Now THIS I find amazing

[reallyME]

I posted the very quotes from someone on this board...PROVED to you all, that I was told first to answer questions and then not to respond, and not one of you said "hey, that was a mixed message!"  "hey! bait and switch goin on there"  Ummmm, and you all were raised or acquainted with N's?  So are we all TRULY voiceless when such a blatant thing happens on this message board?  You see an N trait played out right before your eyes, and stand back to watch it happen and watch the person be utterly blasted.  hmmmm, giving me some thoughts here for sure.  Thanks so much for exhibiting another "bystander effect" all who saw this and did NOTHING.

~ReallyDISAPPOINTED

[penelope]

I made a mistake.  I admit it. 

ya know, in a weird way I'm glad that I said something about how you make me feel RM, cause if you really needed attention that badly, I'm happy to give you some.


ciao, bean

[reallyME]

 

[Sela]

Hi RM and Pb:

I want to ask you both something and I hope that it won't be interpreted to mean that I am taking sides or trying to stir up conflict or sticking my nose in where it doesn't belong or that I am having some reaction or projecting junk from the past or that I'm some kind of evil being here looking for drama or that my intention is in any way designed to cause harm or to make things worse.  I really hope that won't happen because this is just a simple question for both of you to consider and maybe answer, if you feel like it, which could possibly help you communicate with eachother ....your intentions/wishes.  If it doesn't help, please know that it is my intent to help by asking and please do your best to just ignor this whole post if it's not helping.

What do you want, in regard to communication with eachother, and what are your intentions when you post to eachother?

Sela

[portia guest]

Laura

Laura, I don’t know what happened, I haven’t read it. Did you get utterly blasted? Did it hurt, are you upset, rendered voiceless – did you feel abused? Are you able to respond and react for yourself? Because:

Thanks so much for exhibiting another "bystander effect" all who saw this and did NOTHING.

I might have said something if I saw someone be abusive towards someone else. But I didn’t see it because i haven't read it. Thinking about you and me though, aren’t we able to speak for ourselves? I don’t expect anyone to speak up for me here because of the persona I show here. This is a psychology board, first and foremost I think, or at least that's how I see it.

On the other hand, if I think something is abusive, I’ll say so. I don’t know how I would react in a real ‘bystander effect’ situation, but those old experiments showed that 65% of people don’t act. That’s the majority. You know the reasons? – diffused responsibility etc. Please don’t blame or shame anyone here for not acting. The majority of people don’t act – fact. And hey, nobody dies here. What happened to you - others may not interpret as abusive (possible? i don't know.) It’s words. Words can hurt but it’s not the same as witnessing a rape in front of your house. Yes?


Pb

You made a mistake (you say) but are you sorry in any way? Just wondering. You don’t sound sorry, you sound as though you might want to add fuel to the fire so to speak. Hey I can do that too. I wonder what it is in certain people that sets me off. I guess I must be seeing remnants of my parents or even parts of my dark side in them. Or the style of exchange might be too 'familiar' for me to resist (I'm working on it, or trying to....).


Sela, I like your question. Nothing wrong with it as far as I can see. My opinion.


I don’t know. Sometimes these relationships (and I think Laura and Pb, you are in a relationship, because both parties engage, it’s not like one ignores the other or doesn’t care, both of you seem to care enough in some way to continue) have to play out. Laura and Pb, maybe you both see this? And maybe I’ll butt out now, maybe not, see what happens. It's all work in progress eh?

Take care all, bye for now

[penelope]

jac,

I was truly sorry and I was truly looking for a way to resolve my conflict with reallyme.

It's OK if no one here understands that.  I understand it in my heart.

I also understand all the people's voices who've PM'd me who have said that reallyme is really gouging old wounds of their's - I can relate to that and maybe thus the appropriate thing to do is to invite them to PM me about it, I will listen and understand.  I've not posted to or about reallyme before yesterday for many months, so not sure how I can be stirring her up?

take care, jac

I don't see much of myself in reallyme, but I do see my abusers there.  And some others do too.  By the way - I think talking about abuse behind people's backs is perfectly OK for anyone who needs to, if that is the only safe place they can find on this board.

bean

[penelope]

hi sela -

I will try to post an answer to you objectively, but it's a little hard to hear over all the loud buzzing in my head, which is what happens when people seem not to understand.

