N father

[portia guest]

I'm going out on a limb here, feel free to make your own mind up!

Liz tells you about your father's outrageous behaviour but fails to consider her part in the event. She's content to 'blame' your father for both his demands - and the outcome. No. Anyone, any bully, can demand, but nobody has to act on their demands. It takes a very strong person to stand up to a bully like that. Most people are not that strong. Most people are just trying to get by in life and 'not cause a fuss' (that's called fear).

There is nothing that exists as a single unit called a 'family'. It sounds good doesn't it? Family. Nice tight unit. It's an image, a concoction. A 'family' is a group of individuals living together under the same roof. There is no cohesive 'together' unit as such. Each member of the family experiences what happens in their own unique way (this is why siblings remember things so differently).

Each member of your family had their own reasons for tolerating your father. People need money to live. People need some strange things to feel worthwhile (like some people need to feel needed, others need to dominate to feel important, worthy). A family can be one of the most psychologically unhealthy things to be part of.

Congratulations! You survived and you survived well it seems. You have a good brain from what I read and you know how to use it.

You were trapped because you were a defenceless child without any rights. You needed love, approval, validation to thrive to the fullest. I guess you didn't get all these things but you got some, from somewhere, and you survived. Now your life is yours. Now you have rights. You have the right to know the truth and see it realistically.

It takes every member of a family to deny what's really going on. All have their reasons for not being truthful or fearless. It's not easy facing the truth.

You are not responsible for your family's dysfunction: you just happened to be caught in it, by chance, by being born. But you're in control now! (((((((((((((((((((GS))))))))))))))))))

[Gaining Strength]

That's some powerful truth your talking Portia. 

It is time for me to take responsibility for my life.  I find Voicelessness to be one of the most helpful tools for sorting out these dark places.  I am thankful to have heard others' stories and to have feedback to help me sort through and push forward while holding my hand. 

My whole life I have longed to have someone to talk with to help sort things out.  It is such a basic human need.  I am deeply, truly thankful for you and the others who take the time to respond to my endless jottings.  I does make a difference and it is helping me  and I hope so of my garble helps others as well.   - Yours - Gaining Strength

[Plucky]

Hi GS and Portia,
I am not sure I would blame Liz and them for not reacting in a different way to your dad.  If that is the first time they encountered this behaviour, I can see how they would not be prepared for it and just kind of go along wth the pressure he was exerting.  I am sure that at least some of them, including your friend, had regrets later and wondered what happened and why they did go along, and that your dad was very wrong.

For those of us who have dealt with Ns for years, we are just now figuring out ways, with each other's help, to to avoid getting caught up in the madness.  At least something really good came out of it - validation from your friend, and someone who now understands what you are dealing with.  That is priceless.

Plucky

[Gaining Strength]

Plucky

I don't blame Liz one iota.  I so fully understand.  I do think Portia is correct that it is the motivating factor in responding to my father is FEAR.  That and some of what Portia said about "family" are what I was referring to as "powerful truth".  I can see her points and I see that there are other perspectives on the same situation.

I would not characterize my friends response as, "content to blame".  She wasn't content about any aspect.  She was jarred and unclear about what had happened and really unclear as to why she had responded against her own instinct and comfort.  She was clearly confused and distressed. 

I do think that she "chose" to act as she did (corresponding with Portia's comment) but I don't think she knew why she did that, her actions came out of her unconscious and so I do not hold her "responsible."  I think she was afraid - but so would I have been.  Bullying engenders fear.  I agree with Portia that it takes courage to stand up to a bully and I think in some vague way that we are called to act in courage but that is simply not possible in every situation at all times. 

How's that for making muddle out of clarity?  I think I'm Gaining Strength but my identity is somewhat compromised after this bit of mumbo jumbo.

[Plucky]

No,
it's clear.  A very clear analysis.  Go ahead and keep getting stronger!
Plucky

[Portia]

GS

I think she was afraid - but so would I have been. 
Do you think you would have acted differently (to the group), given that you know what he is like? I think if we pre-consider these sorts of things, we can be less taken 'off guard' if it happens? Maybe?

