Hi LoH: & confusion, emotions, self-trust

[Portia]

This is a reply to LoH but the subject matter is general so if you want to, please do.
 
I guess I’d sum this up as being about how I don’t trust my own judgement sometimes and how I perceive ‘threats’. These aren’t real threats, they’re the same old useless beliefs telling me:

“if someone else says you’re bad, then they might be right”.

If I trust my self, I know who I am and what others say about me isn’t my concern (unless there’s a real practical impact on my life).

This is such simple stuff and yet I keep going over the same ground. It’s so frustrating, that I have to keep learning the same thing, over and over. Knowing that this is how it works does not alleviate my frustration. I do the very same things that I see others doing - and tell them that they’re doing! – it’s laughable. I am laughing at myself. Hey, “it takes one to know one”: those old sayings contain much truth I think. Nothing is new in human psychology is it?

Hi LoH

Thanks for your reply on Storm’s thread.

Given that you thought I was telling you off, thank you for taking the time and considering the best thing to say and asking questions rather than telling me off in return. I really appreciate that, the fact that you asked how I felt rather than pouncing. A gentle thing.

Thank you for acknowledging. Stuff about me that is vaguely related: I don’t pounce, usually, in ‘real life’. I do it when I’ve been used and robbed of something. For example, I’ll take organisations to court, or threaten that, to stop them abusing or to get back something stolen from me. I check my facts, get opinions if appropriate etc. I’ll write a stinking letter to a supplier who really screws up (and who won’t take responsibility and make good). It takes me a long time to get to the stage where I take action, but when I do it’s serious to me. Recently I got to that stage with a car company who three times promised to make something right and failed. So I went to the supplier, the showroom, saw a salesperson and told them “I don’t want to have to phone them again because next time I’ll start swearing”. It worked! I guess he took me seriously. That’s a good feeling, but it seems a pity to me that so often I have to get to the stage of threatening action before other people will act. Before they will fulfil their promises, or simply do their jobs. Is that being a control-freak or just expecting good service, good behaviour and becoming justifiably pissed off when the gap becomes obvious between what people/organisations say, and what they do. I’m a grumpy middle aged woman!


Why didn’t I react to you? I didn’t feel threatened by you.

I thought you were confused and I thought, I’m not surprised, I’m behaving like a nutcase, again. And I thought I’m caught up emotionally here (feeling threatened by another) and I don’t think I can find a good way to respond to you and answer your questions. I considered PMing you but then thought that wasn’t appropriate, given my board behaviour: you might not trust a PM from me right then.

I felt a bit confused by your post at first (my idea of how LoH behaves and this wasn’t fitting that idea), then saw what I thought was your confusion (confusion I thought, about what you thought I was and the disparity between ‘Portia before’ and ‘Portia apparently off the rails’) and ended up wanting to explain…..but decided not to, then.

Because I read your 1st post on F.F. & Unlocked and things you'd said previously about free will and respecting boundaries, then what you said about peace and compassion...and couldn't make it all match up.

Yes. It didn’t match. I was angry, felt threatened.

So, between the two, if someone ever told me they didn't want to talk to me, I would need a whole lot of convincing from them, directly, before I ever said so much as hello again.

Yes I can see this. Why do I feel threatened by some folks and not others? I don’t feel the need to protect myself against some people: is it because I trust my judgement and therefore I can say “hello”? It’s because I think I understand them, I think. If I understand, I don’t feel threatened. The fear has gone.

Why would you need a lot of convincing LoH? 

If I do feel threatened by someone, what am I protecting myself against? Having a bad reputation? With whom? It doesn’t matter what someone thinks or says about me: what matters is what I think of myself.
 - break -

[Portia]

Mid post theorising about introverts and extraverts: one of my ‘off on one’ moments

I’m an introvert. I live for my internal world. I do not live for other people, for relationships. If I have to compromise my integrity to be liked by people, I’ll choose to be hated. No hesitation in that choice. Extraverts can hesitate over the question, it means so much more to them to be liked and accepted by others. Apparently. This is about trusting our own judgement.

Because introverts spend more time in their heads, their judgement of others is more important in how they see themselves. If I make a huge error of judgment, it can feel as though my world is falling apart. I lose control of myself and that’s – the worse thing.