Reallyme and I aren't having another (new) conflict.  I simply asked if she wouldn't make mean references to me in her posts, which I occasionally do read.  I said that her words had a tremendous affect on my as she reminds me of my abusers (N mom and sisters) or other people that I don't particularly like.  So that was my intent in posting to her.  Also, others have expressed this too, and I wanted them to know that if reallyme is scaring and intimidating them too, that they are not alone.

Now let me ask you a question sela:

What do you want, in regard to communication with us, and what are your intentions when you post to us?

I'll wait for your answer.

bean

[penelope]

Pb

You made a mistake (you say) but are you sorry in any way? Just wondering. You don’t sound sorry, you sound as though you might want to add fuel to the fire so to speak. Hey I can do that too. I wonder what it is in certain people that sets me off. I guess I must be seeing remnants of my parents or even parts of my dark side in them. Or the style of exchange might be too 'familiar' for me to resist (I'm working on it, or trying to....).


Sela, I like your question. Nothing wrong with it as far as I can see. My opinion.


I don’t know. Sometimes these relationships (and I think Laura and Pb, you are in a relationship, because both parties engage, it’s not like one ignores the other or doesn’t care, both of you seem to care enough in some way to continue) have to play out. Laura and Pb, maybe you both see this? And maybe I’ll butt out now, maybe not, see what happens. It's all work in progress eh?

Take care all, bye for now

hi Portia, how are ya?  I'm sorry I did not sound sorry to you - cause I truly did feel sorry that we weren't communicating, reallyme and I.  Not sure how I can convey that better, do you have an particular suggestions about how I could write that more genuinely, or so it comes across more genuinely, cause I gave it my all, and if it didn't have its intended affect (reallyme can say whether she thinks it did or not) then maybe you two have some specific suggestions on how I could sound more sincere.  Cause I certainly am feeling quite sincere in my request to

1) not have mean things said about me

2) apologize for any harm I might have caused reallyme which would cause her to want to continue to say mean, hateful things to and about me

So yes, I'm confronting her directly about this and I'm real sorry this happend.  Everytime she posts to or about me, I'm sorry for whatever it is I may have done (Reminded her of Jodi?) that she can't seem to get out of her head.  I wonder if there's anything I can say that will help at this point. 

I tried appealing to her humanistic side, and I did not lie when I said others are struggling too.  They have not vocalized this (other than seeker) in any of the threads, that I know of, but they are hurting too I believe.  From the PM's.

My theory is this:  people come to this board at all different levels and places of healing for support, not just info.  Reallyme's flippant and careless attitude, and the way she often responds, reminds them of their abusers.  It's so harmful to some people, I think they have real anxiety about it.  That's the sense I get from reading some of the PM's anyway.  I have felt this at times, but sometimes reallyme is just an annoyance; other times, when I'm really trying to delve deeper into something painful, her comments have to potential to do great harm to me as I am very honest and forthcoming here, and trusting.  I guess I shouldn't trust everyone here though, it's my nature to do so cause I wan't to heal.  But I have to be guarded with her, which is sad in a place that should be about healing for all.

Maybe if enough of us are feeling bad about this, we can approach Dr G and ask him what to do about it.  I don't expect many of you to understand and I have my ideas about why that is too.  Some of you are much more healthy than a lot of people that come here, and thus perhaps someone like reallyme wouldn't intimidate you, or phase you at all.  But some of us have a real aversion to this.  Some of us are truly more sensitive than others and it has to do to our specific pasts.  Can you understand this Portia?  Can you comprehend that although reallyme might not be scary to you, that she could be scary to others?  Remember marta?  Was she scary to you?  She was not scary to me, but I think some people reacted negatively to her "advice" too.

