What's Happened to the Community? -- response to nightsong

[penelope]

hi Sugarbear,
I always look forward to your posts.  I'm glad you're here.   are you still here?  hello??? 
<<<<<<<<am I talking to myself???>>>>>>>>>>>>> (said in hollow cave)  Sometimes I don't answer posts that say "I think I'm leaving now" cause I figure I will not be heard.  Is that weird and selfish?  probably.  I'm afraid my typing will be a waste...all that expended effort.  Is that the appeal of all this conflict?  Is it that we know someone's listening to us if we get to their uncomfortable emotions?  Hmmmmmmmmmm.  see, you've give me a lot to think about, as usual.  Thank you sugarbear (((((((((((((((((((((sugarbear)))))))))))))))))))))))



kelly - not sure we've met.  hi

nightsong - hello.  I am sorry you are feeling that way.  are you still here???????  (heh.  guess I'm not past that uncomfortable feeling that you might not be listening.  yet.)

pb

[Overcomer]

HEY aLL!  Thanks for telling me you hear me even if you don't reply to me.............it makes me feel wanted!!   I am a tall girl.  5' 10" and have almost black hair.  I am pale and have blue eyes.  I think I should be remembered.  But so many times people will look at me with this puzzled look - it's almost like they are saying "should I know you?"  And I guess I would understand that if I wasn't this amazon woman.  Sometimes I feel so anonymous in a crowd.  You all know I've got the Nmom from hell - very interested in being the center of attention.  We started our business the same day........January 1994.....................people label me a "second generation" retailer.  I stand up in front of groups and say, "I AM NOT A SECOND GENERATION RETAILER........WE STARTED THE SAME DAY!!!  IN FACT, I KNOW MUCH MORE THAN MY MOM!!!"

So maybe I want to be heard.  I need to be heard.  So the fact that a few of you say, "Hey, Kelly, I agree with you!!"  I have a voice!!!!!!!!!

I HAVE A VOICE.  I HAVE A VOICE.  I HAVE A VOICE!!!  And you know what??  I am smart.  I probably have a lot to say if anyone would give me the time to say it!!!  Can you tell I have been pshawed and hushed my whole life from my egotistical, abusive, arrogant, prideful, narcissistic, bitchy mother!!!!!!!!!!??????????

Ok, a little bit of pent up aggression off my chest!!!!!  THAT is what this board is about!!!!

[Overcomer]

Oh, yeah....this is growth.  For the longest time I just had this feeling that I had a film all over my body and I just couldn't get it off.  That film was the feeling I had about all the control, etc. that my mom had on me.  I have three daughters and have done everything completely the opposite of my mom.  Therapy started years ago when my ex and I had some marital difficulties..................hadn't even heard the word codependent before that.  A long road has followed................I have gone through so much to finally figure out - I am not the problem...................she is.  My therapist diagnosed her as "Patient X."  The main problem in the whole family dynamic.  But now my main issue is frustration and anger.  However, I know that she is in the early stages of Alzheimers and I watched my gpa go through that.  I figure she has 10 years before she completely loses it........but she is losing it now............slowly.............most people don't see it but I do.

My oldest is a bit like my Nmom.....so I get it from the top and the bottom.  Oldest says mean things to me...................kind of sounds like the mean things I have been saying to my mom.  The truth with a hammer.................

[Overcomer]

I am worn out.......................someone said in an earlier post and I can't even remember what thread...................."here we go again."  Sometimes I think we disagree with each other and it is all over semantics.  My ex and I used to fight..........holler quite loudly................and we were agreeing.................we were just saying it in two different ways.  That's when it becomes funny.  When you are yelling and screaming at someone and you realize..............you're agreeing!!!

Dreamsinger, Sugarbear............hi!  Thanks for the voice.  Love being heard.  Love it, love it, love it!!

Don't we all just need to be heard?  To be validated?

You all are wonderful people who have so many great things to say!!  Good job today!!!

[penelope]

I hear you moon and kelly - you are having a nice conversation.  I'm just listening.   

pb

[WRITE]

For the longest time I just had this feeling that I had a film all over my body and I just couldn't get it off.