I guess if extraverts make a huge error of judgement, they will look outside themselves for the answer. They will look to others, to the external world, to re-align their thinking. I guess extraverts will ask others: what’s happening? Is this person okay? What do you think? And their sense of existence, their world, becomes more solid with the more external input they receive.

The external input is important to me too, but not half as important as what’s in my head without any input. Does that mean that introverts have a need to trust themselves more than extraverts? And would a balance for introverts be to actively trust others more? Yes I think so.

Does that mean that extraverts naturally find it easier to trust others, but find it more difficult to trust themselves?

When we talk about trusting others here, do extraverts understand just what a big issue that is for introverts?

And when an extravert might say “I don’t know what to think about this, what do you think?” as an introvert I think they’re having a complete crisis! But I guess to them, this is normal practice?

Where was I?

[Portia]

Back again LoH

It also has to do with making my own judgement of a situation, trusting myself and not seeking to understand that which confuses me by going outside myself (dangerous!).

I think, now, if I’m confused about something, it would help me to examine my confusion closely and try to work out where that comes from. I guess my confusion is a lack of trust in my emotional responses? I know when I feel sick, when my stomach hurts, when I feel angry etc: why don’t I listen to my emotions and let my thoughts and actions follow? I seem to fight against my emotions: I acknowledge feeling angry, upset and then – I override those feelings with my brain! I discount the importance of my emotions! I’m learning this again. And again.

No Light of Heart you haven’t sad anything at all that I find hurtful. My emotional response to your post was good, warm feelings in my chest and I trust those feelings! It’s all work in progress for me. And I enjoyed:

'cause what would be nicer than people acting like me! (HA!)

immensely . Introverts I think?

[Healing&Hopeful]

Hiya Portia….

How are you?

This bit leapt out of me and wacked me in the face….

I think, now, if I’m confused about something, it would help me to examine my confusion closely and try to work out where that comes from. I guess my confusion is a lack of trust in my emotional responses? I know when I feel sick, when my stomach hurts, when I feel angry etc: why don’t I listen to my emotions and let my thoughts and actions follow? I seem to fight against my emotions: I acknowledge feeling angry, upset and then – I override those feelings with my brain! I discount the importance of my emotions! I’m learning this again. And again.

How true…. How totally and utterly true….  There are very few people we can share honestly how we are feeling.  Think about it…. An acquaintance asks how you are, and we say we’re fine.  There’s that boundary between letting others know how we feel and what we feel, unless they are in our inner circle.  My H on the other hand…. How are you?  And my reply would be I’ve had a sh*te day because of this this and this, but I’m so glad to be home now with you…. Lets go for a pint!

I think the difference is when we are emotionally cut off, there isn’t anyone in our inner circle that we are prepared to share this with…. There isn’t anyone to say I feel angry today, I feel pants today, I feel happy today etc etc.  So they automatically get pushed to the back, ignored because they are not acknowledge by anyway (thinking here when we’re kids and by our parents)

There’s so much in these posts that I’ve only dealt with a fraction of it Portia… ((((((Portia)))))

Take care

Love H&H xx

[Portia]

Thanks H&H

I heard you loud and clear I think, thanks.

There isn’t anyone to say I feel angry today, I feel pants today, I feel happy today etc etc.  So they automatically get pushed to the back

Yes. Although I didn’t know when I felt those things anyway! I had no grasp on emotions for so long. I don’t think I had emotions as a kid, seriously, I think I was depressed. Only in the last 5 years have I started to learn how to recognise rage vs anger, happiness vs excitement (fear-based) etc etc. Anger and fear are the killer emotions I think.

You asked me ‘how are you?’ and I have to stop and consider – how am I today? Very often I still don’t know. Today? Peaceful. Thank you for asking! How are you? Hope you’re feeling a good emotion too.
 

[Healing&Hopeful]

I'm glad you are feeling peaceful today..... I wasn't having a very good day, however our bosses are now in a workshop meeting and me and work colleague went to get a sandwich and decided to eat out.  I even had a glass of wine (just a small one) which has gone straight to my head!  So I'm feeling more chilled out, and just going to take a slow afternoon.  Well, kind of as I have to start sorting out a report for tomorrow....

