$$$$$

[write]

What do other people think about debts?

I was out with a young woman last week who told me she is 'maxed out' ( her words) on several credit cards and has unpaid debt going back to her University days. She's got a good job now and no dependents or outgoings except her own upkeep but continues to spend way more than she earns so the debt goes up not down.

I know unexpected health or divorce or repair bills can throw people into the red, but taking a holiday or buying a tattoo (!) on the credit card seems way irresponsible to me.

She seemed to want me to agree, she said 'well, it's the way everyone lives isn't it?'

Then my neighbours have fallen on hard luck again, reduced hours at work, an unexpected a/c repair bill ( which I feel they should have approached the parents of the child who broke it for some of the cost, and I would have paid for it if my kid damaged it messing around )
They really struggle, so we went grocery shopping and I paid for hers ( not a lot, I guess $30 something )
But the next day she showed me a wooden trunk she had bought with the money I saved for her!
What can you say to that?!

I've noticed with the advertising here now there's been another subtle twist added: not just you'll look good with this or you need this, now you deserve this...

I am really anal about money- I have to be or when I get manic I'd buy a pony or 4000 luxury bath towels....but what do other people think?

[Hopalong]

Hi Write,

I loathe debt (though I do have a little), loathe mindless consumerism, and think most of us in the developed world have waaaaaay too much stuff.

When a home is over-stuffed with stuff, imo, there's a cramped and stifling effect on the emotions and the imagination.

I think the media has trained us to equate purchasing things with happiness.

Hops

[pennyplant]

Hi Write,

For the people I know who feel they "deserve" to buy things for themselves even though they can't afford it--I think it might be some kind of a drug for some of them, a way to feel less depressed.  A co-worker of mine buys something for herself or her son every single day of the week.  If there is a holiday or party, it has to be over the top with decorations, gifts, etc.  Her house is jam-packed.  She is single and knows she should save up for fuel oil and home repairs but doesn't.  One week she bought hundreds of dollars worth of digital camera supplies.  Close to one whole paycheck.  I honestly believe she is depressed or having anxiety and thinks all this will make her feel better.

High debts can be a symptom just like too much drinking or any other harmfully excessive behavior.

Now your friend who actually showed you what she bought for herself with the money you "saved her" seems a little clueless.  I don't think I would have done such a thing, but if I were weak and spent the money I owed you, I sure would be too embarrassed to show you what I bought!  And she did this the very next day!  She couldn't possibly have forgotten about the debt in that short amount of time--or could she?  I'd bet she's got something she should be healing from.

Pennyplant

[Winterbrite]

Hi Write

I've been a member here for some time but have never posted although I read a lot of the posts.  So...
Debt makes me very nervous.  Even necessary debt.  I suppose much of it goes back to the time when my husband and I were younger, raising our children, and had little income to work with.  We're doing well financially now but I avoid debt like the plague.  And don't understand how people can sleep at night if financial collapse is only a disaster away.  I remember the times when unexpected expenses like a doctor visit for one of the kids made me wonder if I could feed them after paying for the doctor visit and any necessary medications.  We did without a lot of 'wants' so we could hopefully cover the 'needs'. 
In short I guess what I'm trying to say is just because we want it is no reason to go into debt. 
Just my opinion.   

[Stormchild]

what winterbrite said, except in my case all of the children were covered with fur...

[pennyplant]

Sometimes furry children are almost as expensive as the human kind!

PP

[write]

Hi Winterbrite

~welcome!

I'm glad other people can see the irony of my friend's behaviour, I was telling myself a gift should be given freely, don't be controlling etc...but I did think next day- these are people who will never get straight!

[gratitude28]

I definitely think spending excessively is a sickness just as is alcoholism or any other addiction. I have to watch myself with spending because sometimes I do like to buy things just for fun (although I am a big saver and more or less stay within budget). My Nmother is only happy if she is buying. She spends every cent and then runs up credit buying things that will be used once and then ignored. She thinks it makes her look "rich," but sadly it just makes her look wasteful and her house is piled, literally, with junk. I have no idea what she will do when my dad retires as what they have saved is hardly enough for them to make it through one year with the way they spend money. It used to worry me terribly, but I am trying to not fret about things beyond my control now.
And, write, I think what your friend did is atrocious. I have lived a large portion of my life working multiple jobs just to make ends meet. If anyone were to have helped me, I would have been grateful and used it wisely.