Bullying engenders fear.  I agree with Portia that it takes courage to stand up to a bully and I think in some vague way that we are called to act in courage but that is simply not possible in every situation at all times. 

Agreed, not possible and not necessary either. We have to pick our battles, weigh up the possible consequences of action or inaction and go for whichever, but life will always be messy i think!

Liz sounds very human, sorry I used the 'content' to blame phrase. That was a glimpse of the persecutor P getting her pointy finger out again. Thanks for highlighting it, it's helpful.

[Certain Hope]

Dear Gaining Strength,

How's that for making muddle out of clarity?  I think I'm Gaining Strength but my identity is somewhat compromised after this bit of mumbo jumbo

Not at all. Your mind is seeing the bigger picture, receiving the good, and spitting out the sticks. That is fine form indeed and so healthy!

You inspire me, GS. I tend to choke on the sticks.

"See" you tommorrow 

Love,
Hope

[Gaining Strength]

Portia Guest' reply#16 and my answer #17 followed by Plucky's #18 stayed with me through the night and was heavy on my mind all morning.

Something happened in this dialogue that mirrored experiences in my life that are part of my trappedness.  I am on the verge of sorting it out.
During the night it emerged in a dream - I was with some friends in an apartment in NY.  There was a world famous rock star with us.  I left the group and went to a bathroom just off the kitchen where I was going to fix some food.  When I went into the small 1/2 bath and shut the door, (a sliding pocket door), I couldn't secure it.  Another rock star, in the same band was in the kitchen and pulled on the door calling me out, to dance.  I felt powerless to say no, powerless to secure the door and embarrassed because I couldn't dance. 

How does this dream relate to the dialogue in posts 16, 17, & 18?  Glad you asked.  I saw Portia's points.  I had a different perspective, I often do in life, but unconsciouly, I reacted to the strength or "power" of her argument and immediately sublimated my own view.  Then Plucky comes along and I realize that I agree with Plucky so I start to backtrack and am lost in my own muddle.  Lost until the confusion worked itself out for me. 

We cannot ever know what lies behind others' actions.  We may not fully know what controls our own.  I felt powerless and vulnerable in every move as a child.  When I grew up I did not become powerful or less vulnerable simply because I was now responsible for myself.  Unfortunately I am still powerless and vulnerable - that is part of my neurosis.  But I am working with great determination to grow and overcome the past.

Thanks Portia, Plucky and Certain Hope.  Thanks for helping me sort through this.

I have learned through this process that I can see where I should be.  For example, I should be in a place where I operate out of power rather than shame.  If I require of myself that I am no longer shamed, just be sheer determination then I have moved into powerfulness by denial not in any real terms.  And then I have to defend this position with walls of steel.  But it is not real power - it is false power build on a foundation of shame.  The only way for me to develop real power is to excavate the shame.  But society does not allow for an adult to deal with childish issues.  Society demands that adults function responsibly as adults - even if the necessary resources aren't there.  I am speaking of psychological resources but it could be others as well.  This is reminecent of debtors jail.  How do you repay your debt if you are in jail not working to earn money.  How can we take on psychological health if we have not had a nurturing, supportive enviroment to develop in?  I haven't been able to and I haven't had that environment until I found this place.  I feel bad about this.  I hate being at an infantile level psychologically.  But I understand that I must go through the entire process of becoming whole that was denied me in my FOO. 

When I hear "powerful truths" that are legitimate and reasonable views but that don't jive with my experience or my perspective I hope I will be able to hold my own understanding in the future.  I was absolutely not allowed to discent in my FOO.  I am finding myself revisiting the traps from my childhood, going back in time psychologically.  It's like a mind warp, a strange but therapeutic experience.  Thanks again you three for giving me the opportunity to travel this journey.