I'm glad you've got to know your emotions now... can make such a huge difference me thinks. xx

[Hops]

Hi H&H, and Portia:

If it helps, P, the exact same thing that H&H noticed jumped out and whacked me too:

I seem to fight against my emotions: I acknowledge feeling angry, upset and then – I override those feelings with my brain!

It occurred to me that I think perhaps that motion...of briefly acknowledging a feeling and then going cerebral...I think it happens very quickly and might even happen in posts sometimes, which might possibly be a reason that some people who don't know you well or "get" you feel some unease. It's like...a discontinuity. Jeez I hope that doesn't sound critical, as I surely don't intend it that way. Am just hoping it's a helpful thing, if it's a right intuition.

H&H, dear,
I was so comforted by this:

when we are emotionally cut off, there isn’t anyone in our inner circle that we are prepared to share this with….

Just felt like somebody understands. Imagine me coming home, exhausted, worried about a job, back hurting like blazes. I open the door and before I'm all the way in, NMom calls my name and starts talking instantly about herself. Always. It's amazingly consistent. She never asks me, ever,
how was your day? So I get into the habit sometimes of walling off my feelings. I know I hardly ever cry.

Hugs,
Hops

I had another thought...I notice in your posts that sometimes you go madly off into emoticons and short funny laughing bursts of short phrases. I enjoy it, I find it endearing and lively...and I am so drawn to your good heart and determined thinking (feelings and brain, both very fine by me). Just now it occurred to me though, that maybe on some occasions those bursts of laughter seem nervous...so I think what sometimes some folks could interpret as casual or sarcastic isn't that at all.

Instead, it might be a swiftly-buried spasm of fear or pain, and your witty self would rather laugh, so you sort of breathlessly do, and then when you run out of breath (or emoticons), you're too spent to make another feelings-statement. So...anybody who doesn't feel as though they know you, the laughing-blitz might have them feeling a little off-balance.

(I think I'm used to feeling off-balance! And truly, I don't mean that as an insult, I hope you know! It's sort of a paused-in-the-gap feeling, like a suspension between my emotions and my intellect. I feel and engage that tension in poetry, anyway. Maybe that's why I feel so comfortable with you.) 

[penelope]

hey P,

For the record   

I feel very comfortable with you too.  Which is why...I feel comfortable...saying sometimes - I need a short break, just a moment of rest from Portia.  It's a boundary thing.  Again, think about me and how I must be feeling, and try....try not to take it personally.  K?

pb

[Healing&Hopeful]

I was so comforted by this:

when we are emotionally cut off, there isn’t anyone in our inner circle that we are prepared to share this with….

Just felt like somebody understands. Imagine me coming home, exhausted, worried about a job, back hurting like blazes. I open the door and before I'm all the way in, NMom calls my name and starts talking instantly about herself. Always. It's amazingly consistent. She never asks me, ever,
how was your day? So I get into the habit sometimes of walling off my feelings. I know I hardly ever cry.

(((((((((((Hoppy)))))))))))))

How was your day?  How are you? 

Maybe think of it this way.... who says our inner circle is made up of FOO? (love that now I know what it means btw!)

Do you have a 3D friend you can turn to?  Who you would feel comfortable letting into your inner circle?

(((((((((Hops)))))))))))

Love H&H xx

[Hops]

Hiya,
Meant to edit that last bit about the emoticons&laughter posts to say, just had a thought Portia, but I'm sure you figured it out, P.

H&H,
Thank you. Yes, I do have 3D friends. Only one I can talk to daily in an intimate way, and she's not very tuned to emotional language, but she's still the most loyal, great friend. (She's more like, you're ummm, sad? Or happy? Not many of the other feeling-words in her quiver...) Thanks for reminding me I can reach out though. I need to do it more. The depression has me isolating a lot lately, and the Rx makes me sleepy. I have been avoiding doing things. Thanks for the reminder.

Hi PB,
You're saying you may not dialogue with Portia for a while, right? (I am sure people decide to not dialogue with me too sometimes, because I'm so active here. H&H, this is where people ask how I am! ((())))  I'm learning not to relive the playground...I hope.) I'm figuring that's what you meant because Portia started this thread addressed to LoH and you came in... You can of course just skip reading Portia if you need a rest from her voice.