[write]

one of my friends told me a while back she spent years helping her brother financially, to watch him stagger from one self-induced crisis to another and almost lose his home...eventually she said she felt like she was enabling him and she told him she wouldn't help him any more.
Now she won't discuss his financial problems or bouts of unemployment or 'get rich quick' schemes with him.

I need to do that; clearly I'm not helping & as you say Storm help them/ not help them it won't feel quite right either way.

It is interesting though what people buy and think they must have and cannot live without- especially when they clearly can't afford it and to other people it's just junk and clutter...

sometimes I do like to buy things just for fun

so do I, I think it's healthy if it's 'sometimes' and within the budget.
I bought me a chocolate cookie chip candle jar yesterday ( $3.99 FoodTown! )

But the pretty $17.99 cornflower blue pants at Target I didn't get- they'll probably be on half-price clearance in a few weeks!

[Sela]

Hi all:

This topic got me thinking about one of my abusers, who I think has this problem of living above their means.
It seems like:

a) the person believes they deserve the absolute best stuff........simply because some other people have it.
b) it seems like a way to self soothe and it has become an addiction, imo.
c) it's also a way to look important/of higher class/above others.
d) and it seems like an attempt to satisfy some need (??) that will never be satisfied (because no matter what is bought, it becomes boring after awhile and must be replaced with something new and more expensive).

I'm not in contact with this person any more but when I was, there was debt accumulating each month (verses making ends meet or paying debt down) and yet the spending continued.   This person demanded a large sum of money from me, one time, which I refused to give for a number of reasons, one of which being I was pretty sure it would never be repaid.   The person had borrowed money from me once before, when I was in tight financial state myself, money I had managed to put away for my children's education (a whole whopping $750...but still....it was something and they were still small so I hoped to add to it).  The person borrowed it and never paid it back.

I think this shows a lack of conscience.  At least...it sure seems like it to me.

I don't think giving money to people with this problem....helps them in any way.  I think it's like feeding bread to geese.....they'll always come back for more.

Sela

[Portia]

I feel a lot better about money and material goods since I stopped even glancing at ‘women’s magazines’ (what brainwashing!), I don’t look or go in shops unless there’s a reason, I don’t look at magazines full of ‘stuff’ and I don’t listen to other people telling me about their stuff. Boring. Library is much more interesting!

'well, it's the way everyone lives isn't it?'
Just because 40 million people agree with an idea, it can still be a dumb idea.
(How we excuse our own behaviour by putting the responsibility on to others eh?)

Write, your neighbours create their own situations, it isn’t luck. I wouldn’t lend them another cent. If I had a cent! How about a Euro Cent? You’ll feel unappreciated when they blow it, so don’t let yourself feel unappreciated.

I said to my mother: “I live on 5k a year” (she knows I haven’t been earning). Reply? “Oh I wish I could live on that!” Give me a break. Her place is similar to Beth’s mom’s. Stuff about the place still in it’s packaging, unopened. Responsibility again.

Yes, the compulsion to buy stuff is an addiction, as serious as other addictions.

Money isn’t money (a tool) to some people. It’s love, admiration, respect, recognition, acceptance…..which is why the Murdoch types want more of it. But they can never get enough coz it don’t taste the same as mother’s love and never will do. Sad.

People who take money and don’t repay I guess are taking back the love they perceive you as having and they don’t have. I guess they think you ‘owe’ them, or that they ‘deserve’ to have what you have. Or some such twisted thinking.

At least geese are cute to look at!

[write]

The person borrowed it and never paid it back.

I think this shows a lack of conscience.  At least...it sure seems like it to me.

absolutely; what better way to give you the message I don't care much, your feelings aren't a priority...

I never lend money simply because people who will borrow usually don't pay it back; what I gave to my neighbours was a gift.

But I'm still getting the message in that and a few other ways: your feelings aren't important.