GS

[moonlight52]

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((GS))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

BEING WHERE EVER YOU ARE IS GOOD .

Taking the should out and being with the feelings you have and feeling each one is healing.
I like what Portia said about "scary" only being a feeling and feelings never hurt anyone. 

Kinda cool I know I will let myself feel whatever feelings I have come but yet understanding the behaviors of bully's can
 give you the power to handle that situation.

This is all a process and Portia's reply #16 was most helpful for me.GS this is a process and you also have power and choices.

Every day is new full of what ever you wish to fill it with.Blaming self is something I have done for years.
When I understood I was not responsible for my family's dysfunction and that they must have layer's of guilt OF THEIR own.
I removed their "ick" from me and now I can see what I am responsible for in my life.

I have taken many steps to make that right in my life.
But first I had to see I was taking on guilt and responsibility for what was not mine.
It takes as long as it takes .No pressure for healing there is no time thing connected with healing.

I just keep remembering one of the last things my mom said to me
moon only you can make your life good.
I understand now and it took years to understand this.
Also in #16 I can see blaming anyone for how I feel takes my power away my choices away.

MoonLight

[Gaining Strength]

Sweet moon - thank you for those hugs.

I am remembering how my brothers and I were not allowed to express our own opinions.  If something we said was not in line with his view we were met with a quiet, steel jawed rage and forced to recant.  This has actually never stopped.  Still today I will not offer a view that he will disagree with.  The cost is far too great.

I have paid a huge price in my life for having to hide my point of view, my self expression.  In college I often heard, "Be yourself."  and had absolutely no idea what that could possibly mean.  Now I know why.  "Being myself" had been emotionally beaten out of me. 

When I was 30 and going through a divorce, I recall realizing that while eating dinner my hands were gripped in fists and my right leg was wrapped twice aroung my left in great tension.  Immediately I was transported back to my childhood dinner table where the tension and fear were unbearable.  Every night, the same thing - my father would ask, "What did you do today."  and my panic would begin because whatever I focused on his answer would be, "That's not the answer I'm looking for." And I would try again.  Each time he would respond angrier and angrier, "That's not good enough." or "That's not what I want to hear."  I would expect some sort of punishment would follow. Sometimes it did, sometimes it didn't.  Either way I was so thankful when it was time to go upstairs to my room, alone. (Alone, isolation - that was safety.) The tension and the fear were established early on.  There was no way possible to meet any of his expectations.  The expectations were never clearly expressed.  But my father was held with esteem in the community. That, and his narcissistic self-importance, established in me a sense of him as all knowing and perfect. Consewuaently, if something were out of kilter it would not be due to him but clearly the problem had to be me.  So I never saw the treatment I received as misguided or abusive.  Even today, neither of my brothers would call our experiences abuse  and they would both deny my description as well as my memories.  Their denial kept me stuck for many years.

All of this is coming up now because all of this is what has led to this paralysis.  The more that comes up and the more that is validated the further along in this healing I will progress.  I do feel that I have written more than my share and I am uncomfortable about it, but I also see that at long last I am able to pour out what has been stuffed for so long.  And I am thankful for this place. 

I find solace here.  The mechanism of an internet forum is very therapeutic.  I can "dump" without dumping on an individual.  Anyone in a position to help can offer help, others who are not interested or feel burdened can find the threads that feed them.  I am thankful to be able to "dump" without burdening.  In the real world dumping has burnt out friendships - I understand.  That's why I am uncomfortable about writing so much.

During the worst periods of clinical depression, I would wake every day and test my being to see how heavy the burden was.  I could "feel" the depression.  It was a physical weight.  If it was light enough to get out of bed I was very, very thankful.  Even as it lifted, I could be driving down the street and suddenly out of nowhere be hit by that wretched depression again.  When that happened I had to repeat a positive phrase over and over and over again until I could manage again.  I suspect this is familiar to people who have panic attacks.  Today I do that with shame.  Each morning I have to first see how heavy the shame is before I get out of bed.  Then all day, every day I have to fight shame.  I fight the physiological feelings of shame - the gripping tension in my back and neck, the queasy, nauseous feeling. 