It is a kind thing to tell someone when they're hurting you as it gives them an opportunity to self reflect.  If I'd hurt anyone here, I certainly hope they'd tell me - and not just give the careless advice I've seen thus far on this thread "well it looks to me like - although I don't really know what I'm saying..."  well, then I guess my question is, if you can't empathize, and feel what I'm feeling, why are you responding?  You don't know, if you're assuming I'm not sorry and don't have the best intentions for myself and my own health, why have you responded here?  Isn't that a bit careless?

Just some things to think about.  I'm going to go off and work on cars with my b/f for the rest of the day, and not sure if I'll be back or not, but you've certainly given me a lot to think about here.  I don't know if it's all good or bad or what.  Maybe it's just stuff to think about.  But I do know what my intentions are, and it's not to Start a conflict.  It's to resolve one that has been ongoing for me and others. 

It's to say - Ow.  That hurt, what you just said, can you please not say that again?  That is setting a boundary I think.  I don't know why it's so hard to understand that that's what I really want to do, I don't have ulterior motives.  I said the words hurt me, they're wounding me, can you please stop saying them to me? 

And I am sorry.  Very sorry, in more ways then I think anyone here will ever understand, but that's OK, cause I know myself - better each day, in fact.

bean

[portia guest]

Hi Pb

May I come back in?

I said that her words had a tremendous affect on my as she reminds me of my abusers (N mom and sisters) or other people that I don't particularly like.  So that was my intent in posting to her.  

This sounds fair enough to me! We don’t have to like everyone. Everyone doesn’t have to like us. People we don’t like will still exist though. They will still remind us of abusers. I think what’s important is how we deal with it.

If Laura/RM is saying things about you that are abusive – like saying “Pb is an N” there is answer. You say “I don’t think I am and I don’t care what you think.” And you don’t care.  So what about what others think or say about you Pb? What does their opinion matter to you? Why does it matter?

Or you go to the higher authority of Doctor G, if you wish.

One thing I don’t think it’s useful to do: is to try and retaliate. Or to try and get others to agree with you. What's the objective?

If there’s a genuine problem that lots of people have, let them tell Doctor G. Everyone takes responsibility themselves for how they feel, and they decide what action to take, if any. How does that sound?

Also, others have expressed this too, and I wanted them to know that if reallyme is scaring and intimidating them too, that they are not alone.

If RM is scaring and intimidating people, then they have the right to say so, themselves. In fact they could say it right here, if they feel strongly enough. Please don't be scared to speak. Who is too scared to speak? You can let me know on PM if you like. Or you can say right here: "I am too scared to speak about this." Pb, it’s one thing to agree with someone else “oh yes, I agree with you, that’s awful” while standing behind you…..

On the other hand, private conversations can be useful and helpful, a source of comforting reality-checks. I’d have to trust someone a lot to check board reality like that.

I must admit I don’t like groups forming against one member, that's why I'm speaking here, because I feel it's a possibility (i could well be wrong there). I just like to see the facts out in the open and the various involved people come forward to resolve any problems.

About Laura making "mean references" to you Pb, hey, it happens to a lot of us. It has happened to a lot of us here. We can't stop everyone saying mean things. That's what humans are like. We can only learn different ways of reacting and responding I think!


Just caught your next post Pb.....


boundaries are internal. Not external. You can only set your boundaries and act upon them. You cannot control other people through your boundaries. This is important. Sorry Pb got to go, will read more in detail tomorrow, take care (hey, if I didn't care, i wouldn't bother, and neither would you!).

[Sugarre]

In fact they could say it right here, if they feel strongly enough. Please don't be scared to speak. Who is too scared to speak?  (Portia)


I am. 

[penelope]

hi sugarre,

I know you are as petrified as reallyme as I am and I'm sorry.  I wish I could give you a great big hug through the computer, as I don't like how she's treated you either.  I have seen it and it's terrifying to watch her do it to others, as terrifying as when it happens to me.

