Obliged to be stooped

[wally]

G'day mates,

One of the problems with being connected family wise to N's is you almost have to go in knowing that you offer yourself up as prey for them in  trying conditions.  Without fail I am angered that I put myself in their path.........again! 

My N brother is in jail for violating a restraining order.  His has lost his family, house, business, friends, and is having IRS problems.............uh simultaneously.  I pity him for many reasons (to some extent), but I am only an object that is useful, or not useful depending upon his needs at any given moment.  Fortunately I have a wonderful wife and kids of my own and I don't need to subject myself to his rituals because I see through them now, and my wife can't stand his behavior so I don't get any support from her when it comes to making any contact with him.  Every situation he has is always a dire one, drug treatment, alcohol treatment, jail time, out of money, attempted suicide (put gun in mouth but bullet stopped in roof of mouth), and the list goes on seemingly one upping each time.  Long story short:

I visited him in jail as he awaits his sentence.  The people that he has offended hate him so much, with good reason, that it is hard for me to lend any support in his direction.  While talking to him through the glass he breaks down in tears several times within an hour.  He stress's the fact that I am all he has and he is so grateful to have a brother like me, and how everyone is out to get him, and well the whole "victim act".  He asks if I will hire him when he gets out and in the moment I said (@&^%!)...........uh....sure.  Then immediately after I say that I feel like such an idiot, Doh!  Later on I tell my business partner what a stupid thing I said and did and we worked out a rigid option for my brother to work for the company, so rigid that he either won't accept, or will be in jail if he tries anything dishonest........again.

I am amazed at how dumb I can be sometimes, but at the same time I want to help my brother.  I know and realize that I personally can't give him the help that I think he really needs, but at the same time he is at rock bottom and he will always be there and or worse in life, providing he does not attempt suicide......again.  I have confronted him with issues in the past and thats like trying to catch a greased pig.  Anyhow his life drama, or is it his dramatic life is once again reaching a new pinnacle and it is starting to tear the family a little. 

Recently they divorced, and now he is basically single.  I know that I have an obligation to the children as far as being a good uncle, however if I am consorting with the monster then the mother will have nothing to do with me or my family.  It is hard when someone else's anger and hate is expected to be the same upon you.  I am angry at him for my own reasons, but he is my brother.  I understand the mess that he has created with leaving his family in ruins (and he did a masterful job).  I do not know how far or in which direction to go, I could perhaps just put my head in the sand.  Half of me says let him fry as this was brought to him by him, and then there is the brother thing of lending a helping hand (it literally cost me $70,000.00 the last time I did which is why I do not have much internal support from the wife and business partners).  My N mom stands by him 100% of the time, and somewhat expects me to as well but I have my own family and problems to deal with.  I could just turn him away. 

I have done well to keep my distance the last few years, but I kind of let the vampire back in the door.  Crap, I am so torn.  It is hard to discern the proper obligations, because he has burned up all of the grey area.  His Ex is so furious she is blasting him with both legal barrels, only to find out that the house she was awarded in the divorce is going to be given to the IRS, and she still owes even after that.  Wish there was a more definitive answer to all of this, no matter what I am going to get wounded in this either by the culprit, or by friendly fire, or both. 

Anyone have a sense of humor, for this one?  I usually have a pretty good one, but.........well.......you.....ya.

[Hopalong]

Wally, that's excruciating.
You're forced to choose between helping your brother (within strict safety limits) and helping your neices and nephews (who could clearly use a positive male figure in their lives).

Looking at it from the outside, I would say this:
--You can continue to love your brother (you will) but it makes no sense to give him any power to harm you
--You have the right to change your mind (about employing him). You can do that.
--Your sister in law is wrong to try to control your choices about how or to what degree you consort with your brother--she is cheating her children out of the chance to be with a sane and loving uncle. Her anger is driving her.
--If I had your neices/nephews and your brother in a lifeboat...your brother would learn to swim.