I've just been out shopping actually; it's almost end of the year here and parents send little gifts to the teachers and staff who have served our kids all year.

It was perfect synchronicity- I found exactly what I needed at good prices plus some bedsheets and a whistling kettle I've been wanting for a while ( $9.99, $20 cheaper than when I first saw it )

One other thing I have noticed about buying stuff- if you've waited for it it's more enjoyable when you get it.

I read in a Margaret Drabble novel a few weeks ago 'we had less stuff back then but more to look forward to' and it's true- everyone's disappointed birthdays and Christmas now 'cos it isn't really the stuff itself we remember, it's the anticipation, the having to wait or save up, and the fact that having treats was a special not overdone thing.

[Sela]

Thanks write!

I don't care much, your feelings aren't a priority...


your feelings aren't important.

Ofcourse that's what the person was saying/meaning/showing by their actions!!  Thanks for putting that into words so clearly like that.

if you've waited for it it's more enjoyable when you get it.

Ya it's the..........annnnnnnnnnnticiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii


..................paaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaation.....................that does that!!

     Makes good stuff even better!!


Sela

[Healing&Hopeful]

Hiya all

This post made me think of something that was on the news today.  In the UK the NHS are making massive cuts because of overspending.  Ultimately it's the patients that miss out, but I was annoyed at one point because they were following patients on dialisys (sp... I hope you know what I mean), and because of the cuts have stopped paying both ways for patients (and now just pay one way) who need this treatment to get taxi's to the hospital.  They then interviewed a patient who said he spends £60 per week in taxi's which is covered by the NHS funds.  This is £3120 a year and the newsreader was saying that patients would miss out on their treatment because they couldn't afford to get taxi's too and from the hospital and in a worse case after a short time they will become ill and very worse case may even die.  But while I do feel for them, I thought isn't it still the patients responsibility to get to the hospital for treatment, not the hospitals responsibility to get the patient there?  Can you not get friends and family to help out giving lifts?  Is there no public transport?

Sorry... I've gone off topic!

Back to the topic.... 99% of the time I've borrowed money (which hasn't been very often in fairness) I've paid it back on time, and there has been the odd occasion that I forgot.  Like when my brother got my Mum's mothers day present for me (It was an orchid and there was no way I could send it so I asked him to pick one up for me), and I said I could send him a cheque or give him the money when I saw him.  He said for me to give him the money when I saw him which was about six weeks later, and he did ask me for it.  I was mortified that I forgot about it!

I've never owed a substantial amount of money (apart from the mortgage, does that count?) and apart from the mortgage, have a loan for my car which will be paid off next Feb, and I have a credit card which I'm careful with and pay off each month.  I think the thing with loans/credit cards etc is that it's too easy for people to get money nowadays.  I went to the bank recently for something minor, and was offered a 7k loan, totally unrelated to the reason I was there... and no I didn't accept it.  There's too much emphasis on what people own, do they have the best car/phone/clothes, you name it really.  And I think it sums up the get it now, pay for it later... greed.  There's a lack of saving up and the sense of achievement when you have saved enough that you can buy the item.  I've lived through where I've hardly had two pennies to rub together, and my friends parents were providing me with food parcels to survive.  I've come a long way since then, and I'm not prepared to get into so much debt where I have to go back there.

H&H xx

[gratitude28]

Here's what's bothering me about the money issue lately...
My parents are getting older. My dad should be looking towards retirement. Also, whenever I make the trip back to the States, he is working at least part of the time (and sometimes most of the time). My mother gets on him about working when we are there. BUT SHE MAKES HIM BUY HER SHIT EVERY DAY. I want my father to be able to rest a bit in his older age and do what he likes, but he is too tired. She believes that she shouldn't have to work because she has a man to take care of her. She has worked here and there throughout their marriage, but she is most proud of the times she "didn't have to work." I find my work not only nice in that it helps support our family, but through my job, I am helping many people every day. She never has a desire to help anyone... although she was a nurse, she only worked for money. My mother loves to make my dad feel guilty about all the things she "had to do without" when they were younger and first married. SHe jokes (meanly) that she was tricked into wanting to marry him because he picked her up in different cars so she thought he was rich.