((((((((((((((Sugarre)))))))))))))))))))


I find her behavior to be bullying, ambient abuse and it's made worse when ya'll come in like this and post carelessly and minimize how it feels to be picked on by her, in this manner.  Just because it's not happening to you or you don't have the same reaction doesn't mean it's not affecting us.  It feels like I'm being blamed for saying how reallyme makes me feel - like I shouldn't feel that.  I've said she acts and sounds and conveys the same feelings and emotions in me as my abusers.  Is she them?  no, but she has the same affect.  Knowing this, now why would she choose to continue to post to or about me?  There can only be one explanation in my mind, and that is that she enjoys making me feel bad.  or she just doesn't care, and can't help it (it's a compulsion)

bean

[Sugarre]

There can only be one explanation in my mind, and that is that she enjoys making me feel bad.  or she just doesn't care, and can't help it (it's a compulsion)


I think it is because she gets attention. 

[Sela]

Hi bean:

her words had a tremendous affect on my as she reminds me of my abusers (N mom and sisters) or other people that I don't particularly like.  So that was my intent in posting to her.  Also, others have expressed this too, and I wanted them to know that if reallyme is scaring and intimidating them too, that they are not alone.

So I think you mean your reason for posting to her was to give her information about how her words were affecting you and what those words reminded you of?  That you feel afraid and intimidated?  Also to let other people know you understand if they are also having a similar reaction?

Just making sure I'm understanding correctly.   So then your intention might be said to be to give RM information?  Maybe invite others to comment?  Then what do you wish to happen?  (I assume you want it to stop but I just thought it might be helpful to narrow it down to specifics?).

What do you want, in regard to communication with us, and what are your intentions when you post to us?

I was hoping  to possibly help you communicate with eachother ....your intentions/wishes a little more clearly.  I think I stated that already but I don't mind repeating it.  What I want is to support you both.  I think my post is darn claose to redunant now though maybe?

Sela

[penelope]

hi again portia,
yes, you may come back in.

you know I was thinking about this (in between handing wrenches) and one of the reasons you might be sensitive to this ganging up idea is that a lonnnnnnng time ago, I think a bunch of people on the board called out some behavior of yours that they did not like?  Did you feel ganged up on?

I have to admit that this is why I've hesitated bringing this up with reallyme.  I don't want her to feel ganged up on, and I certainly appreciate you and others "sticking up for her" (even though as you've always insisted, this it not what you think you're doing).

So that is another reason I decided to keep this out of PMs and put it here on the board for all to see, and comment on if they wish.  But I did send her I think two?  PM's (can't remember now).  And they both pretty much said what I'm saying here now.  

She's hurting me, could she please stop.  And if there's anything I've done to create or exacerbate the situation, will she now accept my apology?  That is how people learn and move on and grow, I believe.

And for all the talking we do on this board about communication, and how it's supposed to go, and all those fine examples jac keeps pulling off the internet and shoving in front of my nose - sometimes I find it a little ironic, that when I try to apply all that here - people are like:  Oh no, we didn't me do it HERE.  We meant with your Ns, elsewhere...

So that's the gosh darn irony of it for me.  I'm reading those articles, I have a pretty good grasp on them I think, so here I am, putting my little self out there for all other to Analyze.  That's what it feels like anyway.  It's like the one who finally breaks down and admits their feelings, and says what they're really thinking - people don't know how to react to that (and I've done it too, I'll admit.  When stormy was having problems with reallyme, I sat on the sidelines not knowing what to say).  I guess the appropriate thing to say storm, may have been - I know how you feel.  I'm sorry you feel that way, it sucks.

Lot of toughies here on this board, maybe.  Lotta folks trying to convince everyone how "together" they've all got it, maybe?  And wow, how the projections fly when someone like me gets honest.  

bean

[penelope]

hi sela -

Yes, it's nice and redundant, thank you.  (sometimes that's necessary when you got the old head buzzy thing going on).

OK, I like that sela.  Thank you for offering.

I'm waiting for reallyme to respond, if you're offering to mediate.

I do want some sort of resolution, yes.  For me and possibly others here too.  But don't want to gang up or become scary and intimidating myself - which is why I backed off yesterday (feeling exasperated, cause I don't want to become the abuser here)

bean