I don't know how you could construct it, but my vote would be to humblly ask your SIL to allow you to be a loving uncle to the kids. Without conditions, except that you will not discuss your brother with her or with them, to protect them from further unecessary pain.

Does that help? It's not humorous, but damn, that's a serious situation you've got there.
Your own mental health matters too.

Hops

[wally]

Hi Hopalong,

I so appreciate your suggestions.  I still feel obligated to give him a job only because I said "sure", but your right I could just say I made a mistake or something familitically correct somehow.  I would somehow have to show proof to the SIL that I am loyal to her cause to get her to trust that I am trying to hurt him as much as she is to get her to let me take the kids out fishing or something.  Unfortunately she is much like him in the using sense.  I am valuable to her right now because I can help her in her war, but as soon as the war is decided, then she will have no need to speak to me or my family ever again just as it was when they were married. 

She is using the children to befriend my mother, father (divorced 37 yrs ago), sister and any other conscripts in the fam.  She is building a great offensive, and she is justified in her anger 100%, just don't know about the reactions to the anger.  This is where the ole fam is getting torn up.  I am so amazed what power one extremely selfish person has over an entire generation (My N brother).  We moved to the mainland from HI about 8 yrs ago, starting to miss warm water beaches and high cost of living, oh and did I mention not being near the fam......lol

Thx Hopalong

[Hopalong]

So...the boundary with your SIL wouldn't be possible?

"I want to be a loving uncle to your kids. I want to take them fishing.
But there is only one way I can do that, and that is if we do not talk about Brother."

Sounds like she'd be wanting (and you agreeing to) nothing but talking about Brother!

Oy.

Hops

[ANewSheriff]

I agree with Hopalong.  You absolutely reserve the right to change your mind.  You responded to a desperate plea for help and your emotions got the better of your judgment.  Your brother is in the grips of addicition.  I do not know what his particular poison is, but you probably already know that your efforts are basically all for naught until your brother bottoms out and receives help on his own.  The chemicals invariably win time and time again..

Your intentions are admirable.  However, you are battling a giant here and my fear for you is that the giant is not yours to battle.  It is your brother's...

My heart is saddened at the chaos this has caused you, your family, and your brother.  I will keep you in my prayers.

ANewSheriff

[wally]

Thx for your support sherrif, you seem to know him without having to know him.

Hops your right, I think that your suggestion is about the only avenue of approach as dicey as it will get I can somewhat stay neutral if she accepts.  My brother will have to understand, especially since he is the center of this heartache that his decisions have forced our relationships into a very narrow channel of operation that may not even work at times.  If she even thinks that I am talking to him as she already knows, it probably won't come to terms.  But, there is always the power of the question and I can sincerely ask. 

At any rate I do like the separation of thought that your proposing even if this does not come to good terms, I can squeeze a smidgen of sanity into that small degree of separation.

and........"Oy"......thats humorous,

Lived "Down Unda" for a couple of years, its so beautiful!

Fair Dinkum,

Wally

[mudpuppy]

Wally,

I can only speak for myself. If I told him he could have a job I would feel obliged to give it to him. Not so much for him but for myself. Keeping our word when its hard is often the most important time to keep it; for own conscience's sake not other's. I would also make sure he walked the line in that job. And at the first misstep would show him the door.

Your loyalty to him is admirable but you can neither fix him or even help him. His problems are wholly owned subsidiaries of his personality. Nor is your SIL any responsibility of yours. The only people you can have a positive effect on are your nieces and nephews. If it were me, my only concern would be finding ways to soften the blow of the warfare on them, because they're pretty much the only ones you can have a positive effect on.
Especially don't let your sympathy for him or your SIL interfere in your own home life. Your wife and kids ARE your responsibility, and your first one.
Take it from a guy who wasted 20 years on his own brother.

mud

[Hopalong]

My "Oy" is Hebrew -- came from living in an orthodox Jewish neighborhood for a while...
but maybe some of the Hassids were Aussies in disguise! (I'd love to go Down Under).