So while I think I understand what Moonlight and Portia mean about "feelings never hurt anyone."  That is not true for me.  In recent years, I learned that I could and how to stop a negative feeling before it took over me.  I have to fight it with all my might.  Negative feelings do hurt me.  They effect my brain and I have to fight them.  I have to fight for my brain's health and my psychological health.  I do believe that feelings can be false.  I learned that in one of my favorite books, "The Mind & The Brain" by Jeffrey Schwartz, M.D.  When I recognize these dark feelings, I call them false and then immediately replace them with something positive. 

Well thanks for listening.  I have been spending so much time here lately because it is a sanctuary for me.  A sanctuary where I am safe to expose my most vulnerable self while I change the bandages.  As I have opened up some of my wounds I am finding infections that must be treated.  I am glad to have found good medicine here to help me mend. - Yours, Gaining Strength

[moonlight52]

GS ,

Feelings can hurt .
When my twin brother passed away at 27 and I said goodbye to him It hurt a great deal.Grief from sudden passing hurts.
But they were my feelings .I do not blame others now for my feelings .My feelings are created within myself by me.
Also in my FOO I was listened to by my mom she had a great and good positive influence on me that influence greatly helped to counter the negative stuff I encountered.
And knowing that makes healing easier for me.Just an opinion .

I am hoping the heaviness or the burden of pain is less for you
and though the process every day it becomes lighter and lighter.

Much love to you

moon

[Gaining Strength]

I am hoping the heaviness or the burden of pain is less for you
and though the process every day it becomes lighter and lighter.

Sweet Moon - thank you as always.  Your optomism is so refreshing.

your friend - Gaining Strength

[Plucky]

That's why I am uncomfortable about writing so much.

Hello GS,
please don't stop writing.  Some people have a hard time writing about themselves, and they (ok, I) get help by reading a similar experience or thought or feeling and realising that they feel the same.  By writing, however prolifically you want to, you are helping others and, I hope, yourself.

We also enjoy getting to know you and seeing you evolve.
Plucky

[teartracks]

Gaining Strength,

I  L O V E  your writing.  I  L O V E   your wisdom.  I L O V E   your understanding ways.  I    L O V E    it that you are overcoming.  Please don't stop.  I know each of us waxes and wains in our jparticipation, but each one is so important.  You are very much appreciated.

teartracks

[Certain Hope]

Dear Gaining Strength,

You wrote:  Portia Guest' reply#16 and my answer #17 followed by Plucky's #18 stayed with me through the night and was heavy on my mind all morning.

Something happened in this dialogue that mirrored experiences in my life that are part of my trappedness.

And mine, as well. Right now, in fact... I do understand what you're describing and I've been in that position, not even knowing what was happening or why it felt so wrong, why I felt so out of sync and ...repressed. I could not express it as you have here and I don't know whether I can even now. I only know that my heart sank as I read through this, my spirit cried out, and I had a sensation of being driven off the main highway onto a rutted sidetrack, unable to hang onto the wheel and maintain a straight course. But still, the only words which came to my mind were: There is a way which seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death.

GS, I do not believe that we can "will" ourselves to shame-free health. I believe that true healing is a gift, like forgiveness, which we may only receive with open, empty hands. This is the basis of my own determination to empty my hands of anything which would fill them with useless, vain nothing-ness. I do believe in sanctuary, but we make a place safe for ourselves with fortifications; necessary safeguards, because not all of the infection is internal. You are sweeping your inner house clean and goodness  & light aren't the only forces seeking to fill the vacuum. You have made a giant leap here, imo, GS... you have chosen to trust yourself and your "instincts", the leading of the Spirit, whatever you choose to call it. The way I read you, you've taken a stand... in humility and strength, which is true meekness. It's a beautiful thing. I hope that you will write on!

Love,
Hope