For me, it hurts a bit to have someone ask me to just be quiet...I kind of felt that way when you posted about me the other day that you were tired of me. Please do just skip over me, okay? I need this place, and I need the freedom to post all I feel inclined to. I certainly don't mean to be oppressive though, and I do want anyone to skip over me who's needing a break from my voice.

Thanks,
Hops

[Portia]

H&H
Wine at lunchtime, I can’t take it, it’s like it has the power x3!

Hops
This is useful, thank you
of briefly acknowledging a feeling and then going cerebral...I think it happens very quickly and might even happen in posts sometimes, which might possibly be a reason that some people who don't know you well or "get" you feel some unease. It's like...a discontinuity. Jeez I hope that doesn't sound critical, as I surely don't intend it that way. Am just hoping it's a helpful thing, if it's a right intuition.

Yah, then they ask me about my feeeelings and I’m like, hey, what? Not always, but sometimes. I don’t like being touched and asking me to emote can feel like that! I’m trying to talk about ‘I feel’ a bit more but it’s not easy because you’re right, I steamroller through feelings. But it depends who’s asking of course. If I know the person is a feeler in particular, I’ll try more. But I recognise that it’s tricky. And I do take things for granted – that others see things the way I do, and that’s not how it works.

This is a cool subject . Can I go for it? Please Hops? INTJ in full flow because it’s fun? It’s fun to be different and communicate it?
I think it happens very quickly and might even happen in posts sometimes
Yes. I imagine so. Probably does. It’s how I am. Really! (“Oh I’m so mad about that! Oh well.”)

which might possibly be a reason that some people who don't know you well or "get" you feel some unease.

Could be. I think you felt uneasy with me once or twice. No problem. I don’t blame you. I feel uneasy around some people too. I feel uneasy with over-emotion as I would see it. I feel uneasy with things that extraverts might like. Doesn’t mean they’re white and I’m black. Not sure I can change – or want to change – though. I know it sounds terrible (does it, to you?) but …… ideas and opinions and thoughts shared with people are more important to me than…being loved, having friends to emote with. Seriously. I find sharing emotions (discussing emotions versus ideas) …….. well, it’s like cake and cheese. I like cake, I enjoy cake but when it’s gone, it’s gone. But cheese I love! Cheese I can eat and discuss and look forward to and reflect upon (great cheeses I’ve eaten) and even read about.

I hope that doesn't sound critical
No it doesn’t and what’s more, I would strive to understand anything you said to me Hops because I trust your intentions. Even if it sounded critical (and it doesn’t), I’d wonder what was up, I wouldn’t take it personally. I’d worry about you.  Maybe you’d like me to be more like you and I can understand why (intro v extra). But I wouldn’t be me then. Would I like you to be more like me? Honestly, one time, yes, I wanted you to be more like me. Then I let it go and decided you wouldn’t be you and the person I like very much. Differences are good.

those bursts of laughter seem nervous...so I think what sometimes some folks could interpret as casual or sarcastic isn't that at all.
If folks are interested enough, they can ask me hey? If I know I’m not being casual or sarcastic, that’s all that matters.  But I hope the laughter doesn’t seem that way to you at any point and if it does, you can tell me and I hope you would and not be fearful in any way? I don’t want to be feared at all. The thought of that makes me fearful, seriously. I can be intense and focussed; but not with ill-intent. I care about who I care about. Introverts – narrow (few) and deep; extraverts broad (many) and shallow. It’s true. So many things I am simply not interested in, couldn’t give a hoot (fashion, opera, theatre to an extent, most fiction) but those things I am interested in, I go deeply into.

So...anybody who doesn't feel as though they know you, the laughing-blitz might have them feeling a little off-balance.
I don’t feel bad about that ...although I might tone down the laughing in light of 'off-balance', i don't want to affect anyone adversely....but what matters to me is:
Maybe that's why I feel so comfortable with you.
I felt that very deeply. Thank you Hops for your generosity, kindness and willingness to relate to someone (me) who I think is so far in many ways from the sort of person you might normally be comfortable with? Maybe not (having read further about your friend).

So I get into the habit sometimes of walling off my feelings. I know I hardly ever cry.