 

[movinon]

Wally -

A little info about dear old brother.  If he has hit rock bottom, ther ARE places he can go that won't cost him a dime.  For instance, there are many 12-step organizations that he can get into (from the sound of all his issues).  You are NOT his only support if he CHOOSES to HELP HIMSELF and that's the only thing that can happen now.  HE needs to make the choice. 

As we say in recovery, when a person gets in enough pain, they will get the help they need and start WORKING.  Although it seems like a lot of turmoil to you, he's obviously getting some payoff from his situation.  It appears that his payoff may be that he does not have to be responsible for ANYTHING at ALL and there will always be someone to come to his rescue.

You can still love him and have VERY, VERY strong boundaries with him.  You can give him info. on where to go for help and let him know that you can not help anymore and will need to pull back a bit for your OWN good.

It's okay to take care of yourself and your family FIRST.

I hear that you have a big heart and this is something your brother obviously counts on takes advantage of.  I'm sorry for that.

About your mom, you are a grown man with a family and her expectations are HERS and HERS ALONE.  You are being responsible and trying your best to do what fits in your OWN FAMILY's value system.

Sending strength...

Movinon

[Sela]

Hiya Wally:

Maybe you could go back and visit your brother again and tell him that you've been thinking about him a lot and that you do want to help him.... that you will give him a job, as promised, but that because of the risk to yourself, your family and the business, you've decided that there will have to be conditions attached?

!.  He must go directly from jail to rehab and complete the program with flying colours.
2. etc

Your brother has made his choices so far.  Now is the time, while he is at "rock bottom", for him to choose life (rather than the slow, painful, pathetic death he's thus far chosen).  What if you tell him you want him to choose life and that you will support him as best you can, if he does, and that if not, you will not be around to enable or encourage him to rot himself....including affording him the means with which to buy more poison to put in his body?

I know it sounds tough but it's a tough situation and the fact is.......it's his choice.

And if he starts crying again remember the tears his family has probably cried because of his behaviour toward them and remind him of them.  Maybe even say that you feel for his pain and that's why you're interested in seeing him live a good life.

Sela

[mtocalcutta]

Hi everyone, I get a bit miffed at these situations. Although I understand the brother dilema I think the children should come first. Not only the children but if the wife of the good guy says no then it should be no. My husband put others before us and it damaged my children and made me doubt his love for us and he is a good man. The troubled brother has to be left with out completely. Yes, there are government agencies to help. If the good brother was single and there were no neices and nephews then yes, spend your life on this poor soul. But, that is not the case. Your love has to go to the ones it should. Your own wife and children. Hec, its not right that your kids and wife should be damaged and come second. It's wrong. The neices and nephews need your wife, and children's love. How can you do that with others knowing you are helping someone that is destroying his own children and ex wife by his behaviour. Let God send him a missionary or something to save him but you need to tend to what God has given you first so they end up full of love, confidence etc so they won't turn out like your brother.

[wally]

Wowzers, now there is some potent advice here. 

Hi Mtocalcutta,

How can you do that with others knowing you are helping someone that is destroying his own children and ex wife by his behavior.

This is my moral dilemma to walk through, this is the part where I want to move back to Hawaii with my family and let the chips fall where they fall.  It is true that my assistance in any form to my brother will be taken as my "vote".  My wonderful wife and children do have first stake in my energy, and time although it may seem different sometimes I strive to make it so.  We are the only ones left in my family out of four siblings that have not divorced, our parents were divorced when I was 2.  So we feel scared and fortunate at the same time, but just like when I was in the Marines and people would fall out of the 30 mile forced marches, you seem to steal their energy when they quit and it reaffirms your original goals and resolve. 

Hopalong says to separate the issues between dealing with the children (niece/nephews), and present the choice to the mother with the deal to leave out all brother talk, and I am mustering the know how and strength to do this.  But there still is the issue of brother as far as knowing that others know that I am in contact makes me damaged goods.  Perhaps a form letter to all might be appropriate..........because no matter what I do I will in the end demonstrate my stand, wether it is conceived as innocent, or consortion I have no control over the scuttlebutt.

