons or devils. There are people and there is Spirit.
« Reply #87 on: March 21, 2006, 08:47:59 AM »
ANARCHISTS? HITLER? ANTI-12 STEP PROGRAMS? sounds exhillhirating...not

and people say there are no devils?  the anarchists are some of the clearist proofs that there ARE, imo

~ReallyME

Portia

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Re: There ARE no demons or devils. There are people and there is Spirit.
« Reply #88 on: March 21, 2006, 09:23:23 AM »
Oh ReallyMe you nearly had me there, I almost took you seriously until I thought, “don’t be silly P, she can’t be serious, that’s just too much”.

I guess you’re pulling my leg as we Brits would say (do you say that?) and I bet you’re interested?

Enjoy: http://www.anarchistbookfair.org/ (last year’s event but chock full of interesting info)

moonlight52

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Re: There ARE no demons or devils. There are people and there is Spirit.
« Reply #89 on: March 21, 2006, 10:06:09 AM »
Hello Portia and Reallyme,
                          There must be some" leg pulling" going on.Are we going to have a serious talk about demons and Hitler?
                          really mild mannered moon is not laughing.