Hops, you need comfort, love, people-connections more than I do. I’m feel pretty sure of that difference, seeing how you react here. I wish I wish you more loving people in your life. I really don’t like the picture I have of you coming home like that. I might be different, but I can empathise for goodness sake and I wouldn’t like that, none of us is an island. ((((((((((((((Hops)))))))))))))

Hops! Last post above: I read pb different to you and I’ll say why below. But about you: I need this place, and I need the freedom to post all I feel inclined to. I certainly don't mean to be oppressive though, and I do want anyone to skip over me who's needing a break from my voice.

Hops, I don’t see how you could be oppressive, I don’t see it. Who needs a break from your voice? It sounds like you’re a …what…I’m dredging my past…you’re a problem to be tolerated, an unwelcome person? Hops? That’s my past. I was unwanted, I was unwelcome (facts, not emoting here) and I wouldn’t want you to feel that you are in any way unwanted here; not when you are valued and loved here, as you are. Your voice is an asset, a caring helpful force.

Pb

I feel very comfortable with you too. 
I do with you too. Very happy to say so too.

Which is why...I feel comfortable...saying sometimes - I need a short break, just a moment of rest from Portia.  It's a boundary thing.  Again, think about me and how I must be feeling, and try....try not to take it personally.  K?
Yes, any time, and it’s okay with me and no, I don’t take it personally as against me. I take it that “enough” means “enough” on a subject. I also think it means it’s okay to say hi and talk about other stuff though? A moment of rest means, to me, leave off the personals but it doesn’t mean you’re at loggerheads with me, that’s how I see it. I think we like things in each other and would find it difficult to have a head-on collision as such. I just don’t see that. Hope I’m right coz I’ll be “doh!” otherwise. Which won’t be unusual!

Better go for now, take care.

[Hops]

Portia dearie:

I hope the laughter doesn’t seem that way to you at any point and if it does, you can tell me and I hope you would and not be fearful in any way?

Lawsy, NO. I like you trust you and am saving up for a plane ticket so I can fly across the pond (did Mud know it was that big??) and come have a pint and tape-record your accent, ducks.

(I was exerting my rescue-everyone-from-everything skills/propensities, or more properly, wanting immensely to perhaps see if I had "intuited" something about your style of expressing yourself, and by "explaining" that to you and everybody else, then anybody who did find you opaque in moments, wouldn't misjudge you! My gut says you are sterling.)

There you go! I am an interfering busybody. And I would not suggest for a moment that you alter your unique Portia-ness one iota.     So there.

And you have so got my number...I am an extravert out the wazoo, but I have a saving grace:
I love cheese.

And you too! You have looked at me in the kindest light.
Hugs,
Hops

[lightofheart]

Hi Portia,

Gosh, a little shocking to see my name up in lights, so to speak. Thanks for reaching out and the trust involved. 

Why didn’t I react to you? I didn’t feel threatened by you.

[/color]
I appreciate that, lots, especially at a time when you felt 'off the rails'. Glad, too, that you waited for peace in your heart to respond.

So, between the two, if someone ever told me they didn't want to talk to me, I would need a whole lot of convincing from them, directly, before I ever said so much as hello again.

Why would you need a lot of convincing LoH?

[/color]

Not because I felt threatened, but out of respect. My childhood home was a scary place for years. One of the good gifts I took from that is I almost never take people for granted. I just can't. Other people's needs and feelings are important to me. So, if you, P., or anyone else said you didn't want to talk to me again, I would feel a sacred trust to honor that. That's how I see trust: it's absolutely sacred to me. When someone shares their feelings or speak their needs, I feel that they've handed me something precious and one thing they're saying, implicitly, is, I think you will care about these needs or feelings I'm sharing with you, L., even if they're hard to hear. I might still want to talk, but I would see their spoken need not to talk as a respect issue, and the least I could accept.

I’m an introvert. I live for my internal world. I do not live for other people, for relationships. If I have to compromise my integrity to be liked by people, I’ll choose to be hated. No hesitation in that choice. Extraverts can hesitate over the question, it means so much more to them to be liked and accepted by others. Apparently. This is about trusting our own judgment.

I guess if extraverts make a huge error of judgement, they will look outside themselves for the answer. They will look to others, to the external world, to re-align their thinking. I guess extraverts will ask others: what’s happening? Is this person okay? What do you think? And their sense of existence, their world, becomes more solid with the more external input they receive.