Hey Mud,

20 years?  What parts were wasted?  There must have been something good somewhere (I am thinking).  I can kind of see it though because with my brother, I usually don't exist unless there is a need to be used for anything ranging from borrowing to crisis.  Other than that if I have no use there is no contact, and if I call him it is like he can't wait to get off of the phone, but when he needs something he is so warm,attentive, driven.......ahhhhhhhhhhh! 

If it were me, my only concern would be finding ways to soften the blow of the warfare on them, because they're pretty much the only ones you can have a positive effect on.

This seems to be an accurate and echoing theme throughout the wonderful responses here.  This is my choice, however I am navigating the mine field at the moment.  As soon as I find a foot hold of how to approach everyone my anxiety will at least switch to a different subject, this is my desired path.  My wife is very patient with me, and she is not afraid to cut me off of my anxiety binging......lol.

Teartracks, I love your suggestion of projecting some good energy to a time that really will be clear and unadulterated.  This provides a light at the end of the tunnel and also it suggests that there will be a future in this which is something that I have not considered lately.  This is something that can be done now, as far as my decisions.........whoo hoo I was able to make one without a million calculations!  Thanx.

Wow Movinon, you kind a found one of the sad but true issues about this entire drama.  He has always been bailed out and never had to take responsibility for anything........this is perhaps the core of the dilemma for him.  I am guilty of being one of the enablers, but his Nmom is the ultimate perpetrater of his continuance (not blaming, just a fact).  He has not had to answer for much, and I am not even going to go near that one........way too much for me to even consider to try to help with.

Thanx Sela for reminding me of the contrast of tears.

And if he starts crying again remember the tears his family has probably cried because of his behavior toward them and remind him of them.  

His tears are tears of self pity and a thieves anger (crying because he was caught not because he is sorry).  I can honestly say that I am such a sucker for that, but his children's tears are sincere, and their pain is true, what a great angle of understanding.

bean your expectation of adults is a healthy way.  It is a way that I approach almost anyone else not in my family.  But there is much value in being able to flip that switch to get through some of this.  I hear ya, and would like to simplify the hellfireandbrimstone out of this.  Bean your response is hardcore, and I like that approach most of the time but I have to wear the kiddy gloves for awhile here until some of the smoke clears.  I really do wish that my responsibility to him could end but I don't have the strength to do the "full back turn" yet, although tried to many times.  Workin on the that move though.......thx bean.

doin better,

Wally

[Hopalong]

Hey Wally:
I think this is a fine idea:

a form letter to all might be appropriate

It can be overwhelming when you're trying to navigate a minefield and set just the right boundaries with different people and communicate something complex and protect children all at once.

I think a letter is a great opportunity to speak and be heard...a chance to say a consistent message.

My only advice on that, and I think it's important, is to keep it very clear and no more than a paragraph or two.

Hops

[movinon]

Wally -

Glad to hear you are doing better.  Take care of yourself and your family.

Movinon

[mum]

Wally, just catching up here. Holy moly, what a mess. This has always helped me to remember:
the most compassioate thing you can do for someone else is to establish and keep your own healthy boundaries. Your brother does what N's do: they prey on the kindness of others. The act like victims and blame everything on anything but themselves. My children fall prey to their Nfather in this way: he parentifies them and they then feel responsible for how he feels. Which we, as adults, know is not possible: feelings are internal and are only felt internally.
This is your brother's path. He chose it, he owns it, and it is his to learn from. He has the same chance as everyone to evolve in this life. He WILL NOT do so, if someone else does life for him, feels this for him, takes away his chance to learn, however sad it will be to watch. This is his life.
Best of luck to you. You are obviously a kind and compassionate man...who deserves a happy life, unfettered by his blood relatives' messes.