abusive communities

[Anonymous]

did anyone else grow up in a community where it was typical for men to use domestic violence to get their own way, and where women were second-class citizens who could not truly grow, change or achieve within the community, until they left?

The men from my home town fit all the criteria of narcissism, yet it seems a cultural rather than personal phenomenon.

[movinon]

Do you live in the Deep South of the US by any chance?  I grew up there and I can totally relate.  I even tried to open up to my sister about what's going on and she totally minimized it.  Yes, I come from a male-loving family.

[bean as guest]

I come from a male loving family--but mostly because my N Dad is the larger ass of the two and was always putting down my N Mom, belittling her, and telling jokes at her expense.  Anything women might want to discuss was seen as "insignifant" compared to what the males wanted to talk about. 

We also always assumed my Mom wouldn't work (despite several degrees) but later I realized my Dad Begged her not too, that's how insecure he was.

I didn't even realize how abnormal this all was until I got away--far away, in years and distance.  I realized after going to college and getting a job in a male dominated field (Engineering) that people respected me Even Though I'm a woman.  It's great to get that validation and makes my stupid family (Dad and often brothers) seem immature and way behind the times.

bean

[mum]

 I immediately thought "deep south"....wow, seemed like a stereotype, but if you grew up there....
 
I grew up in the Northeast in a hotbed of women's right's activities and went to college in the thick of the ERA and feminist movements.
 
I am now appalled at the regression that seems to be happening, culturally in America in general: just watch any "makeover" show!! I currently live in the southwest and high school seniors  (especially in the affluent school district I teach in) regularly get plastic surgery gifts (usually breast enlargement) for graduation from thier parents! I guess that sends a message to your daughter, eh? (become a trophy wife, sweetie...we know what's important)
Geeez: It was enough for us to get braces when we were kids!!  I am praying that the northeast is a little less "Barbie" influenced still.

Ok, I got off topic.  I do think it is cultural. I teach where we have many families from other countries moving in, and I see a few new families each year where the girls are well behaved, kind and studious (and almost too shy) and the brothers are unruly, rude and lazy.  They figure it out after a while (like that doesn't cut it here) but I still see the boys throw their backpacks at the mothers after school (and they carry them!) and then run off out of control. 
Hate to pin it on any culture in particular, though.....we've all got our demons in the equality department!

[Hopalong]

I don't think this culture loves men either. We just try to kill off their spirits when they're little in different ways.

The hard-right religious stuff is happening right along with the retro stuff for both genders. I think there's a connection between fundamentalist religion and sexual exploitation...

But then this country (U.S. anyway) came from the Puritans, so we've still got that hysteria about sexuality buried just a few generations back. It's still in us but we fear it, I think it erupts in decadence. Then throw in billions of dollars to be made off those appetites by media...and poor kids.

My two-bit treatise.

Hopalong

[Portia guest]

did anyone else grow up in a community where it was typical for men to use domestic violence to get their own way, and where women were second-class citizens who could not truly grow, change or achieve within the community, until they left?

The men from my home town fit all the criteria of narcissism, yet it seems a cultural rather than personal phenomenon.

Hi Anonymous

Quick question. I'm intruiged!   How did you post your message without having to display an email address? I'm curious and trying it myself now...nope it didn't work. All I got was:

The following error or errors occurred while posting this message:
No email address was provided.
An invalid email address was given.

You're clever! How do you do it please? Portia

[Portia guest]

Duh! Hahahaha that’s funny!

The first post is dated two years ago, 2004, that’s how come the email doesn’t show. (Old style board stuff.)

Movinon you’ve really been through the archives

I’m telling myself to check little things like dates (facts? reality?) before I go asking questions. Or maybe just to say:

apologies all, as you were, question answered. P

[Sela]

It takes so much more courage to apologise than delete a post.
It's great to choose to laugh at yourself, rather than pick one of so many other choices available.

Way to go Portia!  Seriously adult stuff happening there.

Re: This topic

I didn't grow up in such a town and I just wanted to say, Annon:

That must have been very difficult for you.  I mean...how do you know what "normal" is?......when every one is living the same what must feel like.....messed up "normal".... which must feel very bad and wrong and awful.  I hope you have gotten away from there!

Did you find yourself repeating that scenario?  Did you marry someone domestically violent who treats/treated you like a second class citizen?

(((((((Annon)))))))

Sela

[write]

I think a lot of communities are abusive, we already discussed churches, but occupational culture/ workplace bullying and cliques are just as bad + I've seen people get chased of websites/message boards.

I'm getting to the point I don't want to belong to almost anything...

[Portia]

Hiya Sela 
It takes so much more courage to apologise than delete a post.

I wasn’t going to delete…..and if I was….I couldn’t I don’t think? Having not logged in? I didn’t log-in to ask that *pant pant* highly-triggered board-vigilant red-flag question!  Haha!  Noooo, I was too quick off the mark. Reacting instead of pondering. And also actually curious too. I had to make a cup of coffee (the 40 minute cup of coffee) before it occurred to me:  dates, check the date. Hahahaha yes I laughed. *sigh* *roll over* *tickle tummy please*

What caused you to think of deleting posts?