[/color]

Well, for one example, I'm an extrovert and I'd choose to be hated over compromising my integrity, too. It's not something I've considered before, but I definitely see a difference between extroverts and 'people pleasers.' I'm the former but polar opposite of the latter. Maybe why someone is an introvert or extrovert and how happy they are within that makeup has more to do with how much approval a person does or doesn't need and where they look for it than an 'innie' or 'outie' distinction?

Does that mean that extraverts naturally find it easier to trust others, but find it more difficult to trust themselves?

When we talk about trusting others here, do extraverts understand just what a big issue that is for introverts?

[/color]

Trust, like insecurity vs. comfort in one's own skin, is something I wouldn't want to generalize about based on personality type. I think some extroverts are scared to spend a minute alone in their head and some just really thrive on the human-to-human exchange.

I think, now, if I’m confused about something, it would help me to examine my confusion closely and try to work out where that comes from.

[/color]

Yes, Portia, true, I think. This was the first step to working on behaviors/reactions I didn't like in myself. To understand them, most of all without blame. imho, banging my head over who I am is a conduit to further head banging, not a path to change.

No Light of Heart you haven’t sad anything at all that I find hurtful. My emotional response to your post was good, warm feelings in my chest and I trust those feelings! It’s all work in progress for me.

[/color]

I'm smiling over this, over all of this. Especially trusting those good feelings; hope you keep on truckin' with the whole bag!

Best to you, Portia, and Everyone,

 
LoH

[Portia]

Hops

Half the time I get it, half the time I don’t.

Trouble is, I don’t know which half is which!!! (insert huge long haha’s here please )

I had verbal bleurgh yesterday, couldn’t stop gabbing on, you get the idea.

In my yoof, I used to drink pints of weird concoctions, one was called Red Witch (cider and blackcurrent I think) and another with Guinness and blackcurrent and I seem to remember another which had a measure of Pernod added…that must have been cider? Pints, aye. I can’t manage them now!

Thanks for your calming explanation.

and by "explaining" that to you and everybody else, then anybody who did find you opaque in moments, wouldn't misjudge you!

Thank you for explaining me to others. I do the same thing, or try to (explain others to others).  I think the urge to do that is a helpful one, a good barometer of intention and a caring heart. Long may your caring heart be much appreciated. And on the odd occasion when it might not be? You can’t win them all and frankly, who wants to.

And I would not suggest for a moment that you alter your unique Portia-ness one iota.
This really touched me. That I am okay as I am. Maybe it’s going into the head and heart….(insert smiling heart emoticon beating happily). Okay! Mushy stuff! (sound of feet pattering away)

Cheese. (((((((((((Hops)))))))))))))



LoH

Thanks for replying and sorry about your name in lights; I overlooked what effect that might have on you in particular! Sorry.

Re: not talking/respect/trust: think we might be talking about different things? I understand about respecting and trust re other people not wanting to talk. What I was interested in was why you would take a lot of convincing to restart conversation with them? Perhaps you wouldn’t trust them (the validity of their original request) if they asked for a resumption? I was interested in this part because yes I will respect someone’s request not to talk and I will wait and see what happens. If they want to resume (and I’m not threatened or wary/untrusting), then that’s their choice and I’ll be open to them. I wouldn’t want them to convince me of their wish to resume; I’d take them at face value to the level of trust which I have for them.   

About: Other people's needs and feelings are important to me. So, if you, P., or anyone else said you didn't want to talk to me again, I would feel a sacred trust to honor that.

I’m thinking, if I said that to you, wouldn’t you want to know why I felt that way? Wouldn’t you feel hurt? I would. I’d feel misunderstood maybe, I’d want to know what I had done so terribly wrong that you didn’t want to talk to me. If I care about you and what you feel about me, I’d find it very difficult to accept that you didn’t want to communicate with me.

I would probably question my judgement about you, think I had misjudged in some way. I’d made a mistake, or there’s a huge misunderstanding between us.

If you said you didn’t want to talk to me again (ever?), I’d accept your choice. I wouldn’t try and communicate. What would I be honouring - your request, or myself, or both (and which comes first)? Just wondering if you put others before yourself LoH, but I may be totally misunderstanding what you mean here.

Maybe why someone is an introvert or extrovert and how happy they are within that makeup has more to do with how much approval a person does or doesn't need
Agreed, I think so too. And ‘yes’ to everything else you said, thank you LoH .