I think it's perfectly possible to make yourself invisible in a room by what vibes you give off- I do it consciously sometimes when I need some peace or am feeling, even though other times I can walk into a room and do the opposite.

Having had an N do that peculiar paying-attention-in-minute-detail-whilst-actually-not-even-seeing-you probably makes it a desirable thing, a way of projecting 'leave me alone' even when you can't escape.

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((    )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

[Overcomer]

Wow!!  I hadn't thought of that.  And just the opposite is true, too, huh?  The N walks into the room with her nose in the air and people cannot help but turn and look to see who has arrived.  Meanwhile, I'll stand back while she makes a spectacle of herself.  Overshadowed by the N.  And yet Nmom asks me why I am in competition with her???

Wouldn't you just like to be seen AND heard?????  Valued?

[penelope]

The competetive thing really strikes all my nerves too kelly.  I know what you mean.

My N Mom used to do that to me a lot - ask me why I was jealous, or "in competition with someone" (typically one of my siblings) and I was always like, what?  I knew she was jealous of me.  For everthing from how I did in school to my Dad's attention, to any talent I might have at anything.

I was so non-competetive too as a kid.  I remember my soccer coach yelling at me in 8th grade cause I passed off the ball and let someone else score, all the time (I never scored a goal, all the years I played soccer).  I thought to myself:  I'm just here for the fun and my friends, I don't care if I win.

Sometimes I was very jealous of my siblings.  They got more attention (the good kind) then I did.  I was the lost child (3rd), then scapegoat typically.  I was never a hero until recently, as an adult.  Then, the funny thing was I was the only kid of 6 who could do no wrong.  That's when I cut them off - I saw the sick irony of it.  I knew it was wrong and didn't/couldn't enjoy their attention then.  Not knowing my brothers & sisters were suffering.

The sad thing is, I'll probably be the only one to ever see their sick ways in my family.

*sigh*
 
sucks having a family but not being able to talk to them

pb

[Certain Hope]

Write,

  re:  that peculiar paying-attention-in-minute-detail-whilst-actually-not-even-seeing-you

That's it! It's so... objectified. Depersonalized. It's being reduced to the sum of just a few parts, and even if the parts being noted at the moment are positive, you just know that you've been reduced. Worse than invisible, I think.

Love,
Hope

[WRITE]

What would be the Christian view point be ?Just to love them is the best defense .

yes, I think you can love someone for who they are whilst recognising the limits of the relationship. That can mean lovong them in terms of wishing them love but keeping your distance whilst you heal too.

Many times down the years I have kcked myself for not just letting my ex and me be friends, and especially for the second marriage which failed within days really- right back to the same pattern. How could i be so stupid?!

He and I have a good relationship on and off, but when he's being obnoxious the only thing I can do is try to withdraw- physically if possible.

I think I am being loving to him by leaving him though, much more so than I was by staying in the relationship. He is coming around to seeing that gradually- with many relapses.

[Overcomer]

I remember as a teenager after I got my driver's license I was so out of there.  I finally had wings to fly away.  I'll have to admit, the pendulum probably swung way the other way and I got into drinking, smoking and the like................so when I came into the house I literally ran right up to my room, closed and locked the door and tried not to be seen.  So from that perspective, I guess I gave off vibes of trying to not be seen.  Couple that with being completely overshadowed by my "Joan Crawford" mother (another post.....) who totally fills up a room with her presence.......no wonder people don't see me.  Also, I am 46 years old and (thankfully) people think I am much younger.  Not so much that I look young, but my mom does because of all the plastic surgeries she has had to stay young looking.  So you have a 70 year old that looks 55..............that means she cannot have a 46 year old daugher so they assume I am maybe 30-35 years old.  So from that perspective they don't think I could have as much experience as I do. 

This summer I was on a panel with 4 gentlemen, pretty well known in my industry.  They were reading our bios.  They all were surprised when they heard I had a degree in Journalism and Mass communications and had 30 years experience in service, retail and sales.  Again.  They ASSUMED I didn't have that much experience or that I didn't have a degree................don't know why.  Invisible.  Overshadowed??

ASSUME.  Circle the Ass, circled the U and circle the ME.  When you assume you make an Ass out of You and Me!!  I'll always remember that!