It's great to choose to laugh at yourself, rather than pick one of so many other choices available.
I do laugh at myself, all the time, faster than before. And I’m not going to take responsibility for things that aren’t mine.

Way to go Portia!  Seriously adult stuff happening there.

You know me so well. You know all the crap attached to two little posts.

Thank you ((((((Sela))))))


Hiya Write
I'm getting to the point I don't want to belong to almost anything...

Me too!  But wait……..I’ve nearly always been like that.
Does not wanting to belong signify a strengthening of our own beliefs and values?

I agree in as much as I see many groups as (potentially and actually) abusive. 

I prefer individuals to groups. I like talking and listening to individuals. I don’t like groups or group-think (contradiction in terms?). There’s a good quote about groups…about the group thinking being at the lowest intelligence level versus the intelligence (or is it *conscience*?) of the individual…???? Can’t remember it right now.

((((((write))))))

[write]

Does not wanting to belong signify a strengthening of our own beliefs and values?

I think in my case I've just given up and become a recluse!

But that's ok, maybe in my 40s I shall rise like a phoenix from the ashes...!!!

When we first moved here I volunteered at school- for about 3 weeks until I'd heard enough gossip and back-stabbing to realise the women I was talking to might sit in church every week, but they weren't very Christian.
At least I am getting good at spotting toxic environments now, and leaving them quickly!

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((())))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

[Surrounded]

Oh--holy cow you guys.....SO many things to relate to!!

I grew up in a male dominated community which was dominated by a male dominated religion.    Always hated it.  And the women....eeeeew-----yup, sitting in church every week and playing nice just so they can stab each other in the back with a smile pasted on their face!  Don't even get me started on the sick men!!

Still very much entrenched in the same community, but as I have made a stand to be different and hence become a loner, I actually feel pretty good about me.  I feel I am thinking for myself and that is always most important.    That goes for standing up to family as well. (I have actually had people at my door to harrass me about why I don't come to their church anymore---actual demands to go and bullies with intimidation techniques. )  Men, of course.  Since they lead us women.   Sick.  They just use God to get their way.  Obedience.  Mind games instead of violence for the most part. 

I can handle the rejection for now, but I worry lots about my kids. They get shut out too and that is not fair for them.

 I am systematically finding myself a loner by standing up against the bull****!!  (Sorry)  And finding I CAN think for myself and I am getting stronger in spirit, I think.  So, yeah, I think you are right!!

I think, I think, I think......WOW!

I think...therefore, I AM------ALONE.       Better stop now, I am getting weird.

Take care ALL!

[write]

I can handle the rejection for now, but I worry lots about my kids. They get shut out too and that is not fair for them.

oh G_d, me too....he has no friends here, even my friend's children aren't always friendly with him!

The parents make the kids mean here somehow.

[mum]

In "the Power of Intention", Wayne Dyer talks about how he has become less "social" throughout the years due to his more reflective way of life. (or it might be another book of his....duh)

I remember back in high school, I wrote and illustrated a small hand bound  "book" instead of writing a paper (they didn't know WHAT to make of me!) in a philosophy or religion class. The basis of the book was  about how relationships were such a pain (much more artistically writtten mind you) that I was becoming an introvert because of it. (which I was not really)

Another high school thing just came up: I remember that one girl, who I admired very much, wrote in my high school yearbook that I was the "individual's individual". I was always happy someone noticed that although I was friends with the jocks (as a swimmer) and the artistic types (as an artist),  I never quite fit in to any group to the point of losing my own identity. Maybe I had more of my s**t together as a teenager than I did later on!!

So even though I lost myself to a couple of a**h***s for a bit, I guess I can come back to that girl any time I want. ( I am now sooo much more like that than I have been in a long time...maybe I kinda liked myself back then or something).

My second husband was SUPER social, to the point of NEVER being alone, never being without a drink in his hand (well, that explains most of it) and I had my fill of trashy gossip, stupid "must make an appearance" parties and empty "psuedo-intellectual bull" from drunk artists to last a lifetime!  Life on the surface is soooo.....SHALLOW. That must be why they they drink all the time.

So now: Although I am friendly with many,  I mostly hang out with myself, my family, my dogs and just a few other people, and that's it.

[Hopalong]

Mum, you sound really healthy. Your description of your unfrantic conncectedness has a wonderful solidity and peacefulness about it.

I think a lot of people's differences might also be personality type.
I'm a strong Extrovert (despite the repressive dogma of childhood religion, had a lot of warm associations with kindly people and potlucks...kind potlucks?) so bonding with my church does bring me happiness. As I will be there for a lot of them as they get older, they likewise will be here for me. We have a wonderful network...nobody endures sickness or crisis alone, we keep track of each other in a good way. I first joined 25 years ago...it comforts me to see the same people, now getting old, that I first knew when they were my age...gives me a wheel of life context I couldn't get in my own splintered family. For me, it's like the good things about family without the toxins.

I like the way you know who you are, and admire even more that you value yourself for it.
I admire it a lot, since I gather it was hard won.

Hopalong