[lightofheart]

Hi Portia,

No worries about the name in lights, really; your good intentions shone through and I'm safe from stagefright here in my comfy chair. I take it as a compliment that you care enough to ask questions and look for clarity. I feel like I know you better for this thread. 

What I was interested in was why you would take a lot of convincing to restart conversation with them? Perhaps you wouldn’t trust them (the validity of their original request) if they asked for a resumption?

[/color]
I think 'whole lot of convincing' was imprecise shorthand on my part; I typed in a rush, meant to go back and edit at the end and didn't. I try to take people at face value whenever I can. But I think face value requires honesty and trust. In this instance, I would ask questions before resuming because I'd need to feel sure that saying 'let's talk again' came with a real change of heart, as I see this as a high stakes situation emotionally, for both people involved. Maybe a real life example would make this more clear on my part?

A few years ago, I had a close friend, T., who described me as her best friend. Our H.s were close, loved her child, we were all thick as thieves. Our friendship had always been long distance; we met in a city where she was arriving and I was departing. We talked on the phone, had great visits for several years. Then I moved to the same city as T. She was thrilled, introduced me to all her friends.

But, almost immediately, I found across-town T. to be a very different person than the T. I thought I knew. Her circle of friends seemed to embrace a kind of bitter complaining and sarcasm I couldn't relate to. I saw a lot of hostility in her, towards her H. and, increasingly, me. I tried to compensate for this when she and I were alone together, but I think the more positive I was, the more I annoyed her. So I backed away, carefully, because our H.s had been friends first, and I hoped if I could back off gracefully they could carry on and she and I could re-shape things to a less intimate friendship. (Miscalculaton on both counts, which saddened me).

Months later, she called me late one night and asked why we weren't friends anymore. Stunned me. In retrospect, I think I accidentally handled it well. I admitted, at length, all the ways I felt like I had contributed to distance in our friendship and apologized. I shared my impression that her local friends disliked me, and based on the way they badmouthed whomever wasn't around, told her I assumed they did the same about me. This was hard, but it did feel freeing once I waded in. I did not say one word about her behavior, because I'd seen no evidence of honest self-assessment on her part since I'd moved there. When I finished, T. said, "Well, I can forgive all that, why don't we start over?" And, truly, I appreciated the honesty in that: she really didn't see herself as having anything to apologize for, so she didn't. imho, she didn't see herself at all, and I knew I couldn't have a healthy/balanced friendship with someone who isn't self-aware. I knew the friendship was over, despite what she said, because she was still in the same place.

About: Other people's needs and feelings are important to me. So, if you, P., or anyone else said you didn't want to talk to me again, I would feel a sacred trust to honor that.

I’m thinking, if I said that to you, wouldn’t you want to know why I felt that way? Wouldn’t you feel hurt? I would. I’d feel misunderstood maybe, I’d want to know what I had done so terribly wrong that you didn’t want to talk to me. If I care about you and what you feel about me, I’d find it very difficult to accept that you didn’t want to communicate with me.

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Hurt, yes; misunderstood, maybe; curious, definitely. Difficult to accept? Maybe in my heart, but I would honor the request anyway. I wouldn't see my hurt and desire to know as more important than your (difficult) request for a break, temporary or forever. Personally, I know I've been guilty of obsessiveness, and insensitivity as a result, around my need to be understood. So I try to watch for that.

If you said you didn’t want to talk to me again (ever?), I’d accept your choice. I wouldn’t try and communicate. What would I be honouring - your request, or myself, or both (and which comes first)? Just wondering if you put others before yourself LoH, but I may be totally misunderstanding what you mean here

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Well, outside of my swampier issues, I don't consider my motivations much. I'm a run with the vibe person, especially interacting with people. Best guess, I think I'd be honoring all of the above, because I see honoring other people as something I do for me. Feels good. So far as putting others first, I don't see that in myself. I think I'm a very selfish person in terms of my needs and behavior, nearly 100% about me. I think that's countered by generally good intentions. I think selfish people with good intentions can do a lot of good in the world, especially it's not about validation/recognition/control/acceptance but just a simple expression of joy and self.

Thank you, too, Portia. Sorry for rambling on...guess I see well-intentioned questions as worth answering thoroughly, if I can.

Best, and Happy Weekends to Eveyone,
LoH